How Brokers Scalp 10c Tickets

thefixer420

Here's how brokers are taking advantage of the 10c and the new system:

1. Buy a bunch of new 10c memberships and establish a bunch of TM "burner" accounts.

2. Enter the lottery to win transferable tickets (MSG) or high demand tickets (Baltimore).

3. For MSG/Denver, simply sell on the secondary like normal. For Baltimore, sell access to your account.

It's as simple as that. Brokers know locations well ahead of time now, so listing specific locations to sell is easy. Seniority means nothing to them for shows like Baltimore as any seat is worth at least $500 each given limited inventory. Even if you only win on a few entries, it's well worth the investment (e.g. https://www.ticketliquidator.com/tickets/4358923/pearl-jam-tickets-sat-mar-28-2020-royal-farms-aren).

Trust me guys, the old process of WCO, and not revealing seat location, was a more effective deterrent to brokers.

On the flip side, regarding the public sale, TM selling non transferable tickets with rotating barcodes certainly is more effective at reducing tickets on the secondary. Some brokers just aren't willing to risk their accounts, and creating new ones just for this purpose is not very effective.

Downside to this though? Astronomical secondary prices due to severely limited inventory.

PJNB

I agree with most of that though disagree with creating new accounts is not very effective. I think that will be the biggest problem for non transferable locations. The 2nd leg is going to be even more of a shitshow if this is the way we do things going forward. 

IlliniGuy76

The only way that one can transfer non-NY & Denver shows is by selling a TM burner account.  Stubhub and most reputable third party sites don't have that sort of capability and the very reason you don't see cities outside of those two for sale.

PJammer4life

These ticket agencies probably already have thousands of accounts not just for Pearl Jam but other shows and artists as well. They are just accessing the Verified Fan with their system they already have in place. Sucks that an industry that screwed us all with bots will continue to gauge concert goers any way they can. 

Kane6676

thefixer420 said:

Here's how brokers are taking advantage of the 10c and the new system:

1. Buy a bunch of new 10c memberships and establish a bunch of TM "burner" accounts.

2. Enter the lottery to win transferable tickets (MSG) or high demand tickets (Baltimore).

3. For MSG/Denver, simply sell on the secondary like normal. For Baltimore, sell access to your account.

It's as simple as that. Brokers know locations well ahead of time now, so listing specific locations to sell is easy. Seniority means nothing to them for shows like Baltimore as any seat is worth at least $500 each given limited inventory. Even if you only win on a few entries, it's well worth the investment (e.g. https://www.ticketliquidator.com/tickets/4358923/pearl-jam-tickets-sat-mar-28-2020-royal-farms-aren).

Trust me guys, the old process of WCO, and not revealing seat location, was a more effective deterrent to brokers.

On the flip side, regarding the public sale, TM selling non transferable tickets with rotating barcodes certainly is more effective at reducing tickets on the secondary. Some brokers just aren't willing to risk their accounts, and creating new ones just for this purpose is not very effective.

Downside to this though? Astronomical secondary prices due to severely limited inventory.

I have seen Pj 4 times since 2000. With their new ticket system I doubt I ever see them again. Oh well 

afgpj

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

Kane6676

IlliniGuy76 said:

The only way that one can transfer non-NY & Denver shows is by selling a TM burner account.  Stubhub and most reputable third party sites don't have that sort of capability and the very reason you don't see cities outside of those two for sale.

There are many sites as well as eBay selling PJ tickets that are suppose to be non transferable. As you stated they sell access to a TM burner account. This is even worse than stub hub 

IlliniGuy76

afgpj said:

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

This will NEVER happen.  TM doesn't care who is purchasing the tickets, at all.  The only reason there is the F2F exchange/non-transferable tickets is a direct result of negotiations with Pearl Jam.  

afgpj

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

This will NEVER happen.  TM doesn't care who is purchasing the tickets, at all.  The only reason there is the F2F exchange/non-transferable tickets is a direct result of negotiations with Pearl Jam.  

