What I want to say to you after some of your posts takes us back to square one. I have NO desire to correspond with you and I certainly owe you no explanations.
I know I'm just a teacher but i would like to know why you think it is ok to advocate for violence towards the police and what positive change such an action could have. Again just a teacher trying to navigate my way through the fluff. Signed the guy always commenting on everything without even remembering what I said...just writing to participate with no critical recall.
It could be worse. Could be a PE “teacher.”
It's so weird to me when people on the forum bring up my profession. Is that a defense mechanism? I honestly don't give a shit what everyone does for a living. Like if you are a garbagemen is your opinion less important? Should we all post our educational credentials moving forward?
You’ve mentioned that you’re a teacher 80 times in the last year and you are quite defensive about it. You’ve made sure everyone knows you’re a teacher and I respect teachers more than you’ll ever know....I was a school administrator. i couldn’t have taught, like doctors, nurses - it takes special people to do these jobs. Don’t blame us for your constant reminders about you being a teacher. If you do that because you’re proud of it, well that’s ok, you should be proud. And all peoples opinions matter.
I've been chatting with mcgruff for quite some time now. When he brings up his being a teacher, I've noticed it's one of three reasons typically - to explain the perspective he comes from (sharing anecdotes others may not have access to), responding to others who very regularly try to bait a response out of him by saying "how can you as a teacher *insert thing here*", or in response to people belittling his credibility. For right or for wrong, if in the same position, I'd probably be arguing similarly to mcgruff.
Mcgruff possesses symptoms of “Male Teacher Stigma”. I worked with our superintendent implementing and obtaining state and federal grant money to address the syndrome in our district. You know, well he’ll understand the “academic” vocabulary, seminars, round tables, exercises, and even building into the district curriculum, making sure our male students feel worthy in their future career and life choices, how to be comfortable in your own skin. It’s a real thing and the majority of male teachers, too few unfortunately, and students found our program extremely helpful. If his district doesn’t have counselors or a program in place he should speak with his superintendent or immediate supervisor, department lead, even his union rep. Ive found him to be extremely insightful, knowledgeable, and helpful regarding his teaching experiences. We are having a disagreement right now in a place that we are told is not a chat room. As far as I’m concerned the spar is over. Honestly I probably have more in common with him than most of you. If I was going to be an asshole or troll (which I don’t even know what that means I’m so social networking challenged) don’t you think I would have jumped on it sooner? I’m a woman by the way, not “dude” (I’ll address that comment soon).
This post is not cool in anyway. I think I'll diagnose you now shall I?
I miss this guy so much. If only our dear leader could put words together like this:
As millions of people across the country take to the streets and raise their voices in response to the killing of George Floyd and the ongoing problem of unequal justice, many people have reached out asking how we can sustain momentum to bring about real change.
Ultimately, it’s going to be up to a new generation of activists to shape strategies that best fit the times. But I believe there are some basic lessons to draw from past efforts that are worth remembering.
First, the waves of protests across the country represent a genuine and legitimate frustration over a decades-long failure to reform police practices and the broader criminal justice system in the United States. The overwhelming majority of participants have been peaceful, courageous, responsible, and inspiring. They deserve our respect and support, not condemnation – something that police in cities like Camden and Flint have commendably understood.
On the other hand, the small minority of folks who’ve resorted to violence in various forms, whether out of genuine anger or mere opportunism, are putting innocent people at risk, compounding the destruction of neighborhoods that are often already short on services and investment and detracting from the larger cause. I saw an elderly black woman being interviewed today in tears because the only grocery store in her neighborhood had been trashed. If history is any guide, that store may take years to come back. So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. If we want our criminal justice system, and American society at large, to operate on a higher ethical code, then we have to model that code ourselves.
Second, I’ve heard some suggest that the recurrent problem of racial bias in our criminal justice system proves that only protests and direct action can bring about change, and that voting and participation in electoral politics is a waste of time. I couldn’t disagree more. The point of protest is to raise public awareness, to put a spotlight on injustice, and to make the powers that be uncomfortable; in fact, throughout American history, it’s often only been in response to protests and civil disobedience that the political system has even paid attention to marginalized communities. But eventually, aspirations have to be translated into specific laws and institutional practices – and in a democracy, that only happens when we elect government officials who are responsive to our demands.
Moreover, it’s important for us to understand which levels of government have the biggest impact on our criminal justice system and police practices. When we think about politics, a lot of us focus only on the presidency and the federal government. And yes, we should be fighting to make sure that we have a president, a Congress, a U.S. Justice Department, and a federal judiciary that actually recognize the ongoing, corrosive role that racism plays in our society and want to do something about it. But the elected officials who matter most in reforming police departments and the criminal justice system work at the state and local levels.
