#46 President Joe Biden

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,421
    so gas prices in canada are biden's fault? weird. I guess the cold weather in winnipeg in the winter is the fault of deep state dem's in florida?

    yes. their power runs far and wide.
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,937
    so gas prices in canada are biden's fault? weird. I guess the cold weather in winnipeg in the winter is the fault of deep state dem's in florida?
    Not only Canada...the entire fucking world. FJB
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    so gas prices in canada are biden's fault? weird. I guess the cold weather in winnipeg in the winter is the fault of deep state dem's in florida?
    Not only Canada...the entire fucking world. FJB
    Pretty much

    if we priced it in litres in the US that solves the perception problem.  People can’t do the conversion anyway. $1.75 sounds great 

    General Mills keeps making my cereal boxes smaller.  Gas stations are way behind the curve here 

    when I’m out of cinnamon toast crunch my day is ruined. It’s outrageous! I want my cereal in the quantity and at the price I demand.  It’s the same thing but voting  because of my cereal complaints probably won’t catch on 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    Inflation in Germany is also Biden's fault.  Keep that in mind. 

    I just filled up my tank with 93 at $3.24 a gallon here in VA.  Not too shabby. 
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    mickeyrat said:
    so gas prices in canada are biden's fault? weird. I guess the cold weather in winnipeg in the winter is the fault of deep state dem's in florida?

    yes. their power runs far and wide.
    I love the Fox argument that Dems are incompetent, mush for brains.  But at the same time, diabolical election stealers that effectively hide the proof.  They are both genius and the biggest morons in the world. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    so gas prices in canada are biden's fault? weird. I guess the cold weather in winnipeg in the winter is the fault of deep state dem's in florida?

    yes. their power runs far and wide.
    I love the Fox argument that Dems are incompetent, mush for brains.  But at the same time, diabolical election stealers that effectively hide the proof.  They are both genius and the biggest morons in the world. 
    -doesn't know where he is? check
    -manipulating weather because they don't like the governor of the state? also check

    logic checks out. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    so gas prices in canada are biden's fault? weird. I guess the cold weather in winnipeg in the winter is the fault of deep state dem's in florida?

    yes. their power runs far and wide.
    I love the Fox argument that Dems are incompetent, mush for brains.  But at the same time, diabolical election stealers that effectively hide the proof.  They are both genius and the biggest morons in the world. 
    -doesn't know where he is? check
    -manipulating weather because they don't like the governor of the state? also check

    logic checks out. 
    Covid didn’t almost kill him unlike the other guy but 
    biden is still frail 

    I thought trump was going to pass out during his “triumphant” return to the White House 

    vaccines don’t work, so that can’t be the difference. It’s got to be straight up manliness and trump must be lacking 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    EVs are not affordable to many. Average cost of a used EV is way higher than many gas ones. And if you can find an affordable used EV, it will likely be totaled once the batteries run out because the cost of replacing them is so high.
    And they still aren't practical for driving long distances. My wife's parents just drove out to visit us, about 300 miles. They were looking at an EV and were told they'd have to charge twice on the drive here. And much of it is country roads with nowhere to charge.
    So for many people, EVs are still not practical if its your only car.
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    mace1229 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    EVs are not affordable to many. Average cost of a used EV is way higher than many gas ones. And if you can find an affordable used EV, it will likely be totaled once the batteries run out because the cost of replacing them is so high.
    And they still aren't practical for driving long distances. My wife's parents just drove out to visit us, about 300 miles. They were looking at an EV and were told they'd have to charge twice on the drive here. And much of it is country roads with nowhere to charge.
    So for many people, EVs are still not practical if its your only car.
    For a minority.

    95 percent of people aren’t driving 500 miles plus in a day so their day to day isn’t impacted in the slightest. When people do, the vast majority travel by interstate. Stop for lunch and recharge. It’s not impractical. An extended range EV gets you 300 miles .

    all these people who are doing 700 miles a day with 5 minute gas refuels are being dangerous no question. You need a break anyway.

    Cost savings alone makes an EV  cheaper over time.  Paying $200 a month or whatever on gas Vs $60 for the electricity should be factored in as well.  EV’s are cheaper than most big SUV’s and that’s what people are buying predominantly 

    less moving parts on an EV makes them easier to service. Cost savings.  Unless cost of ownership isn’t being factored in by car buyers 

    if you don’t want to use gas, there is a ton of options. If you want to use gas fine. The price of gas is volatile and subject to change and the president can’t control it 

    the vast majority of two adult households have two vehicles. In the US 1.88 cars per household is the average. A household can contain one adult, so one car houses aren’t the norm. they both don’t need to be 14mpg giant SUV’s 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,937
    edited October 2022
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8bOtSQuLDU

    remember this? What the fuck was he even saluting? It's like he had no idea the video was running on him the entire time until the actual photo pose.

    What a pathetic piece of shit.

    Oh...and that pussy wore a mask
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    mace1229 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    EVs are not affordable to many. Average cost of a used EV is way higher than many gas ones. And if you can find an affordable used EV, it will likely be totaled once the batteries run out because the cost of replacing them is so high.
    And they still aren't practical for driving long distances. My wife's parents just drove out to visit us, about 300 miles. They were looking at an EV and were told they'd have to charge twice on the drive here. And much of it is country roads with nowhere to charge.
    So for many people, EVs are still not practical if its your only car.
    For a minority.

    95 percent of people aren’t driving 500 miles plus in a day so their day to day isn’t impacted in the slightest. When people do, the vast majority travel by interstate. Stop for lunch and recharge. It’s not impractical

    all these people who are doing 700 miles a day with 5 minute gas refuels are being dangerous no question. You need a break anyway.

