How do you think Coronavirus will change the world?

what dreams

About ten years ago when I was going through cancer treatment, I said to myself all the time, "This has changed me. From now on I will be more this and more that and do less of this or that. I will never see the world the same again."  It didn't take long after I went into remission that most of my bad habits returned -- even smoking! -- and I realized I am pretty much who I am, cancer or not.
Someone said it earlier. There will have to be massive loss of life before any dramatic changes occur in the way society works. There may be incremental changes in how we operate. I've never been one to believe in the "we study history in order not to repeat it." We repeat history all the time (genocide, anyone?). This will not be the last time the world is unprepared for a crisis.

what dreams

myoung321 said:

mace1229 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

mace1229 said:

One  thing I think will change is school closures. After 2+ months of distance learning under our belts by the end of this year, I think more school will move to distance learning instead of snow days. Some school around here already have. I know we didn’t take a few snow days because we were worried about having to make up minutes. This might push more schools and districts to using this model more regularly. Maybe even not just snow days, but possibly when X number of students come down with the flu in the future they can do it for a week. Or many other random events, school threats, plumbing problems, etc.

I think changes will be more subtle like this.  Honestly, many schools could have been better prepared with the tools they already put in place (many aren’t so fortunate, so hopefully that will change).  At my kids school they all get chrome books to borrow, yet 3/4 of the teachers still make them carry books and rarely even post homework assignments.  It was ridiculous they had to take a week to teach the teachers how to use and leverage the tools our tax dollars have been paying for years. 

maybe now, we will see our kids not carry 50 lbs of books bc our teachers will finally catch up with the times in districts that have enabled them. Then we can have hope and fund districts that don’t.   

To stick up for teachers I know many prefer hard copies for several reasons. There’s always tech trouble with online stuff. I’ve never once had a parent email me and say the book won’t open to page 106. Kids misuse tech all the time, so it’s way easier management for hard copies as well. And with my school we all experienced far better turnout for work and homework if we handed out a hard copy in class rather than posting something online.

And the week we gave teachers was because it is a lot to transition from a small portion of your class online to 100% online. We not only have to figure out how to use the tech, which many of us did, but relay that info to students and parents. How is grading set up, how can they get help, etc

 no disrespect, but you're kinda starting to sound like the guy that said those new fangled motor vehicles will never replace the rock solid dependable wagons & horses.. 

Here's an idea... If the kids aren't using the tech correctly, then maybe they aren't being taught properly? How can we compete globally if there's an excuse for something like this? Basically you're saying "Kids and their parents are too stupid to do it online" 

The equipment we use in schools in mostly crap. Our servers are slow, we have one tech specialist for over 1500 users, when one student's machine breaks, it might be weeks before he gets it back. The kids know every trick in the book to get around firewalls to play Minecraft or download porn, many of them think it's hilarious to take it apart piece by piece, I've seen kids throw their laptops across the room at each other . . . all this in spite of signing an agreement, told they will be charged a fee, being taught protocols, modeling best practices, active monitoring in the room, etc. 
These are not excuses, but let me ask -- do you have children? Do they have toys? Do they ever throw their toys? Break them? Use them for a purpose they are not supposed to be used for? This is what kids do. So, we can teach them as "properly" as you deem "proper," but they are kids. Not everybody is as wonderful a parent as you are, I guess. You really should go into teaching. You've got it all under control.

what dreams

myoung321 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

myoung321 said:

mace1229 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

mace1229 said:

One  thing I think will change is school closures. After 2+ months of distance learning under our belts by the end of this year, I think more school will move to distance learning instead of snow days. Some school around here already have. I know we didn’t take a few snow days because we were worried about having to make up minutes. This might push more schools and districts to using this model more regularly. Maybe even not just snow days, but possibly when X number of students come down with the flu in the future they can do it for a week. Or many other random events, school threats, plumbing problems, etc.