It’s mayors and county executives that appoint most police chiefs and negotiate collective bargaining agreements with police unions. It’s district attorneys and state’s attorneys that decide whether or not to investigate and ultimately charge those involved in police misconduct. Those are all elected positions. In some places, police review boards with the power to monitor police conduct are elected as well. Unfortunately, voter turnout in these local races is usually pitifully low, especially among young people – which makes no sense given the direct impact these offices have on social justice issues, not to mention the fact that who wins and who loses those seats is often determined by just a few thousand, or even a few hundred, votes.
So the bottom line is this: if we want to bring about real change, then the choice isn’t between protest and politics. We have to do both. We have to mobilize to raise awareness, and we have to organize and cast our ballots to make sure that we elect candidates who will act on reform.
Finally, the more specific we can make demands for criminal justice and police reform, the harder it will be for elected officials to just offer lip service to the cause and then fall back into business as usual once protests have gone away. The content of that reform agenda will be different for various communities. A big city may need one set of reforms; a rural community may need another. Some agencies will require wholesale rehabilitation; others should make minor improvements. Every law enforcement agency should have clear policies, including an independent body that conducts investigations of alleged misconduct. Tailoring reforms for each community will require local activists and organizations to do their research and educate fellow citizens in their community on what strategies work best.
But as a starting point, I’ve included two links below. One leads to a report and toolkit developed by the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and based on the work of the Task Force on 21st Century Policing that I formed when I was in the White House. And if you’re interested in taking concrete action, we’ve also created a dedicated site at the Obama Foundation to aggregate and direct you to useful resources and organizations who’ve been fighting the good fight at the local and national levels for years.
I recognize that these past few months have been hard and dispiriting – that the fear, sorrow, uncertainty, and hardship of a pandemic have been compounded by tragic reminders that prejudice and inequality still shape so much of American life. But watching the heightened activism of young people in recent weeks, of every race and every station, makes me hopeful. If, going forward, we can channel our justifiable anger into peaceful, sustained, and effective action, then this moment can be a real turning point in our nation’s long journey to live up to our highest ideals.
What I want to say to you after some of your posts takes us back to square one. I have NO desire to correspond with you and I certainly owe you no explanations.
I know I'm just a teacher but i would like to know why you think it is ok to advocate for violence towards the police and what positive change such an action could have. Again just a teacher trying to navigate my way through the fluff. Signed the guy always commenting on everything without even remembering what I said...just writing to participate with no critical recall.
It could be worse. Could be a PE “teacher.”
It's so weird to me when people on the forum bring up my profession. Is that a defense mechanism? I honestly don't give a shit what everyone does for a living. Like if you are a garbagemen is your opinion less important? Should we all post our educational credentials moving forward?
You’ve mentioned that you’re a teacher 80 times in the last year and you are quite defensive about it. You’ve made sure everyone knows you’re a teacher and I respect teachers more than you’ll ever know....I was a school administrator. i couldn’t have taught, like doctors, nurses - it takes special people to do these jobs. Don’t blame us for your constant reminders about you being a teacher. If you do that because you’re proud of it, well that’s ok, you should be proud. And all peoples opinions matter.
I've been chatting with mcgruff for quite some time now. When he brings up his being a teacher, I've noticed it's one of three reasons typically - to explain the perspective he comes from (sharing anecdotes others may not have access to), responding to others who very regularly try to bait a response out of him by saying "how can you as a teacher *insert thing here*", or in response to people belittling his credibility. For right or for wrong, if in the same position, I'd probably be arguing similarly to mcgruff.
Mcgruff possesses symptoms of “Male Teacher Stigma”. I worked with our superintendent implementing and obtaining state and federal grant money to address the syndrome in our district. You know, well he’ll understand the “academic” vocabulary, seminars, round tables, exercises, and even building into the district curriculum, making sure our male students feel worthy in their future career and life choices, how to be comfortable in your own skin. It’s a real thing and the majority of male teachers, too few unfortunately, and students found our program extremely helpful. If his district doesn’t have counselors or a program in place he should speak with his superintendent or immediate supervisor, department lead, even his union rep. Ive found him to be extremely insightful, knowledgeable, and helpful regarding his teaching experiences. We are having a disagreement right now in a place that we are told is not a chat room. As far as I’m concerned the spar is over. Honestly I probably have more in common with him than most of you. If I was going to be an asshole or troll (which I don’t even know what that means I’m so social networking challenged) don’t you think I would have jumped on it sooner? I’m a woman by the way, not “dude” (I’ll address that comment soon).
This post is not cool in anyway. I think I'll diagnose you now shall I?
Da fuck?! I don't even understand it and honestly don't want to. Moving on.
Anyone pick up the stories of random piles of bricks being dropped off in cities?