    Cost savings alone makes an EV vastly cheaper over time.  Paying $200 a month or whatever on gas Vs $60 for the electricity should be factored in as well.  EV’s are cheaper than most big SUV’s and that’s what people are buying predominantly 

    less moving parts on an EV makes them easier to service. Cost savings 

    if you don’t want to use gas, there is a ton of options. If you want to use gas fine. The price of gas is volatile and subject to change and the president can’t control it 
    You don't have to be driving 500 miles a day for it to be impractical. Only full time truckers drive that much. But 200-300 miles on back country roads once or twice a month on weekend trips makes it impractical to me. 
    I agree on the cost of big SUVs, anyone paying 60k for a gas car shouldn't complain about prices. The most I've ever paid for a car was 20k though. I couldn't get much of an EV for that, there's lots of reliable options for a gas car in that range though. 
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    EVs are not affordable to many. Average cost of a used EV is way higher than many gas ones. And if you can find an affordable used EV, it will likely be totaled once the batteries run out because the cost of replacing them is so high.
    And they still aren't practical for driving long distances. My wife's parents just drove out to visit us, about 300 miles. They were looking at an EV and were told they'd have to charge twice on the drive here. And much of it is country roads with nowhere to charge.
    So for many people, EVs are still not practical if its your only car.
    For a minority.

    95 percent of people aren’t driving 500 miles plus in a day so their day to day isn’t impacted in the slightest. When people do, the vast majority travel by interstate. Stop for lunch and recharge. It’s not impractical

    all these people who are doing 700 miles a day with 5 minute gas refuels are being dangerous no question. You need a break anyway.

    Cost savings alone makes an EV vastly cheaper over time.  Paying $200 a month or whatever on gas Vs $60 for the electricity should be factored in as well.  EV’s are cheaper than most big SUV’s and that’s what people are buying predominantly 

    less moving parts on an EV makes them easier to service. Cost savings 

    if you don’t want to use gas, there is a ton of options. If you want to use gas fine. The price of gas is volatile and subject to change and the president can’t control it 
    You don't have to be driving 500 miles a day for it to be impractical. Only full time truckers drive that much. But 200-300 miles on back country roads once or twice a month on weekend trips makes it impractical to me. 
    I agree on the cost of big SUVs, anyone paying 60k for a gas car shouldn't complain about prices. The most I've ever paid for a car was 20k though. I couldn't get much of an EV for that, there's lots of reliable options for a gas car in that range though. 
    Right, but it is practical for most people logistically. They choose not to get an EV.  That’s fine, no one is making them buy one. Cost of new vehicles EV or traditional to me is a different thing. Both categories are expensive so it’s not totally fair to compare a new Tesla to a used 2006 sedan for example. New Vs New it’s competitive 

    You can’t please everyone but a lot of the gas price complaints I hear are from people who could go EV if they wanted to no problem and not negatively impact their ability to go where they want to go which makes the complaint a bit ridiculous.  

    If I don’t want to pay the high cost of cable I don’t complain, I get a streaming service. Problem solved 

    I do cross country trips every year. I could do it in an EV if I wanted without too much hassle. Basically gulf coast to Canada. There might be some gaps so I’d probably have to plan but these days EV’s have trip planners that make sure you can get there 

    it’s only going to get better from here 


    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    edited October 2022
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    EVs are not affordable to many. Average cost of a used EV is way higher than many gas ones. And if you can find an affordable used EV, it will likely be totaled once the batteries run out because the cost of replacing them is so high.
    And they still aren't practical for driving long distances. My wife's parents just drove out to visit us, about 300 miles. They were looking at an EV and were told they'd have to charge twice on the drive here. And much of it is country roads with nowhere to charge.
    So for many people, EVs are still not practical if its your only car.
    For a minority.

    95 percent of people aren’t driving 500 miles plus in a day so their day to day isn’t impacted in the slightest. When people do, the vast majority travel by interstate. Stop for lunch and recharge. It’s not impractical

    all these people who are doing 700 miles a day with 5 minute gas refuels are being dangerous no question. You need a break anyway.

    Cost savings alone makes an EV vastly cheaper over time.  Paying $200 a month or whatever on gas Vs $60 for the electricity should be factored in as well.  EV’s are cheaper than most big SUV’s and that’s what people are buying predominantly 

    less moving parts on an EV makes them easier to service. Cost savings 

    if you don’t want to use gas, there is a ton of options. If you want to use gas fine. The price of gas is volatile and subject to change and the president can’t control it 
    You don't have to be driving 500 miles a day for it to be impractical. Only full time truckers drive that much. But 200-300 miles on back country roads once or twice a month on weekend trips makes it impractical to me. 
    I agree on the cost of big SUVs, anyone paying 60k for a gas car shouldn't complain about prices. The most I've ever paid for a car was 20k though. I couldn't get much of an EV for that, there's lots of reliable options for a gas car in that range though. 
    Right, but it is practical for most people. They choose not to get an EV.  That’s fine, no one is making them buy one. 

    You can’t please everyone but a lot of the gas price complaints I hear are from people who could go EV if they wanted to no problem and not negatively impact their ability to go where they want to go which makes the complaint a bit ridiculous.  

