Seat Confirmations - Week of Jan. 27

ponytd

gettingright said:

mpedone said:

Lerxst1992 said:

PB11041 said:

Saltzy23 said:

pbultimate said:

Saltzy23 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.

It's absurd.

The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.

There is literally no reason to keep waiting.  Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.

I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.

Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr. 

is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?

It's a new thing for me as well.  I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.  

I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right. 

My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.

Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.  

Just, why?

that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice

Producer only sets the wholesale markets, not resale. 

In this case the producer is setting an artificially low price, and trying to prohibit the market to correct.

Then the producer is trying to artificially restrict resale supply, something that can not be successfully 100% accomplished.

So the result is that pairs of tickets that do squeeze out into the market, are 15 TIMES more expensive than comparable performer tickets.

Solution: producer sets an absurdly high price, like 15 times what the most expensive MSG ticket is going for now. There's no secondary market if there's no primary market!

The problem in price setting in this case is what the motive for the pricing is. If profit is the main motive, which is what we are accustomed to in a capitalist society, then every seat would have its own price according to its relative proximity to the stage because at a concert not all seats are equal in value.

This would allow the producer to capture the maximum amount of profit by creating an equilibrium price for each seat/section in the venue. Many producers have gone to this method to help squeeze secondary markets out and capture the profit lost to the secondary market. However, this comes with the social cost of appearing greedy by allowing only those with the financial means to access the market, which, for various reasons, buyers in the market place frown on severely. When it comes to purchasing art, social pressure on the artist is that they should make available the art to everyone equally regardless of true market value. Furthermore, a misconception also exists that those who have invested previous time and money are more deserving of the value than the artist, and should have access below market value. But, from a capitalist perspective, this is incorrect. Previous time and money spent on the product are not investments to be cashed in on later, but rather, sunk costs that have no future value. You got what you paid for when you paid for it, and there is no obligation from the seller to provide anything more in the future. (On a side note: this is the same principle when people expect sex in the future for monies spent on a date in the present, which I am (maybe) coining now as a "sexvestment." But, the same principle applies of a sunk cost vs. an investment - there should be no future expectations of increasing value).

Clearly, the main motive is not profit for this producer as they provide the best seats (and what would be most expensive seats) to their fan club members. So, in a sense, the band is providing value on past investment of time and money. This should create great joy among the group of buyers as they are essentially getting an extremely high value for the tickets, and are being rewarded for previous purchases. The problem is that when some have invested more over time, and are not selected for an item where demand exceeds supply, they have a strong sense that an injustice has taken place. What they fail to realize is that the very market the producer has created is, from a profit perspective, a total injustice to the producer. 

Lastly, once a purchase is able to be made, a buyer can seek to increase that value in a couple of ways. First, you can gain financially by reselling a ticket purchased at well below market value for true market value. Or, if a buyer gets GA tickets, they can seek to increase the experiential value of their ticket by lining up early to turn a potential 25th row seat into a maximum 1st row seat, which will really maximize their overall utility on the ticket purchased with the relatively small investment of time.

In conclusion, your previous expenses are not investments, but rather sunk costs for which you should not hope to gain any future value on. The producers (Pearl Jam), from a strictly profit perspective, have created a market place where they are the biggest losers. Furthermore, they have done their best to keep secondary sales to a minimum so that their lost profits don't get into others' hands, and that those who have invested their time and money over the years have access to the best seats at an extraordinarily low cost. So, even if you didn't get selected in the lottery, you should not only be not gutted, you should be thanking the band (unless you have a lot of money where you could afford to pay true market value) for the opportunity to purchase something at well below market value.

Sorry for the long post; I love economics.

Well said.

tdawe

mpedone said:

tdawe said:

mpedone said:

hihobibo said:

Saltzy23 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.

It's absurd.

The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.

There is literally no reason to keep waiting.  Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.

I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.

The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won. 

I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.

I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.

For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix. 

I will believe that about the MSG Tix when the F2F starts. I've seen enough reports about TM CSRs giving out erroneous info to not simply swallow it, especially not second- or third-hand. That said, I agree that it wouldn't make sense to sell tix to MSG there. My point in bringing it up was simply that I think there are many more people posting here looking to buy than are eager to sell, in contrast to what hihobibo posted.

Yes, there are way more "ISOs" posting on this board than people who are saying that they're going to sell, but it's not exactly a random sample. Now I don't think that there's going to be abundant tickets available on the exchanges, especially not for Baltimore, but I believe that there will be some. 

