Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.
Simple Republican free market dynamics.
EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more
gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it.
There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before.
where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels? I want.
Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there
people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that. If you are buying a new car which millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.
affordable relative to buying a new car.
You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales
The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one. They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap
Yeah I haven't ever paid more than $10,000 for a car and have certainly never bought new or anything close to 50k. Somewhat due to finances, but also because anything more is just crazy money that I couldn't justify parting with for anything other than a house. So that rules me out.
Also being a renter makes it hard for most working class people I'm sure. If your landlord doesn't agree to install a charging port you are SOL unless there is a charging station nearby, especially if you live in an apartment and can't run an extension cord out for a trickle charge off of 120v.
If the argument is there are plenty of affordable EVs for well to do people willing to spend 50K+ on a car then I hear you. But, "don't like gas prices don't use gas" is really a way of life that is only affordable to a small amount of people.
Fair enough. If we are only talking about the millions of people who go to a new car lot every year then that’s a better context. Over time that number grows by millions of people yearly. Over the course of 10 years imagine the number of new cars Americans buy.
that’s what I’m talking about.
The amount of new pick up trucks I’ve seen lately in the middle of Houston got me thinking. Those are the people I’m thinking about. If you don’t need it, you are spending that much anyway, you don’t live in the middle of nowhere then why not?
Americans spend a lot of money on really questionable stuff which isn’t as value add. I’m sure you can get a decent vehicle for 10-15k. When people aren’t and are spending a lot more on something they don’t need they could spend the same on something else instead that is more value add
I can’t imagine buying a 70k Ford king ranch then paying 500 a month to fill it with gas. I’d find an alternative. I wouldn’t spend 70k on a vehicle anyway
the cost curve goes down and EV’s are less and less every year. They will penetrate the base model compact car market at some point
and for that truck buyer, there are ev models out now.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.
Simple Republican free market dynamics.
EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more
gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it.
There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before.
where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels? I want.
Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there
people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that. If you are buying a new car which millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.
affordable relative to buying a new car.
You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales
The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one. They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap
Yeah I haven't ever paid more than $10,000 for a car and have certainly never bought new or anything close to 50k. Somewhat due to finances, but also because anything more is just crazy money that I couldn't justify parting with for anything other than a house. So that rules me out.
Also being a renter makes it hard for most working class people I'm sure. If your landlord doesn't agree to install a charging port you are SOL unless there is a charging station nearby, especially if you live in an apartment and can't run an extension cord out for a trickle charge off of 120v.
If the argument is there are plenty of affordable EVs for well to do people willing to spend 50K+ on a car then I hear you. But, "don't like gas prices don't use gas" is really a way of life that is only affordable to a small amount of people.
Fair enough. If we are only talking about the millions of people who go to a new car lot every year then that’s a better context. Over time that number grows by millions of people yearly. Over the course of 10 years imagine the number of new cars Americans buy.
that’s what I’m talking about.
The amount of new pick up trucks I’ve seen lately in the middle of Houston got me thinking. Those are the people I’m thinking about. If you don’t need it, you are spending that much anyway, you don’t live in the middle of nowhere then why not?
Americans spend a lot of money on really questionable stuff which isn’t as value add. I’m sure you can get a decent vehicle for 10-15k. When people aren’t and are spending a lot more on something they don’t need they could spend the same on something else instead that is more value add
I can’t imagine buying a 70k Ford king ranch then paying 500 a month to fill it with gas. I’d find an alternative. I wouldn’t spend 70k on a vehicle anyway
the cost curve goes down and EV’s are less and less every year. They will penetrate the base model compact car market at some point
Believe me I would love an affordable EV with long range capabilities. Financially I will be a late adopter!
Fuel efficiency standards were gutted under Trump
part of my frustration is people blaming Biden for gas prices which he can’t control but ignoring fuel efficiency standards which Trump could control.
If you are putting people in cars they can’t afford to fill up whose fault is that really?
yeah, but there are higher mileage vehicles available. that part is a consumer choice. reward those companies or go rah rah.....
there absolutely are.
you can get a Prius, you can get an EV you can get a geo metro (if they still make those)
There are options. People want a Ford Expedition type vehicles though. Bumping up the efficiency on what people want to buy is helpful.
