The coronavirus

what dreams

dignin said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lot of people making noise in my neck of the woods about "why can kids go to school but the restaurants and bars have to close?". because, geniuses, the kids actually fucking listen to protocols and take direction seriously, where the adults don't. there's a reason there's very few cases in our schools and kids getting infected. it's all the stupid fucking adults that can't stay home and have a zoom happy hour. 

Middle school kids definitely don’t here. The second they’re out for recess the mask is off, they’re wrestling, hugging, whatever. In class t he y follow the rules, but not in hallways and recess.

But I still think that’s a dumb argument, comparing schools to bars are 2 different animals.

I don't have kids or truly understand how they're behaving but my gut reaction would be that kids might be worse than adults. Or, rather that kids would be better than petulant/obstinate adults but not as good as responsible adults.  In any case, I agree that "what about schools?" is a lame deflection. They can talk about whether or not in-person school is a good idea but it's neither here nor there for validating hanging out in bars.

everything i've seen over the course of the last several months, now admittedly, this is limited to my daughters and their classmates/friends, the kids are doing amazingly well and are being way better about it than the adults i've encountered. 

maybe it's a canadian thing. 

My school is the same way.  Maybe it s a Winnipeg/New Jersey thing. 

My sisters kids too. 

Maybe it's a Winnipeg/New Jersey/Trollhättan thing

Yes!  I love it.   

In BC the schools are doing really well too. The kids have been back since September and there have been scattered, minimal cases and no outbreaks. The evidence that we have keeps showing that community spread is happening most in restaurants, bars and gyms. There are solid grounds to shut down those places and keep schools running.  

Same in nj.  As a teacher and parent I hope and pray the governor does not shut down schools again.  I think we have had four cases in our school (1200 students plus around 85 faculty members).  

Exponential spread. Four cases in your school (that you know of) turns into how many in the community? 
I'm not disputing anyone's preference for schools being open or closed, or the reasons why. I'm just questioning why we would minimize the math when we know four cases doesn't stop at four cases.

You really can't look at it that way though since you do not know where they got it from. Yes obviously if they got it from another kid in class and spread it to their family and then to others then that is not good. But if there has only been 4 cases in the last 3 months in his school I think it is pretty obvious that it is not being spread in the school and it is coming from outside sources and they would have spread that way anyways whether schools were open or not. 

People keep talking as though there is this thing called school and a completely different thing called community.

Schools are PART OF communities. Community spread and school spread are NOT SEPARATE from each other. 

The virus doesn't give a shit where it spreads.

But how and where it spreads is important within the context of schools being opened or closed. Again if there are 4 cases and they were not spread at school that is very noteworthy. They did not get it at the school therefore schools being opened did not have an impact on anyone outside of the schools getting it as well as you stated. Thats all I am trying to say and that is an important point when saying that kids are taking it home and getting others sick as you did. 

I should clarify that I think this is happening in other schools for sure just this example however I do not see it. 

I remember reading some lame ass WAPO opinion from the "open the schools now" public health crowd, where they shared this mind boggling data supposedly to support their argument -- in communities where schools are closed, spread is low. In communities where school is open, spread is high. In my family, we would say "No shit Sherlock" when faced with this type of data.

I'm not of any opinion whatsoever about school being open or closed. I will do my job to the best of my ability wherever they tell me to go. I just wish people would quit pretending that this is about anything but parents needing babysitters and playmates for their kids. It has nothing to do with learning.

Since we're sharing anecdotes, I can tell you that my colleague-friends who are back in buildings are not accomplishing any more in their classrooms than I'm accomplishing at home on the computer because of the disruptions and the stress. All I've heard from "professional developers" over the past decade is that "kids can't learn if they don't feel safe." So now we throw them in a building where nobody feels safe. Sure. Gotcha. I will remember that at my next training on social-emotional learning. 

To the highlighted portion. Bullshit. My son is in grade one and is deaf. He has an in class interpreter and has made huge strides educationally and developmentally since going back to school in the fall. It's absolutely necessary for his development to be in school with his peers (who are also learning sign) and interpreter. Without school we don't have access to that priceless resource.

So don't pretend you have any idea what parents are going through or their situations.  

I'm glad your child is getting the services he needs. There are many exceptional cases where this is true, and I do not deny that at all. My district has opted to bring in high needs special education students and first and second year ESOL as well, if the parents want it.

On the computer at home, I have an inclusion class of learning disabled students, and many of them are absolutely rocking it. I have found also my students with ADHD are  thriving without all the knucklehead "socializing" that normally goes on in a classroom. Please do not pretend you have any idea what I'm doing either.

I also know there are hundreds of thousands of teachers at home, who are teaching their own kids while also teaching the kids in their communities. Quit acting like teachers aren't parents, too, and lack understanding of what it means to be a parent.

what dreams

I will believe this country is serious about fully opening schools when everything else shuts down. Completely.  All bars and restaurants, Door Dash, gyms, retail, hotels, airlines, entertainment venues, garden centers, construction sites. Everything.

If schools aren't the problem, but the community is -- then nobody should be debating which should be shut down and which should be open. That isn't what we are seeing, however, is it? Nope.

what dreams

Transmission of SARS-COV-2 Infections in Households — Tennessee and Wisconsin, April–September 2020

Weekly / November 6, 2020 / 69(44);1631–1634

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6944e1.htm

"Among fourteen households in which the index patient was aged <18 years, the secondary infection rate from index patients aged <12 years was 53% (95% CI = 31%–74%) and from index patients aged 12–17 years was 38% (95% CI = 23%–56%). Approximately 75% of secondary infections were identified within 5 days of the index patient’s illness onset, and substantial transmission occurred whether the index patient was an adult or a child."

Meltdown99

I am part of the support staff at a school board here in Ontario.  Without them, this school year does not happen...especially the custodian...many of which have taken on extra work to covid clean schools...many of them are cleaning bathrooms 2 - 3 times a shift,  I will tell you that will only last for so long...the schools are asking a lot of the support staff.  Where I am at many custodians work 11-730 and are not able to fully clean the school until 230ish...doing 8 hours cleaning in 5 hours.