I think changes will be more subtle like this.  Honestly, many schools could have been better prepared with the tools they already put in place (many aren’t so fortunate, so hopefully that will change).  At my kids school they all get chrome books to borrow, yet 3/4 of the teachers still make them carry books and rarely even post homework assignments.  It was ridiculous they had to take a week to teach the teachers how to use and leverage the tools our tax dollars have been paying for years. 

maybe now, we will see our kids not carry 50 lbs of books bc our teachers will finally catch up with the times in districts that have enabled them. Then we can have hope and fund districts that don’t.   

To stick up for teachers I know many prefer hard copies for several reasons. There’s always tech trouble with online stuff. I’ve never once had a parent email me and say the book won’t open to page 106. Kids misuse tech all the time, so it’s way easier management for hard copies as well. And with my school we all experienced far better turnout for work and homework if we handed out a hard copy in class rather than posting something online.

And the week we gave teachers was because it is a lot to transition from a small portion of your class online to 100% online. We not only have to figure out how to use the tech, which many of us did, but relay that info to students and parents. How is grading set up, how can they get help, etc

 no disrespect, but you're kinda starting to sound like the guy that said those new fangled motor vehicles will never replace the rock solid dependable wagons & horses.. 

Here's an idea... If the kids aren't using the tech correctly, then maybe they aren't being taught properly? How can we compete globally if there's an excuse for something like this? Basically you're saying "Kids and their parents are too stupid to do it online" 

All kids don't learn the same and the sooner the school board and government realizes that it would be better.

True.... which brings up a good point. The K-12 education system in the US is a product of the 19th and early 20th century.  It too came from events caused by class struggle which was magnified by the events of depression of the 1930's..... Time to rethink how we do it... ??

I'm pretty sure we all realize that not all kids learn the same. Many people in the system are open to change. As with every other massive institution that touches 100 million or so people, it's very difficult to get people to agree on how to do that.

When I was put on teach-from-home duty on March 6, I was super excited to experiment with digital learning. I sent an email to my team on Monday morning to get the ball rolling, only to have my admin immediately put on the breaks while the chiefs could make their decisions. There is much concern in education about this thing called "equity" and this pandemic put that front and center. In my high poverty district, the first priority was making sure students got fed with the current distancing practices in place. Then they had to make sure everyone had access to a computer and Internet connection at home -- and at my school alone, over 400 (out of 1200) students did not. So here we are a month later, and this is finally the week that students who need a computer will go to school and pick one up to borrow. Then there is the stark reality that not every parent is equally capable of supporting their student, for whatever reason, not for me to judge.

So these are just the issues now. But if we are to change how we do education, we as a nation would have to make sure it's done equitably because that is the Constitutional mandate of public education. How do you design a system where everyone gets what they need when resources are scarce and the public doesn't seem too thrilled about spending any more on public education, because apparently throwing money at the problem isn't what's needed (according to many critics of the way things are).

These are just questions I have. I'm open to change. I just think this is way more complicated than removing salad bars at restaurants and there will be lots of power struggles in deciding how change occurs.

Lerxst1992

brianlux said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

brianlux said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

How will it change the world? Well two months ago I felt there was no way Trump loses in November. Now with the pandemic, I think he’s toast. 

I surely hope that he looses but some polls say his approval rating has gone up and that does not build my confidence.

Jesus. That’s surprising. I haven’t been paying much attention to approval ratings or even to Biden/Bernie (cause it’s over, Bernie) but man, you would think this would be hurting him. Even if Trump wasn’t to blame for the response to the virus (he is, but for a moment pretend he’s not), if the president gets credit for stuff like a good economy, why doesn’t he get blame for a national medical emergency? Like if you’re out of work right now due to the virus, why not blame Trump? At least you can hold him accountable by voting. You can’t vote against a Chinese wet-market in an American election. 

I hear you!  It is very surprising that Trumps approval rating hasn't gone into the ditch.  I guess his supporters would follow him into hell if that's where he said they should go.  Ship of fools.

