The Last “Dance” ESPN Documentary

eeriepadave

tempo_n_groove said:

eeriepadave said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.

Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.

Not enjoying Miller was not enjoying Basketball...

i didn't say i didn't enjoy him.

tempo_n_groove

eeriepadave said:

tempo_n_groove said:

eeriepadave said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.

Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.

Not enjoying Miller was not enjoying Basketball...

i didn't say i didn't enjoy him.

I know you didn't. I did, lol.

tempo_n_groove

So I never knew that about Kerr's father in Beiruit.  How the hell did I ever miss that story?

I really want a part 2 now.  I am sure they have tons of footage left.

bootlegger10

Would love to hear how they arrived at using Present Tense.  

Ledbetterman10

The feeling when you realize this doc is over...

https://youtu.be/6FNQMYnD6PY

Glorified KC

Ledbetterman10 said:

The feeling when you realize this doc is over...

https://youtu.be/6FNQMYnD6PY

Yeah that was a very bittersweet feeling.  I will miss sitting down on Sunday night to watch this.  I loved the NBA in the 1990s.  It was my first real experience in professional sports.  I was 9 when I began watching Michael Jordan, because my folks got cable for the first time and I could get access to WGN.  Even during the 2 years he was retired, I was glued to the NBA still.  This makes me want to go back and watch the other 30 for 30's like "Winning Time" and "Bad Boys" again.

Ledbetterman10

cdthomas1981 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The feeling when you realize this doc is over...

https://youtu.be/6FNQMYnD6PY

Yeah that was a very bittersweet feeling.  I will miss sitting down on Sunday night to watch this.  I loved the NBA in the 1990s.  It was my first real experience in professional sports.  I was 9 when I began watching Michael Jordan, because my folks got cable for the first time and I could get access to WGN.  Even during the 2 years he was retired, I was glued to the NBA still.  This makes me want to go back and watch the other 30 for 30's like "Winning Time" and "Bad Boys" again.

There was a pretty good 30 for 30 on the Shaq/Penny Magic as well. 

Glorified KC

Ledbetterman10 said:

cdthomas1981 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The feeling when you realize this doc is over...

https://youtu.be/6FNQMYnD6PY

Yeah that was a very bittersweet feeling.  I will miss sitting down on Sunday night to watch this.  I loved the NBA in the 1990s.  It was my first real experience in professional sports.  I was 9 when I began watching Michael Jordan, because my folks got cable for the first time and I could get access to WGN.  Even during the 2 years he was retired, I was glued to the NBA still.  This makes me want to go back and watch the other 30 for 30's like "Winning Time" and "Bad Boys" again.

There was a pretty good 30 for 30 on the Shaq/Penny Magic as well. 

Oh yeah I forgot!  "This Magic Moment." I'll be watching a bunch of YouTube replays of some 90s NBA as well to try to fill the void.

cp3iverson

tempo_n_groove said:

So I never knew that about Kerr's father in Beiruit.  How the hell did I ever miss that story?

I really want a part 2 now.  I am sure they have tons of footage left.

Imagine rival Pac 10 schools chanting about the murder.  I thought they would touch on that.  

tempo_n_groove

cp3iverson said:

tempo_n_groove said:

So I never knew that about Kerr's father in Beiruit.  How the hell did I ever miss that story?

I really want a part 2 now.  I am sure they have tons of footage left.

Imagine rival Pac 10 schools chanting about the murder.  I thought they would touch on that.  

I just heard about that today.  The other team chanted "where's your father".  That is screwed up.

We used to laugh at the Beat Your Wife Potvin chants but this one was a low blow.

Glorified KC

tempo_n_groove said:

bootlegger10 said:

MJ would have learned how to increase his 3 point percentage 3-4% and dominate in today’s game.  He had to bulk up for the Pistons but still was as quick as anyone.  I have no doubt he could dominate just like Lebron did.

Agreed.

The comparisons between these two are always interesting.  Neither have/had relied on their 3-point shot.  LeBron has the edge in passing, rebounding and just being a freight train when he's going to the hoop.  Jordan had a better mid-range game, overall more polished jump shot (which would have given him a good chance at making more 3's in today's NBA) and was a fiercer competitor.  Both exceptional defenders against multiple positions on the court and in today's NBA, Jordan could probably hold his own against most 5's if needing to defend that position.  I'd even wonder if Jordan would be considered a 2 in today's NBA.  He may be more of a 3 (Wing) or even a stretch 4.  It would have been incredible to see these two play in the same era.

Ledbetterman10

Somehow this play didn't make into the documentary at any point. One of my Pippen nit-picks from this otherwise perfect documentary. It's from Michael's "double-nickel" game. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgiZmKxAmFs

cp3iverson

I forgot about that!