OnWis97

I am neither a teacher nor a parent. So I’m not going to get into the intricacies of the value of in person versus online or anybody’s motivations. But I have a difficult time believing that the spread isn’t going to be worse with open schools. I’m actually surprised our teachers here that support it. Given that some places have schools open, I appreciate teachers and administrators who are diligent in helping mitigate the problems. And I appreciate that young people are more able to wear mass without whining about it. But the basics of spreading tell me that there is no way that this is safer than online and that it’s almost certainly more dangerous.Then again, at least in the United States, we’re pretty much just waiting on vaccines now and giving up on trying to slow the spread significantly.

bbiggs

Whether it’s good for kids to be in the classroom or not can be debated endlessly. The kids getting 100% remote learning are not getting the same quality of education though. Especially at the elementary level.  As a parent, that part is troubling. 

mcgruff10

bbiggs said:

Whether it’s good for kids to be in the classroom or not can be debated endlessly. The kids getting 100% remote learning are not getting the same quality of education though. Especially at the elementary level.  As a parent, that part is troubling. 

Bingo.  

F Me In The Brain

bbiggs said:

Whether it’s good for kids to be in the classroom or not can be debated endlessly. The kids getting 100% remote learning are not getting the same quality of education though. Especially at the elementary level.  As a parent, that part is troubling. 

Well there is a teacher here who will rant and rave about us fucking parents who want babysitters or friends for our kids.

Of course I agree with you -- and our schools have not opened back up, although try #3 is set for Tuesday of this week.  (They stood down for the first two tries the day prior, so we expect to see an announcement on Monday.) 

Worth mentioning that we elected (and still elect) to keep our child home from school and to forsake the babysitters and playmates.

It is pretty tough, really -- I mean, free babysitting and playmates are super tough to get past.

For us, it does not make sense to put ourselves at risk when we know we cannot trust everyone in the community to try and be safe and follow rules and send their kids to school.  I don't think that the teachers should be exposed to the children of morons, either.

Many parents disagree with us and do follow the rules -- I do believe that many do want to have their kids back in because they want them to be in the best learning environment.  These are parents who also work with their kids and enroll their kids in extra stuff like kumon. 

Damn.  Free babysitting, though.  It would be great.  Us parents are such fools.

mcgruff10

F Me In The Brain said:

bbiggs said:

Whether it’s good for kids to be in the classroom or not can be debated endlessly. The kids getting 100% remote learning are not getting the same quality of education though. Especially at the elementary level.  As a parent, that part is troubling. 

Well there is a teacher here who will rant and rave about us fucking parents who want babysitters or friends for our kids.

Of course I agree with you -- and our schools have not opened back up, although try #3 is set for Tuesday of this week.  (They stood down for the first two tries the day prior, so we expect to see an announcement on Monday.) 

Worth mentioning that we elected (and still elect) to keep our child home from school and to forsake the babysitters and playmates.

It is pretty tough, really -- I mean, free babysitting and playmates are super tough to get past.

For us, it does not make sense to put ourselves at risk when we know we cannot trust everyone in the community to try and be safe and follow rules and send their kids to school.  I don't think that the teachers should be exposed to the children of morons, either.

Many parents disagree with us and do follow the rules -- I do believe that many do want to have their kids back in because they want them to be in the best learning environment.  These are parents who also work with their kids and enroll their kids in extra stuff like kumon. 

Damn.  Free babysitting, though.  It would be great.  Us parents are such fools.

I ll teach your kids, in exchange you can send me scotch, pizza and ketel one.  

HughFreakingDillon

dignin said:

mcgruff10 said:

dignin said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lot of people making noise in my neck of the woods about "why can kids go to school but the restaurants and bars have to close?". because, geniuses, the kids actually fucking listen to protocols and take direction seriously, where the adults don't. there's a reason there's very few cases in our schools and kids getting infected. it's all the stupid fucking adults that can't stay home and have a zoom happy hour. 

Middle school kids definitely don’t here. The second they’re out for recess the mask is off, they’re wrestling, hugging, whatever. In class t he y follow the rules, but not in hallways and recess.

But I still think that’s a dumb argument, comparing schools to bars are 2 different animals.

I don't have kids or truly understand how they're behaving but my gut reaction would be that kids might be worse than adults. Or, rather that kids would be better than petulant/obstinate adults but not as good as responsible adults.  In any case, I agree that "what about schools?" is a lame deflection. They can talk about whether or not in-person school is a good idea but it's neither here nor there for validating hanging out in bars.

everything i've seen over the course of the last several months, now admittedly, this is limited to my daughters and their classmates/friends, the kids are doing amazingly well and are being way better about it than the adults i've encountered. 

maybe it's a canadian thing. 

My school is the same way.  Maybe it s a Winnipeg/New Jersey thing. 

My sisters kids too. 

Maybe it's a Winnipeg/New Jersey/Trollhättan thing

Yes!  I love it.   

In BC the schools are doing really well too. The kids have been back since September and there have been scattered, minimal cases and no outbreaks. The evidence that we have keeps showing that community spread is happening most in restaurants, bars and gyms. There are solid grounds to shut down those places and keep schools running.  

Same in nj.  As a teacher and parent I hope and pray the governor does not shut down schools again.  I think we have had four cases in our school (1200 students plus around 85 faculty members).  

Exponential spread. Four cases in your school (that you know of) turns into how many in the community? 
I'm not disputing anyone's preference for schools being open or closed, or the reasons why. I'm just questioning why we would minimize the math when we know four cases doesn't stop at four cases.

You really can't look at it that way though since you do not know where they got it from. Yes obviously if they got it from another kid in class and spread it to their family and then to others then that is not good. But if there has only been 4 cases in the last 3 months in his school I think it is pretty obvious that it is not being spread in the school and it is coming from outside sources and they would have spread that way anyways whether schools were open or not. 

People keep talking as though there is this thing called school and a completely different thing called community.

Schools are PART OF communities. Community spread and school spread are NOT SEPARATE from each other. 

The virus doesn't give a shit where it spreads.

I don't think you get it. My kids are in school right now and there have been a couple of kids test positive within the school. Any kid that was within the cohort with a positive test goes home for 2 weeks and gets tested. So far there has been no spread within school. These schools are doing a phenomenal job and so far their mitigation efforts are working.