    If I don’t want to pay the high cost of cable I don’t complain, I get a streaming service. Problem solved 

    I do cross country trips every year. I could do it in an EV if I wanted without too much hassle. Basically gulf coast to Canada. There might be some gaps so I’d probably have to plan but these days EV’s have trip planners that make sure you can get there 

    it’s only going to get better from here 


    Not true. Newsom is trying to make them. Granted, 10 or 12 years down the road (pun intended)
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    I actually know very little about the charging process. Who makes them and maintains them? Do they cost anything? I'm talking about the ones for public use I see in parking lots. 
    I think what Newson did was dumb because there's not enough charging stations. Maybe in 10 years there will be, but then make the law then. I'll see a giant parking lot with 500 spaces and only 2 charging ports. So who would have to update all of California to keep up with the demand if this law sticks and there are more EVs on the road than gas cars?
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    EVs are not affordable to many. Average cost of a used EV is way higher than many gas ones. And if you can find an affordable used EV, it will likely be totaled once the batteries run out because the cost of replacing them is so high.
    And they still aren't practical for driving long distances. My wife's parents just drove out to visit us, about 300 miles. They were looking at an EV and were told they'd have to charge twice on the drive here. And much of it is country roads with nowhere to charge.
    So for many people, EVs are still not practical if its your only car.
    For a minority.

    95 percent of people aren’t driving 500 miles plus in a day so their day to day isn’t impacted in the slightest. When people do, the vast majority travel by interstate. Stop for lunch and recharge. It’s not impractical

    all these people who are doing 700 miles a day with 5 minute gas refuels are being dangerous no question. You need a break anyway.

    Cost savings alone makes an EV vastly cheaper over time.  Paying $200 a month or whatever on gas Vs $60 for the electricity should be factored in as well.  EV’s are cheaper than most big SUV’s and that’s what people are buying predominantly 

    less moving parts on an EV makes them easier to service. Cost savings 

    if you don’t want to use gas, there is a ton of options. If you want to use gas fine. The price of gas is volatile and subject to change and the president can’t control it 
    You don't have to be driving 500 miles a day for it to be impractical. Only full time truckers drive that much. But 200-300 miles on back country roads once or twice a month on weekend trips makes it impractical to me. 
    I agree on the cost of big SUVs, anyone paying 60k for a gas car shouldn't complain about prices. The most I've ever paid for a car was 20k though. I couldn't get much of an EV for that, there's lots of reliable options for a gas car in that range though. 
    Right, but it is practical for most people. They choose not to get an EV.  That’s fine, no one is making them buy one. 

    You can’t please everyone but a lot of the gas price complaints I hear are from people who could go EV if they wanted to no problem and not negatively impact their ability to go where they want to go which makes the complaint a bit ridiculous.  

    If I don’t want to pay the high cost of cable I don’t complain, I get a streaming service. Problem solved 

    I do cross country trips every year. I could do it in an EV if I wanted without too much hassle. Basically gulf coast to Canada. There might be some gaps so I’d probably have to plan but these days EV’s have trip planners that make sure you can get there 

    it’s only going to get better from here 


    Not true. Newsom is trying to make them. Granted, 10 or 12 years down the road (pun intended)
    Eventually yes.

    you use to be able to buy leaded gasoline too. Cars didn’t have seatbelts or air bags.  They “forced” all of that.

    it’s called progress.  

    If Kennedy didn’t say we were landing on the moon by the end of the decade (way before the technology existed to actually do it) we wouldn’t have met that goal. You need to do that or nothing happens 

    in 10 years you can do your 300 mile country road drive, guaranteed 😂
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    edited October 2022
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    EVs are not affordable to many. Average cost of a used EV is way higher than many gas ones. And if you can find an affordable used EV, it will likely be totaled once the batteries run out because the cost of replacing them is so high.
    And they still aren't practical for driving long distances. My wife's parents just drove out to visit us, about 300 miles. They were looking at an EV and were told they'd have to charge twice on the drive here. And much of it is country roads with nowhere to charge.
    So for many people, EVs are still not practical if its your only car.
    For a minority.

    95 percent of people aren’t driving 500 miles plus in a day so their day to day isn’t impacted in the slightest. When people do, the vast majority travel by interstate. Stop for lunch and recharge. It’s not impractical

    all these people who are doing 700 miles a day with 5 minute gas refuels are being dangerous no question. You need a break anyway.

    Cost savings alone makes an EV vastly cheaper over time.  Paying $200 a month or whatever on gas Vs $60 for the electricity should be factored in as well.  EV’s are cheaper than most big SUV’s and that’s what people are buying predominantly 

    less moving parts on an EV makes them easier to service. Cost savings 

    if you don’t want to use gas, there is a ton of options. If you want to use gas fine. The price of gas is volatile and subject to change and the president can’t control it 
    You don't have to be driving 500 miles a day for it to be impractical. Only full time truckers drive that much. But 200-300 miles on back country roads once or twice a month on weekend trips makes it impractical to me. 
    I agree on the cost of big SUVs, anyone paying 60k for a gas car shouldn't complain about prices. The most I've ever paid for a car was 20k though. I couldn't get much of an EV for that, there's lots of reliable options for a gas car in that range though. 
    Right, but it is practical for most people. They choose not to get an EV.  That’s fine, no one is making them buy one. 

    You can’t please everyone but a lot of the gas price complaints I hear are from people who could go EV if they wanted to no problem and not negatively impact their ability to go where they want to go which makes the complaint a bit ridiculous.  

    If I don’t want to pay the high cost of cable I don’t complain, I get a streaming service. Problem solved 

    I do cross country trips every year. I could do it in an EV if I wanted without too much hassle. Basically gulf coast to Canada. There might be some gaps so I’d probably have to plan but these days EV’s have trip planners that make sure you can get there 

    it’s only going to get better from here 


    Not true. Newsom is trying to make them. Granted, 10 or 12 years down the road (pun intended)
    Eventually yes.

    you use to be able to buy leaded gasoline too. Cars didn’t have seatbelts or air bags.  They “forced” all of that.

    it’s called progress.  

