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George Floyd Protests

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    Well, it’s looking like there could be a chance the verdict in the Chauvin case is tossed. Possibly the whole trial.... #52 maybe should have stayed off the TV...

    https://www.kstp.com/news/chauvin-attorney-files-motion-for-new-trial/6096678/?cat=1
    #52 was just one of a dozen reasons they have. It’s going to get retried with or without his interviews. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,547
    How did Jury selection miss that? Or is not enough digging done about it?
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,907
    It's just BS from a flailing defense attorney, Big deal. I know we are all waiting for it to get tossed, but it shouldn't. It's just fear mongering and giving people a reason to start planning to riot. Let the verdict speak for itself until otherwise proven faulty.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,609
    edited May 5
    tbergs said:
    It's just BS from a flailing defense attorney, Big deal. I know we are all waiting for it to get tossed, but it shouldn't. It's just fear mongering and giving people a reason to start planning to riot. Let the verdict speak for itself until otherwise proven faulty.
    Who's doing the fear-mongering here? The attorney who's job it is to defend his client, and is trying to take advantage of this likely partial juror? Or you, whose mind immediately went to rioting because of it. 
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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,907
    tbergs said:
    It's just BS from a flailing defense attorney, Big deal. I know we are all waiting for it to get tossed, but it shouldn't. It's just fear mongering and giving people a reason to start planning to riot. Let the verdict speak for itself until otherwise proven faulty.
    Who's doing the fear-mongering here? The attorney who's job it is to defend his client, and is trying to take advantage of this likely partial juror? Or you, whose mind immediately went to rioting because of it. 
    Several on here keep saying the verdict is going to be overturned. Why? Because a juror went to an MLK remembrance march? Everybody has bias in some way. Nothing I've seen amounts to anything besides drumming up people to get upset, which would kead to rioting. I'm not fear mongering anything. I'm merely positing what is driving people to make these assertions and the most likely outcome.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,609
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    It's just BS from a flailing defense attorney, Big deal. I know we are all waiting for it to get tossed, but it shouldn't. It's just fear mongering and giving people a reason to start planning to riot. Let the verdict speak for itself until otherwise proven faulty.
    Who's doing the fear-mongering here? The attorney who's job it is to defend his client, and is trying to take advantage of this likely partial juror? Or you, whose mind immediately went to rioting because of it. 
    Several on here keep saying the verdict is going to be overturned. Why? Because a juror went to an MLK remembrance march? Everybody has bias in some way. Nothing I've seen amounts to anything besides drumming up people to get upset, which would kead to rioting. I'm not fear mongering anything. I'm merely positing what is driving people to make these assertions and the most likely outcome.
    Several keep saying? Looks like two or three have speculated that maybe it's a possibility. 
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590
    I'm on the record as knowing it would be appealed. Of course it will be. And it'll work its way through the appeal process or not. That's our justice system. For some. And I expect a motion to be released to home confinement pending appeal, etc. Just too soon to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the overall defense strategy, to "win" or "vacate" on appeal. One can only guess as to the "dark money" backing Chauvin's defense.
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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,547
    I'm on the record as knowing it would be appealed. Of course it will be. And it'll work its way through the appeal process or not. That's our justice system. For some. And I expect a motion to be released to home confinement pending appeal, etc. Just too soon to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the overall defense strategy, to "win" or "vacate" on appeal. One can only guess as to the "dark money" backing Chauvin's defense.
    Dark Money?  If it's a fact he was wearing what he did and went to protest and lied about it has nothing to do with dark money.  Dude lied and got caught.  

    Why this knowledge wasn't discovered earlier is got me baffled.  Nothing stays hidden anymore so why wasn't it found?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590
    I'm on the record as knowing it would be appealed. Of course it will be. And it'll work its way through the appeal process or not. That's our justice system. For some. And I expect a motion to be released to home confinement pending appeal, etc. Just too soon to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the overall defense strategy, to "win" or "vacate" on appeal. One can only guess as to the "dark money" backing Chauvin's defense.
    Dark Money?  If it's a fact he was wearing what he did and went to protest and lied about it has nothing to do with dark money.  Dude lied and got caught.  