And to the other comments, the kids I've seen have been doing at much better job at wearing masks than the adults. The distancing, not so great, but kids are gonna be kids.

The kids have been awesome.  They wear their masks from 7:15-11:30 without complaining.  The measures that we have put in place (no group work, no switching classes, no lunch) seem to be working.  (knock on wood)
Any student with a symptom (headache, sore throat , etc) or has an immediate family member who tests positive is sent home for two weeks.  During that time the parent can either take the kid for a covid test or have the student go full virtual for that time.

Give yourself a pat on the back because teachers are one of the biggest reasons this is working. I'm extremely grateful that my kids can continue to go to school, you guys are a lifesaver.

i agree completely. my daughter's schools and administrators have been amazing, and it's been wildly successful to date. my youngest is basically business as usual; sure, the two classes instead of one (teacher and EA alternate), the distancing, the masks, but it's otherwise normal and sustainable. 

what dreams

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lot of people making noise in my neck of the woods about "why can kids go to school but the restaurants and bars have to close?". because, geniuses, the kids actually fucking listen to protocols and take direction seriously, where the adults don't. there's a reason there's very few cases in our schools and kids getting infected. it's all the stupid fucking adults that can't stay home and have a zoom happy hour. 

Middle school kids definitely don’t here. The second they’re out for recess the mask is off, they’re wrestling, hugging, whatever. In class t he y follow the rules, but not in hallways and recess.

But I still think that’s a dumb argument, comparing schools to bars are 2 different animals.

I don't have kids or truly understand how they're behaving but my gut reaction would be that kids might be worse than adults. Or, rather that kids would be better than petulant/obstinate adults but not as good as responsible adults.  In any case, I agree that "what about schools?" is a lame deflection. They can talk about whether or not in-person school is a good idea but it's neither here nor there for validating hanging out in bars.

everything i've seen over the course of the last several months, now admittedly, this is limited to my daughters and their classmates/friends, the kids are doing amazingly well and are being way better about it than the adults i've encountered. 

maybe it's a canadian thing. 

My school is the same way.  Maybe it s a Winnipeg/New Jersey thing. 

My sisters kids too. 

Maybe it's a Winnipeg/New Jersey/Trollhättan thing

Yes!  I love it.   

In BC the schools are doing really well too. The kids have been back since September and there have been scattered, minimal cases and no outbreaks. The evidence that we have keeps showing that community spread is happening most in restaurants, bars and gyms. There are solid grounds to shut down those places and keep schools running.  

Same in nj.  As a teacher and parent I hope and pray the governor does not shut down schools again.  I think we have had four cases in our school (1200 students plus around 85 faculty members).  

Exponential spread. Four cases in your school (that you know of) turns into how many in the community? 
I'm not disputing anyone's preference for schools being open or closed, or the reasons why. I'm just questioning why we would minimize the math when we know four cases doesn't stop at four cases.

You really can't look at it that way though since you do not know where they got it from. Yes obviously if they got it from another kid in class and spread it to their family and then to others then that is not good. But if there has only been 4 cases in the last 3 months in his school I think it is pretty obvious that it is not being spread in the school and it is coming from outside sources and they would have spread that way anyways whether schools were open or not. 

People keep talking as though there is this thing called school and a completely different thing called community.

Schools are PART OF communities. Community spread and school spread are NOT SEPARATE from each other. 

The virus doesn't give a shit where it spreads.

But how and where it spreads is important within the context of schools being opened or closed. Again if there are 4 cases and they were not spread at school that is very noteworthy. They did not get it at the school therefore schools being opened did not have an impact on anyone outside of the schools getting it as well as you stated. Thats all I am trying to say and that is an important point when saying that kids are taking it home and getting others sick as you did. 

I should clarify that I think this is happening in other schools for sure just this example however I do not see it. 

I remember reading some lame ass WAPO opinion from the "open the schools now" public health crowd, where they shared this mind boggling data supposedly to support their argument -- in communities where schools are closed, spread is low. In communities where school is open, spread is high. In my family, we would say "No shit Sherlock" when faced with this type of data.

I'm not of any opinion whatsoever about school being open or closed. I will do my job to the best of my ability wherever they tell me to go. I just wish people would quit pretending that this is about anything but parents needing babysitters and playmates for their kids. It has nothing to do with learning.

Since we're sharing anecdotes, I can tell you that my colleague-friends who are back in buildings are not accomplishing any more in their classrooms than I'm accomplishing at home on the computer because of the disruptions and the stress. All I've heard from "professional developers" over the past decade is that "kids can't learn if they don't feel safe." So now we throw them in a building where nobody feels safe. Sure. Gotcha. I will remember that at my next training on social-emotional learning. 

I disagree 100% based solely on what I have witnessed in grades k-8.  In person teaching is the way to go; teaching via zoom is total garbage.  What disruptions are you seeing?  

Thanks for calling my work over Zoom with middle school students "garbage."  Tell that to my student who show up every single day -- one of whom was temporarily homeless through this, dialing in from a fucking hotel room and still reading, writing, passing the same quizzes and projects I would give in class. I'm working into the night hours creating engaging presentation, learning all kinds of ways to get them to participate. And because of some tools like chat and polls, I can guarantee a response from every singe child instead of waiting for the same damn kid to raise her hand like I used to in a classroom during a discussion.  We still get to do group work in break out rooms, which you said you don't. So -- Thanks again, for calling my work garbage. Notice I didn't say that about you or anyone else who loves being in their school building right now.

You yourself, in a post pages back, spoke of being hemmed into a corner of your classroom behind a protective shield, with teachers stressed the fuck out and having panic attacks in your building. You yourself said kids do no group work, don't leave the room, not even to eat. You don't call that a disruption? I've got two friends in buildings (one private and one public) doing the "concurrent model" where they're teaching kids in the room while kids at home are dialed in -- they don't know who's coming and going; half the time they can't attend to the kids online while they work with kids in the room. They're dressed to the nines in protective gear, "hearing" about cases that are NOT getting reported. You don't call that disruptive? I'm not saying it's garbage, but it ain't fucking normal.

