Can someone explain to me why the US would not be able to return back to normal before this time next year? If everyone is vaccinated by summer what is stopping them from opening back up? I get that the variants are in question as is the length of time the vaccine works but are we seriously going to have restrictions in place just in case of a variant or length of the vaccine is not what we think it is? We are doing this to limit the hospitalizations and deaths and help the hospitals not become full to the point the health system would collapse.
Lets say everyone is vaccinated by August. It should be earlier but lets use that month. How is the government going to justify restrictions for another 6 months if the vaccine does what we hope it does? I see this being a huge issue for the Dems regarding the 2022 elections. People for the most part have been great regarding the rules. That goodwill will be long gone I think if we are still a year away from normalcy.
because 60% of republicans, which is about 30% of the population, have stated that they will not take any form of covid vaccine. this is only going to delay things opening back up.
you can not reach the level of immunity needed to safely open up when only 65% of people will even be willing to take a vaccine.
do not implicate all americans in the stupidity and ignorance of the minority.
also. i do not know where you are located, but people here refuse to even mask up. around here fewer and fewer people are being good about following the rules.
Is there real data that suggests the only people unwilling to take the vaccine are Republicans? If so, that is remarkable. There was a fairly significant anti-vaxxer movement prior to Covid (and still is) and I know that some of the most vocal advocates leading the charge are not Republicans. This would be an interesting data point to see.
I think what's more important than the percentage of the overall population that is unwilling to get vaccinated, is the percentage of the elderly and most at-risk population that is unwilling to get vaccinated. I do not have supporting data, but I am guessing that percentage is extremely low. If my assumption is correct, then not opening up because a relatively small percentage of the population (that is not high risk for serious illness or death) is unwilling to take a vaccine seems like a bad move. If that group gets sick and infects one another, that is a conscious decision that they made, full well knowing the risks. It is not putting the rest of the population at risk and/or putting a strain on hospitals. That has always been the goal, right?
My take has been, and remains, that when every American has been given the opportunity to be vaccinated, it is time to move forward towards normalcy. For those that have decided to forego the vaccine, that is on them.
I totally agree with this, especially the last part. When we get to the point that everyone has had the opportunity to get the vaccine, but some are holding out or outright refuse to get it, then any of their complaints about society moving forward or getting “left behind” should be completely ignored. At that point, I will have no sympathy for those that refuse the vaccine and get a bad case of the virus.
Personally I think everyone has a social obligation to get the vaccine once available, less be barred from certain activities that the vaccinated can enjoy, such as concerts or sporting events. Immigrants should also have to take the vaccine before being able to roam freely in the country. I have no problem shaming people that refuse to get vaccinated.
Yes. I had this discussion with my wife recently. Her parents are refusing to be vaccinated, so she wants to continue not seeing them and not having them see their grandchildren. I told her that was not very cool. Once a vaccination has been offered to everyone, we can no longer worry about killing grandma and grandpa. If they die, it was by suicide by ignorance.
Agree 100% with this.
Life has to move on and if people aren't willing to get the vaccine, that's on them.
The Dems caused the pandemic to get rid of Trump is the dumbest claim out of all of the dumb Trump suckers' dumb claims.
What about the rest of the world, idiots?
The whole world did this to get rid of one obese 🤡?
Idiotic.
Remember Trump saying you won't hear anything about the virus after November 4th?
Fucking morons
They really are the dumbest people around.
"We are over wearing masks"
"People need to get out"
WTF does that have to do with keeping the number of people infected/hospitalized as low as possible until the vaccines are available to all?
Especially now that we have a date for that, as provided yesterday? If the vaccine will be made available to any adult in the US who wants it by the end of May...why not wait until the right number of days into June to allow for the vaccine to kick in to open the states back up?
At that point, anti-vaxxers are on their own. At least the hospitals will be ready to help them if they do get sick.
The whole world conspired to get fatboy out of office by making the pandemic seem worse than it was.
Fools!
Because 40% of the people in this country are characters in this movie. They're not even real people anymore.
Here is Halifax and F Me...
When have I ever expressed a lack of compassion for someone who contracts covid or wished death upon children? Talk about loosening up your three masks and getting some oxygen to your brain.
The Dems caused the pandemic to get rid of Trump is the dumbest claim out of all of the dumb Trump suckers' dumb claims.
What about the rest of the world, idiots?
The whole world did this to get rid of one obese 🤡?
Idiotic.
Remember Trump saying you won't hear anything about the virus after November 4th?
Fucking morons
They really are the dumbest people around.
"We are over wearing masks"
"People need to get out"
WTF does that have to do with keeping the number of people infected/hospitalized as low as possible until the vaccines are available to all?
Especially now that we have a date for that, as provided yesterday? If the vaccine will be made available to any adult in the US who wants it by the end of May...why not wait until the right number of days into June to allow for the vaccine to kick in to open the states back up?
At that point, anti-vaxxers are on their own. At least the hospitals will be ready to help them if they do get sick.