    If Kennedy didn’t say we were landing on the moon by the end of the decade (way before the technology existed to actually do it) we wouldn’t have met that goal. You need to do that or nothing happens 
    True, but all those things changed when the technology was already there. They didn't create a seatbelt law before seatbelts were common and just hoped they'd start using them. They didn't ban leaded gasoline before unleaded became common and just hoped for a different type of fuel. These changes to laws were made because they already existed inc cars. I don't see the infrastructure there in California, he's hoping it will be there in 10 years. only something like 1% of cars are fully electric, a lot more than 1% of cars had seatbelts or used unleaded gas when they made those changes.
    Kennedy didn't make it a law. No one was going to get fined for not going to the moon. It was a dream. That would be like Newson saying he hopes to be fully electric by 2035, not making laws about it.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    as a one car family living on the prairies, no EV for us in the near future. if we ever wanted to do even a small road trip, totally impractical. it's practical in major centres and cities close to other big cities. needs to be a massive upgrade in infrastructure and battery life for it to become practical for the majority. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    My prediction, if this law actually sticks (which I don't think it will), there will be a massive influx of sales in gas cars the 2-3 years prior. They won't be able to keep up with that demand and prices are going to skyrocket. Then the used value will be pretty big afterwards.
    I don't see the majority of people wanting an EV in 10 years. I don't see California making the changes it needs to in order to make it even possible. 
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    EVs are not affordable to many. Average cost of a used EV is way higher than many gas ones. And if you can find an affordable used EV, it will likely be totaled once the batteries run out because the cost of replacing them is so high.
    And they still aren't practical for driving long distances. My wife's parents just drove out to visit us, about 300 miles. They were looking at an EV and were told they'd have to charge twice on the drive here. And much of it is country roads with nowhere to charge.
    So for many people, EVs are still not practical if its your only car.
    For a minority.

    95 percent of people aren’t driving 500 miles plus in a day so their day to day isn’t impacted in the slightest. When people do, the vast majority travel by interstate. Stop for lunch and recharge. It’s not impractical

    all these people who are doing 700 miles a day with 5 minute gas refuels are being dangerous no question. You need a break anyway.

    Cost savings alone makes an EV vastly cheaper over time.  Paying $200 a month or whatever on gas Vs $60 for the electricity should be factored in as well.  EV’s are cheaper than most big SUV’s and that’s what people are buying predominantly 

    less moving parts on an EV makes them easier to service. Cost savings 

    if you don’t want to use gas, there is a ton of options. If you want to use gas fine. The price of gas is volatile and subject to change and the president can’t control it 
    You don't have to be driving 500 miles a day for it to be impractical. Only full time truckers drive that much. But 200-300 miles on back country roads once or twice a month on weekend trips makes it impractical to me. 
    I agree on the cost of big SUVs, anyone paying 60k for a gas car shouldn't complain about prices. The most I've ever paid for a car was 20k though. I couldn't get much of an EV for that, there's lots of reliable options for a gas car in that range though. 
    Right, but it is practical for most people. They choose not to get an EV.  That’s fine, no one is making them buy one. 

    You can’t please everyone but a lot of the gas price complaints I hear are from people who could go EV if they wanted to no problem and not negatively impact their ability to go where they want to go which makes the complaint a bit ridiculous.  

    If I don’t want to pay the high cost of cable I don’t complain, I get a streaming service. Problem solved 

    I do cross country trips every year. I could do it in an EV if I wanted without too much hassle. Basically gulf coast to Canada. There might be some gaps so I’d probably have to plan but these days EV’s have trip planners that make sure you can get there 

    it’s only going to get better from here 


    Not true. Newsom is trying to make them. Granted, 10 or 12 years down the road (pun intended)
    Eventually yes.

    you use to be able to buy leaded gasoline too. Cars didn’t have seatbelts or air bags.  They “forced” all of that.

    it’s called progress.  

    If Kennedy didn’t say we were landing on the moon by the end of the decade (way before the technology existed to actually do it) we wouldn’t have met that goal. You need to do that or nothing happens 
    True, but all those things changed when the technology was already there. They didn't create a seatbelt law before seatbelts were common and just hoped they'd start using them. They didn't ban leaded gasoline before unleaded became common and just hoped for a different type of fuel. These changes to laws were made because they already existed inc cars. I don't see the infrastructure there in California, he's hoping it will be there in 10 years. only something like 1% of cars are fully electric, a lot more than 1% of cars had seatbelts or used unleaded gas when they made those changes.
    Kennedy didn't make it a law. No one was going to get fined for not going to the moon. It was a dream. That would be like Newson saying he hopes to be fully electric by 2035, not making laws about it.
    If gas stations can’t sell gas since there are no gas cars, they will charge EV’s. If there is both there isn’t the incentive to offer both as the status quo is by definition easier. Space becomes an issue as they can’t effectively offer both services at once 

    there is nowhere in the US where you are out of range of a gas station. If there was, people couldn’t live there.

    the hard “infrastructure” is there. Upgrading transmission lines etc is the challenge which helps facilitate super fast charging.

    if they aren’t ready in 10 years, they will push it. It’s clearly designed to get the ball rolling. How long has it taken states to implement ID requirements so you can continue to use a drivers license to board a domestic flight? Forever. They delayed it and delayed it.  If the law wasn’t passed it would take even longer 

    are you seriously telling me we can land on mars before we can figure out how to build a comprehensive EV charging network? 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,421
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  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    mickeyrat said:
    And I don’t care where you live, nothing is more isolated and rural that west Texas. It’s vast expanses of nothing, areas larger than entire states. There are areas with significantly less than 1 person per square mile. 

