#46 President Joe Biden

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

I have not been a fan and am not a fan of this loan forgiveness.  I think the part that makes the most sense to me is the doubling for Pell Grant recipients.  Seems to target those in need far more.  There are so many moving parts to this I get that it's a complex issue.  My concerns with this:

1) It does nothing to effect the cost of college moving forward.  If that's the root cause, then that should be addressed. Work to make community college and trade schools free (or close to it).  Same for 4 year colleges for specific targeted degrees.
2) I do have a hard time with people taking on debt and then not paying it back.  I heard one lady they were using as an example on MSNBC of why it was needed.  She was in her 40's and still paying off debt.  She went to school for 3 years, got pregnant and married then had a 2nd kid.  She said she needed "Relief" (which is just a handout) because she had meant to get a degree but "Life happened" to her.  It did not happen to her, she made choice after choice.  She ultimately decided she wanted to be a mom and stay home.  So - you certainly could look at other programs ---- what is in place to help college kids that have kids get back into the classroom (childcare, etc) quickly, etc.  But just forgiving loans isn't really the answer in my mind.  I think this sends a terrible message.

I've wavered on this topic some over time, but keep ending back at the same place.  I wonder how the non-college educated blue collar mother or farther that worked hard, saved $ and helped pay for their kids to go to college and leave without debt feel about this?  Or those that skipped college due to the cost to go work for lower pay throughout their careers feel about this?

So I am certainly not a fan.  

I get that...but people make bad decisions. I'm always amazed at how some lower income people are very responsible with money and others aren't. 

I remember one of my daughter's roommates at college was having an issue coming up with her part of their rent deposit because her student loan had not come through yet. I can't imagine advising my child that it would be a good idea to pull out $20-25K in loans each year in order to fund their college experience.

The federal loans are limited to around $7K/year which makes sense to me. That basically covers most tuition at a state school. 

Graduating with a $28K loan isn't bad.....$80-100K is awful.

And my understanding is that this forgiveness is related to federal loans only....not private student loans.

bootlegger10

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

dankind

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

The Juggler

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

I know right? Easy for someone with more than twice the amount of lived experience to say too....

OnWis97

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

That certainly matches my philosophy. That said, I bristle a little at telling people "do this" in no small part because I'd love to have a nickel for every time I see "go to community college for the first two years." Uh, that's not what I wanted to do and I would not have thrived under that model. It's a good option for some but ultimately, people need to do what's right for them. 

That said, if someone was asking me for advice I might challenge them on what the costlier private (or out-of-state) option is going to do for them in and balance that against the higher number of loans. Similar balance for the community college option...for me the extra was worth it, but for some maybe not.

What I really think is that kids need to understand their options; college, community college, tech/trade school, military, etc. When I was in high school, the assumption was "college" (at least in my school/family). Other options were kind of stigmatized. I don't think I understood the other options (thankfully, college was the right path for me but I definitely saw people figure out a year or two in that it wasn't the right path for them and wondered whether they kinda had the four-year degree over-emphasized at the expense of other options.

Gern Blansten

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

agreed...so stupid

Lerxst1992

One angle I haven’t seen is that this is Biden unilaterally doing an end run around congress, which perfectly feeds into the socialism narrative in a huge way.

The politically savvy thing would have been to simply cap repayments at 5% of income and perhaps $20k of relief for ONLY Pell recipients. And defer interest again. Would have accomplished nearly the same objective without the toxic political fallout.

That extra ten k of debt relief for all students may cost Dems congress this year and bring back trump in two. This will not play well in swing states/districts. Dumb politics yet again from Team D

Merkin Baller

I've lost count of how many times Biden has handed 2024 to trump.

Ledbetterman10

Lerxst1992 said:

One angle I haven’t seen is that this is Biden unilaterally doing an end run around congress, which perfectly feeds into the socialism narrative in a huge way.

That angle's being used. This clip of Pelosi noting that Biden doesn't have the power to forgive debt has resurfaced since he announced it. She said it has to be an act of congress...

https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1562435162683518977?s=20&t=f8XLZzDtUK-W0OVgiXnGIQ

cincybearcat

The Juggler said:

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

I know right? Easy for someone with more than twice the amount of lived experience to say too....

I think you are selling kids way short.  I know plenty of 18 year old that are just starting college this year...each took $ into consideration.

The Juggler

cincybearcat said:

The Juggler said:

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

I know right? Easy for someone with more than twice the amount of lived experience to say too....

I think you are selling kids way short.  I know plenty of 18 year old that are just starting college this year...each took $ into consideration.

