1. There's a big difference between liberals and progressives. This short tries to lump libs, progressives and center left people like me, into one bucket. Worse, it cherry picks state and county decisions that support its conclusions into one broad bucket. I find that irritating.
2. However, it does bring out a fundamental truth. The country truly is center right. Now that center always moves, but it's center right. And the VA elections should be a wake up call. You want to push these far left policies, you will lose elections. Is it better to be center left or out of power?
I don't like sounding "alarmist", but it scares the bejesus out of me to see how the U.S. is moving to the right and what that could mean for environmental and social justice issues.
View it through the arc of history. We are far more liberal than we were in the 50s, 60s, 90s, etc. There's some ebb and flow, but the social movement left continues.
1950's, definitely. More liberal in the sixties? The Kennedy/Johnson/ years? I don't think so!
in the 60's, true civil rights was regional at best. There were race riots everywhere. The south was still segregated. Gay marriage was not legal, socially acceptable or frankly even contemplated. Marijuana use was certainly not acceptable. While the hippies and the counterculture were 'liberal' of course, they were called the counterculture for a reason. They were outside what was considered the norms of society. You lived through it, not me. But to hear someone say that center of the nations cultural society was more liberal in the 60's than it is today is surprising.
America was capable of electing a Richard Nixon late in that decade, but also getting him out of there later on. As flawed as that president was, he was no Donald Trump. America would not have stood for a Trump in the 60 and 70's. We did in the 2010's... and couldn't even dump him when we (sort of) tried. And no way would right wingers try to break into the Capitol building like they did Jan. 6. This kind of shit just did not happen then. We were not on the verge of losing Democracy. No way would Americans tolerate flags on cars that read "Fuck Kennedy" like we see that say "Fuck Biden". For all it's flaws back then, overall, the U.S. was not as radically right wing then as it is today. This country is way more screwed up today.
I think what you're referring to though is a niche group of folks, not the majority of conservatives/republicans. sure, most tolerate that bullshit, but aren't actively participating in it.
I think for the most part the US is more liberal than it used to be.
maybe...but a lot of those people that might support "liberal" policies are so ignorant they vote GOP because that is their "team"
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
1. There's a big difference between liberals and progressives. This short tries to lump libs, progressives and center left people like me, into one bucket. Worse, it cherry picks state and county decisions that support its conclusions into one broad bucket. I find that irritating.
2. However, it does bring out a fundamental truth. The country truly is center right. Now that center always moves, but it's center right. And the VA elections should be a wake up call. You want to push these far left policies, you will lose elections. Is it better to be center left or out of power?
I don't like sounding "alarmist", but it scares the bejesus out of me to see how the U.S. is moving to the right and what that could mean for environmental and social justice issues.
View it through the arc of history. We are far more liberal than we were in the 50s, 60s, 90s, etc. There's some ebb and flow, but the social movement left continues.
1950's, definitely. More liberal in the sixties? The Kennedy/Johnson/ years? I don't think so!
in the 60's, true civil rights was regional at best. There were race riots everywhere. The south was still segregated. Gay marriage was not legal, socially acceptable or frankly even contemplated. Marijuana use was certainly not acceptable. While the hippies and the counterculture were 'liberal' of course, they were called the counterculture for a reason. They were outside what was considered the norms of society. You lived through it, not me. But to hear someone say that center of the nations cultural society was more liberal in the 60's than it is today is surprising.
America was capable of electing a Richard Nixon late in that decade, but also getting him out of there later on. As flawed as that president was, he was no Donald Trump. America would not have stood for a Trump in the 60 and 70's. We did in the 2010's... and couldn't even dump him when we (sort of) tried. And no way would right wingers try to break into the Capitol building like they did Jan. 6. This kind of shit just did not happen then. We were not on the verge of losing Democracy. No way would Americans tolerate flags on cars that read "Fuck Kennedy" like we see that say "Fuck Biden". For all it's flaws back then, overall, the U.S. was not as radically right wing then as it is today. This country is way more screwed up today.
I agree with many of these points, and I would synthesize it by saying the right wing is more extreme than it was back then. I think that is for sure. The country had its John Birch Society nutjobs, but they were considered nuts by the party. Goldwater got demolished too. So yes, I'm there with you. But I still think the center of American culture is more liberal today than it was back then. But the extreme is also more dangerous. To me, that's an output of social media.