Maybe not.  But U2 did something very close to this for their 2017 Joshua Tree Tour.  Photo ID and the credit card used to purchase the tickets was needed to get into the venue.

IlliniGuy76

afgpj said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

This will NEVER happen.  TM doesn't care who is purchasing the tickets, at all.  The only reason there is the F2F exchange/non-transferable tickets is a direct result of negotiations with Pearl Jam.  

Maybe not.  But U2 did something very close to this for their 2017 Joshua Tree Tour.  Photo ID and the credit card used to purchase the tickets was needed to get into the venue.

That was the band requirement, not TM - again, TM doesn't give two iotas who the tickets are sold to or how.

MickeyMouse

I can’t wait until the album comes out so people start complaining about that instead

nicknyr15

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

This will NEVER happen.  TM doesn't care who is purchasing the tickets, at all.  The only reason there is the F2F exchange/non-transferable tickets is a direct result of negotiations with Pearl Jam.  

Maybe not.  But U2 did something very close to this for their 2017 Joshua Tree Tour.  Photo ID and the credit card used to purchase the tickets was needed to get into the venue.

That was the band requirement, not TM - again, TM doesn't give two iotas who the tickets are sold to or how.

But they say they do!? Are you implying they’re liars?

afgpj

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

This will NEVER happen.  TM doesn't care who is purchasing the tickets, at all.  The only reason there is the F2F exchange/non-transferable tickets is a direct result of negotiations with Pearl Jam.  

Maybe not.  But U2 did something very close to this for their 2017 Joshua Tree Tour.  Photo ID and the credit card used to purchase the tickets was needed to get into the venue.

That was the band requirement, not TM - again, TM doesn't give two iotas who the tickets are sold to or how.

Again, maybe not.  But why did TM even bother with this Verified Fan thing?

IlliniGuy76

nicknyr15 said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

This will NEVER happen.  TM doesn't care who is purchasing the tickets, at all.  The only reason there is the F2F exchange/non-transferable tickets is a direct result of negotiations with Pearl Jam.  

Maybe not.  But U2 did something very close to this for their 2017 Joshua Tree Tour.  Photo ID and the credit card used to purchase the tickets was needed to get into the venue.

That was the band requirement, not TM - again, TM doesn't give two iotas who the tickets are sold to or how.

But they say they do!? Are you implying they’re liars?

LOL - shockingly, YES!  TM doesn't give one iota who tickets are sold to or not.

nicknyr15

IlliniGuy76 said:

nicknyr15 said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

IlliniGuy76 said:

afgpj said:

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

This will NEVER happen.  TM doesn't care who is purchasing the tickets, at all.  The only reason there is the F2F exchange/non-transferable tickets is a direct result of negotiations with Pearl Jam.  

Maybe not.  But U2 did something very close to this for their 2017 Joshua Tree Tour.  Photo ID and the credit card used to purchase the tickets was needed to get into the venue.

That was the band requirement, not TM - again, TM doesn't give two iotas who the tickets are sold to or how.

But they say they do!? Are you implying they’re liars?

LOL - shockingly, YES!  TM doesn't give one iota who tickets are sold to or not.

Lol. 

OceansJenny

afgpj said:

Ticketmaster needs to start connecting the ticket to the buyer with valid forms of ID(ex: driver’s license, passport, etc.).  If ticket sales worked like airline tickets this scalper problem would be solved.  The TM Fan to fan face value exchange would be the only place for buying/selling and the new buyer could only buy and use the ticket with valid form of ID.  This is foolproof, however it would require more staff at venues to validate tickets and ID.

That would be a huge burden on the venues. Imagine how long it would take to get in. Plus like it was mentioned, TM and the venues don’t care who has the tickets.

Now, you could WCO that requires ID with let’s say one of those plastic armbands that you can’t take off with a scannable barcode, like at a festival. If we really wanted to go that far.