Most of these vehicles are expensive to fill up period. It’s just more expensive now. It absolutely wasn’t a fuel cost conscious purchase to begin with. You still probably paid 80 bucks to fill it pre covid
what’s getting lost here is gas expenses people are paying that are over and above what they reasonably should be paying. They blame prices at the pump not the vehicle they chose. You can control what you drive. I don’t understand why that isn’t the starting point of addressing any of this before anything else
Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.
Simple Republican free market dynamics.
EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more
gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it.
There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before.
Driving isn’t the worst of it. Heating oil with winter upcoming, brutal. Contract ceilings are running $5.80 per gallon, ouch.
Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.
Simple Republican free market dynamics.
EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more
gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it.
There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before.
Driving isn’t the worst of it. Heating oil with winter upcoming, brutal. Contract ceilings are running $5.80 per gallon, ouch.
I feel for you guys in the NE.
I didn’t even know what heating oil was until I went there in winter. That’s a great point though. That gets forgotten about
I refuse to heat my house in the winter as it only gets down to about 60 inside which I quite enjoy. But it’s not heating oil anyway
Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,764
Biden and DeSantis join together in Ian recovery effort
By JOSH BOAK and SEUNG MIN KIM
1 hour ago
FORT MYERS, Florida (AP) — President Joe Biden surveyed the devastation of hurricane-ravaged Florida on Wednesday, promising to marshal the power of the federal government to help rebuild as he comforted local residents alongside Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, a potential 2024 foe.
Biden praised DeSantis' handling of the storm recovery as both men — who have battled over pandemic protocols and migration as the governor mulls a presidential bid — put aside politics for a few days. The state is struggling to recover from the wreckage of Hurricane Ian, which tore through southwestern Florida last week and left dozens dead.
“Today we have one job and only one job, and that’s to make sure the people in Florida get everything they need to fully, thoroughly recover,” Biden said in a community that bore the brunt of Ian's assault. He warned that the rebuilding effort will take months or years.
“It’s going to take a hell of a long time, hopefully without any snags in the way," he said as DeSantis stood behind him, hands folded as he squinted into the glaring sunlight. “Later, after the television cameras have moved on, we’re still going to be here with you.”
The days after Ian's landfall in Florida have prompted a temporary détente between Biden and DeSantis, who had spoken on the phone at least three times to coordinate recovery efforts. They spent part of Wednesday meeting with area residents and, for Biden, absorbing the full scope of Ian's devastation.
After Biden and first lady Jill Biden arrived earlier at Fisherman's Wharf — where homes and businesses lay in ruins amid debris and muck — DeSantis offered his hand to the president for a shake. Next to them as they spoke was a boat that the storm had lifted into a cafe
The solidarity, however fleeting, continued Wednesday afternoon when DeSantis formally welcomed Biden to his state and praised the collaboration with officials on the ground and the federal government in Washington.
“We are cutting through the red tape and that’s from local government, state government, all the way up to the president. We appreciate the team effort,” DeSantis said.
Biden said DeSantis had done a “good job” when asked by reporters to assess the governor's handling of the recovery efforts.
“We have very different political philosophies ... but we worked hand in glove,” Biden said. "On things related to dealing with this crisis, we’ve been completely lockstep. There’s been no difference.”
The breadth of the devastation that Biden witnessed was immense. The presidential motorcade drove by wind-shorn trees, some uprooted, others with branches pulled backwards by the storm. Fields off the highway were still flooded, forming stagnant lagoons.
Signs for stores and restaurants were blown out; ruined mattresses were piled in neighborhood streets, a building was tipped to the side like a chess piece. An armada of workers and repair trucks struggled with recovery.
Hurricane Ian has resulted in at least 84 people confirmed dead, including 75 in Florida, and many people still wait for power to be restored. Ian’s 150 mph winds and punishing storm surge last week took out power for 2.6 million in Florida. Many people still are unable to get food and water, although DeSantis said power has been restored to more than 97% of the state.