There are people on these boards who are hoping that, somehow, some way, MSG tickets become available for face value on a Ticketmaster-administered Fan To Fan Exchange. Even assuming that such an exchange exists, I haven't heard a great theory about how tickets would actually end up being sold on it. 

Foriginal Sin

rfherbst said:

Habit4me said:

Sorry gang but 705xxx GA PIT. Denver.

Wow.  Just curious - did you put in for BA or GA?

Yes please, do tell 

Foriginal Sin

PD279656 said:

The ticket prices on ebay are hilarious. 

Not as hilarious as the poster prices on eBay. Yet they all sell...

Lerxst1992

IlliniGuy76 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

PB11041 said:

Saltzy23 said:

pbultimate said:

Saltzy23 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.

It's absurd.

The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.

There is literally no reason to keep waiting.  Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.

I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.

Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr. 

is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?

It's a new thing for me as well.  I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.  

I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right. 

My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.

Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.  

Just, why?

that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice

Producer only sets the wholesale markets, not resale. 

In this case the producer is setting an artificially low price, and trying to prohibit the market to correct.

Then the producer is trying to artificially restrict resale supply, something that can not be successfully 100% accomplished.

So the result is that pairs of tickets that do squeeze out into the market, are 15 TIMES more expensive than comparable performer tickets.

And in the few instances where tickets leak (NY & DEN), oh well - the overall effort has been beyond successful in what they were trying to accomplish (as many tickets in 10c members hands & limited third party resale sites getting their hands on said tickets).  People would have an issue with Jesus Christ coming back & personally handing tickets to every single 10c member.

"And in the few instances where tickets leak (NY & DEN), oh well"

This is false. There are resale tickets available for most, if not all shows. Just not on stub hub. 


Remember only venue and public onsale tickets are available for resale now. We do not know yet how many burner 10c  reserved  tickets will hit the market.

Brisk.

We are being notified our seat by email? 

deadlax97

So all the unallocated 10C tickets at sold out venues become official platinums on Monday, correct? Should give everyone a second shot at some of the not so difficult venues 

Bentleyspop

Brisk. said:

We are being notified our seat by email? 

Twitter 

foodboy

the F2F exchange will probably not be that active for denver or msg . i still think there will be some activity as real fans will want real fans to get these tickets if they can't make it or what ever other reason. for those that use this club to cash out there is no way to stop this due to the direct transfer system. if it was venue pick up there would only be day of opportunities which could  discourage people, the non fan from entering the lottery and flipping those hot tickets as they would have to physically show up at the venue and couldn't pre list them days ahead of the show.so this way other fans could have obtained seats in the lottery. its not perfect but i believe it would cut the numbers down. i am not faulting 10 c. this is their first go around with this new system. hopefully they can tweak it a bit. it will never be perfect for all. you have to realize that and accept it otherwise you will be arguing till the end of time. but again the positives are there as well. especially getting a significant number of additional seats for their fans. that really is the object after all.  so thanks for that.  

Lerxst1992

tdawe said:

mpedone said:

hihobibo said:

Saltzy23 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.

It's absurd.

The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.

There is literally no reason to keep waiting.  Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.

I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.

The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won. 

I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.

I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.

For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix. 

If NY is not included on the face value exchange, then Pearl Jam is forcing their fans who want to sell on stub hub to recover cost to charge a 30% premium.  If everyone else gets to recover cost, so should us all.

Clapper

deadlax97 said:

So all the unallocated 10C tickets at sold out venues become official platinums on Monday, correct? Should give everyone a second shot at some of the not so difficult venues 

I'm not certain, but I don't believe this is correct.  I think the tickets deemed Official Platinum are pre-arranged  with the promotor, artists and venue.  That's not to say it can't change. That is just how I believe it works.  In cases of lower demand markets (I'm looking at you Ottawa and Quebec City), I think any 10C tickets that were left over after draws went into the VF and Public Sale pools.  Most "ticket drops" this far out are additional seats that either had issues with processing payment or are seats they weren't planning on using but choose to use now that their final stage set up has been cleared with the venue.  Tickets that get released on the day of show are usually artist/venue/promoter holds that ended up not getting used, that's why they are usually pretty good. 

kotton_crown

Lerxst1992 said:

tdawe said:

mpedone said:

hihobibo said:

Saltzy23 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.

It's absurd.

The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.

There is literally no reason to keep waiting.  Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.

I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.

The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won. 

I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.

I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.

For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix. 