I am sure there are plenty who took it into consideration. I am also sure there are plenty who did not. As dankind mentioned, it's a product of upbringing. My parents really didn't tell me anything about that stuff. I ended up with a lot of debt but, luckily, paid it all off. The debt I had was a fraction of what it would be in today's world though. 

Also, it really should be mandatory to have some kind of financial training in high school. 

bootlegger10

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

I heard my cousin tell me something similar.  Kept reminding her kid that if she stays on campus instead of at home (20 minutes away) it is going to cost X more dollars.  After realizing a few years later that X dollars was a lot of money, the kid asked her mom why she didn't warn her.   

Sorry if my post came off as an attack or demeaning. Wasn't the intention.  Plenty of reasons why you can be enticed by smaller schools and why someone would want to pay more to go there. 

cincybearcat

The Juggler said:

cincybearcat said:

The Juggler said:

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

I know right? Easy for someone with more than twice the amount of lived experience to say too....

I think you are selling kids way short.  I know plenty of 18 year old that are just starting college this year...each took $ into consideration.

I am sure there are plenty who took it into consideration. I am also sure there are plenty who did not. As dankind mentioned, it's a product of upbringing. My parents really didn't tell me anything about that stuff. I ended up with a lot of debt but, luckily, paid it all off. The debt I had was a fraction of what it would be in today's world though. 

Also, it really should be mandatory to have some kind of financial training in high school. 

Agree with that.  My daughter is a Soph in high school and taking a financial literacy course this semester. 

dankind

The Juggler said:

cincybearcat said:

The Juggler said:

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

I know right? Easy for someone with more than twice the amount of lived experience to say too....

I think you are selling kids way short.  I know plenty of 18 year old that are just starting college this year...each took $ into consideration.

I am sure there are plenty who took it into consideration. I am also sure there are plenty who did not. As dankind mentioned, it's a product of upbringing. 

Also, it really should be mandatory to have some kind of financial training in high school. 

Yeah. I haven’t seen the stats, but feeling somewhat exemplary today, I would guess that the bulk of the nation’s greater college debt burdens are likely held by first-generation college graduates. And if you look deeper at most of us and our undereducated families, I think you’ll find that fiscal responsibility took a backseat to basic survival during our upbringing. 

Except for my student loan—actually, probably BECAUSE OF my student loan debt and the crushing and persistent depression it wrought (honestly, I’m getting PTSD just writing about it today)—I’ve been meticulously responsible about all my other personal finances. 

To a fault. I eschewed marriage and family until I felt fiscally “worthy.” And I’m too old for this shit.

bootlegger10

Financial literacy should be something that is required teaching in high schools.  Odd that it isn’t (or wasn’t in my time).  Much more value from that subject than a lot of other classes we were forced to take.  

Gern Blansten

bootlegger10 said:

Financial literacy should be something that is required teaching in high schools.  Odd that it isn’t (or wasn’t in my time).  Much more value from that subject than a lot of other classes we were forced to take.  

agreed...including basic income tax

DewieCox

Everyone I’ve personally heard bitch about it, whined for the entirety of their young adulthood, never finished their degree and/or negotiated their loan down to a fraction of what they owed.

mrussel1

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

I'm not sure this matters.  I'm in the thick of college age kids,  and I see upper middle class families, who should know better,  sending their kids to either private or out of state public schools.  It's bewildering.  Here in Virginia,  we have fantastic public universities and I see kids I know going to friggin Georgia,  NC state,  etc.  Makes no sense.  

HughFreakingDillon

Isn't "sending your kid to college" almost like a cultural thing in the US? It would seem to me that a lot of people feel social pressure to pay for their kids to go to college out of state (or for kids to get loans to do so). 

yes, that's irresponsible, but doesn't that exist?

Gern Blansten

mrussel1 said:

dankind said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t think anyone should take out loans to go to a private school. Makes no sense to me.  Go to a state school. 

Cool. Now explain this to an 18-year-old who didn't have great examples of fiscal responsibility during their upbringing. 

I'm not sure this matters.  I'm in the thick of college age kids,  and I see upper middle class families, who should know better,  sending their kids to either private or out of state public schools.  It's bewildering.  Here in Virginia,  we have fantastic public universities and I see kids I know going to friggin Georgia,  NC state,  etc.  Makes no sense.  

Same here in Central IN. We've got IU, Purdue, Ball State, IUPUI, Indiana State....insane to go out of state and pay twice as much in tuition.

It's like the middle income people blowing $30K on a wedding