With the midterm elections just a month away, the crisis was bringing together political rivals in common cause at least for a time.
Biden and DeSantis have had a multitude of differences in recent years over how to fight COVID-19, immigration policy and more. In recent weeks, they tussled over the governor’s decision to put migrants on planes or buses to Democratic strongholds, a practice that Biden has called “reckless.”
Along with DeSantis, Sen. Rick Scott has also been one of Biden's most prominent Republican critics. He, Republican Sen. Marco Rubio and other state and local officials joined the president and governor. Rubio, like DeSantis, is up for reelection in November.
Jeff Rioux, a general contractor in Fort Myers and a registered Republican, said as he mopped up floors and tore out soaked drywall from his flooded house that he welcomed Biden’s visit.
“The world does need to see what happened here. It’s going get some help down here,” Rioux said of the national attention. “At some point you’ve got to put politics aside. People are hurting down here. It’s not right or left, it’s America at the end of the day.”
Biden resorted to profanity at one point, but only in an apparently jocular comment picked up by a microphone and causing much comment on social media.
As Fort Myers Beach Mayor Ray Murphy thanked Biden for coming, the president said at one point in the brief conversation, "No one f—— with a Biden,” and appeared to offer the mayor some advice.
“That’s exactly right, that’s exactly right,” Murphy said, laughing. “All right, good to see you.”
Before the storm hit, the president had intended to visit the Florida cities of Orlando and Fort Lauderdale to stress his efforts to strengthen Social Security and Medicaid. Biden has accused Scott of wanting to end both programs by proposing that federal laws should expire every five years, although the Florida senator has said he wants to preserve the programs.
The hurricane changed the purpose and tone of Biden's first trip to Florida this year, which was in an area devastated by winds and surging water. Boats, including huge yachts, were capsized and hurled inland.
FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell told reporters on Air Force One that the cost of rebuilding will be significant: “It will certainly be in the billions and perhaps one of the more costly disasters that we’ve seen in many years.”
The White House message of bipartisan unity in a time of crisis marked a difference from Biden's predecessor, Donald Trump, who at times threatened to withhold aid from the states of Democrats who criticized him, including Govs. Gavin Newsom of California and Andrew Cuomo of New York.
___
Kim reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Bobby Caina Calvan and Curt Anderson in Fort Myers, Zeke Miller in Washington and Brendan Farrington in Tallahassee, Florida, contributed.
___
For more AP coverage of Hurricane Ian: apnews.com/hub/hurricanes
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Biden and DeSantis join together in Ian recovery effort
By JOSH BOAK and SEUNG MIN KIM
1 hour ago
FORT MYERS, Florida (AP) — President Joe Biden surveyed the devastation of hurricane-ravaged Florida on Wednesday, promising to marshal the power of the federal government to help rebuild as he comforted local residents alongside Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, a potential 2024 foe.
Biden praised DeSantis' handling of the storm recovery as both men — who have battled over pandemic protocols and migration as the governor mulls a presidential bid — put aside politics for a few days. The state is struggling to recover from the wreckage of Hurricane Ian, which tore through southwestern Florida last week and left dozens dead.
“Today we have one job and only one job, and that’s to make sure the people in Florida get everything they need to fully, thoroughly recover,” Biden said in a community that bore the brunt of Ian's assault. He warned that the rebuilding effort will take months or years.
“It’s going to take a hell of a long time, hopefully without any snags in the way," he said as DeSantis stood behind him, hands folded as he squinted into the glaring sunlight. “Later, after the television cameras have moved on, we’re still going to be here with you.”
The days after Ian's landfall in Florida have prompted a temporary détente between Biden and DeSantis, who had spoken on the phone at least three times to coordinate recovery efforts. They spent part of Wednesday meeting with area residents and, for Biden, absorbing the full scope of Ian's devastation.
After Biden and first lady Jill Biden arrived earlier at Fisherman's Wharf — where homes and businesses lay in ruins amid debris and muck — DeSantis offered his hand to the president for a shake. Next to them as they spoke was a boat that the storm had lifted into a cafe
The solidarity, however fleeting, continued Wednesday afternoon when DeSantis formally welcomed Biden to his state and praised the collaboration with officials on the ground and the federal government in Washington.