I've seen the claim thrown around on Facebook, but the crowd repeating it doesn't inspire enough confidence to even bother investigating it. Aren't there always bricks and blocks lying around at construction sites in cities? The only photo I saw as "evidence" was a pile of pavers at a landscape job in progress.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Anyone pick up the stories of random piles of bricks being dropped off in cities?
I've seen the claim thrown around on Facebook, but the crowd repeating it doesn't inspire enough confidence to even bother investigating it. Aren't there always bricks and blocks lying around at construction sites in cities? The only photo I saw as "evidence" was a pile of pavers at a landscape job in progress.
Fox actually had a story about it.
The pics I saw of the piles of bricks look grossly out of place. Anytime we have had bricks delivered to a jobsite they were blocked off with other materials and banded together, haven't seen one pic of the bricks like that yet.
It's raised my eyebrows but with so much misinformation out there it's hard to make out waht is real or not.
Anyone pick up the stories of random piles of bricks being dropped off in cities?
Yeah. Its super fucking weird. Couple that with old police cars being left out in front of high visibility locations (like Trump hotel in Chicago) and those white randos who just smashing shit and then walk away calmly after getting busted doing so.
I miss this guy so much. If only our dear leader could put words together like this:
As millions of people across the country take to the streets and raise their voices in response to the killing of George Floyd and the ongoing problem of unequal justice, many people have reached out asking how we can sustain momentum to bring about real change.
Ultimately, it’s going to be up to a new generation of activists to shape strategies that best fit the times. But I believe there are some basic lessons to draw from past efforts that are worth remembering.
First, the waves of protests across the country represent a genuine and legitimate frustration over a decades-long failure to reform police practices and the broader criminal justice system in the United States. The overwhelming majority of participants have been peaceful, courageous, responsible, and inspiring. They deserve our respect and support, not condemnation – something that police in cities like Camden and Flint have commendably understood.
On the other hand, the small minority of folks who’ve resorted to violence in various forms, whether out of genuine anger or mere opportunism, are putting innocent people at risk, compounding the destruction of neighborhoods that are often already short on services and investment and detracting from the larger cause. I saw an elderly black woman being interviewed today in tears because the only grocery store in her neighborhood had been trashed. If history is any guide, that store may take years to come back. So let’s not excuse violence, or rationalize it, or participate in it. If we want our criminal justice system, and American society at large, to operate on a higher ethical code, then we have to model that code ourselves.
Second, I’ve heard some suggest that the recurrent problem of racial bias in our criminal justice system proves that only protests and direct action can bring about change, and that voting and participation in electoral politics is a waste of time. I couldn’t disagree more. The point of protest is to raise public awareness, to put a spotlight on injustice, and to make the powers that be uncomfortable; in fact, throughout American history, it’s often only been in response to protests and civil disobedience that the political system has even paid attention to marginalized communities. But eventually, aspirations have to be translated into specific laws and institutional practices – and in a democracy, that only happens when we elect government officials who are responsive to our demands.
Moreover, it’s important for us to understand which levels of government have the biggest impact on our criminal justice system and police practices. When we think about politics, a lot of us focus only on the presidency and the federal government. And yes, we should be fighting to make sure that we have a president, a Congress, a U.S. Justice Department, and a federal judiciary that actually recognize the ongoing, corrosive role that racism plays in our society and want to do something about it. But the elected officials who matter most in reforming police departments and the criminal justice system work at the state and local levels.
It’s mayors and county executives that appoint most police chiefs and negotiate collective bargaining agreements with police unions. It’s district attorneys and state’s attorneys that decide whether or not to investigate and ultimately charge those involved in police misconduct. Those are all elected positions. In some places, police review boards with the power to monitor police conduct are elected as well. Unfortunately, voter turnout in these local races is usually pitifully low, especially among young people – which makes no sense given the direct impact these offices have on social justice issues, not to mention the fact that who wins and who loses those seats is often determined by just a few thousand, or even a few hundred, votes.
So the bottom line is this: if we want to bring about real change, then the choice isn’t between protest and politics. We have to do both. We have to mobilize to raise awareness, and we have to organize and cast our ballots to make sure that we elect candidates who will act on reform.
Finally, the more specific we can make demands for criminal justice and police reform, the harder it will be for elected officials to just offer lip service to the cause and then fall back into business as usual once protests have gone away. The content of that reform agenda will be different for various communities. A big city may need one set of reforms; a rural community may need another. Some agencies will require wholesale rehabilitation; others should make minor improvements. Every law enforcement agency should have clear policies, including an independent body that conducts investigations of alleged misconduct. Tailoring reforms for each community will require local activists and organizations to do their research and educate fellow citizens in their community on what strategies work best.