If NY is not included on the face value exchange, then Pearl Jam is forcing their fans who want to sell on stub hub to recover cost to charge a 30% premium.  If everyone else gets to recover cost, so should us all.

You’ve been corrected on this several times. You can sell anyway you like, why do you think you have to use stubhub? Sell it for the cost of face value including fees, idk what you’re talking about with 30% premium.

Luckytwn1

gettingright said:

mpedone said:

Lerxst1992 said:

PB11041 said:

Saltzy23 said:

pbultimate said:

Saltzy23 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.

It's absurd.

The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.

There is literally no reason to keep waiting.  Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.

I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.

Im being serious cause i’ve never heard of F2F until this yr. 

is it already in place for other acts or is it a new system they may be designing?

It's a new thing for me as well.  I'm pretty sure it's a new thing they are trying in general.  

I get the overall idea, even if I may disagree with it in many ways, but at least get the damn execution of it right. 

My personal belief is that if someone gets shut out of a show and is willing to pay market price to get in, they should be allowed to in a free market capitalist society, but I also understand that people are sick of people acquiring tickets SOLELY so that they can flip them and make a bundle of cash.

Having like 3 more weeks before these F2F marketplaces open up sucks one way or the other though.  

Just, why?

that is not how markets work, the buyer of goods is not the only determining factor in an economic system, the producer is allowed to set prices and adjust or not adjust based on their choice

Producer only sets the wholesale markets, not resale. 

In this case the producer is setting an artificially low price, and trying to prohibit the market to correct.

Then the producer is trying to artificially restrict resale supply, something that can not be successfully 100% accomplished.

So the result is that pairs of tickets that do squeeze out into the market, are 15 TIMES more expensive than comparable performer tickets.

Solution: producer sets an absurdly high price, like 15 times what the most expensive MSG ticket is going for now. There's no secondary market if there's no primary market!

The problem in price setting in this case is what the motive for the pricing is. If profit is the main motive, which is what we are accustomed to in a capitalist society, then every seat would have its own price according to its relative proximity to the stage because at a concert not all seats are equal in value.

This would allow the producer to capture the maximum amount of profit by creating an equilibrium price for each seat/section in the venue. Many producers have gone to this method to help squeeze secondary markets out and capture the profit lost to the secondary market. However, this comes with the social cost of appearing greedy by allowing only those with the financial means to access the market, which, for various reasons, buyers in the market place frown on severely. When it comes to purchasing art, social pressure on the artist is that they should make available the art to everyone equally regardless of true market value. Furthermore, a misconception also exists that those who have invested previous time and money are more deserving of the value than the artist, and should have access below market value. But, from a capitalist perspective, this is incorrect. Previous time and money spent on the product are not investments to be cashed in on later, but rather, sunk costs that have no future value. You got what you paid for when you paid for it, and there is no obligation from the seller to provide anything more in the future. (On a side note: this is the same principle when people expect sex in the future for monies spent on a date in the present, which I am (maybe) coining now as a "sexvestment." But, the same principle applies of a sunk cost vs. an investment - there should be no future expectations of increasing value).

Clearly, the main motive is not profit for this producer as they provide the best seats (and what would be most expensive seats) to their fan club members. So, in a sense, the band is providing value on past investment of time and money. This should create great joy among the group of buyers as they are essentially getting an extremely high value for the tickets, and are being rewarded for previous purchases. The problem is that when some have invested more over time, and are not selected for an item where demand exceeds supply, they have a strong sense that an injustice has taken place. What they fail to realize is that the very market the producer has created is, from a profit perspective, a total injustice to the producer. 

Lastly, once a purchase is able to be made, a buyer can seek to increase that value in a couple of ways. First, you can gain financially by reselling a ticket purchased at well below market value for true market value. Or, if a buyer gets GA tickets, they can seek to increase the experiential value of their ticket by lining up early to turn a potential 25th row seat into a maximum 1st row seat, which will really maximize their overall utility on the ticket purchased with the relatively small investment of time.

In conclusion, your previous expenses are not investments, but rather sunk costs for which you should not hope to gain any future value on. The producers (Pearl Jam), from a strictly profit perspective, have created a market place where they are the biggest losers. Furthermore, they have done their best to keep secondary sales to a minimum so that their lost profits don't get into others' hands, and that those who have invested their time and money over the years have access to the best seats at an extraordinarily low cost. So, even if you didn't get selected in the lottery, you should not only be not gutted, you should be thanking the band (unless you have a lot of money where you could afford to pay true market value) for the opportunity to purchase something at well below market value.

