Rittenhouse (autocorrect corrects it to Rotten House, makes me chuckle) raised his gun and pointed it at protesters, prior to Rosenbaum charging at him. That's a threat with a deadly weapon. What was Rosenbaum's threat? Being verbally abusive. Same-same? No, not even close. What have we all been told to do in an active, or potential active, shooter situation? Flee, hide or fight. What did Rosenbaum do? He chose to fight (try outrunning an AR15). Rittenhouse was an imminent threat. Rosenbaum decided to defend himself.
Rittenhouse wasn't old enough to possess the AR15. Its been argued ad-nauseam on these boards that illegal immigrants break the law the moment they cross the border illegally and as such are criminals and should be deported. Rittenhouse broke the law by being in possession of a firearm while underage. What right did he have to be present in illegal possession of a firearm? As opposed to Rosenbaum (regardless of his criminal history)? And, at the time he was threatened with imminent death, wasn't breaking the law, just exercising his freedom of speech? Particularly, in light of:
According to the criminal complaint, Black enlisted the help of Rittenhouse in guarding the Kenosha car dealership Car Source from property damage and looting. The complaint stated Black “volunteered to go out after curfew” and “asked Mr. Rittenhouse to join him.”
In interviews, the owner of Car Source has denied requesting help from either Black or Rittenhouse in protecting his dealership during the protests.
Wonder how all the repub constitutionalists on here feel about "interpretation" of the law by the judge and going against what the legislature intended?
Lots of confusion and potential for different interpretation when you take into account that Wisconsin law allows for more stringent federal regulation to govern. But that seemingly went "poof" with the judge's dropping of the charge. I don't know if Rittenhouse can face federal civil rights or criminal charges.
But for a judge's ruling on a loophole and not allowing the charge to be considered by the jury and Rittenhouse to appeal, he won the White Privilege Lottery. Rittenhouse knew he wasn't old enough to possess the AR15 as evidenced by his friend's, who bought it for him, testimony. The judge could have very easily allowed the charge to be considered. And you can't tell me that Rittenhouse found the loophole in the law and knew he could get away with being in illegal possession of a firearm if he were caught.
Black testified that shortly after he got an AR-15-style rifle, Rittenhouse expressed interest in one. During a trip to Black's family's hunting property in May 2020, Black agreed to buy a rifle for Rittenhouse, who was 17 and couldn't lawfully buy or possess one.
You don't have the right to instigate a confrontation that can potentially put your life or safety at risk, pointing a firearm, Rittenhouse, at someone who is not a current threat, protesters/Rosenbaum, and then claim self-defense when you indeed become threatened by the victim(s) of your instigation.
I highlighted that above statement because it's a misrepresentation of the active shooter response model. You only fight as a last resort, if cornered and unable to escape. If the guy with a gun is running away from you, don't run after him. That's just dumb. Anyway, just wanted to comment on that since I train our college in active shooter response and I would never tell anyone to chase the guy with a gun. Not your safest option.
Some people might choose to run after a perceived threat of an active shooter to prevent a perceived active shooter from having multiple victims. Not dumb at all. And why did Rittenhouse fire three more shots after the first disabling shot? Another “responsible” gun possessor who knew the capability of his weapon and exercised “responsible” usage. Why did Rosenbaum chase him? We’ll never know because he’s dead, because of Rittenhouse’s ir”responsible” actions and conduct.
Ok, well those that choose to run after the active shooter are definitely not choosing safety. Seems more like some sort of macho ego trip thinking you can take out the gunman in this instance. Trapped in a room with nowhere to hide and the shooter coming at you, yeah, I'll grab a stapler, scissors or anything else I can find, but let's not get delusional and qualify what Rosenbaum did as not dumb. Even if you want to try and call Rittenhouse an active shooter, that's not what a sane person should be doing. As we've learned though, Rosenbaum had his own issues.
Rittenhouse wasn’t trapped or cornered either. He could have kept running. It’s interesting to see the defense of a “responsible” gun possessor.
maybe a mistrial and retrial in front of a less prejudiced judge would be better for everyone.
Self defense is still self defense no matter which judge is presiding.
if you have an ar-15 and someone is unarmed, how is your life in danger?
