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George Floyd Protests

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    Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript
    The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

    If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.
    I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

    Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.
    Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

    I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

    He will get off.
    He’ll get off because the one clean cut charge yet to be challenged, and might have been under appeal, was the gun possession charge. Thanks judge activist.
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,087
    Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript
    The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

    If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.
    I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

    Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.
    Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

    I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

    He will get off.
    how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 
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    Acblock4life said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    maybe a mistrial and retrial in front of a less prejudiced judge would be better for everyone.
    Self defense is still self defense no matter which judge is presiding.

    the key is going to be the first victim. the 2nd hit him with the skateboard. the first did not and he was unarmed. kyle knows he was unarmed and he shot him 4 times. if you have an ar-15 and someone is unarmed, how is your life in danger? the crowd came after him after the first victim because he was an active shooter that just shot and killed someone.

    you cannot claim self defense if your actions put you in the position to need to use deadly force. the prosecutor argued that beautifully.
    Hmm, he was actively running away from him though, and only really fired when he realised the guy had gained too much pace on him and he wasn't going to get away, so he either faced a beating or having his gun taken from him and potentially used against himself.  If the argument is that he should have in the split moment accepted a beating, which reasonably still could have ended in his death (plenty of people are killed in fistfights, after all) I don't think many people if they had a gun in their hand would choose a beating.

    To make it clear, I don't think Rittenhouse had any business being there that night, regardless of how noble his declared intentions may have been in terms of administering first aid, putting out fires etc.  I think it's pretty clear he had a very naive, childlike attitude towards the situation, and he very quickly found himself in a situation he clearly wasn't prepared for.  I think he thought the fact that he had a gun meant nobody would fuck with him, so when a crazy dude started chasing him completely unphased, even when Rittenhouse turned and pointed the gun at him, panic well and truly set in and he did what he had to do to defend himself in the moment.  

    You also used the term active shooter, which I think is a bit of a stretch, at that point he had shot one person, in what was arguably a self-defence situation, then got chased by a hostile crowd.  He wasn't arbitrarily shooting people, in each incidence these individuals engaged with him in acts of aggression.

    It's a difficult case, and I can certainly understand why people have no sympathy for him.  There's a huge politically charged narrative to the riots, and definitely a perceived right-wing element to anyone who tried to stand up against those protesting/rioting.  But if you take all that narrative away, what transpired, demonstrably fulfils the definition of self-defence, as I understand it.  The prosecution's point is absolutely null and void, the defence only have to prove that Rittenhouse feared the aggressor was about to commit an unlawful interference with his person.


    There were plenty of armed citizens during all of these 2020 riots but this situation didn't happen anywhere else. I think Rosenbaum saw how young and innocent Rittenhouse looked and chose to go after him because of that. Specifically in Kenosha, there were plenty of much bigger guys with guns that didn't get attacked. That is what bullies do. They go after the weakest of the bunch.

    In regards to your first point, the prosecutor said that Rittenhouse should've allowed Rosenbaum to beat him up instead of shooting him. If Rosenbaum had gotten his hands on Rittenhouse and disarmed him, we will never know what would've happened. What we do know is that Rosenbaum was one sick f*ck and had a violent past.

    I saw a comment on a youtube video about the case referring to Rittenhouse as being like Forrest Gump's kid, and I couldn't help but laugh at how accurate the description was.  Very childlike, nowhere near savvy enough to navigate a situation like that, and absolutely a sitting target.

    In terms of Rosenbaum, it takes a special type of crazy to run after an armed individual, regardless of how young and ineffective they look - not even a gun aimed at him was going to stop him from trying to attack Rittenhouse.  


    I'd argue the nowhere near savvy to navigate a situation like that. He only shot the ones that were attacking him. At any point, he could've opened fire on the whole crowd but knew not to do that. He tried running away from Rosenbaum before having to shoot him. He could've shot as soon as Rosenbaum started running at him but he tried to do the right thing. He also had his chance to fire at Grosskreutz but didn't until he was an immediate danger to him. Rittenhouse has some serious self control. Some cops with full training wouldn't be able to navigate a situation like this.