But as a starting point, I’ve included two links below. One leads to a report and toolkit developed by the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and based on the work of the Task Force on 21st Century Policing that I formed when I was in the White House. And if you’re interested in taking concrete action, we’ve also created a dedicated site at the Obama Foundation to aggregate and direct you to useful resources and organizations who’ve been fighting the good fight at the local and national levels for years.
I recognize that these past few months have been hard and dispiriting – that the fear, sorrow, uncertainty, and hardship of a pandemic have been compounded by tragic reminders that prejudice and inequality still shape so much of American life. But watching the heightened activism of young people in recent weeks, of every race and every station, makes me hopeful. If, going forward, we can channel our justifiable anger into peaceful, sustained, and effective action, then this moment can be a real turning point in our nation’s long journey to live up to our highest ideals.
Anyone pick up the stories of random piles of bricks being dropped off in cities?
In Minneapolis a lot of people are finding bottles of gasoline hidden under bushes in random places. Cars without license plates driving around and being abandoned full of all sorts of interesting materials. Something bigger's going on. I think we're going to get that civil war sooner rather than later.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
What I want to say to you after some of your posts takes us back to square one. I have NO desire to correspond with you and I certainly owe you no explanations.
I know I'm just a teacher but i would like to know why you think it is ok to advocate for violence towards the police and what positive change such an action could have. Again just a teacher trying to navigate my way through the fluff. Signed the guy always commenting on everything without even remembering what I said...just writing to participate with no critical recall.
It could be worse. Could be a PE “teacher.”
It's so weird to me when people on the forum bring up my profession. Is that a defense mechanism? I honestly don't give a shit what everyone does for a living. Like if you are a garbagemen is your opinion less important? Should we all post our educational credentials moving forward?
You’ve mentioned that you’re a teacher 80 times in the last year and you are quite defensive about it. You’ve made sure everyone knows you’re a teacher and I respect teachers more than you’ll ever know....I was a school administrator. i couldn’t have taught, like doctors, nurses - it takes special people to do these jobs. Don’t blame us for your constant reminders about you being a teacher. If you do that because you’re proud of it, well that’s ok, you should be proud. And all peoples opinions matter.
I've been chatting with mcgruff for quite some time now. When he brings up his being a teacher, I've noticed it's one of three reasons typically - to explain the perspective he comes from (sharing anecdotes others may not have access to), responding to others who very regularly try to bait a response out of him by saying "how can you as a teacher *insert thing here*", or in response to people belittling his credibility. For right or for wrong, if in the same position, I'd probably be arguing similarly to mcgruff.
Mcgruff possesses symptoms of “Male Teacher Stigma”. I worked with our superintendent implementing and obtaining state and federal grant money to address the syndrome in our district. You know, well he’ll understand the “academic” vocabulary, seminars, round tables, exercises, and even building into the district curriculum, making sure our male students feel worthy in their future career and life choices, how to be comfortable in your own skin. It’s a real thing and the majority of male teachers, too few unfortunately, and students found our program extremely helpful. If his district doesn’t have counselors or a program in place he should speak with his superintendent or immediate supervisor, department lead, even his union rep. Ive found him to be extremely insightful, knowledgeable, and helpful regarding his teaching experiences. We are having a disagreement right now in a place that we are told is not a chat room. As far as I’m concerned the spar is over. Honestly I probably have more in common with him than most of you. If I was going to be an asshole or troll (which I don’t even know what that means I’m so social networking challenged) don’t you think I would have jumped on it sooner? I’m a woman by the way, not “dude” (I’ll address that comment soon).
This post is not cool in anyway. I think I'll diagnose you now shall I?
Da fuck?! I don't even understand it and honestly don't want to. Moving on.
We all knew you were a teacher and therefore under worked and overpaid but now, apparently, you need therapy as well.
Good luck
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
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Anyone pick up the stories of random piles of bricks being dropped off in cities?
I've seen the claim thrown around on Facebook, but the crowd repeating it doesn't inspire enough confidence to even bother investigating it. Aren't there always bricks and blocks lying around at construction sites in cities? The only photo I saw as "evidence" was a pile of pavers at a landscape job in progress.
Fox actually had a story about it.
The pics I saw of the piles of bricks look grossly out of place. Anytime we have had bricks delivered to a jobsite they were blocked off with other materials and banded together, haven't seen one pic of the bricks like that yet.
It's raised my eyebrows but with so much misinformation out there it's hard to make out waht is real or not.
Commercial masonry contractor here. I hope putting my profession out
there doesn't discredit me, but if someone came to our stack yard and
ran off with 20 cubes of leftover brick we would not even notice it.