The whole world conspired to get fatboy out of office by making the pandemic seem worse than it was.
Fools!
Because 40% of the people in this country are characters in this movie. They're not even real people anymore.
Here is Halifax and F Me...
What right wing twitter account did you get that from?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I would never wish death upon a child. You would never say that to me IRL. I don't even wish death on the assholes who caused this issue to be so much worse because they refused to work to try and keep the virus down. That is awful. You make your troll jokes
There you are. I would never say that to you IRL? What does that even mean? If I said that to you, you would beat me up? Probably wouldn't happen, not because you couldn't, I am quite sure you could, but because you wouldn't get close enough to me being maskless.
And you keep throwing that blame on those "people who refused to work to try to keep the virus down"! Please, do not put any blame on the Governors and public health types who have advised us this whole time.
Can someone explain to me why the US would not be able to return back to normal before this time next year? If everyone is vaccinated by summer what is stopping them from opening back up? I get that the variants are in question as is the length of time the vaccine works but are we seriously going to have restrictions in place just in case of a variant or length of the vaccine is not what we think it is? We are doing this to limit the hospitalizations and deaths and help the hospitals not become full to the point the health system would collapse.
Lets say everyone is vaccinated by August. It should be earlier but lets use that month. How is the government going to justify restrictions for another 6 months if the vaccine does what we hope it does? I see this being a huge issue for the Dems regarding the 2022 elections. People for the most part have been great regarding the rules. That goodwill will be long gone I think if we are still a year away from normalcy.
because 60% of republicans, which is about 30% of the population, have stated that they will not take any form of covid vaccine. this is only going to delay things opening back up.
you can not reach the level of immunity needed to safely open up when only 65% of people will even be willing to take a vaccine.
do not implicate all americans in the stupidity and ignorance of the minority.
also. i do not know where you are located, but people here refuse to even mask up. around here fewer and fewer people are being good about following the rules.
With the vaccines being 95%+ effective, essentially the only ones at risk are those who don't take the vaccine. Still makes sense to open once the vaccine is available if the only concern are those unvaccinated.
Here in good ol’ CA, it’s about 50/50 when it comes to masks, at least in LA. The majority without seem to be younger. Every elderly person I encounter is masked.
It can’t be that difficult to just be safe, exercise consideration, protocols, etc...can it?
My opinion, which many here will tell you is complete shit and that's fine, is that it is not that difficult to do those things. Many people, myself included, have did those things for weeks and months only to realize those advising me (1) are not doing those things themselves and (b) those things are not doing anything to stop the virus. We were told life will be back to normal when the vaccines get here, only to be told that if you are vaccinated you still have to mask, distance, the works. At what point is enough, enough? People are tired of it.
Here is video of a liberal doctor on Tucker (yes, I know)... I think she describes it well... It's two minutes and worth watching til the end...
I totally agree with this, especially the last part. When we get to the point that everyone has had the opportunity to get the vaccine, but some are holding out or outright refuse to get it, then any of their complaints about society moving forward or getting “left behind” should be completely ignored. At that point, I will have no sympathy for those that refuse the vaccine and get a bad case of the virus.
Personally I think everyone has a social obligation to get the vaccine once available, less be barred from certain activities that the vaccinated can enjoy, such as concerts or sporting events. Immigrants should also have to take the vaccine before being able to roam freely in the country or gain citizenship. I have no problem shaming people that refuse to get vaccinated. “Anti-vaxxers” are a burden on society.
I think we are all agreeing with bbiggs, who made a well thought out post.
I disagree with this statement though. What does it matter if the vaccinated and non-vaccinated are in the same place together? The vaccinated should feel safe and those who are not know the dangers that the event they are attending. We never make people show proof of the flu vaccine before attending events, not sure why we should start now?
Here in good ol’ CA, it’s about 50/50 when it comes to masks, at least in LA. The majority without seem to be younger. Every elderly person I encounter is masked.
It can’t be that difficult to just be safe, exercise consideration, protocols, etc...can it?
My opinion, which many here will tell you is complete shit and that's fine, is that it is not that difficult to do those things. Many people, myself included, have did those things for weeks and months only to realize those advising me (1) are not doing those things themselves and (b) those things are not doing anything to stop the virus. We were told life will be back to normal when the vaccines get here, only to be told that if you are vaccinated you still have to mask, distance, the works. At what point is enough, enough? People are tired of it.
Here is video of a liberal doctor on Tucker (yes, I know)... I think she describes it well... It's two minutes and worth watching til the end...
I'm not buying the double or triple masks. But a single mask definitely does work. Its not 100% effective, but it does reduce the risk by a lot. The vaccines are believed to basically just mask the symptoms. Meaning you can still get it and still transfer it, it is just a mild case if you do. SO being vaccinated when most of the country still isn't has nothing to do with wearing a mask or not at this point. The vaccine just gives you almost a zero chance of death or hospitalization if you do get it, that's all right now. While the vaccines are here, they are not available to everyone yet. That wont happen until May or June at the earliest. I do think some of the measures and closures have had little impact and were unnecessary, but keeping a distance and masking has undoubtedly help slow the spread.