    I was more referring to the general situation.  During cross-examination, he didn't really seem to understand how his mere presence whilst carrying a gun would be perceived as extremely antagonistic, and that it would contradict his claims that he was there to administer first aid etc.  He was visually displaying mixed signals, and that made him very vulnerable.

    I agree in terms of the other points you made, I think it's fairly clear that he only used force when he realised he had no other way to protect himself.
    He had no right being there. I hope they fry him.
    Objectively, he had the same right as anyone else that night.  However, he was essentially a child trying to act as a police officer/fireman/medic using a gun to assert himself in a very volatile situation.  Like I said earlier, I think he thought the fact he was carrying the gun would be enough to stop anyone from messing with him, and hadn't thought what he would do if someone challenged that notion.  This was pretty much evident when he ran from an unarmed guy who showed aggression towards him.  A more powerfully built, confident or world wary individual may have engaged in a fistfight, but this was a baby faced, home-schooled cause he was bullied, kid. 
    Yes I was previously objective but you members who only show up once in a while don’t bother to get to know who you’re responding to. 

    Oh and this “child” is a coward POS. 
    What do you feel I need to know about you in order for you to remain objective?

    He was a child at 17, I don't know what to say, kids make horrible decisions all the time, that's why there are laws restricting certain things like voting, drinking, owning weapons etc.

    The case really isn't about whether he should have been there or not though, these are all just opinions.  The case in the eyes of the law is strictly regarding his perceived danger in those moments and the subsequent force he used.
      
    Come on….this whole case and pretty much everything that happens in this country is politicized now. I’m sure many people on here know where I stand and how I feel about the left and right.  If you knew that/me from years of posting you would have known I was being objective.  But in all fairness you didn’t jump all over me, and neither did Lindamarie, it was the BJ or JB guy or girl who got BW t out of shape 
    I think you're right about the politicization of everything, and this one is interesting because the riots/protests were a reaction to a black man being shot, and yet all the individuals, in this case, were white, yet it seems it's still perceived through that particular lens.  My take is that ultimately the law is meant to be an objective standard, which protects everyone, and therefore I think that should be the guide.  With that in mind, given the clear evidence, I can reconcile my beliefs that Rittenhouse is both morally wrong for being there, but was within his rights to defend himself.

    I genuinely don't understand your point about you thinking you were/are being objective.  Tell me what your political leaning is if you think that would help my understanding of your view, or, you know, don't, whatever.....  As I've gotten older I've mostly stepped away from getting into heated exchanges with strangers online, but this case piqued my interest because I felt conflicted about what the hell this kid was doing there in the first place and his right to defend himself.  So far I've not really encountered anything to challenge my feelings, but I'm totally open to enlightenment :)    

      
    I was trying to be objective by asking for the source rather than just repeating the alleged story of his mother taking him to the riot that,  to be honest, I only heard/read about on here.  

    The fact that I believe everything is politicized may show you that I’m not a democrat or a republican.  I vote my conscience.  

    And your belief that the law is meant to be objective is great if it only worked that way. Today’s release of the wrongfully convicted gentleman who spent more than two decades in jail for NOT killing Malcolm X is proof that the justice system is barely just at all.  