Many commercial jobsites are only protected by cheap temporary fencing
and there is little to no protection of residential projects, basically
anyone could get brick and stage it in protest areas if they wanted to.
We will likely never know if this is an organized effort unless someone gets
caught and talks.
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
It's a very good discussion to try and figure out what's going on out there. It may take some time to get to the bottom of it. There's good and bad going on....no doubt of that. Be good to each other...stay safe...and thanks to everyone for bringing what looks like honest information to discuss. We don't want to help spread misinformation. Have a good week, everyone.
Anyone pick up the stories of random piles of bricks being dropped off in cities?
I've seen the claim thrown around on Facebook, but the crowd repeating it doesn't inspire enough confidence to even bother investigating it. Aren't there always bricks and blocks lying around at construction sites in cities? The only photo I saw as "evidence" was a pile of pavers at a landscape job in progress.
I have seen a claim on FB that the "murder" of Floyd was all staged by the democrats. I don't even see how an adult could post such a thing.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
Not enough death for him. I hope the governors have more sense and a grip on the reality that protesting is legal and very American. It's ok for the police to arrest someone who is acting illegally but leave those protestors alone.
Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
edited June 2020
More reporting on that post above.
Robert Costa@costareports
More: President Trump just berated governors and mayors for how they are handling the protests, calling them "fools," per person on the call.
Robert Costa@costareports
Aides to governors say the president continues to talk. One describes it as a "rant." Says he keeps talking about the need to "dominate" the protests.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump is now encouraging the nation's governors, repeatedly, to use the military to deal with protests, per a person on the call. Moments ago.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump just compared this current national crisis to a "war" on the call with governors, per a person on it. And he urged the governors to "fight back." Monday, just before noon eastern.
Falling down,...not staying down
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
Not enough death for him. I hope the governors have more sense and a grip on the reality that protesting is legal and very American. It's ok for the police to arrest someone who is acting illegally but leave those protestors alone.
He's the ultimate shit stirrer. That's his ace up his sleeve. At every chance he gets, he pulls that trick and agitates. I'm so sick of having this spoiled brat/bully sitting in the highest office in the land where no on of his nature ever belongs.
"Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves." -Henry David Thoreau
"Protest beyond the law is not a departure from democracy, it is absolutely essential to it." -Howard Zinn
"Civil disobedience is not only the natural right of a people, especially when they have no effective voice in their own government, but that it is also a substitute for violence or armed rebellion." -Gandhi
“Get up, stand up, Stand up for your rights. Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.”-Bob Marley
“No matter that patriotism is too often the refuge of scoundrels.
Dissent, rebellion, and all-around hell-raising remain the true duty of
patriots.” Barbara Ehrenreich
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
Surprised? He’s not going to get his hands dirty. Then he can blame the Governors again (lather, rinse, repeat). This man is not a leader. He’s a coward. Always has been.
10:37 AM · Jun 1, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
Falling down,...not staying down
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
Surprised? He’s not going to get his hands dirty. Then he can blame the Governors again (lather, rinse, repeat). This man is not a leader. He’s a coward. Always has been.
10:37 AM · Jun 1, 2020·Twitter for iPhone
Well said, Kat!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
More: President Trump just berated governors and mayors for how they are handling the protests, calling them "fools," per person on the call.
Robert Costa@costareports
Aides to governors say the president continues to talk. One describes it as a "rant." Says he keeps talking about the need to "dominate" the protests.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump is now encouraging the nation's governors, repeatedly, to use the military to deal with protests, per a person on the call. Moments ago.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump just compared this current national crisis to a "war" on the call with governors, per a person on it. And he urged the governors to "fight back." Monday, just before noon eastern.
On the phone call, Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker told Trump the nation was craving a steady hand from the top.
"Rhetoric coming out of the White House is making it worse, people are experiencing real pain," Pritzker, a Democrat, told the President. "We've got to have national leadership calling for calm and legitimate concern for protestors."
"I don't like your rhetoric that much either," Trump fired back. "You could have done much better on coronavirus."
More: President Trump just berated governors and mayors for how they are handling the protests, calling them "fools," per person on the call.
Robert Costa@costareports
Aides to governors say the president continues to talk. One describes it as a "rant." Says he keeps talking about the need to "dominate" the protests.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump is now encouraging the nation's governors, repeatedly, to use the military to deal with protests, per a person on the call. Moments ago.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump just compared this current national crisis to a "war" on the call with governors, per a person on it. And he urged the governors to "fight back." Monday, just before noon eastern.
On the phone call, Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker told Trump the nation was craving a steady hand from the top.
"Rhetoric coming out of the White House is making it worse, people are experiencing real pain," Pritzker, a Democrat, told the President. "We've got to have national leadership calling for calm and legitimate concern for protestors."