“We are cutting through the red tape and that’s from local government, state government, all the way up to the president. We appreciate the team effort,” DeSantis said.
Biden said DeSantis had done a “good job” when asked by reporters to assess the governor's handling of the recovery efforts.
“We have very different political philosophies ... but we worked hand in glove,” Biden said. "On things related to dealing with this crisis, we’ve been completely lockstep. There’s been no difference.”
The breadth of the devastation that Biden witnessed was immense. The presidential motorcade drove by wind-shorn trees, some uprooted, others with branches pulled backwards by the storm. Fields off the highway were still flooded, forming stagnant lagoons.
Signs for stores and restaurants were blown out; ruined mattresses were piled in neighborhood streets, a building was tipped to the side like a chess piece. An armada of workers and repair trucks struggled with recovery.
Hurricane Ian has resulted in at least 84 people confirmed dead, including 75 in Florida, and many people still wait for power to be restored. Ian’s 150 mph winds and punishing storm surge last week took out power for 2.6 million in Florida. Many people still are unable to get food and water, although DeSantis said power has been restored to more than 97% of the state.
With the midterm elections just a month away, the crisis was bringing together political rivals in common cause at least for a time.
Biden and DeSantis have had a multitude of differences in recent years over how to fight COVID-19, immigration policy and more. In recent weeks, they tussled over the governor’s decision to put migrants on planes or buses to Democratic strongholds, a practice that Biden has called “reckless.”
Along with DeSantis, Sen. Rick Scott has also been one of Biden's most prominent Republican critics. He, Republican Sen. Marco Rubio and other state and local officials joined the president and governor. Rubio, like DeSantis, is up for reelection in November.
Jeff Rioux, a general contractor in Fort Myers and a registered Republican, said as he mopped up floors and tore out soaked drywall from his flooded house that he welcomed Biden’s visit.
“The world does need to see what happened here. It’s going get some help down here,” Rioux said of the national attention. “At some point you’ve got to put politics aside. People are hurting down here. It’s not right or left, it’s America at the end of the day.”
Biden resorted to profanity at one point, but only in an apparently jocular comment picked up by a microphone and causing much comment on social media.
As Fort Myers Beach Mayor Ray Murphy thanked Biden for coming, the president said at one point in the brief conversation, "No one f—— with a Biden,” and appeared to offer the mayor some advice.
“That’s exactly right, that’s exactly right,” Murphy said, laughing. “All right, good to see you.”
Before the storm hit, the president had intended to visit the Florida cities of Orlando and Fort Lauderdale to stress his efforts to strengthen Social Security and Medicaid. Biden has accused Scott of wanting to end both programs by proposing that federal laws should expire every five years, although the Florida senator has said he wants to preserve the programs.
The hurricane changed the purpose and tone of Biden's first trip to Florida this year, which was in an area devastated by winds and surging water. Boats, including huge yachts, were capsized and hurled inland.
FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell told reporters on Air Force One that the cost of rebuilding will be significant: “It will certainly be in the billions and perhaps one of the more costly disasters that we’ve seen in many years.”
The White House message of bipartisan unity in a time of crisis marked a difference from Biden's predecessor, Donald Trump, who at times threatened to withhold aid from the states of Democrats who criticized him, including Govs. Gavin Newsom of California and Andrew Cuomo of New York.
___
Kim reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Bobby Caina Calvan and Curt Anderson in Fort Myers, Zeke Miller in Washington and Brendan Farrington in Tallahassee, Florida, contributed.
___
For more AP coverage of Hurricane Ian: apnews.com/hub/hurricanes
The comity will last about three or four days. Should have heard the Ragin’ Cajun last night.