    Why this knowledge wasn't discovered earlier is got me baffled.  Nothing stays hidden anymore so why wasn't it found?
    Who's paying for Chauvin's defense? Yea, the juror lied about his attendance at a pro-BLM march and wearing a t-shirt. But how was the photo found and who found it? You don't think its possible the defense knew about this prior to the public? Pre-or mid trial? You don't think there's a contingent that want to see Chauvin found "not guilty" or released upon repeal? Outside of Chauvin and his friends and family? Yea, dark money, its a thing.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,911
    edited May 5
    since when is a MLK remembrance march a tribute to George Floyd?

    if I'm at a pearl jam concert and a bunch of people are wearing creed shirts, did I actually go to a creed concert?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,059
    since when is a MLK remembrance march a tribute to George Floyd?

    if I'm at a pearl jam concert and a bunch of people are wearing creed shirts, did I actually go to a creed concert?

    What I have heard and read is that he was specifically asked if he had gone to any protests regarding George Floyd in Minneapolis. The question was that specific, so he answered no. If he was ever asked if he had gone to any BLM-related events and he said no, then that would be a problem but that's not what I have heard. 
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,911
    edited May 5
    since when is a MLK remembrance march a tribute to George Floyd?

    if I'm at a pearl jam concert and a bunch of people are wearing creed shirts, did I actually go to a creed concert?

    What I have heard and read is that he was specifically asked if he had gone to any protests regarding George Floyd in Minneapolis. The question was that specific, so he answered no. If he was ever asked if he had gone to any BLM-related events and he said no, then that would be a problem but that's not what I have heard. 
    exactly. he answered truthfully. 

    (and I've only seen creed once; it was at a festival, they played in the afternoon on the side stage; scott stapp was wearing flannel and docs and holding the mic like Ed-we all laughed)
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590
    edited May 5
    since when is a MLK remembrance march a tribute to George Floyd?

    if I'm at a pearl jam concert and a bunch of people are wearing creed shirts, did I actually go to a creed concert?
    It was the nature and wording of the question on the juror's questionnaire that he answered "no" to. Something general, like, "have you recently/ever participated in a march or peaceful demonstration, political rally that could be or was in support of BLM, against police brutality, etc. He may have been struck from the pool had he answered yes. Grounds for an appeal.

    Here's the relevant questions:

    7. Did you, or someone close to you, participate in any of the demonstrations or marches against police brutality that took place in Minneapolis after George Floyd's death? , me , someone close to me If you participated, explain how much you were involved. If you participated, did you carry a sign? What did it say?

    12. Other than what you have already described above, have you, or anyone close to you, participated in protests about police use of force or police brutality? Yes No

    13. How favorable or unfavorable are you about Black Lives Matter ? Very favorable Somewhat favorable Neutral Somewhat unfavorable Very unfavorable . Please explain your choice 

    What are the questions for potential jurors in the trial over the death of George Floyd? - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    edited May 5
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    It's just BS from a flailing defense attorney, Big deal. I know we are all waiting for it to get tossed, but it shouldn't. It's just fear mongering and giving people a reason to start planning to riot. Let the verdict speak for itself until otherwise proven faulty.
    Who's doing the fear-mongering here? The attorney who's job it is to defend his client, and is trying to take advantage of this likely partial juror? Or you, whose mind immediately went to rioting because of it. 
    Several on here keep saying the verdict is going to be overturned. Why? Because a juror went to an MLK remembrance march? Everybody has bias in some way. Nothing I've seen amounts to anything besides drumming up people to get upset, which would kead to rioting. I'm not fear mongering anything. I'm merely positing what is driving people to make these assertions and the most likely outcome.
    I was one of those who believed there would be a mistrial early on. I would imagine any halfway decent attorney could make a case when the defense witness had a pig head thrown in his yard and blood smeared. And politicians kept chiming in during the trial. I rarely, if ever think sequestering a jury should be done, but this would have been the one exception. 
    I don't think you will get a fair and impartial trial unless the juror's identities are kept sealed and they are sequestered. 
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,330
    edited May 5
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    It's just BS from a flailing defense attorney, Big deal. I know we are all waiting for it to get tossed, but it shouldn't. It's just fear mongering and giving people a reason to start planning to riot. Let the verdict speak for itself until otherwise proven faulty.
    Who's doing the fear-mongering here? The attorney who's job it is to defend his client, and is trying to take advantage of this likely partial juror? Or you, whose mind immediately went to rioting because of it. 
    Several on here keep saying the verdict is going to be overturned. Why? Because a juror went to an MLK remembrance march? Everybody has bias in some way. Nothing I've seen amounts to anything besides drumming up people to get upset, which would kead to rioting. I'm not fear mongering anything. I'm merely positing what is driving people to make these assertions and the most likely outcome.
    I was one of those who believed there would be a mistrial early on. I would imagine any halfway decent attorney could make a case when the defense witness had a pig head thrown in his yard and blood smeared. And politicians kept chiming in during the trial. I rarely, if ever think sequestering a jury should be done, but this would have been the one exception. 
    I don't think you will get a fair and impartial trial unless the juror's identities are kept sealed and they are sequestered. 
    It was a fair and impartial trial though...

