Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

cblock4life

HughFreakingDillon said:

BF25394 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Biden seemed pretty sharp during his presser just now. 

Indeed. The only thing I would have liked to see was for him to have replied to the last question, about his misspeaking and saying "Vice President Trump" instead of "Vice President Harris," by saying: "Are you fucking serious? Do you seriously believe that I can't tell the difference between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump? Are you that stupid or lazy to even dignify that idiotic criticism? Do you remember when Barack Obama misspoke and said that he'd been to 57 states? No person could have believed in good faith that Barack Obama didn't know how many states there are, and yet Republicans tried to make that a thing. Get a life. I just stood up here and answered pointed questions about foreign and domestic policy more cogently and sanely than Donald Trump could ever dream of doing, and you want to talk about me misspeaking and saying 'Vice President Trump.' Go fuck yourselves. Now I'm going to get back to doing my job."

this is exactly what drives me bonkers about the media. Biden clearly can run circles around trump with regards to policy, and people keep focusing on these stupid "gaffes". everyone misspeaks. Biden included. He always has. It was a running joke he himself made calling himself a gaffe machine. all trump can muster is "we're doing incredible things" while handling his invisible accordion. 

This is hilarious.  Hope you’re writing them down.  You should send it to Colbert.  

BF25394

Biden

mrussel1 said:

BF25394 said:

mrussel1 said:

BF25394 said:

pjl44 said:

tbergs said:

mrussel1 said:

New Marist poll.  This is considered an A+ poll by 538.  Great summary and worth the quick read.  Only downside is that it's national,  and with the election being so tight, it's less useful.  But it does have really good information about how the candidates are perceived 

https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/contest-for-president-still-up-for-grabs/

The hypocrisy of those polled around mental acuity between the candidates is ridiculous. I get the concern for Biden, but to see Trump poll higher on mental acuity is stupid. Speaking nonsense loud and at length doesn't equate to acuity. He's never been able to provide any type of substance or critical thinking and it's even got worse the last 4 years, but ok, perception is reality I guess. 

People are all but screaming at the top of their lungs that they're uncomfortable with a plainly senile man in that position and there's a flavor of Democrat who for whatever reason are refusing to listen

Biden is not "plainly senile." A plainly senile man could not extemporaneously answer complicated questions about foreign and domestic policy cogently and substantively for nearly an hour.

I'm not a Democrat, but all these Democrats publicly-- or, worse, anonymously-- wringing their hands and/or maligning Biden are playing right into Trump's hands, because they're not talking about what an incoherent menace Trump is, and they're giving people permission to pile on and/or sit out the election. And people in polls who indicate that they think that Biden's mental acuity is less sharp than Trump's make me question their own mental acuity. Never underestimate the obliviousness of the American voter. I saw a 19-year-old woman quoted last week as saying she supports Trump because she blames Biden for increased restrictions on abortion and doesn't think Biden supports women's rights. How little attention does a person need to pay to know that Democrats are the party favoring greater access to abortion and Republicans are the party seeking to restrict access to abortion? I'm not making a value judgment as to which party is right or which is the best policy. It's just a basic fact of American political life, and there are apparently voters who don't grasp it.

It's a tough line to walk.  Yes you're right about the orange menace, but at the same time I expect more out of my leaders than to not be a criminal like Trump.  And I think the pressure from the party to drop out is right and appropriate.  We should put the best candidate up becuase that person will need to be president for four years, not just win an election.  And I no longer believe it is Biden.  

But it's not as if "the best candidate" to replace Biden is readily apparent. It would likely be Harris by default if he stepped aside, and it's not clear at all that she would perform better than he would. She might, but it's impossible to say. And the pressure from "the party" is not really from the party, it's from a subset of elected officials and donors within the party. Democratic voters are the party, and they have already voted for him in every state's primary or caucus.

It's not a great argument that the people already voted for him.  There was no competition.  And the elected officials are really important.  I'm highly concerned about him dragging down- ballot candidates with him.  
No I don't know that Harris or Newsome would do better.  I can't make such a statement.  But I do believe that Harris or Newsome would be more effective at prosecuting the Democratic case for our policies. As an example, in the debate I think Biden did a terrible job attacking Trump on abortion.  His argument about states rights is absurd and easily dismantled.  He didn't do it.  That was very distressing to me.  He has to be able to carry the message in an influential manner, otherwise all candidates will suffer. 

You'll get no argument from me that he did a terrible job in the debate, but there's a difference between "can't" and "didn't." The fact that he botched the abortion argument in the debate does not mean that he will not or cannot make the argument forcefully between now and November. He just made a blistering case against Trump today. Yes, it was a scripted speech, but that's what both candidates are going to be doing from here on out, with the possible exception of one debate in September when I would expect Biden to be much better than he was on June 27.

With respect to there being no competition in the Democratic primary, there were other candidates on the ballot. Including "uncommitted" votes in states that allow that, those other options totaled about 13 percent of the vote. Meanwhile, nearly 24 percent of Republican primary voters did not vote for Trump.