RobZ

I guess this whole caper is feasible...but still:

1) You need to invest/pay up front for your multiple 10C memberships.
2) You run the risk of having some/all your 10C memberships revoked if caught...losing your initial investment.
3) You still have win the lotteries---or lose initial investment/money.

--Seems more risk than reward considering how many other shows/bands easier to scalp.  I guess some may have attempted this, just not so how wide spread it is.

jonsey30

Couldn’t they do this?  Fan to fan sale starts in Feb, and must be face value.  But couldn’t someone list them on a secondary market and make a deal to process the face value sale through TM, and take a side payment for more?

bootlegger10

Keep the Euro tours coming.  Easy breezy to get tickets.  

Zod

I think for the most part this system is working pretty good (except the two places where it was illegal to do it).   While I realize since anyone can get GA, that some scalpers might try to infiltrate GA, the hoops the buyer has to go through to access the tickets is most likely a deterrent. 

It's crazy watching people complain about how this tour went down, when I can't think of any band (not even remotely close) that put this kind of effort in to keep the tickets out of broker/scalper hands and into the hands of fans.    I've never seen anything like this.   It's unprecedented.

Then I still find myself reading comments like "I have seen Pj 4 times since 2000. With their new ticket system I doubt I ever see them again. Oh well ".  I think people are underestimating what PJ pulled off.

New York it's its own beast.  It's one of the most populated places in the USA, and it's a single show an an Arena.   You've got demand working against it (probably the most in demand show), plus they couldn't implement their antiscalping strategy there, which mean you had brokers/scalpers making it worse.

I'm pretty impressed with what PJ did.  If you're going to charge $100/ticket, and we know scalpers can easily ask 2 to 3x that.  You need to lock that shit down.   If you don't, it's a big arbitrage opportunity.   It all comes down to bands asking less for tickets then what they are worth.  IF they didn't do that, there would be no value for scalpers to flip them.

sd150448

Hence the massive influx of new members a week before the sale. Kudos to the band and to 10club as well! It's ticketmaster that is accountable for this crap. I thought the process was awesome but still took away from the most deserving. Decreasing odds for the most dedicated of fans. If you make a deal with the devil you might get burned.

on2legs

jonsey30 said:

Couldn’t they do this?  Fan to fan sale starts in Feb, and must be face value.  But couldn’t someone list them on a secondary market and make a deal to process the face value sale through TM, and take a side payment for more?

No... you have no contact with the buyer. 

Kane6676

jonsey30 said:

Couldn’t they do this?  Fan to fan sale starts in Feb, and must be face value.  But couldn’t someone list them on a secondary market and make a deal to process the face value sale through TM, and take a side payment for more?

They are doing this right now and if I decide to go then that’s how I’m getting tickets 

Kane6676

Zod said:

I think for the most part this system is working pretty good (except the two places where it was illegal to do it).   While I realize since anyone can get GA, that some scalpers might try to infiltrate GA, the hoops the buyer has to go through to access the tickets is most likely a deterrent. 

It's crazy watching people complain about how this tour went down, when I can't think of any band (not even remotely close) that put this kind of effort in to keep the tickets out of broker/scalper hands and into the hands of fans.    I've never seen anything like this.   It's unprecedented.

Then I still find myself reading comments like "I have seen Pj 4 times since 2000. With their new ticket system I doubt I ever see them again. Oh well ".  I think people are underestimating what PJ pulled off.

New York it's its own beast.  It's one of the most populated places in the USA, and it's a single show an an Arena.   You've got demand working against it (probably the most in demand show), plus they couldn't implement their antiscalping strategy there, which mean you had brokers/scalpers making it worse.

I'm pretty impressed with what PJ did.  If you're going to charge $100/ticket, and we know scalpers can easily ask 2 to 3x that.  You need to lock that shit down.   If you don't, it's a big arbitrage opportunity.   It all comes down to bands asking less for tickets then what they are worth.  IF they didn't do that, there would be no value for scalpers to flip them.

