Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

Hi!

Biden

Joe Biden could shoot me on 5th Ave. and I’d still vote for him.

lol, stole that from an article I was reading earlier this weekend.

Gern Blansten

Biden

cutz said:

Thanks for that  article^^^^, Jose^^^^

I just thought I'd Post a portion of that article:

Trump actually tweeted on June 22: "Rigged 2020 election: millions of mail-in ballots will be printed by foreign countries, and others. It will be the scandal of our times!" With this, Trump has begun to lay the groundwork for the step-by-step process by which he holds on to the presidency after he has clearly lost the election:

1. Biden wins the popular vote, and carries the key swing states of Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania by decent but not overwhelming margins.
2. Trump immediately declares that the voting was rigged, that there was mail-in ballot fraud and that the Chinese were behind a plan to provide fraudulent mail-in ballots and other "election hacking" throughout the four key swing states that gave Biden his victory.
3. Having railed against the Chinese throughout the campaign, calling Biden "soft on China," Trump delivers his narrative claiming the Chinese have interfered in the U.S. election.
4. Trump indicates this is a major national security issue, and he invokes emergency powers, directing the Justice Department to investigate the alleged activity in the swing states. The legal justification for the presidential powers he invokes has already been developed and issued by Barr.
5. The investigation is intended to tick down the clock toward December 14, the deadline when each state's Electoral College electors must be appointed. This is the very issue that the Supreme Court harped on in Bush v. Gore in ruling that the election process had to be brought to a close, thus forbidding the further counting of Florida ballots.
6. All four swing states have Republican control of both their upper and lower houses of their state legislatures. Those state legislatures refuse to allow any Electoral College slate to be certified until the "national security" investigation is complete.
7. The Democrats will have begun a legal action to certify the results in those four states, and the appointment of the Biden slate of electors, arguing that Trump has manufactured a national security emergency in order to create the ensuing chaos.
8. The issue goes up to the Supreme Court, which unlike the 2000 election does not decide the election in favor of the Republicans. However, it indicates again that the December 14 Electoral College deadline must be met; that the president's national security powers legally authorize him to investigate potential foreign country intrusion into the national election; and if no Electoral College slate can be certified by any state by December 14, the Electoral College must meet anyway and cast its votes.
9. The Electoral College meets, and without the electors from those four states being represented, neither Biden nor Trump has sufficient votes to get an Electoral College majority.
10. The election is thrown into the House of Representatives, pursuant to the Constitution. Under the relevant constitutional process, the vote in the House is by state delegation, where each delegation casts one vote, which is determined by the majority of the representatives in that state.
11. Currently, there are 26 states that have a majority Republican House delegation. 23 states have a majority Democratic delegation. There is one state, Pennsylvania, that has an evenly split delegation. Even if the Democrats were to pick up seats in Pennsylvania and hold all their 2018 House gains, the Republicans would have a 26 to 24 delegation majority.
12. This vote would enable Trump to retain the presidency.

I see it as more of a narrative for him to step away without admitting defeat.  I don't really see a case where he stays on....he did the same thing in 2016.  He thought he was going to lose so he throws out the fraud narrative...yet, he won.  

The fraud narrative let's him and his family claim victory until they leave the earth...because they didn't really lose if they don't admit it.

Honestly...can you imagine tRump giving a concession speech?  Not going to happen.  Very unlikely tRump even appears for the inauguration speech.

JimmyV

Biden

Hi! said:

Joe Biden could shoot me on 5th Ave. and I’d still vote for him.

lol, stole that from an article I was reading earlier this weekend.

Glorified KC

Biden

gimmesometruth27 said:

pjl44 said:

This seems like bad news for the incumbent

i did not look at it too closely at first. i thought the red was a visual representation of papa john's career.

He's making a comeback though! Check out his TikTok...

https://www.buzzfeed.com/lyapalater/papa-john-is-on-tiktok-showing-off-how-rich-he-is-and-im

OnWis97

Biden

I don't think any president (certainly not one in my lifetime) has ever tried so hard to divide the country. The country has been divided (Vietnam war and civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s, for sure) but while I won't speak to Andrew Jackson or Chester A. Arthur, I don't think any president has even been a tenth as intentionally divisive as Trump over the last 100 years. People (not me, but people) tend to like positivity and Trump's inauguration, his Mount Rushmore speech, and almost all others are dark and depressing.  Reagan and W thrived on foreign enemies to exhausting levels, but I never imagined I see someone so dependent on domestic enemies. 