He does have his 40% no matter what. There is an interesting poll from Florida which is his top swing state:

” Among those surveyed from March 31 through April 4, 53 percent do not approve of Trump’s handling of the coronavirus pandemic, compared to 45 percent who do. A key problem for Trump is that a majority of Floridians, 58 percent, don’t trust him to provide reliable information about the pandemic.”

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/04/06/new-poll-show-coronavirus-taking-toll-on-president-trump-in-battleground-state-1272327

mace1229

what dreams said:

myoung321 said:

mace1229 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

mace1229 said:

One  thing I think will change is school closures. After 2+ months of distance learning under our belts by the end of this year, I think more school will move to distance learning instead of snow days. Some school around here already have. I know we didn’t take a few snow days because we were worried about having to make up minutes. This might push more schools and districts to using this model more regularly. Maybe even not just snow days, but possibly when X number of students come down with the flu in the future they can do it for a week. Or many other random events, school threats, plumbing problems, etc.

I think changes will be more subtle like this.  Honestly, many schools could have been better prepared with the tools they already put in place (many aren’t so fortunate, so hopefully that will change).  At my kids school they all get chrome books to borrow, yet 3/4 of the teachers still make them carry books and rarely even post homework assignments.  It was ridiculous they had to take a week to teach the teachers how to use and leverage the tools our tax dollars have been paying for years. 

maybe now, we will see our kids not carry 50 lbs of books bc our teachers will finally catch up with the times in districts that have enabled them. Then we can have hope and fund districts that don’t.   

To stick up for teachers I know many prefer hard copies for several reasons. There’s always tech trouble with online stuff. I’ve never once had a parent email me and say the book won’t open to page 106. Kids misuse tech all the time, so it’s way easier management for hard copies as well. And with my school we all experienced far better turnout for work and homework if we handed out a hard copy in class rather than posting something online.

And the week we gave teachers was because it is a lot to transition from a small portion of your class online to 100% online. We not only have to figure out how to use the tech, which many of us did, but relay that info to students and parents. How is grading set up, how can they get help, etc

 no disrespect, but you're kinda starting to sound like the guy that said those new fangled motor vehicles will never replace the rock solid dependable wagons & horses.. 

Here's an idea... If the kids aren't using the tech correctly, then maybe they aren't being taught properly? How can we compete globally if there's an excuse for something like this? Basically you're saying "Kids and their parents are too stupid to do it online" 

The equipment we use in schools in mostly crap. Our servers are slow, we have one tech specialist for over 1500 users, when one student's machine breaks, it might be weeks before he gets it back. The kids know every trick in the book to get around firewalls to play Minecraft or download porn, many of them think it's hilarious to take it apart piece by piece, I've seen kids throw their laptops across the room at each other . . . all this in spite of signing an agreement, told they will be charged a fee, being taught protocols, modeling best practices, active monitoring in the room, etc. 
These are not excuses, but let me ask -- do you have children? Do they have toys? Do they ever throw their toys? Break them? Use them for a purpose they are not supposed to be used for? This is what kids do. So, we can teach them as "properly" as you deem "proper," but they are kids. Not everybody is as wonderful a parent as you are, I guess. You really should go into teaching. You've got it all under control.

Agree! Even though I think you were defending my post so it’s redundant. How kids treat computers when they aren’t theirs is a joke. Especially since it’s discrimination to hold kids financially responsible. But Ive seen kids tear up text books even though there was an “agreement” to pay for damages. They treat computers the same, because in the end the school really can’t charge them. I mean, they can ask, but if they don’t pay there’s really nothing the school can do. 

josevolution

It def has changed most of normal activities..

stuckinline

When everything is uncertain, everything that is important becomes clear....

Matts3221

what dreams said:

About ten years ago when I was going through cancer treatment, I said to myself all the time, "This has changed me. From now on I will be more this and more that and do less of this or that. I will never see the world the same again."  It didn't take long after I went into remission that most of my bad habits returned -- even smoking! -- and I realized I am pretty much who I am, cancer or not.
Someone said it earlier. There will have to be massive loss of life before any dramatic changes occur in the way society works. There may be incremental changes in how we operate. I've never been one to believe in the "we study history in order not to repeat it." We repeat history all the time (genocide, anyone?). This will not be the last time the world is unprepared for a crisis.