Rosenbaum was verbally threatening to kill Rittenhouse. Rosenbaum lunged after Rittenhouse's gun to do just that. Rosenbaum was a threat to Rittenhouse(and the rest of the world I might add). I feel bad for the last 2 that were shot because maybe they did just assume they were trying to disarm a shooter but none of them should've been there in the first place.
I'm sorry but I don't have any respect for sexual predators.
do you always radically over dramatize situations like this? obviously gimme wasn't defending him. saying he was a threat to 7 billion people is ludicrous.
Like I said, I have no respect for sexual predators.
Rosenbaum was obviously a danger to society and I'm glad there's one less pedophile in the world.
Edit: and for the record, Gimme was defending Rosenbaum.
electronically rolling his eyes on your claim that rosenbaum was a threat to 7 billion people is defending him?
that's quite a leap ya got there. you should play basketball.
Instead of arguing the point that what Rittenhouse did was in self defense, gimme ran away because I said Rosenbaum was a threat to the world. I was not referring to each of the 7 billion people but seeing that this guy had no boundaries, he could've done bad things to anyone in the world.
he didn't run away. he's just been around here long enough to know when there's absolutely no point after a certain type of post.
thank you. this was more eloquent than i was initially going to write.
nobody in the world is a threat to 7 billion people at the same time. the minute i saw that claim made i was done.
Except for Donald Trump right?
Anyone who has the ability to use nuclear weapons fits into that category, but that’s a relatively small number of people that does not include Rosenbaum
I never said Rosenbaum was a threat to everyone on
the planet "at the same time". I was speaking figuratively. Rosenbaum has
done some heinous things and was a danger to many people. He obviously
had no boundaries and could've hurt anyone in the world because he was evil.
it has been too politicized and people's opinions are too deeply entrenched for 12 people to be objective about it.
very possible...I can't imagine all 12 agreeing to even reckless endangerment
If thats the case, is the whole trial a hung jury, or just the charges they don't agree on?
i believe they can be hung on some charges and they can convict or acquit on others.
the problem is if the jury hangs on all of them he cannot be tried again.
I have a question, why can’t they retry him? I thought double jeopardy only applied if they acquitted him? If it’s hung on first degree, 2nd, you know the murder charges, they can’t retry? This is all so confusing!
I always thought they can retry him on any charges that are not unanimous not guilty.
Thanks for responding….no one else responded so I looked it up and somewhere below in all the gibberish it should say if a mistrial enforces double jeopardy like an acquittal. From what I’ve read so far I’m going to guess that he can be retried unless they find him not guilty.
it has been too politicized and people's opinions are too deeply entrenched for 12 people to be objective about it.
very possible...I can't imagine all 12 agreeing to even reckless endangerment
If thats the case, is the whole trial a hung jury, or just the charges they don't agree on?
i believe they can be hung on some charges and they can convict or acquit on others.
the problem is if the jury hangs on all of them he cannot be tried again.
I have a question, why can’t they retry him? I thought double jeopardy only applied if they acquitted him? If it’s hung on first degree, 2nd, you know the murder charges, they can’t retry? This is all so confusing!
I always thought they can retry him on any charges that are not unanimous not guilty.
Thanks for responding….no one else responded so I looked it up and somewhere below in all the gibberish it should say if a mistrial enforces double jeopardy like an acquittal. From what I’ve read so far I’m going to guess that he can be retried unless they find him not guilty.
Think I found it so gimme is correct if I’m understanding below
“When a mistrial requested by the defendant is justified by prosecutorial or judicial overreaching intended to prompt the request, the double jeopardy clause bars reprosecution. State v. Harrell, 85 Wis. 2d 331, 270 N.W.2d 428 (Ct. App. 1978).”
maybe a mistrial and retrial in front of a less prejudiced judge would be better for everyone.
Self defense is still self defense no matter which judge is presiding.
if you have an ar-15 and someone is unarmed, how is your life in danger?
Rosenbaum was verbally threatening to kill Rittenhouse. Rosenbaum lunged after Rittenhouse's gun to do just that. Rosenbaum was a threat to Rittenhouse(and the rest of the world I might add). I feel bad for the last 2 that were shot because maybe they did just assume they were trying to disarm a shooter but none of them should've been there in the first place.