I'd like to provide more evidence as to why I think America is more conservative today than in the sixties.
You brought up gay marriage as a reason to believe we are more liberal now. But another way to look at that is this: In the late 1960's, American male actors were humping posters of Mick Jagger on stages on both coasts in the play "Hair". This, and other culturally related actions were all a part of bringing gayness out of the closet in this country. That was huge, particularly for gay men because Americans have always been less aggressively hostile toward lesbians than toward gay men (for example, in 1965, two women could walk down the street holding hands. Two men doing the same would, at the very least, likely be accosted.) Gay marriage would not have happened without those 60's ground breaking efforts. And much of America only begrudgingly accepts gay marriage, not to mention the freedom to be openly gay today. The hatred is just as strong today.
Another reason, I would suggest, that America is more conservative today relates to population demographics. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that in general, liberals tend to be better educated than the average American conservative. This is one of the reasons liberal couples tend to bear fewer children. Liberals tend to be less religious than conservatives. Religious people tend to have more children. I don't know any left leaning person from my generation who had more than two kids max. The more conservative people I have known have generally had larger families. I think the same hold true today. I live in a conservative county and I frequently see large families on the walking trail or in the bookstore or walking down Main Street. I don't see this nearly as often when I visit friends in the much more liberal Bay Area. The religious right encourages large families. Their numbers are growing. Meanwhile, many of the rest of us are asleep as to what is happening in this country.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
1. There's a big difference between liberals and progressives. This short tries to lump libs, progressives and center left people like me, into one bucket. Worse, it cherry picks state and county decisions that support its conclusions into one broad bucket. I find that irritating.
2. However, it does bring out a fundamental truth. The country truly is center right. Now that center always moves, but it's center right. And the VA elections should be a wake up call. You want to push these far left policies, you will lose elections. Is it better to be center left or out of power?
I don't like sounding "alarmist", but it scares the bejesus out of me to see how the U.S. is moving to the right and what that could mean for environmental and social justice issues.
View it through the arc of history. We are far more liberal than we were in the 50s, 60s, 90s, etc. There's some ebb and flow, but the social movement left continues.
1950's, definitely. More liberal in the sixties? The Kennedy/Johnson/ years? I don't think so!
in the 60's, true civil rights was regional at best. There were race riots everywhere. The south was still segregated. Gay marriage was not legal, socially acceptable or frankly even contemplated. Marijuana use was certainly not acceptable. While the hippies and the counterculture were 'liberal' of course, they were called the counterculture for a reason. They were outside what was considered the norms of society. You lived through it, not me. But to hear someone say that center of the nations cultural society was more liberal in the 60's than it is today is surprising.
America was capable of electing a Richard Nixon late in that decade, but also getting him out of there later on. As flawed as that president was, he was no Donald Trump. America would not have stood for a Trump in the 60 and 70's. We did in the 2010's... and couldn't even dump him when we (sort of) tried. And no way would right wingers try to break into the Capitol building like they did Jan. 6. This kind of shit just did not happen then. We were not on the verge of losing Democracy. No way would Americans tolerate flags on cars that read "Fuck Kennedy" like we see that say "Fuck Biden". For all it's flaws back then, overall, the U.S. was not as radically right wing then as it is today. This country is way more screwed up today.
I agree with many of these points, and I would synthesize it by saying the right wing is more extreme than it was back then. I think that is for sure. The country had its John Birch Society nutjobs, but they were considered nuts by the party. Goldwater got demolished too. So yes, I'm there with you. But I still think the center of American culture is more liberal today than it was back then. But the extreme is also more dangerous. To me, that's an output of social media.
I'd like to provide more evidence as to why I think America is more conservative today than in the sixties.
You brought up gay marriage as a reason to believe we are more liberal now. But another way to look at that is this: In the late 1960's, American male actors were humping posters of Mick Jagger on stages on both coasts in the play "Hair". This, and other culturally related actions were all a part of bringing gayness out of the closet in this country. That was huge, particularly for gay men because Americans have always been less aggressively hostile toward lesbians than toward gay men (for example, in 1965, two women could walk down the street holding hands. Two men doing the same would, at the very least, likely be accosted.) Gay marriage would not have happened without those 60's ground breaking efforts. And much of America only begrudgingly accepts gay marriage, not to mention the freedom to be openly gay today. The hatred is just as strong today.