Ledbetterman10

cp3iverson said:

I forgot about that!

Of course you did. They'll have you believe that the final score of that game was Bulls 57 (Michael's 55, Wennington's 2), Knicks 55.

Might as well mention my other Pippen nit-picks...

-I would have liked if they mentioned that Pippen was the leading scorer in the clinching game 5 in 1991 against the Lakers. Not that I think he deserves a medal for outscoring MJ by two points in a huge game. But it would have been nice if they just dubbed the announcer mentioning it (it would be like 2 seconds of screen time). But they focused on Paxon because apparently Michael learned to pass that game. And Paxon was great in that 4th quarter, but so wasn't Pippen. Throw him a bone. It would be nice redemption narrative following the migraine the year before. Yeah, they showed him showing some toughness by brushing off that super cheap shot from Rodman, but still. 

-This doc continues the false narrative of the 1992 Finals, which is Michael Jordan made 6 threes in the first half of game 1, and that's all ya need to know. Well actually, the Bulls were down by 15 late in the third quarter of game 6, when MJ went to the bench. The Pippen-led squad came all the way back to take the lead, and then MJ came back in and they won going away. Now, when I say "Pippen-led squad," I don't mean he scored every basket like MJ. But he scored here, made an assist there, took a charge from Clyde, etc. Did all the Pippen-stuff that he does to help them take the lead.

-When they highlighted the 1994 season, it was shocking that they didn't show a clip of him winning all-star MVP. I know, it's just an all-star game. But everyone in that all-star game was jockeying for position with MJ gone, and Pip rose to the top that day. I'm not saying they should stop the doc and focus on it, but just give me a quick clip.

Somewhere, there's someone that wasn't around in the 90's (or were around but didn't pay close attention). I'm afraid that person might walk away from this doc thinking Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, and John Paxon were better basketball players than Pippen. At least they focused on him toughing it out in 1998 with the back injury.

Small Pippen fanboy nitpicks aside, this is the greatest sports documentary ever. It's not just about Michael and the Bulls either. It's a history of basketball from the moment Michael hits that game-winner in college, to the moment he hits the game-winner in 1998. With the exception of Hakeem (due to the timeframe he won his titles), everybody who's anybody in 90's basketball appeared in this, either in the highlights, as talking heads, or both. 

eeriepadave

tempo_n_groove said:

eeriepadave said:

tempo_n_groove said:

eeriepadave said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I loved Reggie Miller and that Pacers squad.  He was Steph Curry before there was one.

Meh was never a huge Reggie Miller fan. Although I did feel kinda bad for Malone and Stockton and the Utah Jazz and their fans. They had a good team.

Not enjoying Miller was not enjoying Basketball...

i didn't say i didn't enjoy him.

I know you didn't. I did, lol.

oh ok misunderstood what you wrote

tempo_n_groove

Ledbetterman10 said:

cp3iverson said:

I forgot about that!

Of course you did. They'll have you believe that the final score of that game was Bulls 57 (Michael's 55, Wennington's 2), Knicks 55.

Might as well mention my other Pippen nit-picks...

-I would have liked if they mentioned that Pippen was the leading scorer in the clinching game 5 in 1991 against the Lakers. Not that I think he deserves a medal for outscoring MJ by two points in a huge game. But it would have been nice if they just dubbed the announcer mentioning it (it would be like 2 seconds of screen time). But they focused on Paxon because apparently Michael learned to pass that game. And Paxon was great in that 4th quarter, but so wasn't Pippen. Throw him a bone. It would be nice redemption narrative following the migraine the year before. Yeah, they showed him showing some toughness by brushing off that super cheap shot from Rodman, but still. 

-This doc continues the false narrative of the 1992 Finals, which is Michael Jordan made 6 threes in the first half of game 1, and that's all ya need to know. Well actually, the Bulls were down by 15 late in the third quarter of game 6, when MJ went to the bench. The Pippen-led squad came all the way back to take the lead, and then MJ came back in and they won going away. Now, when I say "Pippen-led squad," I don't mean he scored every basket like MJ. But he scored here, made an assist there, took a charge from Clyde, etc. Did all the Pippen-stuff that he does to help them take the lead.

-When they highlighted the 1994 season, it was shocking that they didn't show a clip of him winning all-star MVP. I know, it's just an all-star game. But everyone in that all-star game was jockeying for position with MJ gone, and Pip rose to the top that day. I'm not saying they should stop the doc and focus on it, but just give me a quick clip.