    Texas has grid issues. Not necessarily production capacity issues, but delivery issues as they already need more high transmission lines as they are basically maxed out. The cynic in me says this is an excuse to upgrade infrastructure with the cover of facilitating green cars. I’m sure all the money spent will be blamed on “green energy” costs. It’s probably not totally that 

    im fairly certain some of what has to happen across the country involves improving an aging power grid which needs to be updated anyway either way 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    edited October 2022
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels?  I want.
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    static111 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels?  I want.
    Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there 

    people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that.  If you are buying a new car which  millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.  

    affordable relative to buying a new car. Affordable based on average purchase prices of an average vehicle sale 

    You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales 

    The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one.  They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap 

    Cost of ownership over time also brings the cost down. Kind of like how I’ll save more money over the life of my solar panels then I spent to buy them. When you are paying less to drive it, that adds up 

    It’s crazy to say an EV isn’t attainable to large segments of the country, just look out the window and you can see cars that cost as much or more going by all the time.  The number of people who could switch if they wanted is a lot. 

    Personally I don’t care what people drive. Get a smaller gas vehicle if you don’t like gas prices. People don’t do that either.  They would rather blame politicians for gas prices and not do anything themselves to address it 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels?  I want.
    Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there 

    people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that.  If you are buying a new car which  millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.  

    affordable relative to buying a new car. 

    You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales 

    The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one.  They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap 

    Yeah I haven't ever paid more than $10,000 for a car and have certainly never bought new or anything close to 50k. Somewhat due to finances, but also because anything more is just crazy money that I couldn't justify parting with for anything other than a house.  So that rules me out.

    Also being a renter makes it hard for most working class people I'm sure.  If your landlord doesn't agree to install a charging port you are SOL unless there is a charging station nearby, especially if you live in an apartment and can't run an extension cord out for a trickle charge off of 120v.

    If the argument is there are plenty of affordable EVs for well to do people willing to spend 50K+ on a car then I hear you.  But, "don't like gas prices don't use gas" is really a way of life that is only affordable to a small amount of people.


    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited October 2022
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels?  I want.
    Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there 

    people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that.  If you are buying a new car which  millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.  

    affordable relative to buying a new car. 

    You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales 

    The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one.  They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap 

    Yeah I haven't ever paid more than $10,000 for a car and have certainly never bought new or anything close to 50k. Somewhat due to finances, but also because anything more is just crazy money that I couldn't justify parting with for anything other than a house.  So that rules me out.

    Also being a renter makes it hard for most working class people I'm sure.  If your landlord doesn't agree to install a charging port you are SOL unless there is a charging station nearby, especially if you live in an apartment and can't run an extension cord out for a trickle charge off of 120v.

    If the argument is there are plenty of affordable EVs for well to do people willing to spend 50K+ on a car then I hear you.  But, "don't like gas prices don't use gas" is really a way of life that is only affordable to a small amount of people.


    Fair enough. If we are only talking about the millions of people who go to a new car lot every year then that’s a better context. Over time that number grows by millions of people yearly.  Over the course of 10 years imagine the number of new cars Americans buy.

    that’s what I’m talking about.  

    The amount of new pick up trucks I’ve seen lately in the middle of Houston got me thinking. Those are the people I’m thinking about.  If you don’t need it, you are spending that much anyway, you don’t live in the middle of nowhere then why not?

    Americans spend a lot of money on really questionable stuff which isn’t as value add.  I’m sure you can get a decent vehicle for 10-15k.  When people aren’t and are spending a lot more on something they don’t need they could spend the same on something else instead that is more value add 

    I can’t imagine buying a 70k Ford king ranch then paying 500 a month to fill it with gas. I’d find an alternative. I wouldn’t spend 70k on a vehicle anyway 

    the cost curve goes down and EV’s are less and less every year. They will penetrate the base model compact car market at some point 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,481
    edited October 2022
    I've been reflecting on TJ's claim that Brandon's "gaffe", and Cincy's seemingly agreeing with same, since TJ posted it and some others may have chimed in with the wish of youthful POTUS candidates, so here goes:

    To TJ's post, all I could think of was the Rolodex of names, titles, roles & places and situations that must exist in Brandon's head. He's been in Washington, first as a senator in 1972, a POTUS candidate, a VP and now POTUS. I can only imagine the list of names and faces he may have in there, 50 years of policy wonks, local, federal and world leaders, albeit, it might take a little longer to recall. Then I thought about the list in POOTWH's head and wondered how many could he actually recall, if he had to? But to compare those two lists, people and policies and situations of who you met, why and where. I know which list I'd rather have twirling around in my head and I also don't see the "gaffe" as being that egregious. I had never heard of the woman who passed away as a repub representative, I can't recall her name now but Brandon worked with her on a feeding the hungry initiative. I wonder what roles the people in POOTWH's Rolodex might have been in? Stealing an election? Arranging for prostitutes to pee on a bed? Helping you swindle people? So yea, impeach Brandon.