"I don't like your rhetoric that much either," Trump fired back. "You could have done much better on coronavirus."
You know, trump reminds me of some discussions on this forum...always pivoting. I hope we are able to withstand this most awful year and remove him from office
More: President Trump just berated governors and mayors for how they are handling the protests, calling them "fools," per person on the call.
Robert Costa@costareports
Aides to governors say the president continues to talk. One describes it as a "rant." Says he keeps talking about the need to "dominate" the protests.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump is now encouraging the nation's governors, repeatedly, to use the military to deal with protests, per a person on the call. Moments ago.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump just compared this current national crisis to a "war" on the call with governors, per a person on it. And he urged the governors to "fight back." Monday, just before noon eastern.
On the phone call, Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker told Trump the nation was craving a steady hand from the top.
"Rhetoric coming out of the White House is making it worse, people are experiencing real pain," Pritzker, a Democrat, told the President. "We've got to have national leadership calling for calm and legitimate concern for protestors."
"I don't like your rhetoric that much either," Trump fired back. "You could have done much better on coronavirus."
You know, trump reminds me of some discussions on this forum...always pivoting. I hope we are able to withstand this most awful year and remove him from office
That is what really frustrates me. Talking with friends and family and they bring up Obama or Hillary. We can’t be children and justify bad actions with “well Timmy did the same thing” responses. Not saying Obama did bad things but they think so. Love the Seven O’Clock lyric “much to be done”. We need to look forward.
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Options
Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
More: President Trump just berated governors and mayors for how they are handling the protests, calling them "fools," per person on the call.
Robert Costa@costareports
Aides to governors say the president continues to talk. One describes it as a "rant." Says he keeps talking about the need to "dominate" the protests.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump is now encouraging the nation's governors, repeatedly, to use the military to deal with protests, per a person on the call. Moments ago.
Robert Costa@costareports
President Trump just compared this current national crisis to a "war" on the call with governors, per a person on it. And he urged the governors to "fight back." Monday, just before noon eastern.
On the phone call, Illinois Gov. J.B. Pritzker told Trump the nation was craving a steady hand from the top.
"Rhetoric coming out of the White House is making it worse, people are experiencing real pain," Pritzker, a Democrat, told the President. "We've got to have national leadership calling for calm and legitimate concern for protestors."
"I don't like your rhetoric that much either," Trump fired back. "You could have done much better on coronavirus."
This could be why he jumped on Gov. Pritzker, besides the fact that the governor stood up to him. He didn't like this at all.
@tbergs I am almost positive you are from Minnesota. Question, is Minneapolis pretty racist or is this a isolated incident? Were you surprised this happened?
@mcgruff10 Yes, I am. I grew up in rural MN, but have lived and worked in the MPLS/St. Paul metro area for most of the last 20+ years. I mentioned in another thread after this happened that I briefly lived in the area where Floyd died and know many people from around that area.
In relation to this incident, I have been trying to refrain from offering my candid opinion in most settings because it would mean openly mentioning my background of law enforcement and what I know existed at least 10 years ago when I was still knee deep in everything LE (and we know how mentioning our professions goes around here sometimes). I don't know that I can explain it very well. I stepped away from that role and work for a college campus now as the director of public safety which is leaps and bounds different than the chaos a police officer on the city streets has to deal with on a daily basis.
I think there is a very fine line and even the best officers have their moments because they are flawed humans. Most of the bias exists in the 15+ year veterans from my experience, but the bias often expands far beyond race. It is a disdain for those who choose to harm themselves and others, whether it be assault, theft, substance abuse or one of the many other vices that plague the entire world. There is no excuse for intentional violence or abuse of power against anyone when you choose to wear the badge, but I think some lose that rose colored tint after being exposed to the same situations and people day in and day out. The same justice system you see fail minorities, fails police as well. That slam dunk domestic assault where they had to pull the suspect off the victim ends up getting pled down to a misdemeanor with probation. Or the stabbing in the alley of a bar where the suspect is screaming about murdering their ex as they're being taken in to custody seems like a no-brainer to be at least a 2nd degree assault with a deadly weapon ends up being a disorderly conduct and 5th degree assault. Cops lose that feeling and sense of "I" can make a difference the longer they see the same result and cycle continue. When this attitude and race intersect, it's a recipe for disaster, even if it did not have to do with race it can never not be about race. The present doesn't yet allow us to move beyond the past race inequities because we have not taken the necessary steps to ensure the future will be any different.
I worked with officers who were great people and didn't have any racial prejudice, but they did have a bit of an attitude (which is another stigma of LE that I think is getting better) that made them feel the need to make sure they were in control. It wasn't a situation where any policy or human rights violation was being committed, but it was a lesser standard of patience and due care. Maybe instead of gently assisting someone off the ground in cuffs, it was a tug and a jerk because they just had to wrestle with the person for 5 minutes to get them cuffed. No blatant hitting, kicking or physical abuse, but a less courteous approach.