We're all making the most out of a really shitty situation. Instead of disparaging each other, and attacking teachers working from home -- who by the way, don't make the fucking decision to open or close schools --, we ought to recognize that it's hard for everybody, nobody wants to be doing what we're doing -- in school or at home. 

As everything else goes with this pandemic, all that matters is ME, ME, ME. MY kid. MY family. MY job. MY opinion. Okay. I get it. Carry on with your life and leave the judgment about everyone else alone. Because my students are working their asses off, their families are doing the best they can to support them and me, and it's not garbage. 

oftenreading

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

bbiggs said:

Whether it’s good for kids to be in the classroom or not can be debated endlessly. The kids getting 100% remote learning are not getting the same quality of education though. Especially at the elementary level.  As a parent, that part is troubling. 

Well there is a teacher here who will rant and rave about us fucking parents who want babysitters or friends for our kids.

Of course I agree with you -- and our schools have not opened back up, although try #3 is set for Tuesday of this week.  (They stood down for the first two tries the day prior, so we expect to see an announcement on Monday.) 

Worth mentioning that we elected (and still elect) to keep our child home from school and to forsake the babysitters and playmates.

It is pretty tough, really -- I mean, free babysitting and playmates are super tough to get past.

For us, it does not make sense to put ourselves at risk when we know we cannot trust everyone in the community to try and be safe and follow rules and send their kids to school.  I don't think that the teachers should be exposed to the children of morons, either.

Many parents disagree with us and do follow the rules -- I do believe that many do want to have their kids back in because they want them to be in the best learning environment.  These are parents who also work with their kids and enroll their kids in extra stuff like kumon. 

Damn.  Free babysitting, though.  It would be great.  Us parents are such fools.

I ll teach your kids, in exchange you can send me scotch, pizza and ketel one.  

What a deal!

F Me In The Brain

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

bbiggs said:

Whether it’s good for kids to be in the classroom or not can be debated endlessly. The kids getting 100% remote learning are not getting the same quality of education though. Especially at the elementary level.  As a parent, that part is troubling. 

Well there is a teacher here who will rant and rave about us fucking parents who want babysitters or friends for our kids.

Of course I agree with you -- and our schools have not opened back up, although try #3 is set for Tuesday of this week.  (They stood down for the first two tries the day prior, so we expect to see an announcement on Monday.) 

Worth mentioning that we elected (and still elect) to keep our child home from school and to forsake the babysitters and playmates.

It is pretty tough, really -- I mean, free babysitting and playmates are super tough to get past.

For us, it does not make sense to put ourselves at risk when we know we cannot trust everyone in the community to try and be safe and follow rules and send their kids to school.  I don't think that the teachers should be exposed to the children of morons, either.

Many parents disagree with us and do follow the rules -- I do believe that many do want to have their kids back in because they want them to be in the best learning environment.  These are parents who also work with their kids and enroll their kids in extra stuff like kumon. 

Damn.  Free babysitting, though.  It would be great.  Us parents are such fools.

I ll teach your kids, in exchange you can send me scotch, pizza and ketel one.  

Hahaha.  Nice.
You know how to do it - undoubtedly would do better than we do.  Luckily he is pretty bright and once he focuses he does the work fairly easily

HughFreakingDillon

i'm not really sure why one person's personal experience with zoom is considered a personal attack, but ok. 

F Me In The Brain

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lot of people making noise in my neck of the woods about "why can kids go to school but the restaurants and bars have to close?". because, geniuses, the kids actually fucking listen to protocols and take direction seriously, where the adults don't. there's a reason there's very few cases in our schools and kids getting infected. it's all the stupid fucking adults that can't stay home and have a zoom happy hour. 

Middle school kids definitely don’t here. The second they’re out for recess the mask is off, they’re wrestling, hugging, whatever. In class t he y follow the rules, but not in hallways and recess.

But I still think that’s a dumb argument, comparing schools to bars are 2 different animals.

I don't have kids or truly understand how they're behaving but my gut reaction would be that kids might be worse than adults. Or, rather that kids would be better than petulant/obstinate adults but not as good as responsible adults.  In any case, I agree that "what about schools?" is a lame deflection. They can talk about whether or not in-person school is a good idea but it's neither here nor there for validating hanging out in bars.

everything i've seen over the course of the last several months, now admittedly, this is limited to my daughters and their classmates/friends, the kids are doing amazingly well and are being way better about it than the adults i've encountered. 

maybe it's a canadian thing. 

My school is the same way.  Maybe it s a Winnipeg/New Jersey thing. 

My sisters kids too. 

Maybe it's a Winnipeg/New Jersey/Trollhättan thing

Yes!  I love it.   

In BC the schools are doing really well too. The kids have been back since September and there have been scattered, minimal cases and no outbreaks. The evidence that we have keeps showing that community spread is happening most in restaurants, bars and gyms. There are solid grounds to shut down those places and keep schools running.  

Same in nj.  As a teacher and parent I hope and pray the governor does not shut down schools again.  I think we have had four cases in our school (1200 students plus around 85 faculty members).  

Exponential spread. Four cases in your school (that you know of) turns into how many in the community? 
I'm not disputing anyone's preference for schools being open or closed, or the reasons why. I'm just questioning why we would minimize the math when we know four cases doesn't stop at four cases.

You really can't look at it that way though since you do not know where they got it from. Yes obviously if they got it from another kid in class and spread it to their family and then to others then that is not good. But if there has only been 4 cases in the last 3 months in his school I think it is pretty obvious that it is not being spread in the school and it is coming from outside sources and they would have spread that way anyways whether schools were open or not. 

People keep talking as though there is this thing called school and a completely different thing called community.

Schools are PART OF communities. Community spread and school spread are NOT SEPARATE from each other. 

The virus doesn't give a shit where it spreads.

But how and where it spreads is important within the context of schools being opened or closed. Again if there are 4 cases and they were not spread at school that is very noteworthy. They did not get it at the school therefore schools being opened did not have an impact on anyone outside of the schools getting it as well as you stated. Thats all I am trying to say and that is an important point when saying that kids are taking it home and getting others sick as you did. 

I should clarify that I think this is happening in other schools for sure just this example however I do not see it. 