Reading this made me think of a somewhat similar experience ( not cancer ) , around 2004 I had to have major surgery on my left kidney and during the surgery my kidney burst , I was in ICU for two days and have little to no memory of it , I was then in the hospital for 10 days recovery ( was only supposed to be there 3 day total ) and another few weeks recovering at home.

When I first woke up and was speaking to my family after getting out of ICU , I thought my god why did I say I would catch up with this person another time or not go out with friends because I wanted to get a few extra hours of sleep , that I was working at a job that I hated ( management at Bank Of America ). I said I would never go back , I did leave that job and have worked at a non-profit for years but you just kind of get back into the habits you have.

Talking to my mom every night on Facetime I still get angry with myself that right before this happened she asked if I wanted to stop by for dinner and I was just tired from work and said " another time"

CM189191

OnWis97

Matts3221 said:

what dreams said:

About ten years ago when I was going through cancer treatment, I said to myself all the time, "This has changed me. From now on I will be more this and more that and do less of this or that. I will never see the world the same again."  It didn't take long after I went into remission that most of my bad habits returned -- even smoking! -- and I realized I am pretty much who I am, cancer or not.
Someone said it earlier. There will have to be massive loss of life before any dramatic changes occur in the way society works. There may be incremental changes in how we operate. I've never been one to believe in the "we study history in order not to repeat it." We repeat history all the time (genocide, anyone?). This will not be the last time the world is unprepared for a crisis.

Reading this made me think of a somewhat similar experience ( not cancer ) , around 2004 I had to have major surgery on my left kidney and during the surgery my kidney burst , I was in ICU for two days and have little to no memory of it , I was then in the hospital for 10 days recovery ( was only supposed to be there 3 day total ) and another few weeks recovering at home.

When I first woke up and was speaking to my family after getting out of ICU , I thought my god why did I say I would catch up with this person another time or not go out with friends because I wanted to get a few extra hours of sleep , that I was working at a job that I hated ( management at Bank Of America ). I said I would never go back , I did leave that job and have worked at a non-profit for years but you just kind of get back into the habits you have.

Talking to my mom every night on Facetime I still get angry with myself that right before this happened she asked if I wanted to stop by for dinner and I was just tired from work and said " another time"

I agree with the main points that it's going to be easy for people, and larger society to fall back into old habits.  Look at the cleaner air...I really don't think people are going to maintain their reduced driving behaviors once things are "normal."  There will be some small changes...maybe some employers (for employees who have work-at-home as an option) will be forceful in discouraging people from coming to the office when sick...things like that.  But things that don't relate directly to what's going on (like travel behaviors, cherishing time with family, less time in the rat-race, etc.) are likely to revert back.

All that said, specific to your situation, people have to look out for themselves...If I allowed her to, my mom would suck the life right out of me.  That dinner you missed?  Sometimes people have to do that.  Eddie gets it (see "Alright")

brianlux

OnWis97 said:

Matts3221 said:

what dreams said:

About ten years ago when I was going through cancer treatment, I said to myself all the time, "This has changed me. From now on I will be more this and more that and do less of this or that. I will never see the world the same again."  It didn't take long after I went into remission that most of my bad habits returned -- even smoking! -- and I realized I am pretty much who I am, cancer or not.
Someone said it earlier. There will have to be massive loss of life before any dramatic changes occur in the way society works. There may be incremental changes in how we operate. I've never been one to believe in the "we study history in order not to repeat it." We repeat history all the time (genocide, anyone?). This will not be the last time the world is unprepared for a crisis.

Reading this made me think of a somewhat similar experience ( not cancer ) , around 2004 I had to have major surgery on my left kidney and during the surgery my kidney burst , I was in ICU for two days and have little to no memory of it , I was then in the hospital for 10 days recovery ( was only supposed to be there 3 day total ) and another few weeks recovering at home.