When it comes to Minneapolis specifically, I can only speak from what I know or saw personally through friends or colleagues who worked for that department because I did not work for them. I can tell you that it was one of the few departments in the state that I absolutely did not want to work for because there was a reputation I was not interested in being a part of. I think things have change a little, but the "joke" has always been that St. Paul was the clean and friendly PD to work for, but once you crossed the river beware. St. Paul has since had many of their own issues, but for the most part has maintained a better reputation.
When I was an intern in college, the agency I worked for did a search warrant on the residence of a drug dealer/gang member. This was a white male who lived in the basement of his parent's house. It was, to say lightly, a shit hole. This guy literally had a piss and shit bucket in the corner of the basement about 20 feet from their bed. During the search there was an MPD officer who I had come to know as a bit more aggressive in his attitude and approach that decided he'd had enough and just trashed the place worse than it needed to be. Searches of people's homes are usually disrupting enough and the goal is to try and leave it as much like you found it as possible, but that was not what he did. That along with the other things I'd heard about MPD told me all I needed to know about the type of officers that I would be working with if I chose to work there. Of course, not all MPD officers were or are that way, but it's also easy for small behaviors and attitudes to go unchecked which can lead to an overly toxic environment where even new officers can be unknowingly trained to respond the same way.
What I was most surprised about in the Floyd death is that MPD actually has a policy in place yet that allows for a knee to the back of the neck to be administered in any situation. I know it is a somewhat rare policy and is only allowed by officers specifically trained to administer it, but it reminds me a lot of the "sleeper hold" restraint that was discontinued years ago. I was originally trained on how to administer that, but most departments had policies in place that didn't allow it because it was so dangerous and if not done correctly could cause death. While a knee to the back of the neck generally isn't something that can restrict breathing or obstruct an airway, it just doesn't seem like a restraint method steeped in a lot of actual purpose and just looks bad. Generally placing a knee directly between the shoulder blades will be sufficient so I don't understand why a department, especially one that has had its share of excessive force issues, would not remove it as an accepted form of restraint.
Take it for what it's worth, but I think what I see in Mpls. is what you will find in any major metro area all over the country. There's a disparate amount of racial inequity, which leads to more frequent contact with police and in turn more situations where excessive force is being used. I don't have any answers. This incident has baffled me because it seems so apparent that the officers should have assessed the situation long before Floyd stopped breathing. Sure, people lie to the police and exaggerate the trauma or pain they are under all the time, but never have I seen someone be disregarded for so long. I can't imagine being one of the officers and not doing a physical assessment at any point, especially after he became motionless. At that point you know you're restraining a limp body. Figure it the fuck out and be a person.
Too many cops are trained to enforce the letter of the law and I think that is to their detriment because there are many situations where circumstances dictate that it's not in the best interest of public safety or even makes sense. Off the top of my head, I think of the recent arrest of the CNN team and then the next day a local news station photographer. That's where I can only assume that those cops were told "clear everyone out and arrest anyone who doesn't leave" so they did exactly that. Good cops need to be able to apply rational thought, but I think this is where training and education need to be improved and expanded. We need veteran training officers who have these abilities and knowledge and can instill it in younger officers. There will still be mistakes, but hopefully they will be fewer and far between.
I don't know. I just rambled on for a few paragraphs and I'm not sure any of it makes sense.
So Antifa posted that they are going to "fuck up the city" tonight and then march into the Privileged areas. Their twitter account has now been suspended.
Comments
Who is the author, Obama? ^
The pics I saw of the piles of bricks look grossly out of place. Anytime we have had bricks delivered to a jobsite they were blocked off with other materials and banded together, haven't seen one pic of the bricks like that yet.
It's raised my eyebrows but with so much misinformation out there it's hard to make out waht is real or not.
Its weird.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Good luck
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
Robert Costa@costareports
Well said, Kat!
In relation to this incident, I have been trying to refrain from offering my candid opinion in most settings because it would mean openly mentioning my background of law enforcement and what I know existed at least 10 years ago when I was still knee deep in everything LE (and we know how mentioning our professions goes around here sometimes). I don't know that I can explain it very well. I stepped away from that role and work for a college campus now as the director of public safety which is leaps and bounds different than the chaos a police officer on the city streets has to deal with on a daily basis.