I remember reading some lame ass WAPO opinion from the "open the schools now" public health crowd, where they shared this mind boggling data supposedly to support their argument -- in communities where schools are closed, spread is low. In communities where school is open, spread is high. In my family, we would say "No shit Sherlock" when faced with this type of data.

I'm not of any opinion whatsoever about school being open or closed. I will do my job to the best of my ability wherever they tell me to go. I just wish people would quit pretending that this is about anything but parents needing babysitters and playmates for their kids. It has nothing to do with learning.

Since we're sharing anecdotes, I can tell you that my colleague-friends who are back in buildings are not accomplishing any more in their classrooms than I'm accomplishing at home on the computer because of the disruptions and the stress. All I've heard from "professional developers" over the past decade is that "kids can't learn if they don't feel safe." So now we throw them in a building where nobody feels safe. Sure. Gotcha. I will remember that at my next training on social-emotional learning. 

I disagree 100% based solely on what I have witnessed in grades k-8.  In person teaching is the way to go; teaching via zoom is total garbage.  What disruptions are you seeing?  

Thanks for calling my work over Zoom with middle school students "garbage."  Tell that to my student who show up every single day -- one of whom was temporarily homeless through this, dialing in from a fucking hotel room and still reading, writing, passing the same quizzes and projects I would give in class. I'm working into the night hours creating engaging presentation, learning all kinds of ways to get them to participate. And because of some tools like chat and polls, I can guarantee a response from every singe child instead of waiting for the same damn kid to raise her hand like I used to in a classroom during a discussion.  We still get to do group work in break out rooms, which you said you don't. So -- Thanks again, for calling my work garbage. Notice I didn't say that about you or anyone else who loves being in their school building right now.

You yourself, in a post pages back, spoke of being hemmed into a corner of your classroom behind a protective shield, with teachers stressed the fuck out and having panic attacks in your building. You yourself said kids do no group work, don't leave the room, not even to eat. You don't call that a disruption? I've got two friends in buildings (one private and one public) doing the "concurrent model" where they're teaching kids in the room while kids at home are dialed in -- they don't know who's coming and going; half the time they can't attend to the kids online while they work with kids in the room. They're dressed to the nines in protective gear, "hearing" about cases that are NOT getting reported. You don't call that disruptive? I'm not saying it's garbage, but it ain't fucking normal.

We're all making the most out of a really shitty situation. Instead of disparaging each other, and attacking teachers working from home -- who by the way, don't make the fucking decision to open or close schools --, we ought to recognize that it's hard for everybody, nobody wants to be doing what we're doing -- in school or at home. 

As everything else goes with this pandemic, all that matters is ME, ME, ME. MY kid. MY family. MY job. MY opinion. Okay. I get it. Carry on with your life and leave the judgment about everyone else alone. Because my students are working their asses off, their families are doing the best they can to support them and me, and it's not garbage. 

Perhaps you could go for a walk or find something relaxing today.  Seems that might be beneficial for you based on what we are reading here.  It is a tough situation for all and everyone is stressed out.  Your scenario is one that sounds like is working for some kids and that is good

F Me In The Brain

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

bbiggs said:

Whether it’s good for kids to be in the classroom or not can be debated endlessly. The kids getting 100% remote learning are not getting the same quality of education though. Especially at the elementary level.  As a parent, that part is troubling. 

Well there is a teacher here who will rant and rave about us fucking parents who want babysitters or friends for our kids.

Of course I agree with you -- and our schools have not opened back up, although try #3 is set for Tuesday of this week.  (They stood down for the first two tries the day prior, so we expect to see an announcement on Monday.) 

Worth mentioning that we elected (and still elect) to keep our child home from school and to forsake the babysitters and playmates.

It is pretty tough, really -- I mean, free babysitting and playmates are super tough to get past.

For us, it does not make sense to put ourselves at risk when we know we cannot trust everyone in the community to try and be safe and follow rules and send their kids to school.  I don't think that the teachers should be exposed to the children of morons, either.

Many parents disagree with us and do follow the rules -- I do believe that many do want to have their kids back in because they want them to be in the best learning environment.  These are parents who also work with their kids and enroll their kids in extra stuff like kumon. 

Damn.  Free babysitting, though.  It would be great.  Us parents are such fools.

I ll teach your kids, in exchange you can send me scotch, pizza and ketel one.  

What a deal!

Easy - Celeste's....kentucky gentleman "scotch product" and an airline bottle of Ketel One.

mcgruff10

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lot of people making noise in my neck of the woods about "why can kids go to school but the restaurants and bars have to close?". because, geniuses, the kids actually fucking listen to protocols and take direction seriously, where the adults don't. there's a reason there's very few cases in our schools and kids getting infected. it's all the stupid fucking adults that can't stay home and have a zoom happy hour. 

Middle school kids definitely don’t here. The second they’re out for recess the mask is off, they’re wrestling, hugging, whatever. In class t he y follow the rules, but not in hallways and recess.

But I still think that’s a dumb argument, comparing schools to bars are 2 different animals.

I don't have kids or truly understand how they're behaving but my gut reaction would be that kids might be worse than adults. Or, rather that kids would be better than petulant/obstinate adults but not as good as responsible adults.  In any case, I agree that "what about schools?" is a lame deflection. They can talk about whether or not in-person school is a good idea but it's neither here nor there for validating hanging out in bars.

everything i've seen over the course of the last several months, now admittedly, this is limited to my daughters and their classmates/friends, the kids are doing amazingly well and are being way better about it than the adults i've encountered. 

maybe it's a canadian thing. 

My school is the same way.  Maybe it s a Winnipeg/New Jersey thing. 

My sisters kids too. 

Maybe it's a Winnipeg/New Jersey/Trollhättan thing

Yes!  I love it.   

In BC the schools are doing really well too. The kids have been back since September and there have been scattered, minimal cases and no outbreaks. The evidence that we have keeps showing that community spread is happening most in restaurants, bars and gyms. There are solid grounds to shut down those places and keep schools running.  

Same in nj.  As a teacher and parent I hope and pray the governor does not shut down schools again.  I think we have had four cases in our school (1200 students plus around 85 faculty members).  