    Of all the things you listed if a pigs head being thrown on someones yard is something that would attribute to a mistrial would people just not do this all the time to get one? Can politicians not give their opinions on matters? Trump did for years with nothing coming back on him for mistrials. How do you know any of the jury was swayed one way or another by things that did not happen inside the court or are you just projecting what you would feel if you were in their shoes?
    Post edited by PJNB on
    PJ
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    It's just BS from a flailing defense attorney, Big deal. I know we are all waiting for it to get tossed, but it shouldn't. It's just fear mongering and giving people a reason to start planning to riot. Let the verdict speak for itself until otherwise proven faulty.
    Who's doing the fear-mongering here? The attorney who's job it is to defend his client, and is trying to take advantage of this likely partial juror? Or you, whose mind immediately went to rioting because of it. 
    Several on here keep saying the verdict is going to be overturned. Why? Because a juror went to an MLK remembrance march? Everybody has bias in some way. Nothing I've seen amounts to anything besides drumming up people to get upset, which would kead to rioting. I'm not fear mongering anything. I'm merely positing what is driving people to make these assertions and the most likely outcome.
    I was one of those who believed there would be a mistrial early on. I would imagine any halfway decent attorney could make a case when the defense witness had a pig head thrown in his yard and blood smeared. And politicians kept chiming in during the trial. I rarely, if ever think sequestering a jury should be done, but this would have been the one exception. 
    I don't think you will get a fair and impartial trial unless the juror's identities are kept sealed and they are sequestered. 
    It was a fair and impartial trial though...

    Of all the things you listed if a pigs head being thrown on someones yard is something that would attribute to a mistrial would people just not do this all the time to get one? Can politicians not give their opinions on matters? Trump did for years with nothing coming back on him for mistrials. How do you know any of the jury was swayed one way or another by things that did not happen inside the court or are you just projecting what you would feel if you were in their shoes?
    I don’t know that any juror was swayed. But you don’t know they weren’t. And witness intimidation is a serious thing, I don’t see people going out and doing that all the time. 
    Even the judge was mad at the politicians and said he wished they’d just shut up during the trial. It’s not their place to influence the decision. 
    And I agree I think this itself trial was fair. But I would expect a good lawyer to argue those points. And honestly, if I was in that jury and I heard about the pigs head, I’d be I fear for my family if I were to vote not guilty. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 20,852
    garauntee you this was known when this juror was seated if not before. defense sat on it as they knew it was a loser of a case.

    I wonder how the alternates would have voted had they been in that jury room.
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  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 8,330
    mickeyrat said:
    garauntee you this was known when this juror was seated if not before. defense sat on it as they knew it was a loser of a case.

    I wonder how the alternates would have voted had they been in that jury room.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/04/22/derek-chauvin-verdict-alternate-juror-speaks-out/7332593002/ 
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,911
    mickeyrat said:
    garauntee you this was known when this juror was seated if not before. defense sat on it as they knew it was a loser of a case.

    I wonder how the alternates would have voted had they been in that jury room.
    and if it's found the defense was ok with that juror knowing full well what they knew....BLAM. appeal denied. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    mickeyrat said:
    garauntee you this was known when this juror was seated if not before. defense sat on it as they knew it was a loser of a case.