Another reason, I would suggest, that America is more conservative today relates to population demographics. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that in general, liberals tend to be better educated than the average American conservative. This is one of the reasons liberal couples tend to bear fewer children. Liberals tend to be less religious than conservatives. Religious people tend to have more children. I don't know any left leaning person from my generation who had more than two kids max. The more conservative people I have known have generally had larger families. I think the same hold true today. I live in a conservative county and I frequently see large families on the walking trail or in the bookstore or walking down Main Street. I don't see this nearly as often when I visit friends in the much more liberal Bay Area. The religious right encourages large families. Their numbers are growing. Meanwhile, many of the rest of us are asleep as to what is happening in this country.
Brian -
To your first point, I 100% agree with you that the 60's opened the door to gay marriage and acceptance of gay, lesbian, bi population in this country. Without the groundbreaking counterculture changes to the 'norms', we would not be where we are today. But I don't think that much of America begrudgingly accepts it. I think it's legitimately accepted by the majority. According to this gallup poll from the summer 70%! support it. As late as the 90's, it was only 27%. This is an amazing change. REmember in 2008, not even Obama supported it. Biden actually paved that path for him. https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486/record-high-support-same-sex-marriage.aspx
Now your other point is even more interesting. I agree that religious people tend to have larger families. However, the birth rate in this country continues to fall, as does the number of people who consider themselves religious and go to church. I can't link a photo here, but the link it to survey data from two years ago. People who consider themselves Christian is falling, while unaffiliated is rising. https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/
Is it possible that your view of this is skewed by your surroundings? If I'm not mistaken, you grew up in teh most liberal area in the country during the height of the 60s, but now you live in rural Trump country.
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
1. There's a big difference between liberals and progressives. This short tries to lump libs, progressives and center left people like me, into one bucket. Worse, it cherry picks state and county decisions that support its conclusions into one broad bucket. I find that irritating.
2. However, it does bring out a fundamental truth. The country truly is center right. Now that center always moves, but it's center right. And the VA elections should be a wake up call. You want to push these far left policies, you will lose elections. Is it better to be center left or out of power?
I don't like sounding "alarmist", but it scares the bejesus out of me to see how the U.S. is moving to the right and what that could mean for environmental and social justice issues.
View it through the arc of history. We are far more liberal than we were in the 50s, 60s, 90s, etc. There's some ebb and flow, but the social movement left continues.
1950's, definitely. More liberal in the sixties? The Kennedy/Johnson/ years? I don't think so!
in the 60's, true civil rights was regional at best. There were race riots everywhere. The south was still segregated. Gay marriage was not legal, socially acceptable or frankly even contemplated. Marijuana use was certainly not acceptable. While the hippies and the counterculture were 'liberal' of course, they were called the counterculture for a reason. They were outside what was considered the norms of society. You lived through it, not me. But to hear someone say that center of the nations cultural society was more liberal in the 60's than it is today is surprising.
America was capable of electing a Richard Nixon late in that decade, but also getting him out of there later on. As flawed as that president was, he was no Donald Trump. America would not have stood for a Trump in the 60 and 70's. We did in the 2010's... and couldn't even dump him when we (sort of) tried. And no way would right wingers try to break into the Capitol building like they did Jan. 6. This kind of shit just did not happen then. We were not on the verge of losing Democracy. No way would Americans tolerate flags on cars that read "Fuck Kennedy" like we see that say "Fuck Biden". For all it's flaws back then, overall, the U.S. was not as radically right wing then as it is today. This country is way more screwed up today.
I agree with many of these points, and I would synthesize it by saying the right wing is more extreme than it was back then. I think that is for sure. The country had its John Birch Society nutjobs, but they were considered nuts by the party. Goldwater got demolished too. So yes, I'm there with you. But I still think the center of American culture is more liberal today than it was back then. But the extreme is also more dangerous. To me, that's an output of social media.
I'd like to provide more evidence as to why I think America is more conservative today than in the sixties.