Exponential spread. Four cases in your school (that you know of) turns into how many in the community? 
I'm not disputing anyone's preference for schools being open or closed, or the reasons why. I'm just questioning why we would minimize the math when we know four cases doesn't stop at four cases.

You really can't look at it that way though since you do not know where they got it from. Yes obviously if they got it from another kid in class and spread it to their family and then to others then that is not good. But if there has only been 4 cases in the last 3 months in his school I think it is pretty obvious that it is not being spread in the school and it is coming from outside sources and they would have spread that way anyways whether schools were open or not. 

People keep talking as though there is this thing called school and a completely different thing called community.

Schools are PART OF communities. Community spread and school spread are NOT SEPARATE from each other. 

The virus doesn't give a shit where it spreads.

But how and where it spreads is important within the context of schools being opened or closed. Again if there are 4 cases and they were not spread at school that is very noteworthy. They did not get it at the school therefore schools being opened did not have an impact on anyone outside of the schools getting it as well as you stated. Thats all I am trying to say and that is an important point when saying that kids are taking it home and getting others sick as you did. 

I should clarify that I think this is happening in other schools for sure just this example however I do not see it. 

I remember reading some lame ass WAPO opinion from the "open the schools now" public health crowd, where they shared this mind boggling data supposedly to support their argument -- in communities where schools are closed, spread is low. In communities where school is open, spread is high. In my family, we would say "No shit Sherlock" when faced with this type of data.

I'm not of any opinion whatsoever about school being open or closed. I will do my job to the best of my ability wherever they tell me to go. I just wish people would quit pretending that this is about anything but parents needing babysitters and playmates for their kids. It has nothing to do with learning.

Since we're sharing anecdotes, I can tell you that my colleague-friends who are back in buildings are not accomplishing any more in their classrooms than I'm accomplishing at home on the computer because of the disruptions and the stress. All I've heard from "professional developers" over the past decade is that "kids can't learn if they don't feel safe." So now we throw them in a building where nobody feels safe. Sure. Gotcha. I will remember that at my next training on social-emotional learning. 

I disagree 100% based solely on what I have witnessed in grades k-8.  In person teaching is the way to go; teaching via zoom is total garbage.  What disruptions are you seeing?  

Thanks for calling my work over Zoom with middle school students "garbage."  Tell that to my student who show up every single day -- one of whom was temporarily homeless through this, dialing in from a fucking hotel room and still reading, writing, passing the same quizzes and projects I would give in class. I'm working into the night hours creating engaging presentation, learning all kinds of ways to get them to participate. And because of some tools like chat and polls, I can guarantee a response from every singe child instead of waiting for the same damn kid to raise her hand like I used to in a classroom during a discussion.  We still get to do group work in break out rooms, which you said you don't. So -- Thanks again, for calling my work garbage. Notice I didn't say that about you or anyone else who loves being in their school building right now.

You yourself, in a post pages back, spoke of being hemmed into a corner of your classroom behind a protective shield, with teachers stressed the fuck out and having panic attacks in your building. You yourself said kids do no group work, don't leave the room, not even to eat. You don't call that a disruption? I've got two friends in buildings (one private and one public) doing the "concurrent model" where they're teaching kids in the room while kids at home are dialed in -- they don't know who's coming and going; half the time they can't attend to the kids online while they work with kids in the room. They're dressed to the nines in protective gear, "hearing" about cases that are NOT getting reported. You don't call that disruptive? I'm not saying it's garbage, but it ain't fucking normal.

We're all making the most out of a really shitty situation. Instead of disparaging each other, and attacking teachers working from home -- who by the way, don't make the fucking decision to open or close schools --, we ought to recognize that it's hard for everybody, nobody wants to be doing what we're doing -- in school or at home. 

As everything else goes with this pandemic, all that matters is ME, ME, ME. MY kid. MY family. MY job. MY opinion. Okay. I get it. Carry on with your life and leave the judgment about everyone else alone. Because my students are working their asses off, their families are doing the best they can to support them and me, and it's not garbage. 

We all are planning and trying to adjust in these crazy times.  Yeah I m in a corner in my classroom which totally sucks but I make it work.  I make the kids laugh, I teach the curriculum, I hold them accountable and at the end of the day I really do believe I do a kick ass job.  I still think teaching via zoom is garbage as compared to the real deal.  (I do both at the same time.) I see myself as jimmy Fallon lol.  

what dreams

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lot of people making noise in my neck of the woods about "why can kids go to school but the restaurants and bars have to close?". because, geniuses, the kids actually fucking listen to protocols and take direction seriously, where the adults don't. there's a reason there's very few cases in our schools and kids getting infected. it's all the stupid fucking adults that can't stay home and have a zoom happy hour. 

Middle school kids definitely don’t here. The second they’re out for recess the mask is off, they’re wrestling, hugging, whatever. In class t he y follow the rules, but not in hallways and recess.

But I still think that’s a dumb argument, comparing schools to bars are 2 different animals.

I don't have kids or truly understand how they're behaving but my gut reaction would be that kids might be worse than adults. Or, rather that kids would be better than petulant/obstinate adults but not as good as responsible adults.  In any case, I agree that "what about schools?" is a lame deflection. They can talk about whether or not in-person school is a good idea but it's neither here nor there for validating hanging out in bars.

everything i've seen over the course of the last several months, now admittedly, this is limited to my daughters and their classmates/friends, the kids are doing amazingly well and are being way better about it than the adults i've encountered. 

maybe it's a canadian thing. 

My school is the same way.  Maybe it s a Winnipeg/New Jersey thing. 

My sisters kids too. 

Maybe it's a Winnipeg/New Jersey/Trollhättan thing

Yes!  I love it.   

In BC the schools are doing really well too. The kids have been back since September and there have been scattered, minimal cases and no outbreaks. The evidence that we have keeps showing that community spread is happening most in restaurants, bars and gyms. There are solid grounds to shut down those places and keep schools running.  

Same in nj.  As a teacher and parent I hope and pray the governor does not shut down schools again.  I think we have had four cases in our school (1200 students plus around 85 faculty members).  

Exponential spread. Four cases in your school (that you know of) turns into how many in the community? 
I'm not disputing anyone's preference for schools being open or closed, or the reasons why. I'm just questioning why we would minimize the math when we know four cases doesn't stop at four cases.