Sounds like this is just to accommodate the growing trend of EVs, not enough to provide a charge if everyone switched to one. They are building “dozens” of charging stations to service 1,000,000 electric cars. And it’s going to take until 2030 I think it said. There are 8,000,000 registered cars in TX. How much longer and more expensive will it be to service all of those? And how much bigger is California? Im not saying building the infrastructure is bad. I’m saying expecting it to be at a point to where you can ban gas cars in the largest state and have it be practical for everyone in 12 years is unrealistic.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,764
Sounds like this is just to accommodate the growing trend of EVs, not enough to provide a charge if everyone switched to one. They are building “dozens” of charging stations to service 1,000,000 electric cars. And it’s going to take until 2030 I think it said. There are 8,000,000 registered cars in TX. How much longer and more expensive will it be to service all of those? And how much bigger is California? Im not saying building the infrastructure is bad. I’m saying expecting it to be at a point to where you can ban gas cars in the largest state and have it be practical for everyone in 12 years is unrealistic.
this is a 5 yr plan. to start. talking about every 30 or so miles to have stations.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Banning gas cars and requiring all new cars to be electric isn’t the same thing.
Seems like all the examples being raised of how an EV isn’t affordable is based on a several year old used car. That would mean a 10 year plan gives you at least 25 years when you can have a functional used gas operated vehicle to drive if you keep buying used
lets at least not be misleading. You aren’t waking up on Jan 1, 2035 to find all 15 million cars in california being electric
if you aren’t buying new cars anyway what’s the problem? You’ll be probably 70 years old by the time you’ll have to buy one because all the used gas cars will be at least 15 years old. Plus you can always buy one in another state as they all won’t follow suit.
Pressuring auto makers was probably the bigger play here. It’s obviously intended to get these exact conversations started and planning to occur and logistics to be sorted. Great job California. Seriously
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
All these what ifs and it’s impossible are kind of silly considering we will run out of oil that’s a fact. Then what? We are really screwed if it’s impossible
If we ran out of oil tomorrow, no way it takes even 3 years. We can do it. We choose not to or to not do it quickly.
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
Sounds like this is just to accommodate the growing trend of EVs, not enough to provide a charge if everyone switched to one. They are building “dozens” of charging stations to service 1,000,000 electric cars. And it’s going to take until 2030 I think it said. There are 8,000,000 registered cars in TX. How much longer and more expensive will it be to service all of those? And how much bigger is California? Im not saying building the infrastructure is bad. I’m saying expecting it to be at a point to where you can ban gas cars in the largest state and have it be practical for everyone in 12 years is unrealistic.
this is a 5 yr plan. to start. talking about every 30 or so miles to have stations.
how much bigger is California? by what metric?
Population of CA is roughly 40% larger than TX. So it’s going to take a lot more to service those. Its not a station every 30 miles, so can be as far as 70. You can’t just have 1 station to service all the cars. A 5 minute wait at a gas station would equal 2 or 3 hours at a charging station. Im not against building all of this. I’m just saying this CA law is premature. Infrastructure isn’t there, it likely won’t be in 10 years. Even if it is, is the production of new EVs going to be there? Right now they make up 1% of cars and can have wait times to buy.
Building all this is great. Just seems premature to require 100% in 12 years. Destine for failure or major problems. Everyone will be buying their cars out of state.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,272
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
All these what ifs and it’s impossible are kind of silly considering we will run out of oil that’s a fact. Then what? We are really screwed if it’s impossible
If we ran out of oil tomorrow, no way it takes even 3 years. We can do it. We choose not to or to not do it quickly.
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
All these what ifs and it’s impossible are kind of silly considering we will run out of oil that’s a fact. Then what? We are really screwed if it’s impossible
If we ran out of oil tomorrow, no way it takes even 3 years. We can do it. We choose not to or to not do it quickly.
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
doing nothing isn’t really acceptable
Nope. Nothing's going to work so don't bother trying.
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
All these what ifs and it’s impossible are kind of silly considering we will run out of oil that’s a fact. Then what? We are really screwed if it’s impossible
If we ran out of oil tomorrow, no way it takes even 3 years. We can do it. We choose not to or to not do it quickly.
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
doing nothing isn’t really acceptable
Nope. Nothing's going to work so don't bother trying.