While this election is not really about Biden and my primary hope for him is that he appears healthy, is unable to sniff hair (thank you, Covid), and doesn't have too many memorable gaffes, I'm starting to think  his primary message should be to counter this division. He should talk about the role of the office in bringing the country together and cite examples from past presidents, Democrat and Republican. That needs to be the message: Trump is trying to divide us and I'm going to try to bring us together. I suppose that will upset some of the hard-left but generally, if Trump keeps digging his heels in on vilifying nearly half the country and Biden does a good job of saying this needs to stop and I'm going to stop it, it should work.  And if it doesn't, it just confirms that all hope his lost.

Gern Blansten

Biden

OnWis97 said:

I don't think any president (certainly not one in my lifetime) has ever tried so hard to divide the country. The country has been divided (Vietnam war and civil rights in the 1950s and 1960s, for sure) but while I won't speak to Andrew Jackson or Chester A. Arthur, I don't think any president has even been a tenth as intentionally divisive as Trump over the last 100 years. People (not me, but people) tend to like positivity and Trump's inauguration, his Mount Rushmore speech, and almost all others are dark and depressing.  Reagan and W thrived on foreign enemies to exhausting levels, but I never imagined I see someone so dependent on domestic enemies. 

While this election is not really about Biden and my primary hope for him is that he appears healthy, is unable to sniff hair (thank you, Covid), and doesn't have too many memorable gaffes, I'm starting to think  his primary message should be to counter this division. He should talk about the role of the office in bringing the country together and cite examples from past presidents, Democrat and Republican. That needs to be the message: Trump is trying to divide us and I'm going to try to bring us together. I suppose that will upset some of the hard-left but generally, if Trump keeps digging his heels in on vilifying nearly half the country and Biden does a good job of saying this needs to stop and I'm going to stop it, it should work.  And if it doesn't, it just confirms that all hope his lost.

It's unreal....he used a July 4th speech at a national monument to blast democrats rather than try to unite the fucking country on its birthday.

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

benjs

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Trump may be a symptom of division but like hell he isn't causing any of his own. Anyone and everyone can see that. 

Ledbetterman10

Biden

When is Biden going to name his running-mate? Late July like Hillary did? 

static111

Biden

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

Bentleyspop

Biden

cincybearcat said:

The sitting president just used his July 4th speech to declare war on Americans. Let that sink in.

Getting rid of the “undesirables”.  This rhetoric has been used by strongmen before. Their countries ended up failing.

"The sitting  president " doesn't care about you or me or his voters or any Americans for that matter.
He only cares about himself

Glorified KC

Biden

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

I feel a lot of what comes out of Trump's mouth is aimed at hanging onto what he has left in his base.  I think he realizes if he wavers on his message, that he may lose enough votes to not win the Electoral College.  There isn't much of a chance he gets the popular vote, shit he lost the popular vote in 2016 by over 2M votes.

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

Yeah I agree that calling him a symptom is soft pedaling it. He is an accelerant, gas to the fire, match to the kindling, etc.  

I disagree that Biden can turn votes.  He absolutely can and he is already, particularly among Catholics in the midwest who are not nearly as wed to Trump as Evangelicals.  The polling already shows Trumps losing white Catholics to Biden, a demo that he really ate up in 16. 

tbergs

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

Yeah I agree that calling him a symptom is soft pedaling it. He is an accelerant, gas to the fire, match to the kindling, etc.  

I disagree that Biden can turn votes.  He absolutely can and he is already, particularly among Catholics in the midwest who are not nearly as wed to Trump as Evangelicals.  The polling already shows Trumps losing white Catholics to Biden, a demo that he really ate up in 16. 

I definitely think if Biden keeps from blaming entire factions of political parties, he can gain significant support from more conservative voters who may see him as closer to Reagan, who for whatever reason seems to be adored by many older Americans, especially those of the traditional republican party. Biden already has the left, he needs to push the needle to the right more to secure those people who vote purely on policy and not the person. If he seems less extreme and more willing to meet the needs of the angry middle class white folks in rural areas, he will sway them to avoid captain diarrhea mouth. Forget about his base who love to focus on fear and loathing of the other (like my relatives unfortunately, they are a lost cause.

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

benjs said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Trump may be a symptom of division but like hell he isn't causing any of his own. Anyone and everyone can see that. 

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

He is absolutely stoking it. Like I said, he leans into it in a galling way. What I'm saying is that voting in Biden isn't going to move the needle on bringing us together. It's a much deeper problem than who's in the White House. 

OnWis97

Biden

pjl44 said:

benjs said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Trump may be a symptom of division but like hell he isn't causing any of his own. Anyone and everyone can see that. 

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

He is absolutely stoking it. Like I said, he leans into it in a galling way. What I'm saying is that voting in Biden isn't going to move the needle on bringing us together. It's a much deeper problem than who's in the White House. 