I'm sorry but I don't have any respect for sexual predators.
do you always radically over dramatize situations like this? obviously gimme wasn't defending him. saying he was a threat to 7 billion people is ludicrous.
Like I said, I have no respect for sexual predators.
Rosenbaum was obviously a danger to society and I'm glad there's one less pedophile in the world.
Edit: and for the record, Gimme was defending Rosenbaum.
electronically rolling his eyes on your claim that rosenbaum was a threat to 7 billion people is defending him?
that's quite a leap ya got there. you should play basketball.
Instead of arguing the point that what Rittenhouse did was in self defense, gimme ran away because I said Rosenbaum was a threat to the world. I was not referring to each of the 7 billion people but seeing that this guy had no boundaries, he could've done bad things to anyone in the world.
he didn't run away. he's just been around here long enough to know when there's absolutely no point after a certain type of post.
nobody in the world is a threat to 7 billion people at the same time. the minute i saw that claim made i was done.
maybe a mistrial and retrial in front of a less prejudiced judge would be better for everyone.
Self defense is still self defense no matter which judge is presiding.
if you have an ar-15 and someone is unarmed, how is your life in danger?
Rosenbaum was verbally threatening to kill Rittenhouse. Rosenbaum lunged after Rittenhouse's gun to do just that. Rosenbaum was a threat to Rittenhouse(and the rest of the world I might add). I feel bad for the last 2 that were shot because maybe they did just assume they were trying to disarm a shooter but none of them should've been there in the first place.
I'm sorry but I don't have any respect for sexual predators.
do you always radically over dramatize situations like this? obviously gimme wasn't defending him. saying he was a threat to 7 billion people is ludicrous.
Like I said, I have no respect for sexual predators.
Rosenbaum was obviously a danger to society and I'm glad there's one less pedophile in the world.
Edit: and for the record, Gimme was defending Rosenbaum.
electronically rolling his eyes on your claim that rosenbaum was a threat to 7 billion people is defending him?
that's quite a leap ya got there. you should play basketball.
Instead of arguing the point that what Rittenhouse did was in self defense, gimme ran away because I said Rosenbaum was a threat to the world. I was not referring to each of the 7 billion people but seeing that this guy had no boundaries, he could've done bad things to anyone in the world.
he didn't run away. he's just been around here long enough to know when there's absolutely no point after a certain type of post.
thank you. this was more eloquent than i was initially going to write.
nobody in the world is a threat to 7 billion people at the same time. the minute i saw that claim made i was done.
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I thought he was innocent of murder but he should have been convicted of a lesser crime.
I would have thought so this morning, but not after reading details on what the charges were.
COUNT 2: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
This was specific to the reported who was following Rosenbaum, saying he was in danger being close proximity to Rosenbaum. But if self defense against Rosenbaum was justified, then I don’t see you could convict on this.
COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Again, this was specific on a single individual. The “unknown” individual who kicked him seconds before he was hit with a skateboard. He fired on him and missed. Had he hit him and killed him, it would have been a murder charge, and a justified self defense. I said “unknown” because it sounds like the prosecution knew his identify but didn’t disclose it.
I don’t see how you could convict on those endangerment charges. Now if he did brandish his gun earlier that lead to him being chased, I would agree with that. But they never charged him with that.
I thought he was innocent of murder but he should have been convicted of a lesser crime.
I would have thought so this morning, but not after reading details on what the charges were.
COUNT 2: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
This was specific to the reported who was following Rosenbaum, saying he was in danger being close proximity to Rosenbaum. But if self defense against Rosenbaum was justified, then I don’t see you could convict on this.
COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Again, this was specific on a single individual. The “unknown” individual who kicked him seconds before he was hit with a skateboard. He fired on him and missed. Had he hit him and killed him, it would have been a murder charge, and a justified self defense. I said “unknown” because it sounds like the prosecution knew his identify but didn’t disclose it.
I don’t see how you could convict on those endangerment charges. Now if he did brandish his gun earlier that lead to him being chased, I would agree with that. But they never charged him with that.
I thought he was innocent of murder but he should have been convicted of a lesser crime.