I think there is a very fine line and even the best officers have their moments because they are flawed humans. Most of the bias exists in the 15+ year veterans from my experience, but the bias often expands far beyond race. It is a disdain for those who choose to harm themselves and others, whether it be assault, theft, substance abuse or one of the many other vices that plague the entire world. There is no excuse for intentional violence or abuse of power against anyone when you choose to wear the badge, but I think some lose that rose colored tint after being exposed to the same situations and people day in and day out. The same justice system you see fail minorities, fails police as well. That slam dunk domestic assault where they had to pull the suspect off the victim ends up getting pled down to a misdemeanor with probation. Or the stabbing in the alley of a bar where the suspect is screaming about murdering their ex as they're being taken in to custody seems like a no-brainer to be at least a 2nd degree assault with a deadly weapon ends up being a disorderly conduct and 5th degree assault. Cops lose that feeling and sense of "I" can make a difference the longer they see the same result and cycle continue. When this attitude and race intersect, it's a recipe for disaster, even if it did not have to do with race it can never not be about race. The present doesn't yet allow us to move beyond the past race inequities because we have not taken the necessary steps to ensure the future will be any different.
I worked with officers who were great people and didn't have any racial prejudice, but they did have a bit of an attitude (which is another stigma of LE that I think is getting better) that made them feel the need to make sure they were in control. It wasn't a situation where any policy or human rights violation was being committed, but it was a lesser standard of patience and due care. Maybe instead of gently assisting someone off the ground in cuffs, it was a tug and a jerk because they just had to wrestle with the person for 5 minutes to get them cuffed. No blatant hitting, kicking or physical abuse, but a less courteous approach.
When it comes to Minneapolis specifically, I can only speak from what I know or saw personally through friends or colleagues who worked for that department because I did not work for them. I can tell you that it was one of the few departments in the state that I absolutely did not want to work for because there was a reputation I was not interested in being a part of. I think things have change a little, but the "joke" has always been that St. Paul was the clean and friendly PD to work for, but once you crossed the river beware. St. Paul has since had many of their own issues, but for the most part has maintained a better reputation.
When I was an intern in college, the agency I worked for did a search warrant on the residence of a drug dealer/gang member. This was a white male who lived in the basement of his parent's house. It was, to say lightly, a shit hole. This guy literally had a piss and shit bucket in the corner of the basement about 20 feet from their bed. During the search there was an MPD officer who I had come to know as a bit more aggressive in his attitude and approach that decided he'd had enough and just trashed the place worse than it needed to be. Searches of people's homes are usually disrupting enough and the goal is to try and leave it as much like you found it as possible, but that was not what he did. That along with the other things I'd heard about MPD told me all I needed to know about the type of officers that I would be working with if I chose to work there. Of course, not all MPD officers were or are that way, but it's also easy for small behaviors and attitudes to go unchecked which can lead to an overly toxic environment where even new officers can be unknowingly trained to respond the same way.
What I was most surprised about in the Floyd death is that MPD actually has a policy in place yet that allows for a knee to the back of the neck to be administered in any situation. I know it is a somewhat rare policy and is only allowed by officers specifically trained to administer it, but it reminds me a lot of the "sleeper hold" restraint that was discontinued years ago. I was originally trained on how to administer that, but most departments had policies in place that didn't allow it because it was so dangerous and if not done correctly could cause death. While a knee to the back of the neck generally isn't something that can restrict breathing or obstruct an airway, it just doesn't seem like a restraint method steeped in a lot of actual purpose and just looks bad. Generally placing a knee directly between the shoulder blades will be sufficient so I don't understand why a department, especially one that has had its share of excessive force issues, would not remove it as an accepted form of restraint.
Take it for what it's worth, but I think what I see in Mpls. is what you will find in any major metro area all over the country. There's a disparate amount of racial inequity, which leads to more frequent contact with police and in turn more situations where excessive force is being used. I don't have any answers. This incident has baffled me because it seems so apparent that the officers should have assessed the situation long before Floyd stopped breathing. Sure, people lie to the police and exaggerate the trauma or pain they are under all the time, but never have I seen someone be disregarded for so long. I can't imagine being one of the officers and not doing a physical assessment at any point, especially after he became motionless. At that point you know you're restraining a limp body. Figure it the fuck out and be a person.
Too many cops are trained to enforce the letter of the law and I think that is to their detriment because there are many situations where circumstances dictate that it's not in the best interest of public safety or even makes sense. Off the top of my head, I think of the recent arrest of the CNN team and then the next day a local news station photographer. That's where I can only assume that those cops were told "clear everyone out and arrest anyone who doesn't leave" so they did exactly that. Good cops need to be able to apply rational thought, but I think this is where training and education need to be improved and expanded. We need veteran training officers who have these abilities and knowledge and can instill it in younger officers. There will still be mistakes, but hopefully they will be fewer and far between.
I don't know. I just rambled on for a few paragraphs and I'm not sure any of it makes sense.