Somewhere, there's someone that wasn't around in the 90's (or were around but didn't pay close attention). I'm afraid that person might walk away from this doc thinking Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, and John Paxon were better basketball players than Pippen. At least they focused on him toughing it out in 1998 with the back injury.

Small Pippen fanboy nitpicks aside, this is the greatest sports documentary ever. It's not just about Michael and the Bulls either. It's a history of basketball from the moment Michael hits that game-winner in college, to the moment he hits the game-winner in 1998. With the exception of Hakeem (due to the timeframe he won his titles), everybody who's anybody in 90's basketball appeared in this, either in the highlights, as talking heads, or both. 

I've heard a few sports shows mention that Pippen doesn't look good after this documentary and They did mention that he was a top 50 player of all time.

I seriously hope that people understand just how good Pippen was.  I don't remember them showing Pippen chase down anyone and blocking them like he would always do.  Did they show any of that?

bootlegger10

They should have showed Kukoc’s third quarter in game 7 against the Pacers.  I re-watched that game last week and he kept them in the game and allowed MJ to rest.  B.S. that wasn’t included.  Would have taken only a minute.

Glorified KC

bootlegger10 said:

They should have showed Kukoc’s third quarter in game 7 against the Pacers.  I re-watched that game last week and he kept them in the game and allowed MJ to rest.  B.S. that wasn’t included.  Would have taken only a minute.

I was thinking the same thing.  They don't win that game without Kukoc's effort.

Ledbetterman10

tempo_n_groove said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

cp3iverson said:

I forgot about that!

Of course you did. They'll have you believe that the final score of that game was Bulls 57 (Michael's 55, Wennington's 2), Knicks 55.

Might as well mention my other Pippen nit-picks...

-I would have liked if they mentioned that Pippen was the leading scorer in the clinching game 5 in 1991 against the Lakers. Not that I think he deserves a medal for outscoring MJ by two points in a huge game. But it would have been nice if they just dubbed the announcer mentioning it (it would be like 2 seconds of screen time). But they focused on Paxon because apparently Michael learned to pass that game. And Paxon was great in that 4th quarter, but so wasn't Pippen. Throw him a bone. It would be nice redemption narrative following the migraine the year before. Yeah, they showed him showing some toughness by brushing off that super cheap shot from Rodman, but still. 

-This doc continues the false narrative of the 1992 Finals, which is Michael Jordan made 6 threes in the first half of game 1, and that's all ya need to know. Well actually, the Bulls were down by 15 late in the third quarter of game 6, when MJ went to the bench. The Pippen-led squad came all the way back to take the lead, and then MJ came back in and they won going away. Now, when I say "Pippen-led squad," I don't mean he scored every basket like MJ. But he scored here, made an assist there, took a charge from Clyde, etc. Did all the Pippen-stuff that he does to help them take the lead.

-When they highlighted the 1994 season, it was shocking that they didn't show a clip of him winning all-star MVP. I know, it's just an all-star game. But everyone in that all-star game was jockeying for position with MJ gone, and Pip rose to the top that day. I'm not saying they should stop the doc and focus on it, but just give me a quick clip.

Somewhere, there's someone that wasn't around in the 90's (or were around but didn't pay close attention). I'm afraid that person might walk away from this doc thinking Horace Grant, Steve Kerr, and John Paxon were better basketball players than Pippen. At least they focused on him toughing it out in 1998 with the back injury.

Small Pippen fanboy nitpicks aside, this is the greatest sports documentary ever. It's not just about Michael and the Bulls either. It's a history of basketball from the moment Michael hits that game-winner in college, to the moment he hits the game-winner in 1998. With the exception of Hakeem (due to the timeframe he won his titles), everybody who's anybody in 90's basketball appeared in this, either in the highlights, as talking heads, or both. 

I've heard a few sports shows mention that Pippen doesn't look good after this documentary and They did mention that he was a top 50 player of all time.

I seriously hope that people understand just how good Pippen was.  I don't remember them showing Pippen chase down anyone and blocking them like he would always do.  Did they show any of that?

Not that I noticed. I know they're all side-men to Michael, but I was hoping the doc portrayed the team as....

Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Scottie>>>>>>>>>>>>>Everyone else

Instead I felt it was....

Michael>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Scottie and everyone else. 

But thankfully there's YouTube. Highest recommendation to this guy's channel. He's also on instagram as Pip33assassin....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tObgS6uUVjQ

Glorified KC

The comment Miller made about the 1997-1998 Pacers being the better team really had me thinking too.  Chicago won 62 games and that was without Scottie for the first 2 months of the season.  I'd have to think more about this, but my initial impulse is to disagree with Miller.  If not for the game 4 winning shot (which should not have happened, he clearly pushed off of Jordan), that series never sees a game 7.