    I wonder how the alternates would have voted had they been in that jury room.
    How would they know? Unless I posted on FB, I could attend all sorts of rallies and no one would really know except my family probably. I wouldn’t expect a full on background investigation on each and every potential juror. If he posted all over social media about it at t he time, that might be different, but I haven’t heard he had.
    Also heard more about his interviews. He seems like an idiot. He said he saw only a few seconds of the video before being selected and that “I didn’t need to know much else” and “we would have a chance to make history.” And a picture of him wearing a shirt, I believe at the rally in question, that reads “get your knees off our necks.” This guy just needs to shut up and not try and collect on his 15 minutes.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,547
    I'm on the record as knowing it would be appealed. Of course it will be. And it'll work its way through the appeal process or not. That's our justice system. For some. And I expect a motion to be released to home confinement pending appeal, etc. Just too soon to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't the overall defense strategy, to "win" or "vacate" on appeal. One can only guess as to the "dark money" backing Chauvin's defense.
    Dark Money?  If it's a fact he was wearing what he did and went to protest and lied about it has nothing to do with dark money.  Dude lied and got caught.  

    Why this knowledge wasn't discovered earlier is got me baffled.  Nothing stays hidden anymore so why wasn't it found?
    Who's paying for Chauvin's defense? Yea, the juror lied about his attendance at a pro-BLM march and wearing a t-shirt. But how was the photo found and who found it? You don't think its possible the defense knew about this prior to the public? Pre-or mid trial? You don't think there's a contingent that want to see Chauvin found "not guilty" or released upon repeal? Outside of Chauvin and his friends and family? Yea, dark money, its a thing.
    If they did then that is ingenious on the defenses part.

    Dark money may fund it but it still is a bias and the case should be retried.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,547
    since when is a MLK remembrance march a tribute to George Floyd?

    if I'm at a pearl jam concert and a bunch of people are wearing creed shirts, did I actually go to a creed concert?
    If the shirt says “get off our necks” I might think differently.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    I heard last night the jury was anonymous. I didn’t realize that. If that’s the case, it makes sense this is coming out later. Now you have everyone else to provide these pictures who weren’t available before. Makes more sense the lawyers wouldn’t have known before too:
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,911
    since when is a MLK remembrance march a tribute to George Floyd?

    if I'm at a pearl jam concert and a bunch of people are wearing creed shirts, did I actually go to a creed concert?
    If the shirt says “get off our necks” I might think differently.
    so would I. was he wearing such a shirt?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 301
    since when is a MLK remembrance march a tribute to George Floyd?

    if I'm at a pearl jam concert and a bunch of people are wearing creed shirts, did I actually go to a creed concert?
    If the shirt says “get off our necks” I might think differently.
    so would I. was he wearing such a shirt?
    yes 

    https://www.tmz.com/2021/05/05/brandon-mitchell-chauvin-juror-blm-shirt-mlk-rally-appeal/
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 8,693
    Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss
    Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 27,590
    mace1229 said:
    Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss
    Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 
    Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

    Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,981
    edited 12:38PM
    mace1229 said:
    Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss
    Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 
    Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

    Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.
    $12 million doesn’t seem excessive. It’s a big building with lots of equipment. Probably what it would cost to rebuild and replace. Insurance doesn’t matter. You vandalize an insured car, their insurance can go after you for the damages. Try “but they had insurance” as an excuse in court to not pay for something you damaged on purpose.
    What does any of this have to do with guns? There’s a thread for that.
    Someone torched a public building. You seem upset he’s being held responsible. 
    Post edited by mace1229 at
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 26,547
    mace1229 said:
    Minnesota Man Gets 3-Year Prison Sentence and $12 Million Bill for Torching Minneapolis Police Station
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/st-paul-man-sentenced-to-3-years-must-repay-dollar12-million-for-torching-minneapolis-police-station?source=cheats&via=rss
    Good. I’m curious how that works. Obviously it’s unlikely he’ll come even close to the $12 million. Will they garnish his wages and collect his tax returns for the rest of his life? Can he declare bankruptcy and only worry about the jail time? Either way, he’s going to be financially hurt for a while. 
    Just wondering. What should the survivors of the estate pay? Maybe the insurance company,  like homeowners, or maybe the gun sellers or manufacturers of a weapon that’s used to kill 20 first and second graders and 6 of their teachers? That’d be good, right? I mean $12 million for a torched building seems excessive, particularly with no loss of life? Do cops carry insurance on their buildings? Replacement value? Just wondering. About “financial hurt.”

    Party of individual responsibility and pro-life, sure.
    You don't wonder, you wander.

    Dumb rebuttal as usual.
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