     No doubt I view things differently and can be very honest about how I feel about things.  Am I glad there’s one less pedaphile in the world, yes. Do I agree with carrying guns in public, no. Am I against the 2nd amendment, no. Do I own a gun, yes.  Do I hate Donald trump, yes.  Do I hate all republicans, no.  I planned on voting for trump when he first started campaigning then his grotesque personality reared its ugly head.  And he’s a spoiled pig whom all women should not respect.  
    So I’m in the middle where I prefer to think of it as not wearing my rose colored glasses but being realistic while being morally sound. 
    We all agree he was wrong, we all don’t agree that he is guilty due to self defense.  And if that’s the law then fine. Just don’t pretend that Justice is just because it’s not. 
    And this all started because someone assumed I was being an ass rather than taking the time to see if I was even following this post for two days, which I wasn’t.  It’s called truth. That’s all I ask from people who post is to be honest. 
    I hear what you're saying with regards to the law, it's very far from perfect, but it's pretty much all a society has in terms of applying any kind of justice, surely better that than the court of public opinion?  If the burden of proving self-defence was much more stringent, then I think there would be a stronger case against him, but from my understanding, his defence just need to prove that in the moment he feared for his own life - I'm not sure the chain of events, no matter who instigated the situation will ultimately be deemed all that relevant.  At the end of the day you had a guy running away, and it was logical that his fear was amplified when the unarmed attacker was not phased by the gun.  Rosenbaum gave Rittenhouse no real option to de-escalate the situation, and yet Rittenhosue clearly was trying to do that by running.

    I've many conflicting feelings about the case, particularly being British, the open gun carrying aspect seems like a disaster waiting to happen, but I've come to realise that it's pointless looking at the situation through the eyes of someone brought up in a country where guns are not common place.

    I think I'll probably hold back on commenting any further, at least until the verdict is announced.  It's been interesting reading through the different opinions though.
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript
    The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

    If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.
    I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

    Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.
    Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

    I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

    He will get off.
    how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 
    Just what I was thinking
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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,339
    static111 said:
    Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript
    The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

    If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.
    I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

    Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.
    Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

    I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

    He will get off.
    how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 
    Just what I was thinking

    Zimmerman put himself in that situation....
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,087
    Ok, the wording was confusing....
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,719
    DewieCox said:
    Prosecutor has been a joke, Judge has been a joke, and if he walks away scot free it will be a joke. He’s a little psycho bastard but I don’t think there was a ever a great case for charges as stiff as he got, but still plenty of evidence to prove some heavy charges.
    +1 

    No disrespect intended..  the situation to begin with in my opinion was like watching a bizarro world of pure shite unfolding for all to see. Like a huge poop wave building and building and then crashing. 

    This trial is like the same thing.  I think the prosecution has been focusing on 'some' good things to help it's case, but also a handful of issues that read like plot holes in an otherwise tight novel. I saw the prosecutor say something along the lines of, 'he had the gun, he was the agitator, you can't claim self defence when you have a gun.'  I thought to myself...    well.... that's fucking stupid. The armed vs. unarmed creates mitigating and litigating factors, but as a lawyer to make such a dumb statement was baffling. 

    All in all... I can comfortably say that this would have never, ever happened in Canada. And that makes me happy. Again no disrespect intended, just shows that common sense laws seem to have been proven correct here. 

    That some people... actually.. seemingly quite a few people in America think it's perfectly fine to gear up, arm yourself with an AR-15, and walk around town as some vigilante peacekeeper during a protest is just mind boggling. 

    One would have  hoped that a sensible judge, a sensible government would be able to look at this whole scenario and say "OK folks, timeout, we need to have a serious talk about this stuff."  Alas, here we are. 
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,719
    I've heard some contradicting things about this Rittenhouse thing that perhaps you good folks can help clear up... 

    Was he legally allowed to be carrying that gun?   Prosecution said it needed to be purchased by someone else in order for him to to have it, which screams to me that if he was walking around with a gun that he couldn't legally purchase, wouldn't it be illegal? 