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
All these what ifs and it’s impossible are kind of silly considering we will run out of oil that’s a fact. Then what? We are really screwed if it’s impossible
If we ran out of oil tomorrow, no way it takes even 3 years. We can do it. We choose not to or to not do it quickly.
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
doing nothing isn’t really acceptable
Nope. Nothing's going to work so don't bother trying.
That's the new American Way!
Remember when we wouldn’t be able to function without incandescent light bulbs? That started in the bush years
and here we are. It’s a light bulb and the Energy Independence and Security Act passed in 2007. It’s taking until 2023 to complete the phase out. What’s wrong with us? We make simple tasks unnecessarily difficult.
I can have every single light on in my house and use less electricity than one 150w incandescent bulb
If that’s our standard of what the American public can accomplish, let’s just admit we are destined for failure in everything
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
All these what ifs and it’s impossible are kind of silly considering we will run out of oil that’s a fact. Then what? We are really screwed if it’s impossible
If we ran out of oil tomorrow, no way it takes even 3 years. We can do it. We choose not to or to not do it quickly.
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
doing nothing isn’t really acceptable
Nope. Nothing's going to work so don't bother trying.
No one said that. Just saying lets get the infrastructure first before we make laws requiring it.
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
All these what ifs and it’s impossible are kind of silly considering we will run out of oil that’s a fact. Then what? We are really screwed if it’s impossible
If we ran out of oil tomorrow, no way it takes even 3 years. We can do it. We choose not to or to not do it quickly.
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
doing nothing isn’t really acceptable
Nope. Nothing's going to work so don't bother trying.
No one said that. Just saying let’s get the infrastructure first before we make laws requiring it.
They aren’t requiring it. You don’t have to own an electric vehicle
all new car sales only. Not used, not new cars bought elsewhere
if you aren’t buying a brand new car (current average sticker price for all new purchases regardless of engine is 50k) it doesn’t affect you one bit. You are still free to buy whatever used car you wish.
If you are going to drop 50k on something new at your local dealership, it has to be electric … in 10 years
It’s literally the definition of a phase in / phase out approach, it’s not a hard stop on gasoline. Gas engines even in the most aggressive situation will still be lingering for decades perfectly legally
The NY State Thruway is on a 5 year $450 million plan to renovate all of its 24 hour rest stops along its 570 miles. Guess what that includes? Yup, rapid charging stations. Hook up your car, swipe your credit card or Apple Pay, go get a meal for 45 minutes to an hour and off you go.
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
All these what ifs and it’s impossible are kind of silly considering we will run out of oil that’s a fact. Then what? We are really screwed if it’s impossible
If we ran out of oil tomorrow, no way it takes even 3 years. We can do it. We choose not to or to not do it quickly.
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
doing nothing isn’t really acceptable
Nope. Nothing's going to work so don't bother trying.
No one said that. Just saying let’s get the infrastructure first before we make laws requiring it.
They aren’t requiring it.
all new car sales only. Not used, not new cars bought elsewhere
if you aren’t buying a brand new car (current average sticker price for all new purchases regardless of engine is 50k) it doesn’t affect you one bit. You are still free to buy whatever used car you wish.
If you are going to drop 50k on something new at your local dealership, it has to be electric … in 10 years
This.
JFC, it's not like these requirements are going into effect this year.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,272
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
you can get a Prius, you can get an EV you can get a geo metro (if they still make those)
There are options. People want a Ford Expedition type vehicles though. Bumping up the efficiency on what people want to buy is helpful.
what’s getting lost here is gas expenses people are paying that are over and above what they reasonably should be paying. They blame prices at the pump not the vehicle they chose. You can control what you drive. I don’t understand why that isn’t the starting point of addressing any of this before anything else
I refuse to heat my house in the winter as it only gets down to about 60 inside which I quite enjoy. But it’s not heating oil anyway
FORT MYERS, Florida (AP) — President Joe Biden surveyed the devastation of hurricane-ravaged Florida on Wednesday, promising to marshal the power of the federal government to help rebuild as he comforted local residents alongside Republican Gov. Ron DeSantis, a potential 2024 foe.