Merkin Baller

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

BF25394 said:

pjl44 said:

tbergs said:

mrussel1 said:

New Marist poll.  This is considered an A+ poll by 538.  Great summary and worth the quick read.  Only downside is that it's national,  and with the election being so tight, it's less useful.  But it does have really good information about how the candidates are perceived 

https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/contest-for-president-still-up-for-grabs/

The hypocrisy of those polled around mental acuity between the candidates is ridiculous. I get the concern for Biden, but to see Trump poll higher on mental acuity is stupid. Speaking nonsense loud and at length doesn't equate to acuity. He's never been able to provide any type of substance or critical thinking and it's even got worse the last 4 years, but ok, perception is reality I guess. 

People are all but screaming at the top of their lungs that they're uncomfortable with a plainly senile man in that position and there's a flavor of Democrat who for whatever reason are refusing to listen

Biden is not "plainly senile." A plainly senile man could not extemporaneously answer complicated questions about foreign and domestic policy cogently and substantively for nearly an hour.

I'm not a Democrat, but all these Democrats publicly-- or, worse, anonymously-- wringing their hands and/or maligning Biden are playing right into Trump's hands, because they're not talking about what an incoherent menace Trump is, and they're giving people permission to pile on and/or sit out the election. And people in polls who indicate that they think that Biden's mental acuity is less sharp than Trump's make me question their own mental acuity. Never underestimate the obliviousness of the American voter. I saw a 19-year-old woman quoted last week as saying she supports Trump because she blames Biden for increased restrictions on abortion and doesn't think Biden supports women's rights. How little attention does a person need to pay to know that Democrats are the party favoring greater access to abortion and Republicans are the party seeking to restrict access to abortion? I'm not making a value judgment as to which party is right or which is the best policy. It's just a basic fact of American political life, and there are apparently voters who don't grasp it.

shecky

shecky

josevolution

shecky said:

2nd A rules for everyone no? 

shecky

shecky

josevolution

I’m hoping Biden will come out and make statement against this kind of violence!

mace1229

josevolution said:

I’m hoping Biden will come out and make statement against this kind of violence!

No doubt he will. But will probably be after Trump’s condition is confirmed as well as more details of the event. I wouldn’t expect anything for a few hours.

gimmesometruth27

Biden

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

I’m hoping Biden will come out and make statement against this kind of violence!

No doubt he will. But will probably be after Trump’s condition is confirmed as well as more details of the event. I wouldn’t expect anything for a few hours.

you really don't think a sitting president will come out and make a statement denouncing political violence? he has to. it is presidenting 101.

mace1229

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

I’m hoping Biden will come out and make statement against this kind of violence!

No doubt he will. But will probably be after Trump’s condition is confirmed as well as more details of the event. I wouldn’t expect anything for a few hours.

you really don't think a sitting president will come out and make a statement denouncing political violence? he has to. it is presidenting 101.

Yes, I said no doubt he will.
You probably read it as “no, doubt he will.” 

gimmesometruth27

Biden

biden already sent out a press release condemning it.

part of it reads "There's no place for this kind of violence in America. We must unite as one nation to condemn it."

tbergs

Biden

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

I’m hoping Biden will come out and make statement against this kind of violence!

No doubt he will. But will probably be after Trump’s condition is confirmed as well as more details of the event. I wouldn’t expect anything for a few hours.

you really don't think a sitting president will come out and make a statement denouncing political violence? he has to. it is presidenting 101.

Yes, I said no doubt he will.

Already did.

gimmesometruth27

Biden

mace1229 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mace1229 said:

josevolution said:

I’m hoping Biden will come out and make statement against this kind of violence!

No doubt he will. But will probably be after Trump’s condition is confirmed as well as more details of the event. I wouldn’t expect anything for a few hours.

you really don't think a sitting president will come out and make a statement denouncing political violence? he has to. it is presidenting 101.

Yes, I said no doubt he will.
You probably read it as “no, doubt he will.” 

yeah that's how i read it. i apologize. i read it as "i doubt he will". sorry.

jimjam1982

Trump

gimmesometruth27 said:

biden already sent out a press release condemning it.

part of it reads "There's no place for this kind of violence in America. We must unite as one nation to condemn it."

His handlers sent out the presser. He mumbled some shit about ice cream and zelensky or putin he's not sure 

shecky

jimjam1982

Trump

shecky said:

Trumps more composed after an assassination attempt then Joey with a full team of handlers and no pressure. America sees this to be truth. 

mickeyrat

Biden

jimjam1982 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

biden already sent out a press release condemning it.

part of it reads "There's no place for this kind of violence in America. We must unite as one nation to condemn it."

His handlers sent out the presser. He mumbled some shit about ice cream and zelensky or putin he's not sure 

really.

https://youtu.be/MR_ey3e4yJQ?si=B_iUSjLCoOyR4Ghp