    But it got my thinking of local cigarette laws... minors can't buy them, but they can smoke them.  
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,042
    mace1229 said:
    i have a feeling this ends in a hung jury. 

    it has been too politicized and people's opinions are too deeply entrenched for 12 people to be objective about it.
    very possible...I can't imagine all 12 agreeing to even reckless endangerment
    If thats the case, is the whole trial a hung jury, or just the charges they don't agree on?
    i believe they can be hung on some charges and they can convict or acquit on others.

    the problem is if the jury hangs on all of them he cannot be tried again.
    I have a question, why can’t they retry him?  I thought double jeopardy only applied if they acquitted him?  If it’s hung on first degree, 2nd, you know the murder charges, they can’t retry? This is all so confusing!  
    I always thought they can retry him on any charges that are not unanimous not guilty. 
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,087
    Parksy said:
    I've heard some contradicting things about this Rittenhouse thing that perhaps you good folks can help clear up... 

    Was he legally allowed to be carrying that gun?   Prosecution said it needed to be purchased by someone else in order for him to to have it, which screams to me that if he was walking around with a gun that he couldn't legally purchase, wouldn't it be illegal? 

    But it got my thinking of local cigarette laws... minors can't buy them, but they can smoke them.  
    someone above mentioned something about this in the last page or two. 
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,042
    edited November 2021
    Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript
    The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

    If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.
    I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

    Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.
    Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

    I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

    He will get off.
    I would think self defense still applies. If he pointed the gun, that was still several minutes before the shooting. I would think Rosenbaum only has the right to threaten him in the immediate aftermath. Once Rittenhouse fleas and is no longer an immediate threat, Rosenbaum should give up the chase and not corner and continue to threaten him. Like if someone breaks into my house, if I feel in danger I can defend myself. I cant chase him down the street and 5 minutes later and threaten his life and expect to be protected by the law. 
    Rittenhouse probably deserves some endangerment or threatening with a deadly weapon charge, but I still see self defense applying. 
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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,318
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Options
    cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 1,440
    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Exactly!  I said the same about the medic that survived.  Medics don’t usually carry guns and they definitely don’t run after active shooters, and people with guns in that situation aren’t usually looking to shoot those rendering aid.  If that’s why he was there and that’s what he said then why take the gun. 
  • Options
    cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 1,440
    edited November 2021
    Prosecutor doing an excellent job in the Arbery case.  Rittenhouse may get off but so far I think the shooter in the Arbery case should not have testified.  She set him up many times and he fell for it….IMO
  • Options
    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,130
    The defendants in the Arbery case don't seem worried....they should be

    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
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  • Options
    Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript
    The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

    If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.
    I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

    Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.
    Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

    I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

    He will get off.
    how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 
    Did Treyvon shoot anyone?  No  That George person did.  Should have worded that better.
  • Options
    static111 said:
    Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript
    The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

    If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.
    I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

    Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.
    Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

    I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

    He will get off.
    how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 
    Just what I was thinking
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    Transcript of prosecution’s closing argument. If you’re open minded, it’s pretty damning.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-prosecution-closing-statement-transcript
    The prosecutor slows down the video and explains it step by step like it happened for 3 minutes when in reality it took less than one. That is good prosecuting.

    If they can actually prove that he pointed the gun at people then he goes to jail.  It doesn't seem like that was established though.
    I saw/heard witness testimony to that effect. Somebody walking by the auto store where he was standing with other armed folks. And yellow pants guy, who the prosecution claims wouldn’t have made that up, given all we know of the defendant’s behavior. In the video played during trial, from my perspective, rittenhouse appears to be walking around, chest pumped out, with swagger, with his gun, pointed it at some folks, and wasn’t prepared for then being challenged by unarmed protesters who were set off. As opposed to the armed protesters who were in physical confrontation with protesters at the gas station. Rittenhouse repeatedly lied during the events and had no explanation for why he was carrying the AR15 if he was there to help. He lacked credibility and his witness stand tears weren’t genuine, IMO. The other prosecutor witnesses were credible and didn’t appear to waiver or get flummoxed. Rittenhouse, when pressed, didn’t have answers. He was like a kid caught and trying to get out of it. Taking the stand was a mistake.