Biden praised DeSantis' handling of the storm recovery as both men — who have battled over pandemic protocols and migration as the governor mulls a presidential bid — put aside politics for a few days. The state is struggling to recover from the wreckage of Hurricane Ian, which tore through southwestern Florida last week and left dozens dead.
“Today we have one job and only one job, and that’s to make sure the people in Florida get everything they need to fully, thoroughly recover,” Biden said in a community that bore the brunt of Ian's assault. He warned that the rebuilding effort will take months or years.
“It’s going to take a hell of a long time, hopefully without any snags in the way," he said as DeSantis stood behind him, hands folded as he squinted into the glaring sunlight. “Later, after the television cameras have moved on, we’re still going to be here with you.”
The days after Ian's landfall in Florida have prompted a temporary détente between Biden and DeSantis, who had spoken on the phone at least three times to coordinate recovery efforts. They spent part of Wednesday meeting with area residents and, for Biden, absorbing the full scope of Ian's devastation.
HURRICANES
Florida's island dwellers dig out from Ian's destruction
Son's images show him rescuing Mom from Ian's floodwaters
Ian deals blow to Florida's teetering insurance sector
Hurricane Ian closes some Florida schools indefinitely
After Biden and first lady Jill Biden arrived earlier at Fisherman's Wharf — where homes and businesses lay in ruins amid debris and muck — DeSantis offered his hand to the president for a shake. Next to them as they spoke was a boat that the storm had lifted into a cafe
The solidarity, however fleeting, continued Wednesday afternoon when DeSantis formally welcomed Biden to his state and praised the collaboration with officials on the ground and the federal government in Washington.
“We are cutting through the red tape and that’s from local government, state government, all the way up to the president. We appreciate the team effort,” DeSantis said.
Biden said DeSantis had done a “good job” when asked by reporters to assess the governor's handling of the recovery efforts.
“We have very different political philosophies ... but we worked hand in glove,” Biden said. "On things related to dealing with this crisis, we’ve been completely lockstep. There’s been no difference.”
The breadth of the devastation that Biden witnessed was immense. The presidential motorcade drove by wind-shorn trees, some uprooted, others with branches pulled backwards by the storm. Fields off the highway were still flooded, forming stagnant lagoons.
Signs for stores and restaurants were blown out; ruined mattresses were piled in neighborhood streets, a building was tipped to the side like a chess piece. An armada of workers and repair trucks struggled with recovery.
Hurricane Ian has resulted in at least 84 people confirmed dead, including 75 in Florida, and many people still wait for power to be restored. Ian’s 150 mph winds and punishing storm surge last week took out power for 2.6 million in Florida. Many people still are unable to get food and water, although DeSantis said power has been restored to more than 97% of the state.
With the midterm elections just a month away, the crisis was bringing together political rivals in common cause at least for a time.
Biden and DeSantis have had a multitude of differences in recent years over how to fight COVID-19, immigration policy and more. In recent weeks, they tussled over the governor’s decision to put migrants on planes or buses to Democratic strongholds, a practice that Biden has called “reckless.”
Along with DeSantis, Sen. Rick Scott has also been one of Biden's most prominent Republican critics. He, Republican Sen. Marco Rubio and other state and local officials joined the president and governor. Rubio, like DeSantis, is up for reelection in November.
Jeff Rioux, a general contractor in Fort Myers and a registered Republican, said as he mopped up floors and tore out soaked drywall from his flooded house that he welcomed Biden’s visit.
“The world does need to see what happened here. It’s going get some help down here,” Rioux said of the national attention. “At some point you’ve got to put politics aside. People are hurting down here. It’s not right or left, it’s America at the end of the day.”
Biden resorted to profanity at one point, but only in an apparently jocular comment picked up by a microphone and causing much comment on social media.
As Fort Myers Beach Mayor Ray Murphy thanked Biden for coming, the president said at one point in the brief conversation, "No one f—— with a Biden,” and appeared to offer the mayor some advice.
“That’s exactly right, that’s exactly right,” Murphy said, laughing. “All right, good to see you.”