When I first woke up and was speaking to my family after getting out of ICU , I thought my god why did I say I would catch up with this person another time or not go out with friends because I wanted to get a few extra hours of sleep , that I was working at a job that I hated ( management at Bank Of America ). I said I would never go back , I did leave that job and have worked at a non-profit for years but you just kind of get back into the habits you have.

Talking to my mom every night on Facetime I still get angry with myself that right before this happened she asked if I wanted to stop by for dinner and I was just tired from work and said " another time"

I agree with the main points that it's going to be easy for people, and larger society to fall back into old habits.  Look at the cleaner air...I really don't think people are going to maintain their reduced driving behaviors once things are "normal."  There will be some small changes...maybe some employers (for employees who have work-at-home as an option) will be forceful in discouraging people from coming to the office when sick...things like that.  But things that don't relate directly to what's going on (like travel behaviors, cherishing time with family, less time in the rat-race, etc.) are likely to revert back.

All that said, specific to your situation, people have to look out for themselves...If I allowed her to, my mom would suck the life right out of me.  That dinner you missed?  Sometimes people have to do that.  Eddie gets it (see "Alright")

"I really don't think people are going to maintain their reduced driving behaviors once things are "normal." "

I've thought about that myself.  I think people will definitely up their average daily mileage once this is over but I think driving and travel in general will be reduced from what it was B.C.. 

I can't imagine big cruise ships will be the thing they once were.  Someone smart and with big bucks should take some of those ships and permanently dry dock or land them and turn them into huge hotel/entertainment centers rather than floating germ factories. 

I don't see people flying as much as they used to- at least in part because I think most people will be less well off (and the brunt of that will be felt by the poor and people with lower incomes). 

If we here in the U.S. were smart (generally we are not) we would seize this opportunity to revive our railway system.  We would be fools to not do that.

cincybearcat

brianlux said:

OnWis97 said:

Matts3221 said:

what dreams said:

About ten years ago when I was going through cancer treatment, I said to myself all the time, "This has changed me. From now on I will be more this and more that and do less of this or that. I will never see the world the same again."  It didn't take long after I went into remission that most of my bad habits returned -- even smoking! -- and I realized I am pretty much who I am, cancer or not.
Someone said it earlier. There will have to be massive loss of life before any dramatic changes occur in the way society works. There may be incremental changes in how we operate. I've never been one to believe in the "we study history in order not to repeat it." We repeat history all the time (genocide, anyone?). This will not be the last time the world is unprepared for a crisis.

Reading this made me think of a somewhat similar experience ( not cancer ) , around 2004 I had to have major surgery on my left kidney and during the surgery my kidney burst , I was in ICU for two days and have little to no memory of it , I was then in the hospital for 10 days recovery ( was only supposed to be there 3 day total ) and another few weeks recovering at home.

When I first woke up and was speaking to my family after getting out of ICU , I thought my god why did I say I would catch up with this person another time or not go out with friends because I wanted to get a few extra hours of sleep , that I was working at a job that I hated ( management at Bank Of America ). I said I would never go back , I did leave that job and have worked at a non-profit for years but you just kind of get back into the habits you have.

Talking to my mom every night on Facetime I still get angry with myself that right before this happened she asked if I wanted to stop by for dinner and I was just tired from work and said " another time"

I agree with the main points that it's going to be easy for people, and larger society to fall back into old habits.  Look at the cleaner air...I really don't think people are going to maintain their reduced driving behaviors once things are "normal."  There will be some small changes...maybe some employers (for employees who have work-at-home as an option) will be forceful in discouraging people from coming to the office when sick...things like that.  But things that don't relate directly to what's going on (like travel behaviors, cherishing time with family, less time in the rat-race, etc.) are likely to revert back.