You really can't look at it that way though since you do not know where they got it from. Yes obviously if they got it from another kid in class and spread it to their family and then to others then that is not good. But if there has only been 4 cases in the last 3 months in his school I think it is pretty obvious that it is not being spread in the school and it is coming from outside sources and they would have spread that way anyways whether schools were open or not. 

People keep talking as though there is this thing called school and a completely different thing called community.

Schools are PART OF communities. Community spread and school spread are NOT SEPARATE from each other. 

The virus doesn't give a shit where it spreads.

But how and where it spreads is important within the context of schools being opened or closed. Again if there are 4 cases and they were not spread at school that is very noteworthy. They did not get it at the school therefore schools being opened did not have an impact on anyone outside of the schools getting it as well as you stated. Thats all I am trying to say and that is an important point when saying that kids are taking it home and getting others sick as you did. 

I should clarify that I think this is happening in other schools for sure just this example however I do not see it. 

I remember reading some lame ass WAPO opinion from the "open the schools now" public health crowd, where they shared this mind boggling data supposedly to support their argument -- in communities where schools are closed, spread is low. In communities where school is open, spread is high. In my family, we would say "No shit Sherlock" when faced with this type of data.

I'm not of any opinion whatsoever about school being open or closed. I will do my job to the best of my ability wherever they tell me to go. I just wish people would quit pretending that this is about anything but parents needing babysitters and playmates for their kids. It has nothing to do with learning.

Since we're sharing anecdotes, I can tell you that my colleague-friends who are back in buildings are not accomplishing any more in their classrooms than I'm accomplishing at home on the computer because of the disruptions and the stress. All I've heard from "professional developers" over the past decade is that "kids can't learn if they don't feel safe." So now we throw them in a building where nobody feels safe. Sure. Gotcha. I will remember that at my next training on social-emotional learning. 

I disagree 100% based solely on what I have witnessed in grades k-8.  In person teaching is the way to go; teaching via zoom is total garbage.  What disruptions are you seeing?  

Thanks for calling my work over Zoom with middle school students "garbage."  Tell that to my student who show up every single day -- one of whom was temporarily homeless through this, dialing in from a fucking hotel room and still reading, writing, passing the same quizzes and projects I would give in class. I'm working into the night hours creating engaging presentation, learning all kinds of ways to get them to participate. And because of some tools like chat and polls, I can guarantee a response from every singe child instead of waiting for the same damn kid to raise her hand like I used to in a classroom during a discussion.  We still get to do group work in break out rooms, which you said you don't. So -- Thanks again, for calling my work garbage. Notice I didn't say that about you or anyone else who loves being in their school building right now.

You yourself, in a post pages back, spoke of being hemmed into a corner of your classroom behind a protective shield, with teachers stressed the fuck out and having panic attacks in your building. You yourself said kids do no group work, don't leave the room, not even to eat. You don't call that a disruption? I've got two friends in buildings (one private and one public) doing the "concurrent model" where they're teaching kids in the room while kids at home are dialed in -- they don't know who's coming and going; half the time they can't attend to the kids online while they work with kids in the room. They're dressed to the nines in protective gear, "hearing" about cases that are NOT getting reported. You don't call that disruptive? I'm not saying it's garbage, but it ain't fucking normal.

We're all making the most out of a really shitty situation. Instead of disparaging each other, and attacking teachers working from home -- who by the way, don't make the fucking decision to open or close schools --, we ought to recognize that it's hard for everybody, nobody wants to be doing what we're doing -- in school or at home. 

As everything else goes with this pandemic, all that matters is ME, ME, ME. MY kid. MY family. MY job. MY opinion. Okay. I get it. Carry on with your life and leave the judgment about everyone else alone. Because my students are working their asses off, their families are doing the best they can to support them and me, and it's not garbage. 

We all are planning and trying to adjust in these crazy times.  Yeah I m in a corner in my classroom which totally sucks but I make it work.  I make the kids laugh, I teach the curriculum, I hold them accountable and at the end of the day I really do believe I do a kick ass job.  I still think teaching via zoom is garbage as compared to the real deal.  (I do both at the same time.) I see myself as jimmy Fallon lol.  

Well congratulations, you are so much better than all the rest of us. I'll remember to tell more jokes, teach the curriculum, and hold kids accountable moving forward.

mcgruff10

F Me In The Brain said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

bbiggs said:

Whether it’s good for kids to be in the classroom or not can be debated endlessly. The kids getting 100% remote learning are not getting the same quality of education though. Especially at the elementary level.  As a parent, that part is troubling. 

Well there is a teacher here who will rant and rave about us fucking parents who want babysitters or friends for our kids.

Of course I agree with you -- and our schools have not opened back up, although try #3 is set for Tuesday of this week.  (They stood down for the first two tries the day prior, so we expect to see an announcement on Monday.) 

Worth mentioning that we elected (and still elect) to keep our child home from school and to forsake the babysitters and playmates.

It is pretty tough, really -- I mean, free babysitting and playmates are super tough to get past.

For us, it does not make sense to put ourselves at risk when we know we cannot trust everyone in the community to try and be safe and follow rules and send their kids to school.  I don't think that the teachers should be exposed to the children of morons, either.

Many parents disagree with us and do follow the rules -- I do believe that many do want to have their kids back in because they want them to be in the best learning environment.  These are parents who also work with their kids and enroll their kids in extra stuff like kumon. 

Damn.  Free babysitting, though.  It would be great.  Us parents are such fools.

I ll teach your kids, in exchange you can send me scotch, pizza and ketel one.  

What a deal!

Easy - Celeste's....kentucky gentleman "scotch product" and an airline bottle of Ketel One.

Oh baby what a deal!!!

static111

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

PJNB said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

lot of people making noise in my neck of the woods about "why can kids go to school but the restaurants and bars have to close?". because, geniuses, the kids actually fucking listen to protocols and take direction seriously, where the adults don't. there's a reason there's very few cases in our schools and kids getting infected. it's all the stupid fucking adults that can't stay home and have a zoom happy hour. 

Middle school kids definitely don’t here. The second they’re out for recess the mask is off, they’re wrestling, hugging, whatever. In class t he y follow the rules, but not in hallways and recess.