Before the storm hit, the president had intended to visit the Florida cities of Orlando and Fort Lauderdale to stress his efforts to strengthen Social Security and Medicaid. Biden has accused Scott of wanting to end both programs by proposing that federal laws should expire every five years, although the Florida senator has said he wants to preserve the programs.
The hurricane changed the purpose and tone of Biden's first trip to Florida this year, which was in an area devastated by winds and surging water. Boats, including huge yachts, were capsized and hurled inland.
FEMA Administrator Deanne Criswell told reporters on Air Force One that the cost of rebuilding will be significant: “It will certainly be in the billions and perhaps one of the more costly disasters that we’ve seen in many years.”
The White House message of bipartisan unity in a time of crisis marked a difference from Biden's predecessor, Donald Trump, who at times threatened to withhold aid from the states of Democrats who criticized him, including Govs. Gavin Newsom of California and Andrew Cuomo of New York.
___
Kim reported from Washington. Associated Press writers Bobby Caina Calvan and Curt Anderson in Fort Myers, Zeke Miller in Washington and Brendan Farrington in Tallahassee, Florida, contributed.
___
For more AP coverage of Hurricane Ian: apnews.com/hub/hurricanes
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I’m not in Florida but I think the federal government and the state are both not screwing up. So good job so far
this isn’t a Katrina response however blame will start flying at some point
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There are 8,000,000 registered cars in TX. How much longer and more expensive will it be to service all of those?
And how much bigger is California?
Im not saying building the infrastructure is bad. I’m saying expecting it to be at a point to where you can ban gas cars in the largest state and have it be practical for everyone in 12 years is unrealistic.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
lets at least not be misleading. You aren’t waking up on Jan 1, 2035 to find all 15 million cars in california being electric
if you aren’t buying new cars anyway what’s the problem? You’ll be probably 70 years old by the time you’ll have to buy one because all the used gas cars will be at least 15 years old. Plus you can always buy one in another state as they all won’t follow suit.
Pressuring auto makers was probably the bigger play here. It’s obviously intended to get these exact conversations started and planning to occur and logistics to be sorted. Great job California. Seriously
No way this will work in ten years and what about those people who only use cash?
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Should we really wait until that happens. Or until it’s so scarce it’s prohibitively expensive? Or until climate change accelerates to the point that we have even bigger concerns.
doing nothing isn’t really acceptable
Its not a station every 30 miles, so can be as far as 70. You can’t just have 1 station to service all the cars. A 5 minute wait at a gas station would equal 2 or 3 hours at a charging station.
Im not against building all of this. I’m just saying this CA law is premature. Infrastructure isn’t there, it likely won’t be in 10 years. Even if it is, is the production of new EVs going to be there? Right now they make up 1% of cars and can have wait times to buy.
I wonder how many illegal immigrants will be working to clean up the hurricane destruction in Flo Rida? I’ll bet Deathsantis can’t get enough.
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and here we are. It’s a light bulb and the Energy Independence and Security Act passed in 2007. It’s taking until 2023 to complete the phase out. What’s wrong with us? We make simple tasks unnecessarily difficult.
I can have every single light on in my house and use less electricity than one 150w incandescent bulb
it’s not the other side for sure because green energy certainly causes cancer
I really want to see these shoes though
you’ve got to be nuts to believe we are capable
there’s the Biden connection 😂
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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all new car sales only. Not used, not new cars bought elsewhere
if you aren’t buying a brand new car (current average sticker price for all new purchases regardless of engine is 50k) it doesn’t affect you one bit. You are still free to buy whatever used car you wish.
It’s literally the definition of a phase in
/ phase out approach, it’s not a hard stop on gasoline. Gas engines even in the most aggressive situation will still be lingering for decades perfectly legally
JFC, it's not like these requirements are going into effect this year.
amirite?
You rubes.
Didn't you all know climate change is a hoax?
Dark Brandon strikes again.
"if you don't agree with me, I'm going to destroy you with my passive agressive sarcasm"
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And of course I'm joking, but my huge Dem friend sent me a picture with a WTF....a Melania moment for Jill.