You brought up gay marriage as a reason to believe we are more liberal now. But another way to look at that is this: In the late 1960's, American male actors were humping posters of Mick Jagger on stages on both coasts in the play "Hair". This, and other culturally related actions were all a part of bringing gayness out of the closet in this country. That was huge, particularly for gay men because Americans have always been less aggressively hostile toward lesbians than toward gay men (for example, in 1965, two women could walk down the street holding hands. Two men doing the same would, at the very least, likely be accosted.) Gay marriage would not have happened without those 60's ground breaking efforts. And much of America only begrudgingly accepts gay marriage, not to mention the freedom to be openly gay today. The hatred is just as strong today.
Another reason, I would suggest, that America is more conservative today relates to population demographics. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that in general, liberals tend to be better educated than the average American conservative. This is one of the reasons liberal couples tend to bear fewer children. Liberals tend to be less religious than conservatives. Religious people tend to have more children. I don't know any left leaning person from my generation who had more than two kids max. The more conservative people I have known have generally had larger families. I think the same hold true today. I live in a conservative county and I frequently see large families on the walking trail or in the bookstore or walking down Main Street. I don't see this nearly as often when I visit friends in the much more liberal Bay Area. The religious right encourages large families. Their numbers are growing. Meanwhile, many of the rest of us are asleep as to what is happening in this country.
Brian -
To your first point, I 100% agree with you that the 60's opened the door to gay marriage and acceptance of gay, lesbian, bi population in this country. Without the groundbreaking counterculture changes to the 'norms', we would not be where we are today. But I don't think that much of America begrudgingly accepts it. I think it's legitimately accepted by the majority. According to this gallup poll from the summer 70%! support it. As late as the 90's, it was only 27%. This is an amazing change. REmember in 2008, not even Obama supported it. Biden actually paved that path for him. https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486/record-high-support-same-sex-marriage.aspx
Now your other point is even more interesting. I agree that religious people tend to have larger families. However, the birth rate in this country continues to fall, as does the number of people who consider themselves religious and go to church. I can't link a photo here, but the link it to survey data from two years ago. People who consider themselves Christian is falling, while unaffiliated is rising. https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/
Is it possible that your view of this is skewed by your surroundings? If I'm not mistaken, you grew up in teh most liberal area in the country during the height of the 60s, but now you live in rural Trump country.
I can see how it would appear that my view could be skewed by my surrounds, present and past. I know people from many part of the country and have family quite scattered across the land, so perhaps not as much as it would seem. (The dichotomy of where I grew up in the Bay Area and where I live new is so strange!) My view may be even more skewed by a strong sense of disappointment in my generation. We made or instigated big changes, but then got soft on keeping up the support of the progressive movement as we (my generation, not me!) became more conservative ourselves.
I'm going to go this far with this: I will agree to the notion that we have moved the needle progressively forward in some ways, and actually backtracked in others. The biggest backtracking is in our nation's slipping support of Democracy. This has been well reported recently, as I'm sure you are well aware!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
100% I agree that our democracy is under threat. We have fallen way back in that area, too many way to discuss and it makes me ill to think about it. I also agree that the Boomers kind of busted out and failed the future. They held all the promise. I'm Gen Z and we pretty much don't give a fuck. Millenials are douchebags so it's up to the Z's now.
100% I agree that our democracy is under threat. We have fallen way back in that area, too many way to discuss and it makes me ill to think about it. I also agree that the Boomers kind of busted out and failed the future. They held all the promise. I'm Gen Z and we pretty much don't give a fuck. Millenials are douchebags so it's up to the Z's now.
100% I agree that our democracy is under threat. We have fallen way back in that area, too many way to discuss and it makes me ill to think about it. I also agree that the Boomers kind of busted out and failed the future. They held all the promise. I'm Gen Z and we pretty much don't give a fuck. Millenials are douchebags so it's up to the Z's now.
Im thinking you meant to say you are gen x, or you are one of the youngest members on the board with several kids.
100% I agree that our democracy is under threat. We have fallen way back in that area, too many way to discuss and it makes me ill to think about it. I also agree that the Boomers kind of busted out and failed the future. They held all the promise. I'm Gen Z and we pretty much don't give a fuck. Millenials are douchebags so it's up to the Z's now.