All that said, specific to your situation, people have to look out for themselves...If I allowed her to, my mom would suck the life right out of me.  That dinner you missed?  Sometimes people have to do that.  Eddie gets it (see "Alright")

"I really don't think people are going to maintain their reduced driving behaviors once things are "normal." "

I've thought about that myself.  I think people will definitely up their average daily mileage once this is over but I think driving and travel in general will be reduced from what it was B.C.. 

I can't imagine big cruise ships will be the thing they once were.  Someone smart and with big bucks should take some of those ships and permanently dry dock or land them and turn them into huge hotel/entertainment centers rather than floating germ factories. 

I don't see people flying as much as they used to- at least in part because I think most people will be less well off (and the brunt of that will be felt by the poor and people with lower incomes). 

If we here in the U.S. were smart (generally we are not) we would seize this opportunity to revive our railway system.  We would be fools to not do that.

You know - I always hear about the "floating germ factories".  How is this any different than all the people in cities living on top of each other, cramming into subways, etc.

I've been on a number of cruises...sure anytime you are in closer quarters with people risk goes up, but lets not pretend it's some forgone conclusion that when there is no pandemic virus that is attacking everyone that cruises are somehow more dangerous than living on top of your neighbors in NYC, LA, Chicago, London, Rome...and on and on and on.  

cincybearcat

And railways...better for the environment...way worse during a pandemic.  So, why would a pandemic have that effect?

rgambs

^^^^ Because transit is necessary and cruise vacations are just recreation.

Shitty recreation lol

rgambs

Also, people share space temporarily in transit, in (shitty) recreation they eat together, sleep together, swim together, and share many more facilities/equipment.

OnWis97

cincybearcat said:

And railways...better for the environment...way worse during a pandemic.  So, why would a pandemic have that effect?

The idea is that we're going to back to normal.  If so, we're looking at an opportunity to see how good things could be.

And that's really the question...ARE we going to go back to normal?  I live in an urban condo within feet of a light rail transit line I've ridden almost every weekday from June 2014 through last month.  One-care household and my wife drives for work. Now I have to decide whether I'm going to take that to the office once I get to start going in.  Ugh.  My long-run hope is that I'll be riding it every day after there's a vaccine.  In the interim, I'm not quite sure what I'll be doing.

And man, I hope we do go back to normal.  Because it's not feasible to suburbanize all of the people in big cities.  And it's not sustainable to make sure each of them drives.

Thoughts_Arrive

I hope we see the end of neoliberalism and the CCP.

stuckinline

OnWis97 said:

cincybearcat said:

And railways...better for the environment...way worse during a pandemic.  So, why would a pandemic have that effect?

The idea is that we're going to back to normal.  If so, we're looking at an opportunity to see how good things could be.

And that's really the question...ARE we going to go back to normal?  I live in an urban condo within feet of a light rail transit line I've ridden almost every weekday from June 2014 through last month.  One-care household and my wife drives for work. Now I have to decide whether I'm going to take that to the office once I get to start going in.  Ugh.  My long-run hope is that I'll be riding it every day after there's a vaccine.  In the interim, I'm not quite sure what I'll be doing.

And man, I hope we do go back to normal.  Because it's not feasible to suburbanize all of the people in big cities.  And it's not sustainable to make sure each of them drives.

Agree with your question, 'Are we going to go back to normal?' I think it will be a 'new' normal for a while. From everything I've read, concerts and large events will be postponed until 2021. Many schools are not planning to open until the fall of 2020. Ohioans have been urged to keep wearing masks for possibly up to one year.

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

OnWis97 said:

Matts3221 said:

what dreams said:

About ten years ago when I was going through cancer treatment, I said to myself all the time, "This has changed me. From now on I will be more this and more that and do less of this or that. I will never see the world the same again."  It didn't take long after I went into remission that most of my bad habits returned -- even smoking! -- and I realized I am pretty much who I am, cancer or not.
Someone said it earlier. There will have to be massive loss of life before any dramatic changes occur in the way society works. There may be incremental changes in how we operate. I've never been one to believe in the "we study history in order not to repeat it." We repeat history all the time (genocide, anyone?). This will not be the last time the world is unprepared for a crisis.