But I still think that’s a dumb argument, comparing schools to bars are 2 different animals.

I don't have kids or truly understand how they're behaving but my gut reaction would be that kids might be worse than adults. Or, rather that kids would be better than petulant/obstinate adults but not as good as responsible adults.  In any case, I agree that "what about schools?" is a lame deflection. They can talk about whether or not in-person school is a good idea but it's neither here nor there for validating hanging out in bars.

everything i've seen over the course of the last several months, now admittedly, this is limited to my daughters and their classmates/friends, the kids are doing amazingly well and are being way better about it than the adults i've encountered. 

maybe it's a canadian thing. 

My school is the same way.  Maybe it s a Winnipeg/New Jersey thing. 

My sisters kids too. 

Maybe it's a Winnipeg/New Jersey/Trollhättan thing

Yes!  I love it.   

In BC the schools are doing really well too. The kids have been back since September and there have been scattered, minimal cases and no outbreaks. The evidence that we have keeps showing that community spread is happening most in restaurants, bars and gyms. There are solid grounds to shut down those places and keep schools running.  

Same in nj.  As a teacher and parent I hope and pray the governor does not shut down schools again.  I think we have had four cases in our school (1200 students plus around 85 faculty members).  

Exponential spread. Four cases in your school (that you know of) turns into how many in the community? 
I'm not disputing anyone's preference for schools being open or closed, or the reasons why. I'm just questioning why we would minimize the math when we know four cases doesn't stop at four cases.

You really can't look at it that way though since you do not know where they got it from. Yes obviously if they got it from another kid in class and spread it to their family and then to others then that is not good. But if there has only been 4 cases in the last 3 months in his school I think it is pretty obvious that it is not being spread in the school and it is coming from outside sources and they would have spread that way anyways whether schools were open or not. 

People keep talking as though there is this thing called school and a completely different thing called community.

Schools are PART OF communities. Community spread and school spread are NOT SEPARATE from each other. 

The virus doesn't give a shit where it spreads.

But how and where it spreads is important within the context of schools being opened or closed. Again if there are 4 cases and they were not spread at school that is very noteworthy. They did not get it at the school therefore schools being opened did not have an impact on anyone outside of the schools getting it as well as you stated. Thats all I am trying to say and that is an important point when saying that kids are taking it home and getting others sick as you did. 

I should clarify that I think this is happening in other schools for sure just this example however I do not see it. 

I remember reading some lame ass WAPO opinion from the "open the schools now" public health crowd, where they shared this mind boggling data supposedly to support their argument -- in communities where schools are closed, spread is low. In communities where school is open, spread is high. In my family, we would say "No shit Sherlock" when faced with this type of data.

I'm not of any opinion whatsoever about school being open or closed. I will do my job to the best of my ability wherever they tell me to go. I just wish people would quit pretending that this is about anything but parents needing babysitters and playmates for their kids. It has nothing to do with learning.

Since we're sharing anecdotes, I can tell you that my colleague-friends who are back in buildings are not accomplishing any more in their classrooms than I'm accomplishing at home on the computer because of the disruptions and the stress. All I've heard from "professional developers" over the past decade is that "kids can't learn if they don't feel safe." So now we throw them in a building where nobody feels safe. Sure. Gotcha. I will remember that at my next training on social-emotional learning. 

I disagree 100% based solely on what I have witnessed in grades k-8.  In person teaching is the way to go; teaching via zoom is total garbage.  What disruptions are you seeing?  

Thanks for calling my work over Zoom with middle school students "garbage."  Tell that to my student who show up every single day -- one of whom was temporarily homeless through this, dialing in from a fucking hotel room and still reading, writing, passing the same quizzes and projects I would give in class. I'm working into the night hours creating engaging presentation, learning all kinds of ways to get them to participate. And because of some tools like chat and polls, I can guarantee a response from every singe child instead of waiting for the same damn kid to raise her hand like I used to in a classroom during a discussion.  We still get to do group work in break out rooms, which you said you don't. So -- Thanks again, for calling my work garbage. Notice I didn't say that about you or anyone else who loves being in their school building right now.

You yourself, in a post pages back, spoke of being hemmed into a corner of your classroom behind a protective shield, with teachers stressed the fuck out and having panic attacks in your building. You yourself said kids do no group work, don't leave the room, not even to eat. You don't call that a disruption? I've got two friends in buildings (one private and one public) doing the "concurrent model" where they're teaching kids in the room while kids at home are dialed in -- they don't know who's coming and going; half the time they can't attend to the kids online while they work with kids in the room. They're dressed to the nines in protective gear, "hearing" about cases that are NOT getting reported. You don't call that disruptive? I'm not saying it's garbage, but it ain't fucking normal.

We're all making the most out of a really shitty situation. Instead of disparaging each other, and attacking teachers working from home -- who by the way, don't make the fucking decision to open or close schools --, we ought to recognize that it's hard for everybody, nobody wants to be doing what we're doing -- in school or at home. 

As everything else goes with this pandemic, all that matters is ME, ME, ME. MY kid. MY family. MY job. MY opinion. Okay. I get it. Carry on with your life and leave the judgment about everyone else alone. Because my students are working their asses off, their families are doing the best they can to support them and me, and it's not garbage. 

I don’t agree with what dreams often, so I will take the time to back her up on this.  Online learning is not garbage!  Our 9 year old is learning more things faster especially when it comes to math with online than she ever did with in class.  All of the distractions are removed so all she pays attention to are her great teachers.  The kids have 15 minutes between each class to chat play games etc and when the next class started the control goes back to the teachers.  Our daughter is safe.  Then after school and weekends we get to set up play dates with friends and parents we know we can trust, everyone meets at a park and we adults oversee that the kids wear masks and social distance while we do the same.  

I’m going to agree with What Dreams again on the point that other than extenuating circumstances, returning kids to school in person is all about babysitting.  Parents are forced to go to work in person because they can’t afford not to, and child care is an additional expense many can’t afford.  I do t think it’s selfish I think it’s about economic survival.

What Dreams, Mcgruff and all the rest of the teachers you are doing great work...try not to disparage each other or fall into believing that the way you do it is the only way.