Im thinking you meant to say you are gen x, or you are one of the youngest members on the board with several kids.
Gen Zed just doesn't sound right. Like Zed Zed Top. why the fuck do canadians say it that way? Zee is so much cooler.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
Interesting (and funny, HFD!) comments here.
My parents G.I. generation certainly had their faults, but as time passes, I more and more understand why they have been called "The Greatest Generation". And one of, (if not the) thing that made them great was the Great Depression. Those were brutally tough times. We've all heard the stories. My father's stories often were about how he and his brother grew up without a father and how their mother had a hard time working (when she could find work) and raising those boys on so little. They were so poor, as a young boy my father and a friend of his went around town scavenging any little scraps of metal he could find to turn into for a few cents at the scrap yard. Then later, at night, he would crawl under the fence and threw a few of the scraps of metal back over the fence to his buddy who would later turn them back in again for a few more cents. As an old man telling me these things, he wasn't proud of the theft. He was proud of the cleverness his young little self to help his and his friend's starving families.
So maybe that's what it will take. Today, almost every kid in America born since the boomer generation has his or her own phone and TV. Most of them are driven to school rather than taking the bus, let alone walking. They are often over-fed. Few know the difference between "want" and "need". Maybe this country needs another worst hard time. Sorry to say, it's coming, regardless.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Gen Zed just doesn't sound right. Like Zed Zed Top. why the fuck do canadians say it that way? Zee is so much cooler.
Gen Zed's dead, baby. Gen Zed's dead.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
President Biden received an ugly welcome in the Land of 10,000 Lakes on Tuesday when his motorcade passed dozens of protesters who held vulgar signs dissing the commander-in-chief.
Some of the demonstrators waved campaign flags for former President Donald Trump.
One sign said “FJB” in an apparent abbreviation of “F–k Joe Biden.”
“A less coded version just outright said ‘F–k you Biden’ with the U in the F word cleverly drawn to look like a middle finger,” reported White House pool correspondent Todd Gillman of the Dallas Morning News.
“A real middle finger attached to a somewhat rough-looking middle-age man with a beard was upraised as motorcade passed,” Gillman added.
President Biden received an ugly welcome in the Land of 10,000 Lakes on Tuesday when his motorcade passed dozens of protesters who held vulgar signs dissing the commander-in-chief.
Some of the demonstrators waved campaign flags for former President Donald Trump.
One sign said “FJB” in an apparent abbreviation of “F–k Joe Biden.”
“A less coded version just outright said ‘F–k you Biden’ with the U in the F word cleverly drawn to look like a middle finger,” reported White House pool correspondent Todd Gillman of the Dallas Morning News.
“A real middle finger attached to a somewhat rough-looking middle-age man with a beard was upraised as motorcade passed,” Gillman added.
Probably the same assholes that came into the city and burned the police station down
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
President Biden received an ugly welcome in the Land of 10,000 Lakes on Tuesday when his motorcade passed dozens of protesters who held vulgar signs dissing the commander-in-chief.
Some of the demonstrators waved campaign flags for former President Donald Trump.
One sign said “FJB” in an apparent abbreviation of “F–k Joe Biden.”
“A less coded version just outright said ‘F–k you Biden’ with the U in the F word cleverly drawn to look like a middle finger,” reported White House pool correspondent Todd Gillman of the Dallas Morning News.
“A real middle finger attached to a somewhat rough-looking middle-age man with a beard was upraised as motorcade passed,” Gillman added.
Wow, that's first class. Why does it please you when civil discourse continues to bottom out? This doesn't say anything about Joe Biden, it says something about how revolting the base Trump voter is. Are you a base Trump voter?
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
President Biden received an ugly welcome in the Land of 10,000 Lakes on Tuesday when his motorcade passed dozens of protesters who held vulgar signs dissing the commander-in-chief.
Some of the demonstrators waved campaign flags for former President Donald Trump.
One sign said “FJB” in an apparent abbreviation of “F–k Joe Biden.”
“A less coded version just outright said ‘F–k you Biden’ with the U in the F word cleverly drawn to look like a middle finger,” reported White House pool correspondent Todd Gillman of the Dallas Morning News.
“A real middle finger attached to a somewhat rough-looking middle-age man with a beard was upraised as motorcade passed,” Gillman added.
Wow, awesome! I'm always impressed by the savvy, clever, and highly intelligent Trump supporters who wave "Fuck Biden" flags. Thank you so much for posting this incredibly inspiring information. God Bless Donald Trump.
,,,and other such bullshit, ad nauseam.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
President Biden received an ugly welcome in the Land of 10,000 Lakes on Tuesday when his motorcade passed dozens of protesters who held vulgar signs dissing the commander-in-chief.
Some of the demonstrators waved campaign flags for former President Donald Trump.
One sign said “FJB” in an apparent abbreviation of “F–k Joe Biden.”
“A less coded version just outright said ‘F–k you Biden’ with the U in the F word cleverly drawn to look like a middle finger,” reported White House pool correspondent Todd Gillman of the Dallas Morning News.
“A real middle finger attached to a somewhat rough-looking middle-age man with a beard was upraised as motorcade passed,” Gillman added.
Hillary who versus POOTWH supporters, compare and contrast.
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,718
President BIden's approach to deal with the Russian threats to the Ukraine is so right on! Working with our European allies to put pressure on Russia makes so much more sense than the usual call to arms reaction. Well done, Mr. President!
(There will be more on this in Heather Cox Richardson's Letter to Americans when Mickeyrat posts it. Good read.)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
President BIden's approach to deal with the Russian threats to the Ukraine is so right on! Working with our European allies to put pressure on Russia makes so much more sense than the usual call to arms reaction. Well done, Mr. President!
(There will be more on this in Heather Cox Richardson's Letter to Americans when Mickeyrat posts it. Good read.)
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,779
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
BuT
bUt
BuT....
lEt'S gO BrAnDoN!!!!!
lEt'S gO bRaNdOn??
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
I'm with you on Saudi Arabia. Lose Lose situation. I hope the threat of sanctions works for Russia. I fear what will happen if Putin actually just says fuck it and still decides to make it a military action. For now Biden's move seems to be the right choice, provided Putin sees reason.
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
I'm with you on Saudi Arabia. Lose Lose situation. I hope the threat of sanctions works for Russia. I fear what will happen if Putin actually just says fuck it and still decides to make it a military action. For now Biden's move seems to be the right choice, provided Putin sees reason.
putin needs to realize this is chess. not fucking "go fish" like he used to play with trump.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
I'm with you on Saudi Arabia. Lose Lose situation. I hope the threat of sanctions works for Russia. I fear what will happen if Putin actually just says fuck it and still decides to make it a military action. For now Biden's move seems to be the right choice, provided Putin sees reason.
putin needs to realize this is chess. not fucking "go fish" like he used to play with trump.
What are you talking about? I thought Trump used to play 4D chess?
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
I'm with you on Saudi Arabia. Lose Lose situation. I hope the threat of sanctions works for Russia. I fear what will happen if Putin actually just says fuck it and still decides to make it a military action. For now Biden's move seems to be the right choice, provided Putin sees reason.
putin needs to realize this is chess. not fucking "go fish" like he used to play with trump.
What are you talking about? I thought Trump used to play 4D chess?
In all his brilliant brilliance of brilliancy, Kasparov like in his cunning.
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
I'm with you on Saudi Arabia. Lose Lose situation. I hope the threat of sanctions works for Russia. I fear what will happen if Putin actually just says fuck it and still decides to make it a military action. For now Biden's move seems to be the right choice, provided Putin sees reason.
putin needs to realize this is chess. not fucking "go fish" like he used to play with trump.
What are you talking about? I thought Trump used to play 4D chess?
maybe it was connect 4?
i can see trump saying something like "pretty sneaky, vlad" when putin would somehow get four red checkers lined up in a row.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,279
edited December 2021
Joe might be starting to come out of his slump. Average disapproval down about 2% and approval up 1% over the last few weeks. Starting to see more polling with him in the upper 40's lately...
Fuck Joe Manchin. Strip him of his committee assignments and slow walk or eliminate all federal dollars to WV. Let a repub be a repub and let them do nothing for three years. Let ‘Muricans live in a fascist state.
Fuck Joe Manchin. Strip him of his committee assignments and slow walk or eliminate all federal dollars to WV. Let a repub be a repub and let them do nothing for three years. Let ‘Muricans live in a fascist state.
You do that, and he may switch parties. Then we lose all chairs.
Comments
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I'd like to provide more evidence as to why I think America is more conservative today than in the sixties.
To your first point, I 100% agree with you that the 60's opened the door to gay marriage and acceptance of gay, lesbian, bi population in this country. Without the groundbreaking counterculture changes to the 'norms', we would not be where we are today. But I don't think that much of America begrudgingly accepts it. I think it's legitimately accepted by the majority. According to this gallup poll from the summer 70%! support it. As late as the 90's, it was only 27%. This is an amazing change. REmember in 2008, not even Obama supported it. Biden actually paved that path for him. https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486/record-high-support-same-sex-marriage.aspx
Now your other point is even more interesting. I agree that religious people tend to have larger families. However, the birth rate in this country continues to fall, as does the number of people who consider themselves religious and go to church. I can't link a photo here, but the link it to survey data from two years ago. People who consider themselves Christian is falling, while unaffiliated is rising. https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/
Is it possible that your view of this is skewed by your surroundings? If I'm not mistaken, you grew up in teh most liberal area in the country during the height of the 60s, but now you live in rural Trump country.
www.headstonesband.com
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
www.headstonesband.com
My father's stories often were about how he and his brother grew up without a father and how their mother had a hard time working (when she could find work) and raising those boys on so little. They were so poor, as a young boy my father and a friend of his went around town scavenging any little scraps of metal he could find to turn into for a few cents at the scrap yard. Then later, at night, he would crawl under the fence and threw a few of the scraps of metal back over the fence to his buddy who would later turn them back in again for a few more cents. As an old man telling me these things, he wasn't proud of the theft. He was proud of the cleverness his young little self to help his and his friend's starving families.
Maybe this country needs another worst hard time. Sorry to say, it's coming, regardless.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
So much for “Minnesota nice.”
President Biden received an ugly welcome in the Land of 10,000 Lakes on Tuesday when his motorcade passed dozens of protesters who held vulgar signs dissing the commander-in-chief.
Some of the demonstrators waved campaign flags for former President Donald Trump.
One sign said “FJB” in an apparent abbreviation of “F–k Joe Biden.”
“A less coded version just outright said ‘F–k you Biden’ with the U in the F word cleverly drawn to look like a middle finger,” reported White House pool correspondent Todd Gillman of the Dallas Morning News.
“A real middle finger attached to a somewhat rough-looking middle-age man with a beard was upraised as motorcade passed,” Gillman added.
Probably the same assholes that came into the city and burned the police station down
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
1. He announced that we would not be sending diplomats to China, to protest the human rights abuses. Because he's an actual leader, several western countries are now following suit. I expect even more. I like this middle ground because I would not support a full boycott like in 1980. This is a good compromise position.
2. Call with Putin to lay out the potential economic sanctions to come. Most importantly, the work with allies to get them on board to do the same. When you deal with oligarchs, you hit them where it hurts. Russia is a poor country, with a GDP much smaller than CA. They need the international market. This won't be easy since much of eastern Europe, specifically Germany, gets its natural gas from Russia. IF he pulls this off and de-escalates, it will be a master stroke. And no one but wonks will notice...
3. Supported the arms sale to Saudi Arabia, which passed the senate like 2-1. This is a tough one for me, because I hate SA and I think their war on Yeman is criminal. At the same time, if we don't provide them with missiles, they will lose refineries to Iranian backed Houthis who have been targeting the refineries. And I only care about that because it affects oil prices.
Also, oil is down to like $65 a barrel. Gas is under $3 here in VA. So I think things will continue to fall, coupled with great job numbers and a GDP that is estimated between 6-9%!!! I think by the spring, the narrative on teh economy will be much different.
shut your mouth. he's a feeble minded fool.....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
bUt
BuT....
lEt'S gO BrAnDoN!!!!!
lEt'S gO bRaNdOn??
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
i can see trump saying something like "pretty sneaky, vlad" when putin would somehow get four red checkers lined up in a row.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-approval-rating/?cid=rrpromo
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©