    Rittenhouse created the danger he put himself in and was not having his life threatened by Rosenbaum or the second or third assailants when he shot them. If I were a juror, I’d convict him on all four charges, based on the testimony and video evidence.
    Yes, if he points a weapon then he creates the scenario that unfolds.  That is where self-defense becomes a gray area but I don't think the jury convicts after rethinking this.  It would how they perceive the law and if prosecution explained it that way.

    I've flipped flopped on this after hearing more and more but it is like the Treyvon case, he put himself in the situation but had the right to defend himself.

    He will get off.
    how did Treyvon put himself in the situation? he was out buying skittles when a racist shot him dead. 
    Just what I was thinking

    Zimmerman put himself in that situation....
    Ok, the wording was confusing....
    Yes, sorry about that.
  • Options
    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct. 
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  • Options
    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct. 
    He fired 3 because it happened so quickly.  I mentioned that earlier that the prosecutor slowed it down and discussed that for 3 minutes where it happened in less than one second.  That is why he fired 3 shots.
  • Options
    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 18,130
    At a minimum he should be found guilty of reckless endangerment. 


    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,972
    edited November 2021
    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct. 
    He fired 3 because it happened so quickly.  I mentioned that earlier that the prosecutor slowed it down and discussed that for 3 minutes where it happened in less than one second.  That is why he fired 3 shots.
    That’s an excuse and doesn’t absolve him of his “responsibility.” Each shot required an individual pull of the trigger. And the “threat” was neutralized after the first shot, the kill shot, the last, was unnecessary and reckless.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct. 
    He fired 3 because it happened so quickly.  I mentioned that earlier that the prosecutor slowed it down and discussed that for 3 minutes where it happened in less than one second.  That is why he fired 3 shots.
    That’s an excuse and doesn’t absolve him of his “responsibility.” Each shot required an individual pull of the trigger. And the “threat” was neutralized after the first shot, the kill shot, the last, was unnecessary and reckless.
    He had no idea if the first shot was good enough or not.  Why would you even argue this?  it's moot.  


  • Options
    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct. 
    He fired 3 because it happened so quickly.  I mentioned that earlier that the prosecutor slowed it down and discussed that for 3 minutes where it happened in less than one second.  That is why he fired 3 shots.
    That’s an excuse and doesn’t absolve him of his “responsibility.” Each shot required an individual pull of the trigger. And the “threat” was neutralized after the first shot, the kill shot, the last, was unnecessary and reckless.
    He had no idea if the first shot was good enough or not.  Why would you even argue this?  it's moot.  


    Because it stopped the threat, making it drop to the ground. Maybe Rittenhouse should have learned threat assessment, fire control and discipline with a firearm before he decided to be a cop? Or was it medic? Or fireman? Or tough guy?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,318
    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct. 
    He fired 3 because it happened so quickly.  I mentioned that earlier that the prosecutor slowed it down and discussed that for 3 minutes where it happened in less than one second.  That is why he fired 3 shots.
    That’s an excuse and doesn’t absolve him of his “responsibility.” Each shot required an individual pull of the trigger. And the “threat” was neutralized after the first shot, the kill shot, the last, was unnecessary and reckless.
    He had no idea if the first shot was good enough or not.  Why would you even argue this?  it's moot.  


    Because it stopped the threat, making it drop to the ground. Maybe Rittenhouse should have learned threat assessment, fire control and discipline with a firearm before he decided to be a cop? Or was it medic? Or fireman? Or tough guy?
    Well, I'd argue no one is going to take one shot and reassess unless they're a long distance sniper or hunting game. I know Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there, but it's common knowledge you shoot to stop the threat and that means at least 2 shots if you're trained at all. If someone is coming at you, you're going to fire more than one shot.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Options
    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,271
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    maybe a mistrial and retrial in front of a less prejudiced judge would be better for everyone.
    Self defense is still self defense no matter which judge is presiding.

    if you have an ar-15 and someone is unarmed, how is your life in danger?