    To Cincy's post, he/she seems to mention that any bar set by POOTWH is a low bar and how bad things must be. I'd counter that maybe the bar was set by Obama? Maybe the bar could have been set by Hillary? But we'll never know. Now, maybe the bar is being set by Brandon and compared to POOTWH, who didn't set any kind of bar, in fact he stumbled, tripped, fell over and never even crawled anywhere close to setting the bar, its just so obvious and ridiculous that he has to reverse the comparison and pretend that POOTWH set the bar so low that any achievement by Brandon is not remarkable. Well, I beg to differ. The repub party is continuing to exalt POOTWH, a twice impeached, insurrectionist traitor, not to mention all of the other candidates in their party who fit the mold and yet Cincy believes its the dems that should clean up that mess by running dems that can beat them. Are any of the dem candidates currently running against the repub crop not better, morally and potentially effective candidates? Warnock versus Walker in Georgia? Beto versus Abbot & Costello in Tejas? Crist "I should add an H to my name" versus Deathsantis in Florida? And the list goes on an on and on. He then went on to state that he's had enough and he's left the repub party. Therein lies the difference, I give you Senator Al Franken. Dems clean their house and repubs double down and elevate their worst instincts. Even so, there is no comparing the two parties, who they run and what they stand for. I'm glad Cincy left the repub party but there are millions upon millions of repubs, indies and yes, some dems, that support that crazy train. I called and emailed my State's repub party several times to ask if they believe Brandon was the legitimate POTUS and whether they still backed POOTWH. I never received an answer. Cincy could at least vote in primaries, or heaven forbid switch registrations and vote dem, because as he says, they won't change until they lose elections.

    Back to setting the bar, here is but one example of Brandon setting the bar so high that POOTWH would need a rocket to reach it. From the NYT email blast of yesterday:

    ‘It’s turned around’

     

    The Covid mass vaccination program in the U.S. began on Dec. 14, 2020, when a nurse at a hospital in Queens, N.Y., received a shot on live television.

    But more than two months later, a major health clinic based in North Birmingham, Ala. — which focused on lower-income, Black and Latino residents — still had not given a single vaccine dose. The clinic, Alabama Regional Medical Services, was not able to give shots because it had not received any from the state supply.

    The reasons were a matter of dispute. Alabama officials insisted that other Birmingham clinics had signed up first, exhausting the initial supply. Some officials in North Birmingham, however, believed that the state’s white, Republican leadership was ignoring heavily nonwhite, Democratic neighborhoods.

    “The long and short of it,” Chris Mosley, who oversaw outreach for the clinic, told me, “was that the Black neighborhoods didn’t have vaccines and the white areas did.”

    Birmingham may have been an extreme case, but it was also part of a pattern. Around the U.S., many Black and Latino communities had limited early access to the Covid vaccines. That lack of access — combined with greater vaccine hesitancy among some people of color — contributed to racial gaps in vaccination and, by extension, large racial gaps in Covid death rates.

    In today’s newsletter, I want to tell you the story of what ended up happening in Birmingham, as a way of revisiting the larger issue of Covid and race.

    ‘Can we get some?’

    By late February 2021, Mosley was able to use his political contacts to alert the Biden administration to his clinic’s lack of vaccines. His plea for help arrived when White House aides, then in their first weeks in office, were looking for ways to narrow the racial gap in vaccinations. “The natural social history of many diseases is that they tend toward inequality, unless you intentionally combat it,” said Dr. Cameron Webb, a pandemic adviser in the Biden administration.

    The Trump administration had seemed uninterested in combating those inequities, leaving it up to states. President Biden made closing the gaps a priority. “We built our Covid response with equity at the heart of it,” Ron Klain, the White House chief of staff, told me.

    The administration diverted some vaccine doses from state stockpiles directly to community health clinics. It created a working group across agencies to spread successful ideas. It put federal clinics in Black and Latino neighborhoods. It also helped local organizations set up clinics at churches, barbershops and beauty salons. “In more affluent communities,” Webb said, “people had choices about where they felt confident getting vaccinated.”

    As Mosley said, “People would call me and say, ‘I hear you’ve got vaccines over there. Can we get some?’” He added, “It’s turned around in a major way.”

    In the spring of 2021, several months into the mass vaccination program, white Americans were significantly more likely to have been vaccinated than Black or Latino Americans. By late 2021, the Hispanic rate was higher than the white rate, and the Black rate was almost as high as the white rate, according to the C.D.C. As a result, the racial gap in death rates has also disappeared.

     

    Data is from Jan. 4, 2020 to Sept. 3, 2022. | Sources: C.D.C.; U.S. Census Bureau

    That disappearance is arguably one of Biden’s biggest accomplishments — one that would not have happened, to be clear, without passionate advocacy and hard work by many community health officials. In a country with deep racial inequities, where Covid was initially another tragic example, the virus is no longer disproportionately harming Black and Hispanic Americans.

    Yet this accomplishment continues to receive relatively little attention. Why is that?

    Two different measures

    I first wrote about the reversal of the racial gaps in June, and that newsletter upset some health care experts. They believed I had made a mistake by focusing on overall death rates rather than age-adjusted rates. And there is a fair debate about when to emphasize each one.

    Overall death rates are the primary way that many organizations (including The Times, on its Covid dashboards, and the C.D.C., in its annual mortality report) describe a disease’s toll. This rate offers a census of who’s dying. If one group’s death rate is higher than another’s, it means the victims of that disease come disproportionately from the first of the two groups.

    But an age-adjusted rate also has advantages. It effectively compares a disease’s toll with its expected toll based on the age profile of different groups. For that reason, the C.D.C.’s mortality report also includes age-adjusted tables — just after the overall tables — for each cause of death. Because white Americans are older than Black or Latino Americans on average and because most diseases affect the old more than the young, age-adjusted rates tend show larger racial gaps.

    If this statistical detail is making your head hurt, I have some good news: It doesn’t affect the main conclusions about Covid and race. By both the overall and age-adjusted measures, the Covid death rates for Black and Latino Americans were higher than the white rate in the early stages of the pandemic, and they remain higher cumulatively. Recently, though, the patterns have changed, and the Black and Latino rates are no longer higher.