I would have thought so this morning, but not after reading details on what the charges were.
COUNT 2: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
This was specific to the reported who was following Rosenbaum, saying he was in danger being close proximity to Rosenbaum. But if self defense against Rosenbaum was justified, then I don’t see you could convict on this.
COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Again, this was specific on a single individual. The “unknown” individual who kicked him seconds before he was hit with a skateboard. He fired on him and missed. Had he hit him and killed him, it would have been a murder charge, and a justified self defense. I said “unknown” because it sounds like the prosecution knew his identify but didn’t disclose it.
I don’t see how you could convict on those endangerment charges. Now if he did brandish his gun earlier that lead to him being chased, I would agree with that. But they never charged him with that.
I thought the prosecution didn't give a shit. I still think that.
He should have been brought up on a lesser charge but as you point out, there weren't any.
I agree it really seemed like the prosecution was doing the bare minimum and purposefully doing a poor job. Like they purposefully picked their worst lawyers because they wanted to see the kid get off.
I thought he was innocent of murder but he should have been convicted of a lesser crime.
I would have thought so this morning, but not after reading details on what the charges were.
COUNT 2: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
This was specific to the reported who was following Rosenbaum, saying he was in danger being close proximity to Rosenbaum. But if self defense against Rosenbaum was justified, then I don’t see you could convict on this.
COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Again, this was specific on a single individual. The “unknown” individual who kicked him seconds before he was hit with a skateboard. He fired on him and missed. Had he hit him and killed him, it would have been a murder charge, and a justified self defense. I said “unknown” because it sounds like the prosecution knew his identify but didn’t disclose it.
I don’t see how you could convict on those endangerment charges. Now if he did brandish his gun earlier that lead to him being chased, I would agree with that. But they never charged him with that.
I thought the prosecution didn't give a shit. I still think that.
He should have been brought up on a lesser charge but as you point out, there weren't any.
I would agree on no lesser charge that was appropriate, but there probably was something they could have come up with that would stick. I’m not sure if the prosecution didn’t care or was just incompetent or assumed they’d convict on at least something which lead to the overcharging.
You think there will be rioting? White guy shot two other white guys. White people don't usually get up in arms about such things. It's not a sporting event.
I thought he was innocent of murder but he should have been convicted of a lesser crime.
I would have thought so this morning, but not after reading details on what the charges were.
COUNT 2: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
This was specific to the reported who was following Rosenbaum, saying he was in danger being close proximity to Rosenbaum. But if self defense against Rosenbaum was justified, then I don’t see you could convict on this.
COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Again, this was specific on a single individual. The “unknown” individual who kicked him seconds before he was hit with a skateboard. He fired on him and missed. Had he hit him and killed him, it would have been a murder charge, and a justified self defense. I said “unknown” because it sounds like the prosecution knew his identify but didn’t disclose it.
I don’t see how you could convict on those endangerment charges. Now if he did brandish his gun earlier that lead to him being chased, I would agree with that. But they never charged him with that.
I thought the prosecution didn't give a shit. I still think that.
He should have been brought up on a lesser charge but as you point out, there weren't any.
I would agree on no lesser charge that was appropriate, but there probably was something they could have come up with that would stick. I’m not sure if the prosecution didn’t care or was just incompetent or assumed they’d convict on at least something which lead to the overcharging.
Jurors in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse — who traveled armed from his home in Antioch, Illinois, to Kenosha, Wisconsin, […] The post Rittenhouse jury could con...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
You think there will be rioting? White guy shot two other white guys. White people don't usually get up in arms about such things. It's not a sporting event.
Hope not but I’d be shocked if there isn’t. Someone here already posted a burn it down gif. Seems to be deleted by mods.
I thought he was innocent of murder but he should have been convicted of a lesser crime.
I would have thought so this morning, but not after reading details on what the charges were.
COUNT 2: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
This was specific to the reported who was following Rosenbaum, saying he was in danger being close proximity to Rosenbaum. But if self defense against Rosenbaum was justified, then I don’t see you could convict on this.
COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Again, this was specific on a single individual. The “unknown” individual who kicked him seconds before he was hit with a skateboard. He fired on him and missed. Had he hit him and killed him, it would have been a murder charge, and a justified self defense. I said “unknown” because it sounds like the prosecution knew his identify but didn’t disclose it.
I don’t see how you could convict on those endangerment charges. Now if he did brandish his gun earlier that lead to him being chased, I would agree with that. But they never charged him with that.
I thought the prosecution didn't give a shit. I still think that.
He should have been brought up on a lesser charge but as you point out, there weren't any.
I would agree on no lesser charge that was appropriate, but there probably was something they could have come up with that would stick. I’m not sure if the prosecution didn’t care or was just incompetent or assumed they’d convict on at least something which lead to the overcharging.
Jurors in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse — who traveled armed from his home in Antioch, Illinois, to Kenosha, Wisconsin, […] The post Rittenhouse jury could con...
I didn’t mean to imply lesser charges were only appropriate if he was brandishing his weapon. There should have been smaller charges made, but there weren’t any. Just that based on the charges given, it was an over reach and the right verdict was made. The particular lesser charges brought forth here were only because he missed that target, if it was self defense for Rosenbaum then it was self defense for all.
*Edit to add I don’t care for the “he traveled all the way from Illinois” argument anymore. I always assumed he drove like 6 hours to get there. I only learned a couple days ago it’s a 20 minute drive and his dad lives there so it is a second home for him. Which makes that a moot point to me.
You think there will be rioting? White guy shot two other white guys. White people don't usually get up in arms about such things. It's not a sporting event.
Hope not but I’d be shocked if there isn’t. Someone here already posted a burn it down gif. Seems to be deleted by mods.
Pre-meditated self-defense is going to be as popular as Charlotte Hornets gear was in 1991.
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Look forward to seeing more of this, you know, polling places, school board meetings, town council meetings, candidate meet and greets, election days. Let the gun nuts and insurrectionists celebrate. What a shithole country. Welcome to DC Kyle and the office of Matt Getts Off.
Let's set the over/under at how many more people die from a bullet fired by Kyle Rittenhouse at 1.
I'll take the over.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
You think there will be rioting? White guy shot two other white guys. White people don't usually get up in arms about such things. It's not a sporting event.
I know the riots in Kenosha were in response to a different police department murdering a different black man
but believe it or not, people are still pretty salty about George Floyd around here
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https://law.justia.com/constitution/wisconsin/article-i/section-8/
“When a mistrial requested by the defendant is justified by prosecutorial or judicial overreaching intended to prompt the request, the double jeopardy clause bars reprosecution. State v. Harrell, 85 Wis. 2d 331, 270 N.W.2d 428 (Ct. App. 1978).”
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you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
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2nd amendment is a curse upon our country
COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON
Again, this was specific on a single individual. The “unknown” individual who kicked him seconds before he was hit with a skateboard. He fired on him and missed. Had he hit him and killed him, it would have been a murder charge, and a justified self defense. I said “unknown” because it sounds like the prosecution knew his identify but didn’t disclose it.
I don’t see how you could convict on those endangerment charges. Now if he did brandish his gun earlier that lead to him being chased, I would agree with that. But they never charged him with that.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/explainer-charges-kyle-rittenhouse-face-81208625
I thought the prosecution didn't give a shit. I still think that.
He should have been brought up on a lesser charge but as you point out, there weren't any.
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Jurors in the trial of Kyle Rittenhouse — who traveled armed from his home in Antioch, Illinois, to Kenosha, Wisconsin, […] The post Rittenhouse jury could con...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Just that based on the charges given, it was an over reach and the right verdict was made. The particular lesser charges brought forth here were only because he missed that target, if it was self defense for Rosenbaum then it was self defense for all.
*Edit to add I don’t care for the “he traveled all the way from Illinois” argument anymore. I always assumed he drove like 6 hours to get there. I only learned a couple days ago it’s a 20 minute drive and his dad lives there so it is a second home for him. Which makes that a moot point to me.
Pre-meditated self-defense is going to be as popular as Charlotte Hornets gear was in 1991.
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I'll take the over.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
I know the riots in Kenosha were in response to a different police department murdering a different black man
but believe it or not, people are still pretty salty about George Floyd around here