Reading this made me think of a somewhat similar experience ( not cancer ) , around 2004 I had to have major surgery on my left kidney and during the surgery my kidney burst , I was in ICU for two days and have little to no memory of it , I was then in the hospital for 10 days recovery ( was only supposed to be there 3 day total ) and another few weeks recovering at home.

When I first woke up and was speaking to my family after getting out of ICU , I thought my god why did I say I would catch up with this person another time or not go out with friends because I wanted to get a few extra hours of sleep , that I was working at a job that I hated ( management at Bank Of America ). I said I would never go back , I did leave that job and have worked at a non-profit for years but you just kind of get back into the habits you have.

Talking to my mom every night on Facetime I still get angry with myself that right before this happened she asked if I wanted to stop by for dinner and I was just tired from work and said " another time"

I agree with the main points that it's going to be easy for people, and larger society to fall back into old habits.  Look at the cleaner air...I really don't think people are going to maintain their reduced driving behaviors once things are "normal."  There will be some small changes...maybe some employers (for employees who have work-at-home as an option) will be forceful in discouraging people from coming to the office when sick...things like that.  But things that don't relate directly to what's going on (like travel behaviors, cherishing time with family, less time in the rat-race, etc.) are likely to revert back.

All that said, specific to your situation, people have to look out for themselves...If I allowed her to, my mom would suck the life right out of me.  That dinner you missed?  Sometimes people have to do that.  Eddie gets it (see "Alright")

"I really don't think people are going to maintain their reduced driving behaviors once things are "normal." "

I've thought about that myself.  I think people will definitely up their average daily mileage once this is over but I think driving and travel in general will be reduced from what it was B.C.. 

I can't imagine big cruise ships will be the thing they once were.  Someone smart and with big bucks should take some of those ships and permanently dry dock or land them and turn them into huge hotel/entertainment centers rather than floating germ factories. 

I don't see people flying as much as they used to- at least in part because I think most people will be less well off (and the brunt of that will be felt by the poor and people with lower incomes). 

If we here in the U.S. were smart (generally we are not) we would seize this opportunity to revive our railway system.  We would be fools to not do that.

You know - I always hear about the "floating germ factories".  How is this any different than all the people in cities living on top of each other, cramming into subways, etc.

I've been on a number of cruises...sure anytime you are in closer quarters with people risk goes up, but lets not pretend it's some forgone conclusion that when there is no pandemic virus that is attacking everyone that cruises are somehow more dangerous than living on top of your neighbors in NYC, LA, Chicago, London, Rome...and on and on and on.  

I mentioned cruise ships as a part of the subject of travel as it relates to the future.  But, yes, to some degree people living on top of each other in big cities, or crammed in subways and planes are somewhat the same, but also different.  If a virus rages through an apartment building, you can leave.  Not so on a cruise ship.  The ship is a more closed system and ocean bound. 

I'm wasn't meaning to be critical of cruise ships (although if you ask my opinion, I easily could be).  But I do think after COVID-19 the cruise ship industry will see a major shrinkage.

brianlux

OnWis97 said:

cincybearcat said:

And railways...better for the environment...way worse during a pandemic.  So, why would a pandemic have that effect?

The idea is that we're going to back to normal.  If so, we're looking at an opportunity to see how good things could be.

And that's really the question...ARE we going to go back to normal?  I live in an urban condo within feet of a light rail transit line I've ridden almost every weekday from June 2014 through last month.  One-care household and my wife drives for work. Now I have to decide whether I'm going to take that to the office once I get to start going in.  Ugh.  My long-run hope is that I'll be riding it every day after there's a vaccine.  In the interim, I'm not quite sure what I'll be doing.

And man, I hope we do go back to normal.  Because it's not feasible to suburbanize all of the people in big cities.  And it's not sustainable to make sure each of them drives.

The question is, is suburbia sustainable?  I don't think so, but maybe somehow we will find a way to make it possible.  My doubts stem from seeing this documentary, one you might find interesting: