New RS Best 500 Albums - Just One PJ record?

kaw753

demetrios said:

Totally shocked it's ranked at 160. 

Wait, Black is about romantic disappointment? I learn something new every day because I thought it was about child molestation.

mschostok

I'm personally not a fan of the list. I don't see how Sgt. Pepper's, one of the most acclaimed, if not the most acclaimed, albums in history could be No. 1 in 2012 and then drop to No 24 or whatever 8 years later. Then, at the same time, have Marvin Gaye's What's Going On? be #6 or something 2012 and now (at the worst social, civil, and racial unrest since 1968) move up to No. 1 while at the same time Taylor Swift being ranked ahead of Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, and numerous Beatles albums? Idk, just seems like it's trying to fit in with the times. Just my two cents. 

Edit: Marvin Gaye's album is in fact one of the greatest musical achievements in history and it's def a top 5 album, but no. 1?

vedpunk

Tim Simmons said:

The bottom line is, a big reason you don't like Rolling Stone because they have some PJ O'Rourke features that are left leaning, so you appear to be painting everything they do with that brush. 

Sorry Tim Simmons, you can't always divide and label people and make generalizations to prove a point. Politically, I am more left leaning but it doesn't mean I blindly follow everything from one side.  I will accept that you probably can't have this type of conversation based on your rudimentary comments and generalizations.  Not everything is black and white and you shouldn't fear the in-between.  The RS list is an overcorrection.  Changes were definitely warranted but is overcorrecting a lack of music diversity by removing entire perceived "unwoke" genres the right thing? Is that called unwoke woke? 

Tim Simmons

Thats fine. NBD. But you came in throwing "woke" around as a pejorative. 

HughFreakingDillon

how the hell did a rolling stone article about the best all time albums turn into fucking politics??? and in 3 goddamn pages, no less?

Tim Simmons

HughFreakingDillon said:

how the hell did a rolling stone article about the best all time albums turn into fucking politics??? and in 3 goddamn pages, no less?

Since the first page, this thread has had the whiff of "rock-onomic anxiety". Just snowballed from there.

Tim Simmons

Found a list of the first 50 albums (outside of that, rankings become pointless -  " this isn't a 102nd best album of all time, this should is more of an 85th!"). 

Seems fine. Didn't see any album that didn't deserve to be recognized as great. It did make me think that RS is making a play for Pitchfork credibility. But other than getting people to talk about specific records, any list is pretty pointless.

Tim Simmons

This is an interesting stat that could lead to some interesting discussions. 

15 artists have 4 or more albums on the list:

• The Beatles: 9
• Bob Dylan: 7
• Kanye West: 6
• Neil Young: 6
• The Rolling Stones: 6
• Bruce Springsteen: 5
• David Bowie: 5
• Led Zeppelin: 5
• Aretha Franklin: 4
• Joni Mitchell: 4
• Pink Floyd: 4
• Radiohead: 4
• Stevie Wonder: 4
• The Velvet Underground: 4
• The Who: 4

Only 2 artists from the post 80s? I'm guessing none of the other 13 have an album post 1970s except maybe Dylan's Time Outta Mind? Maybe One of those Bruce or Neil records?



  

igotid88

kaw753 said:

demetrios said:

Totally shocked it's ranked at 160. 

Wait, Black is about romantic disappointment? I learn something new every day because I thought it was about child molestation.

How did you get child molestation from "Black"?

BF25394

I get that the voting panel and the RS editorial staff are different groups, but RS has given every Springsteen album for the last 20 years a rave review.  (They've also raved about every U2 album of the 21st century.)  It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Wrecking Ball, The Rising, Western Stars or a couple of others on this list (both because RS lavishly praised those albums and because those albums deserved it-- The Rising is one of the finest artistic responses to the 9/11 attacks that anyone has achieved).

By the way, anyone commenting on this thread should be sure to read https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/voters-500-greatest-albums-list-1062225/.  Also, note that the panel of voters is different than the panel that voted on the previous list so, when Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band goes from No. 1 to No. 24, it makes more sense when you realize that different cohorts of people is voting.

For the record, I prefer Abbey Road to every other Beatles album, but if you include Strawberry Fields Forever and Penny Lane as part of Sgt. Pepper's, for which they were originally recorded, then Sgt. Pepper's might take it.  You know you're a great album when two of the best singles of all time are left off of you and you're still considered one of the 25 best albums ever.

BF25394

Tim Simmons said:

Thats fine. NBD. But you came in throwing "woke" around as a pejorative. 

For some people-- and not only people on the right-- it is a pejorative.  For some people, it's a marker of a kind of identity politics that those people believe is actually counterproductive to the goal of achieving social and political equality for people regardless of race, gender, etc.  Personally, I'm most offended by the term because it is grammatically incorrect.  Stay awake.  See, that's so much better.

rummy

HughFreakingDillon said:

how the hell did a rolling stone article about the best all time albums turn into fucking politics??? and in 3 goddamn pages, no less?

...because the change very well may be political - and the magazine has always has a political slant to it, no?

Tim Simmons

Why does everyone assume a fix is in and that it had nothing to do with things changing in 10 years or who they asked to contribute?

CP218430

A few issues with the list: 

1. Albums that aren't over ten years old need a grace period. I actually just listened To Pimp a Butterfly this past week and just cause I don't quite get it doesn't mean it's not solid. But it's not old enough to warrant that rating. Let the albums marinate. 

2. Greatest Hits, Anthology and Live Albums shouldn't be on greatest albums. It's a different kind of litmus. I get having a Robert Johnson Anthology his music belongs (like Woody Guthrie although he's not on there I don't think) but albums are beasts unto themselves. 

3. When I was a kid I think 96 Rolling Stone did an awesome job of 500 best albums but they divvied it up by decade with no rankings. I loved it because you perused the 50's-90's and checked out things you've never heard. Nothing was divisive because it was just a list of great music. You're not asked to compare Pet Sounds, What's Going On and/or Abbey Road....I don't think you can compare those albums along side one another. They're all master pieces. And the 90's had very few albums. 

I love lists. I love albums. And looking at it makes me listen to stuff I haven't dug.

rummy

Tim Simmons said:

Why does everyone assume a fix is in and that it had nothing to do with things changing in 10 years or who they asked to contribute?

I don’t disagree with this at all. I’m just pissed that my tastes/history are being phased out! 

Tim Simmons

Lots of tunes out there if you want to welcome them in. 

Some of my favorite albums of all time (for a 42 yo dude) came out in the last 10 years. 

Tim Simmons

You’re a big Radiohead dude, you checking out stuff of the areas where they push? Flying Lotus, Four Tet, Burial? 

rummy

Tim Simmons said:

You’re a big Radiohead dude, you checking out stuff of the areas where they push? Flying Lotus, Four Tet, Burial? 

Yes. Radiohead did relatively well here. I’m actually surprised The Bends was still there as that one has seemed to fall out of favour a bit over the last decade.

I’ll check out those other bands. Thanks!

vedpunk

VS should be on this list.  Checks all the boxes:

- Cultural impact
- Sales records at the time (most sales 1st week, almost a million)
- Hit singles (both radio and sales)
- Songs celebrated in concert over the past 25 years and still to this day
- Lyrics relevant today more than ever (Ex. WMA)
- No filler: masterpiece from front to back
- Contains two of Tom Morello’s favorite songs (Animal and Indifference)
- Jaded Hipster journalists hate to admit that it was an epic album because it was at the height of PJ’s popularity and the Nirvana rivalry. (Fuckem)

Ya think they could have made room on the list?  Maybe make Harry F’ing Styles wait a few more years or move a couple Best Of Albums off?  Good lord people, let’s not fall for this garbage that their spewing. 

mrussel1

vedpunk said:

VS should be on this list.  Checks all the boxes:

- Cultural impact
- Sales records at the time (most sales 1st week, almost a million)
- Hit singles (both radio and sales)
- Songs celebrated in concert over the past 25 years and still to this day
- Lyrics relevant today more than ever (Ex. WMA)
- No filler: masterpiece from front to back
- Contains two of Tom Morello’s favorite songs (Animal and Indifference)
- Jaded Hipster journalists hate to admit that it was an epic album because it was at the height of PJ’s popularity and the Nirvana rivalry. (Fuckem)

Ya think they could have made room on the list?  Maybe make Harry F’ing Styles wait a few more years or move a couple Best Of Albums off?  Good lord people, let’s not fall for this garbage that their spewing. 

Yeah!  I’m mad too!

CP218430

Yeah, in many ways if you're going best album Vs beats Ten, thus it's at least 160. 

BALLBOY

Remember they didn't put Mike or Stone in their top 100 guitarist poll twice so we know what RS can be used for 

mookeywrench

Yeesh, what a mess.

I file this attempt under, 'try to please everyone and you'll please no one.'

No clue if music lists even have relevancy these days. 

It's free, no need to prioritize a budget

There's plenty of sources to discover it, no need to be dependent or feel only a few sources have authority to determine what's good.

Don't come across very many listeners who feel their tastes need to be validated by a list anymore. I feel like that was a pre-internet thing.

igotid88

We should be blaming the artists and producers and executives who actually did the voting

1ThoughtKnown

I’m really sick of “lists”. It’s all clickbait bullshit on YouTube and the rest of the net. 

The only list that matters is my own and it’s a solid album. Haven’t listened to it in a long time, but I hear plenty of it on Sirius/XM

HughFreakingDillon

it's really just fluff reading. people read too much into, and take offense of, these lists. it's meant for light hearted debate and not much more. 

mookeywrench

igotid88 said:

We should be blaming the artists and producers and executives who actually did the voting

Nah, probably 1500 plus submissions came forward via voting. Then editors cherry picked for the end result.

cp3iverson

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

Nevermind is way over rated at #6.  Kind of Blue should be in the top ten.  It's as epic, original and astounding today as it was 60 years ago.  I think Exile is under rated at 14.  I don't have any problem with Ten being the only PJ record in the list.  Pet Sounds is over rated too.  

honestly, for the first time a couple years ago when i got apple music i gave pet sounds a shot. i couldn't believe i was hearing what people keep calling a masterpiece. i didn't like it one bit. 

KP278376

Bob Mayo on the keyboards Bob said:

List seems a little too intentionally woke... 

This.

pjpjpaul

Pet Sounds is one of those albums I listen to primarily to appreciate Brian Wilson's producing abilities. There is a lot of interesting stuff going on sonically and even if I don't personally like it as much as say a few Beatles albums, I do realize how significant a leap forward it was for the band and recording industry as a whole and it influenced a lot of people (including The Beatles). With that being said, a lot of mid tempo, non guitar oriented baroque orchestration and unique instrumental choices that are not every day listening material for me.