Sorry for the long post; I love economics.

That's an excellent post but the end result is that you skip over the correct conclusion. Pearl Jam should price tickets at or near market value like other bands are doing. That is the thing that most drastically cuts into a secondary market. All they've done here is create a system where supply is limited and there are artificially low prices, thereby creating a windfall for the people who are selling. This is particularly problematic by allowing anyone to sign up for a fan club membership and then having the fan club sale as being a full on lottery. So what's happening is that brokers will sign up for many accounts and then don't be fooled by any transfer restrictions, brokers have ways around each and every one. That is fact. Ironically, the venue where tickets are always the most expensive (MSG), the tickets there can't be limited from transfer so now you have brokers who can sign up for a lottery, win tickets (especially GA), and make way more money than they ever would if the tickets were priced at or near market value.

They have eliminated risk for brokers. Every ticket a broker gets is worth 20X the price they have to pay for it. That is a very large problem. It is only when brokers face risk that they will be deterred. If you look at how Mumford & Sons used platinum ticketing with the express purpose of limiting the prices tickets would go on the secondary market, it worked very well. I think the 10C does a great job but with the limited number of US shows that have been done in recent years and the fact that the fan club now makes it so easy for brokers to have much higher margins than they would under normal circumstances, the system needs to be reformed IMO.

NDJeff7

Lerxst1992 said:

tdawe said:

mpedone said:

hihobibo said:

Saltzy23 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I don't understand why they don't release the ticket info to all since it seems like everything is in place.

It's absurd.

The F2F marketplaces should all be up as well.

There is literally no reason to keep waiting.  Not so that they know where they are sitting as much as opening up the marketplaces to allow people to start posting and buying if they are looking.

I do not understand why we need to wait until mid-late February to be able to buy any secondary tickets for any shows that are not NYC or CO.

The wait should be there. It seems so many people are ready to SELL on the exchange right now than buy. But why? We were only offered the tickets a couple weeks ago. Don't put in if you aren't going to go. This site now gives everyone an out, so they can get the thrill of winning the lottery, but then change their mind about flying across the country to actually go. The rumors thread was accurate for a few weeks ahead of the announcement, enough time to prepare plans in case you won. 

I think a lot of people are hoping to get tickets to MSG and/or Baltimore (and all the others, obviously) via the F2F exchange. Way more than are eager to sell.

I've explained this too many times now in another thread but there are no going to be tickets available for MSG on the F2F exchange. Apparently some Redditor was told by TM that they weren't setting it up in the first place, but even if they do there won't be any tickets on it.

For the non-transferable shows, including Baltimore, I have a theory that scalpers bought up tickets like they would for any other show without really understanding how non-resellable they would be. There are some listed on second- or third-tier resale websites proposing sketchy arrangements involving sales of TM account passwords and whatnot, but I doubt they'll find many takers for those and in any event there don't seem to be as many listings as you would expect. My prediction is that there will be some tickets on the exchanges the minute they open up (a combination of scalpers trying to get their money back, the odd fan whose plans changed between the lottery/sale and 2/18, and maybe possibly TM holding back some primary inventory to throw on there just to get the traffic going). Those will sell immediately, then it will be a ghost town until late March when people who can't make the shows start to move their tix. 

If NY is not included on the face value exchange, then Pearl Jam is forcing their fans who want to sell on stub hub to recover cost to charge a 30% premium.  If everyone else gets to recover cost, so should us all.

It's not up to PJ in NY. You've gotta take that argument up with your elected officials who passed the law enabling the free and easy scalping of tickets. 

Hagrid7575

Bentleyspop said:

Brisk. said:

We are being notified our seat by email? 

Twitter 

Incorrect. Notifications coming via Tic Tok videos. But you needed an account, like, yesterday. 

jimcsot

Brisk. said:

We are being notified our seat by email? 

.passenger pigeon.

PSUS2H

I got mine after closing all three activity rings on my apple watch.  Only took twelve hours, but I figure thats how long you have to camp out for a rail spot so good training. 

RoleModelsinBlood31

Bentleyspop said:

Why doesn't 10club understand that as soon as we get seat locations we can all start threads complaining about....

Seat location 
Seat numbers
Seniority
10club allocations
Ticketmaster.com 
The TM plot against 10club members
TM being a criminal enterprise
Etc etc

This.

mace1229

I like to buy MSG tickets and let them stay empty just to piss people off. Can't wait to see what seats I get to leave empty.

GG267924

Has anyone actually got seat locations yet?