    Rosenbaum was verbally threatening to kill Rittenhouse. Rosenbaum lunged after Rittenhouse's gun to do just that. Rosenbaum was a threat to Rittenhouse(and the rest of the world I might add). I feel bad for the last 2 that were shot because maybe they did just assume they were trying to disarm a shooter but none of them should've been there in the first place.

    rosenbaum was a threat to the rest of the world?

    ok i am done here.
    Do you always defend sexual predators that anally rape 5 boys aged 9-11? https://inmatedatasearch.azcorrections.gov/PrintInmate.aspx?ID=172556

    I'm sorry but I don't have any respect for sexual predators.


    do you always radically over dramatize situations like this? obviously gimme wasn't defending him. saying he was a threat to 7 billion people is ludicrous. 
    Like I said, I have no respect for sexual predators.

    Rosenbaum was obviously a danger to society and I'm glad there's one less pedophile in the world.

    Edit: and for the record, Gimme was defending Rosenbaum.
    electronically rolling his eyes on your claim that rosenbaum was a threat to 7 billion people is defending him?

    that's quite a leap ya got there. you should play basketball. 
    Instead of arguing the point that what Rittenhouse did was in self defense, gimme ran away because I said Rosenbaum was a threat to the world. I was not referring to each of the 7 billion people but seeing that this guy had no boundaries, he could've done bad things to anyone in the world.
    he didn't run away. he's just been around here long enough to know when there's absolutely no point after a certain type of post. 
    thank you. this was more eloquent than i was initially going to write.

    nobody in the world is a threat to 7 billion people at the same time. the minute i saw that claim made i was done.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Options
    tbergstbergs Posts: 9,318
    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct. 
    Ok, well those that choose to run after the active shooter are definitely not choosing safety. Seems more like some sort of macho ego trip thinking you can take out the gunman in this instance. Trapped in a room with nowhere to hide and the shooter coming at you, yeah, I'll grab a stapler, scissors or anything else I can find, but let's not get delusional and qualify what Rosenbaum did as not dumb. Even if you want to try and call Rittenhouse an active shooter, that's not what a sane person should be doing. As we've learned though, Rosenbaum had his own issues.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Options
    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,271
    i saw gaetz  came out and said that the shooter is innocent and that his staff is looking at bringing him to dc to be an intern.

    disgusting. maybe he should have waited to make that offer until after he walks.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Options
    JB16057JB16057 Posts: 1,269
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    maybe a mistrial and retrial in front of a less prejudiced judge would be better for everyone.
    Self defense is still self defense no matter which judge is presiding.

    if you have an ar-15 and someone is unarmed, how is your life in danger?


    Rosenbaum was verbally threatening to kill Rittenhouse. Rosenbaum lunged after Rittenhouse's gun to do just that. Rosenbaum was a threat to Rittenhouse(and the rest of the world I might add). I feel bad for the last 2 that were shot because maybe they did just assume they were trying to disarm a shooter but none of them should've been there in the first place.

    rosenbaum was a threat to the rest of the world?

    ok i am done here.
    Do you always defend sexual predators that anally rape 5 boys aged 9-11? https://inmatedatasearch.azcorrections.gov/PrintInmate.aspx?ID=172556

    I'm sorry but I don't have any respect for sexual predators.


    do you always radically over dramatize situations like this? obviously gimme wasn't defending him. saying he was a threat to 7 billion people is ludicrous. 
    Like I said, I have no respect for sexual predators.

    Rosenbaum was obviously a danger to society and I'm glad there's one less pedophile in the world.

    Edit: and for the record, Gimme was defending Rosenbaum.
    electronically rolling his eyes on your claim that rosenbaum was a threat to 7 billion people is defending him?

    that's quite a leap ya got there. you should play basketball. 
    Instead of arguing the point that what Rittenhouse did was in self defense, gimme ran away because I said Rosenbaum was a threat to the world. I was not referring to each of the 7 billion people but seeing that this guy had no boundaries, he could've done bad things to anyone in the world.
    he didn't run away. he's just been around here long enough to know when there's absolutely no point after a certain type of post. 
    thank you. this was more eloquent than i was initially going to write.

    nobody in the world is a threat to 7 billion people at the same time. the minute i saw that claim made i was done.
    Except for Donald Trump right?

  • Options
    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    maybe a mistrial and retrial in front of a less prejudiced judge would be better for everyone.
    Self defense is still self defense no matter which judge is presiding.

    if you have an ar-15 and someone is unarmed, how is your life in danger?


    Rosenbaum was verbally threatening to kill Rittenhouse. Rosenbaum lunged after Rittenhouse's gun to do just that. Rosenbaum was a threat to Rittenhouse(and the rest of the world I might add). I feel bad for the last 2 that were shot because maybe they did just assume they were trying to disarm a shooter but none of them should've been there in the first place.

    rosenbaum was a threat to the rest of the world?

    ok i am done here.
    Do you always defend sexual predators that anally rape 5 boys aged 9-11? https://inmatedatasearch.azcorrections.gov/PrintInmate.aspx?ID=172556

    I'm sorry but I don't have any respect for sexual predators.


    do you always radically over dramatize situations like this? obviously gimme wasn't defending him. saying he was a threat to 7 billion people is ludicrous. 
    Like I said, I have no respect for sexual predators.

    Rosenbaum was obviously a danger to society and I'm glad there's one less pedophile in the world.

    Edit: and for the record, Gimme was defending Rosenbaum.
    electronically rolling his eyes on your claim that rosenbaum was a threat to 7 billion people is defending him?

    that's quite a leap ya got there. you should play basketball. 
    Instead of arguing the point that what Rittenhouse did was in self defense, gimme ran away because I said Rosenbaum was a threat to the world. I was not referring to each of the 7 billion people but seeing that this guy had no boundaries, he could've done bad things to anyone in the world.
    he didn't run away. he's just been around here long enough to know when there's absolutely no point after a certain type of post. 
    thank you. this was more eloquent than i was initially going to write.

    nobody in the world is a threat to 7 billion people at the same time. the minute i saw that claim made i was done.
    Except for Donald Trump right?

    Anyone who has the ability to use nuclear weapons fits into that category, but that’s a relatively small number of people that does not include Rosenbaum 

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    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.

    Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:

    According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”

    In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.

    19-year-old charged with illegally supplying gun to Kyle Rittenhouse (nbcnews.com)

    Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?

    Judge dismisses gun charge against Kyle Rittenhouse - Chicago Tribune

    Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.

    WISCONSIN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL

    But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.

    Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.

    Kyle Rittenhouse trial: Dominick Black, teen's friend, takes the stand (usatoday.com)

    You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
    I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
    Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct. 
    He fired 3 because it happened so quickly.  I mentioned that earlier that the prosecutor slowed it down and discussed that for 3 minutes where it happened in less than one second.  That is why he fired 3 shots.
    That’s an excuse and doesn’t absolve him of his “responsibility.” Each shot required an individual pull of the trigger. And the “threat” was neutralized after the first shot, the kill shot, the last, was unnecessary and reckless.
    He had no idea if the first shot was good enough or not.  Why would you even argue this?  it's moot.  


    Because it stopped the threat, making it drop to the ground. Maybe Rittenhouse should have learned threat assessment, fire control and discipline with a firearm before he decided to be a cop? Or was it medic? Or fireman? Or tough guy?
    Well, I'd argue no one is going to take one shot and reassess unless they're a long distance sniper or hunting game. I know Rittenhouse shouldn't have been there, but it's common knowledge you shoot to stop the threat and that means at least 2 shots if you're trained at all. If someone is coming at you, you're going to fire more than one shot.
    Okay, two shots. Third and fourth shots, the fourth being the kill shot, are fired as he’s lowering the barrel because the victim is dropping. Rittenhouse testified that he saw no weapons in his hands. He’s responsible for all four shots. I’ll excuse the first two.
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