Funny thing is that in the two states that didn’t allow Pearl Jam to run this ticket scam ( which it is) you can still get tickets on a trusted site. Everywhere else you now have to purchase someone’s TM account to get the tickets. PJ left thousand of fans to possibly be scammed. Terrible system. I don’t care what you say. I realize that those who got tickets don’t care and will applaud this non sense 

sd150448

I agree
Makes no difference to me. I got the tickets I wanted so I'm good. Shame for those who didn't. Been there countless times. Just sad real fans get robbed point blank

RatherStarved

The Germans have solved this.  I saw Eddie Vedder solo in Berlin last year.  When you buy a ticket, you have to enter your name.  The ticket is personalized.  They have a fan to fan exchange where you can sell a ticket and the buyer’s name is then registered.  The seller can set any price but not to exceed face value. When you enter the venue they take a quick look at your ID when they scan your ticket.  It does not add any time or staff to the process because the bottleneck is security, not scanning tickets.  Through this process I was able to buy a really good seat for face value after missing the initial on sale.  It wasn’t really very complicated at all.  I predict the dynamic bar codes will cause a lot more delays at the entrances than would be the case if they took a quick look at ID.  It doesn’t have to be complicated.

on2legs

Kane6676 said:

jonsey30 said:

Couldn’t they do this?  Fan to fan sale starts in Feb, and must be face value.  But couldn’t someone list them on a secondary market and make a deal to process the face value sale through TM, and take a side payment for more?

They are doing this right now and if I decide to go then that’s how I’m getting tickets 

It’s not like eBay.  You’re not dealing directly with the ticket holder.  Ticketmaster handles the transaction without either party knowing who the other one is so there’s no way to route additional money. 

Zod

jonsey30 said:

Couldn’t they do this?  Fan to fan sale starts in Feb, and must be face value.  But couldn’t someone list them on a secondary market and make a deal to process the face value sale through TM, and take a side payment for more?

I think this depends on whether or not you can buy/sell to a specific person.  If all you can do it post your tickets for sale, and then someone can scoop them.  Then the loophole in our statement won't work so well, as a 3rd party could scoop them when posted.  It only works if they add a feature to trade/buy/sell with a specific user.  Hopefully it's the former and not the latter, otherwise you could very much ask for extras on the side.

halshakarchi

So is this the latest conspiracy theory for why 10c members didn’t get a ticket?

Ledbetterman10

thefixer420 said:

Here's how brokers are taking advantage of the 10c and the new system:

1. Buy a bunch of new 10c memberships and establish a bunch of TM "burner" accounts.

2. Enter the lottery to win transferable tickets (MSG) or high demand tickets (Baltimore).

3. For MSG/Denver, simply sell on the secondary like normal. For Baltimore, sell access to your account.

It's as simple as that. Brokers know locations well ahead of time now, so listing specific locations to sell is easy. Seniority means nothing to them for shows like Baltimore as any seat is worth at least $500 each given limited inventory. Even if you only win on a few entries, it's well worth the investment (e.g. 

Never even crossed my mind; scalpers buying multiple burner Tenclub memberships. Damn shysters.  

on2legs

Zod said:

jonsey30 said:

Couldn’t they do this?  Fan to fan sale starts in Feb, and must be face value.  But couldn’t someone list them on a secondary market and make a deal to process the face value sale through TM, and take a side payment for more?

I think this depends on whether or not you can buy/sell to a specific person.  If all you can do it post your tickets for sale, and then someone can scoop them.  Then the loophole in our statement won't work so well, as a 3rd party could scoop them when posted.  It only works if they add a feature to trade/buy/sell with a specific user.  Hopefully it's the former and not the latter, otherwise you could very much ask for extras on the side.

It’s a blind sale.  You will gave no idea who you’re buying from or selling to.