     

    The overall Black and Latino rates have been generally lower than the white rate for more than a year:

    Data is from Jan. 4, 2020 to Sept. 3, 2022. | Sources: C.D.C.; U.S. Census Bureau

     

    The age-adjusted gap lasted longer, before narrowing early this year and eventually flipping. Since April, the Latino age-adjusted rate has been about 15 percent lower than the white rate. The age-adjusted Black rate has been nearly identical to the white rate — with the Black rate about 1 percent lower — during the same period. (The Asian rate has been lowest for much longer.)

    Data is from Jan. 4, 2020 to Sept. 3, 2022. | Sources: C.D.C.; U.S. Census Bureau

     

    One reason is that the remaining pool of unvaccinated Americans is disproportionately Republican, and Republicans are disproportionately white.

    “The inequities have largely dissipated in recent weeks and months, even after adjusting for age,” Katelyn Jetelina, an epidemiologist who writes a popular newsletter, told me. “This is absolutely a success story about public health: Targeted, local outreach and stakeholder engagement and investment can overcome decades of health inequities.”

    Good news, ignored

    If you listen to much of the public discussion about Covid, however, you still might not know about the change in the racial gaps. You might be unaware of a public health success story, with potential lessons for reducing the country’s other stark racial inequities — in incomes, housing, education, criminal justice, the medical system and many other realms.

    There are even lessons for future Covid policy. Absent a continued effort, racial gaps could open in booster rates or access to Paxlovid, a drug that reduces Covid symptoms.

    There seem to be multiple reasons that the Covid story has been mostly overlooked. In our polarized country, many conservatives are reluctant to call attention to any accomplishment of Biden’s. Many liberals, meanwhile, feel uncomfortable calling attention to any decline in racial or economic inequity, because they worry it minimizes those problems. Some liberals have also been hesitant to talk about positive Covid news, believing that the country is still too blasé about the virus.

    But it should be possible to acknowledge the full picture. For all of the misery that Covid has brought, it has also become a case study that should remind us racial injustice can sometimes be overcome.

    Continue reading the main story

    But yea, lets discuss "gaffes" in the context of being unfit for office.

    Written while hammered.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels?  I want.
    Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there 

    people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that.  If you are buying a new car which  millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.  

    affordable relative to buying a new car. 

    You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales 

    The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one.  They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap 

    Yeah I haven't ever paid more than $10,000 for a car and have certainly never bought new or anything close to 50k. Somewhat due to finances, but also because anything more is just crazy money that I couldn't justify parting with for anything other than a house.  So that rules me out.

    Also being a renter makes it hard for most working class people I'm sure.  If your landlord doesn't agree to install a charging port you are SOL unless there is a charging station nearby, especially if you live in an apartment and can't run an extension cord out for a trickle charge off of 120v.

    If the argument is there are plenty of affordable EVs for well to do people willing to spend 50K+ on a car then I hear you.  But, "don't like gas prices don't use gas" is really a way of life that is only affordable to a small amount of people.


    Fair enough. If we are only talking about the millions of people who go to a new car lot every year then that’s a better context. Over time that number grows by millions of people yearly.  Over the course of 10 years imagine the number of new cars Americans buy.

    that’s what I’m talking about.  

    The amount of new pick up trucks I’ve seen lately in the middle of Houston got me thinking. Those are the people I’m thinking about.  If you don’t need it, you are spending that much anyway, you don’t live in the middle of nowhere then why not?

    Americans spend a lot of money on really questionable stuff which isn’t as value add.  I’m sure you can get a decent vehicle for 10-15k.  When people aren’t and are spending a lot more on something they don’t need they could spend the same on something else instead that is more value add 

    I can’t imagine buying a 70k Ford king ranch then paying 500 a month to fill it with gas. I’d find an alternative. I wouldn’t spend 70k on a vehicle anyway 

    the cost curve goes down and EV’s are less and less every year. They will penetrate the base model compact car market at some point 
    Believe me I would love an affordable EV with long range capabilities.  Financially I will be a late adopter!
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,421
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels?  I want.
    Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there 

    people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that.  If you are buying a new car which  millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.  

    affordable relative to buying a new car. 

    You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales 

    The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one.  They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap 

    Yeah I haven't ever paid more than $10,000 for a car and have certainly never bought new or anything close to 50k. Somewhat due to finances, but also because anything more is just crazy money that I couldn't justify parting with for anything other than a house.  So that rules me out.

    Also being a renter makes it hard for most working class people I'm sure.  If your landlord doesn't agree to install a charging port you are SOL unless there is a charging station nearby, especially if you live in an apartment and can't run an extension cord out for a trickle charge off of 120v.

    If the argument is there are plenty of affordable EVs for well to do people willing to spend 50K+ on a car then I hear you.  But, "don't like gas prices don't use gas" is really a way of life that is only affordable to a small amount of people.


    Fair enough. If we are only talking about the millions of people who go to a new car lot every year then that’s a better context. Over time that number grows by millions of people yearly.  Over the course of 10 years imagine the number of new cars Americans buy.

    that’s what I’m talking about.  

    The amount of new pick up trucks I’ve seen lately in the middle of Houston got me thinking. Those are the people I’m thinking about.  If you don’t need it, you are spending that much anyway, you don’t live in the middle of nowhere then why not?

    Americans spend a lot of money on really questionable stuff which isn’t as value add.  I’m sure you can get a decent vehicle for 10-15k.  When people aren’t and are spending a lot more on something they don’t need they could spend the same on something else instead that is more value add 

    I can’t imagine buying a 70k Ford king ranch then paying 500 a month to fill it with gas. I’d find an alternative. I wouldn’t spend 70k on a vehicle anyway 

    the cost curve goes down and EV’s are less and less every year. They will penetrate the base model compact car market at some point 

    and for that truck buyer, there are ev models out now.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels?  I want.
    Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there 

    people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that.  If you are buying a new car which  millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.  

    affordable relative to buying a new car. 

    You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales 

    The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one.  They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap 

    Yeah I haven't ever paid more than $10,000 for a car and have certainly never bought new or anything close to 50k. Somewhat due to finances, but also because anything more is just crazy money that I couldn't justify parting with for anything other than a house.  So that rules me out.

    Also being a renter makes it hard for most working class people I'm sure.  If your landlord doesn't agree to install a charging port you are SOL unless there is a charging station nearby, especially if you live in an apartment and can't run an extension cord out for a trickle charge off of 120v.

    If the argument is there are plenty of affordable EVs for well to do people willing to spend 50K+ on a car then I hear you.  But, "don't like gas prices don't use gas" is really a way of life that is only affordable to a small amount of people.


    Fair enough. If we are only talking about the millions of people who go to a new car lot every year then that’s a better context. Over time that number grows by millions of people yearly.  Over the course of 10 years imagine the number of new cars Americans buy.

    that’s what I’m talking about.  

    The amount of new pick up trucks I’ve seen lately in the middle of Houston got me thinking. Those are the people I’m thinking about.  If you don’t need it, you are spending that much anyway, you don’t live in the middle of nowhere then why not?

    Americans spend a lot of money on really questionable stuff which isn’t as value add.  I’m sure you can get a decent vehicle for 10-15k.  When people aren’t and are spending a lot more on something they don’t need they could spend the same on something else instead that is more value add 

    I can’t imagine buying a 70k Ford king ranch then paying 500 a month to fill it with gas. I’d find an alternative. I wouldn’t spend 70k on a vehicle anyway 

    the cost curve goes down and EV’s are less and less every year. They will penetrate the base model compact car market at some point 
    Believe me I would love an affordable EV with long range capabilities.  Financially I will be a late adopter!
    Fuel efficiency standards were gutted under Trump 

    part of my frustration is people blaming Biden for gas prices which he can’t control but ignoring fuel efficiency standards which Trump  could control. 

    If you are putting people in cars they can’t afford to fill up whose fault is that really?


  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,421
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    static111 said:
    Plus like no time in our history you don’t need a gas vehicle. Don’t like gas prices? Don’t use gas.  

    Simple Republican free market dynamics.  

    EV’s are capable, affordable, and can do anything your gas powered vehicle does. Often times more

    gas prices should be a non issue. It’s not like the water company charging 8 bucks a gallon for water and you will die if you can’t pay for it. 

    There is a war going on, prices are high. How about some conserving? Behaviour changes? Gas prices are only high in practice if you carry on with the same usage as before. 

    where are these affordable practical EVs that don't get any power from fossil fuels?  I want.
    Americans pay on average close to 50k for a new vehicle . Plenty of EV options around there 

    people buy new cars and suvs every day that cost a lot more than that.  If you are buying a new car which  millions of people do every year you are already in that ballpark no matter if you want to be or not.  

    affordable relative to buying a new car. 

    You can’t really compare a cheap vehicle to an EV. Cheap vehicles aren’t really what consumers are buying though based on the average purchase price of vehicle sales 

    The most popular truck in the country the F 150 you are in the 50k range too on average. No one I know with a truck needs one.  They want one and that’s fine. It’s not cheap 

    Yeah I haven't ever paid more than $10,000 for a car and have certainly never bought new or anything close to 50k. Somewhat due to finances, but also because anything more is just crazy money that I couldn't justify parting with for anything other than a house.  So that rules me out.

    Also being a renter makes it hard for most working class people I'm sure.  If your landlord doesn't agree to install a charging port you are SOL unless there is a charging station nearby, especially if you live in an apartment and can't run an extension cord out for a trickle charge off of 120v.

    If the argument is there are plenty of affordable EVs for well to do people willing to spend 50K+ on a car then I hear you.  But, "don't like gas prices don't use gas" is really a way of life that is only affordable to a small amount of people.


    Fair enough. If we are only talking about the millions of people who go to a new car lot every year then that’s a better context. Over time that number grows by millions of people yearly.  Over the course of 10 years imagine the number of new cars Americans buy.

    that’s what I’m talking about.  

    The amount of new pick up trucks I’ve seen lately in the middle of Houston got me thinking. Those are the people I’m thinking about.  If you don’t need it, you are spending that much anyway, you don’t live in the middle of nowhere then why not?

    Americans spend a lot of money on really questionable stuff which isn’t as value add.  I’m sure you can get a decent vehicle for 10-15k.  When people aren’t and are spending a lot more on something they don’t need they could spend the same on something else instead that is more value add 

    I can’t imagine buying a 70k Ford king ranch then paying 500 a month to fill it with gas. I’d find an alternative. I wouldn’t spend 70k on a vehicle anyway 

    the cost curve goes down and EV’s are less and less every year. They will penetrate the base model compact car market at some point 
    Believe me I would love an affordable EV with long range capabilities.  Financially I will be a late adopter!
    Fuel efficiency standards were gutted under Trump 

    part of my frustration is people blaming Biden for gas prices which he can’t control but ignoring fuel efficiency standards which Trump  could control. 

    If you are putting people in cars they can’t afford to fill up whose fault is that really?



    yeah, but there are higher mileage vehicles available. that part is a consumer choice. reward those companies or go rah rah.....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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