I didn’t say he’d move the needle...I said it should be his primary theme.  His intention should be to move the needle; if it doesn’t move it should not be for lack of effort... but at the very least he can slow The current trajectory simply by not being Trump.

I don’t think that much of Biden...but just about anyone outside of Trump-licking Republicans can set a better tone.The needle can’t move until Trump is out and the obvious rhetoric is right in front of him.

Halifax2TheMax

OnWis97 said:

pjl44 said:

benjs said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Trump may be a symptom of division but like hell he isn't causing any of his own. Anyone and everyone can see that. 

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

He is absolutely stoking it. Like I said, he leans into it in a galling way. What I'm saying is that voting in Biden isn't going to move the needle on bringing us together. It's a much deeper problem than who's in the White House. 

I didn’t say he’d move the needle...I said it should be his primary theme.  His intention should be to move the needle; if it doesn’t move it should not be for k ok ack of effort... but at the very least he can slow The current trajectory simply by not being Trump.

I don’t think that much of Biden...but just about anyone outside of Trump-licking Republicans can set a better tone.The needle can’t move until Trump is out and the obvious rhetoric is right in front of him.

I think Sleepy Woke Joe, and depending on his VP pick, can move the needle. With a dem dominate house and his knowledge and relationships in the senate, he can stand his ground or compromise to get things done, even with a slim repub majority. The blind loyalty to Team Trump Treason and the fear of a Team Trump Treason endorsed primary from the right goes away with Team Trump Treason indicted out of office and with a dem senate, everything changes.

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

OnWis97 said:

pjl44 said:

benjs said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Trump may be a symptom of division but like hell he isn't causing any of his own. Anyone and everyone can see that. 

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

He is absolutely stoking it. Like I said, he leans into it in a galling way. What I'm saying is that voting in Biden isn't going to move the needle on bringing us together. It's a much deeper problem than who's in the White House. 

I didn’t say he’d move the needle...I said it should be his primary theme.  His intention should be to move the needle; if it doesn’t move it should not be for lack of effort... but at the very least he can slow The current trajectory simply by not being Trump.

I don’t think that much of Biden...but just about anyone outside of Trump-licking Republicans can set a better tone.The needle can’t move until Trump is out and the obvious rhetoric is right in front of him.

I guess? I think this is too Trump-focused though, as many things tend to be.

OnWis97

Biden

pjl44 said:

OnWis97 said:

pjl44 said:

benjs said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Trump may be a symptom of division but like hell he isn't causing any of his own. Anyone and everyone can see that. 

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

Biden isn't unifying anything. He can say that if he wants, but no one who isn't already voting for him is gonna buy it. Trump isn't causing division, he's a symptom of it. The only thing that's remarkable is how he leans into it like a complete asshole. Past Presidents and Presidential candidates had the decency(?) to save it for private speeches so they could talk about being misquoted later.

Agree on Biden.  Disagree that Trump isn’t doing any dividing of his own.  Yes he is a symptom, but he is also a mega phone amplifying the message , I mean have you ever heard his speeches?

He is absolutely stoking it. Like I said, he leans into it in a galling way. What I'm saying is that voting in Biden isn't going to move the needle on bringing us together. It's a much deeper problem than who's in the White House. 

I didn’t say he’d move the needle...I said it should be his primary theme.  His intention should be to move the needle; if it doesn’t move it should not be for lack of effort... but at the very least he can slow The current trajectory simply by not being Trump.

I don’t think that much of Biden...but just about anyone outside of Trump-licking Republicans can set a better tone.The needle can’t move until Trump is out and the obvious rhetoric is right in front of him.

I guess? I think this is too Trump-focused though, as many things tend to be.

The election is going to be Trump-focused. And try as you might to make it about "the issues" where the GOP is slightly better (from the libertarian perspective) I don't even think we have the luxury to debate that stuff. The person running for re-election is an absolute disgrace and his party, which has taken on his persona is in a position to become the only viable party (maybe it already is). The impacts of having the most important person in this country villanizing his own constituents simply to rile up his biggest fans are going to be enormous. Most of them are able to dismiss everything they read/see that doesn't meet Trump's narrative as a liberal media conspiracy.  "The issues?" There's one issue for me; authoritarianism...and we're on our way.

The Juggler

Biden

Bentleyspop said:

cincybearcat said:

The sitting president just used his July 4th speech to declare war on Americans. Let that sink in.

Getting rid of the “undesirables”.  This rhetoric has been used by strongmen before. Their countries ended up failing.

"The sitting  president " doesn't care about you or me or his voters or any Americans for that matter.
He only cares about himself

Sitting Bullshit