Can someone explain to me why the US would not be able to return back to normal before this time next year? If everyone is vaccinated by summer what is stopping them from opening back up? I get that the variants are in question as is the length of time the vaccine works but are we seriously going to have restrictions in place just in case of a variant or length of the vaccine is not what we think it is? We are doing this to limit the hospitalizations and deaths and help the hospitals not become full to the point the health system would collapse.
Lets say everyone is vaccinated by August. It should be earlier but lets use that month. How is the government going to justify restrictions for another 6 months if the vaccine does what we hope it does? I see this being a huge issue for the Dems regarding the 2022 elections. People for the most part have been great regarding the rules. That goodwill will be long gone I think if we are still a year away from normalcy.
because 60% of republicans, which is about 30% of the population, have stated that they will not take any form of covid vaccine. this is only going to delay things opening back up.
you can not reach the level of immunity needed to safely open up when only 65% of people will even be willing to take a vaccine.
do not implicate all americans in the stupidity and ignorance of the minority.
also. i do not know where you are located, but people here refuse to even mask up. around here fewer and fewer people are being good about following the rules.
Is there real data that suggests the only people unwilling to take the vaccine are Republicans? If so, that is remarkable. There was a fairly significant anti-vaxxer movement prior to Covid (and still is) and I know that some of the most vocal advocates leading the charge are not Republicans. This would be an interesting data point to see.
I think what's more important than the percentage of the overall population that is unwilling to get vaccinated, is the percentage of the elderly and most at-risk population that is unwilling to get vaccinated. I do not have supporting data, but I am guessing that percentage is extremely low. If my assumption is correct, then not opening up because a relatively small percentage of the population (that is not high risk for serious illness or death) is unwilling to take a vaccine seems like a bad move. If that group gets sick and infects one another, that is a conscious decision that they made, full well knowing the risks. It is not putting the rest of the population at risk and/or putting a strain on hospitals. That has always been the goal, right?
My take has been, and remains, that when every American has been given the opportunity to be vaccinated, it is time to move forward towards normalcy. For those that have decided to forego the vaccine, that is on them.
I totally agree with this, especially the last part. When we get to the point that everyone has had the opportunity to get the vaccine, but some are holding out or outright refuse to get it, then any of their complaints about society moving forward or getting “left behind” should be completely ignored. At that point, I will have no sympathy for those that refuse the vaccine and get a bad case of the virus.
Personally I think everyone has a social obligation to get the vaccine once available, less be barred from certain activities that the vaccinated can enjoy, such as concerts or sporting events. Immigrants should also have to take the vaccine before being able to roam freely in the country. I have no problem shaming people that refuse to get vaccinated.
Yes. I had this discussion with my wife recently. Her parents are refusing to be vaccinated, so she wants to continue not seeing them and not having them see their grandchildren. I told her that was not very cool. Once a vaccination has been offered to everyone, we can no longer worry about killing grandma and grandpa. If they die, it was by suicide by ignorance.
Yep, and same could be said about cigarette smokers, but that’s a different subject of contention for me.
Kurt Vonnegut and his characters/proxies often quipped that they were committing suicide by cigarette.
Here in good ol’ CA, it’s about 50/50 when it comes to masks, at least in LA. The majority without seem to be younger. Every elderly person I encounter is masked.
It can’t be that difficult to just be safe, exercise consideration, protocols, etc...can it?
My opinion, which many here will tell you is complete shit and that's fine, is that it is not that difficult to do those things. Many people, myself included, have did those things for weeks and months only to realize those advising me (1) are not doing those things themselves and (b) those things are not doing anything to stop the virus. We were told life will be back to normal when the vaccines get here, only to be told that if you are vaccinated you still have to mask, distance, the works. At what point is enough, enough? People are tired of it.
Here is video of a liberal doctor on Tucker (yes, I know)... I think she describes it well... It's two minutes and worth watching til the end...
I'm not buying the double or triple masks. But a single mask definitely does work. Its not 100% effective, but it does reduce the risk by a lot. The vaccines are believed to basically just mask the symptoms. Meaning you can still get it and still transfer it, it is just a mild case if you do. SO being vaccinated when most of the country still isn't has nothing to do with wearing a mask or not at this point. The vaccine just gives you almost a zero chance of death or hospitalization if you do get it, that's all right now. While the vaccines are here, they are not available to everyone yet. That wont happen until May or June at the earliest. I do think some of the measures and closures have had little impact and were unnecessary, but keeping a distance and masking has undoubtedly help slow the spread.
I already explained to him the necessity of masking up and distancing even while vaccinated right now and he just ignored what I said. Thats how these convos go. Proven wrong or informed on the matter and silently move on to the next outrage.
I already explained to him the necessity of masking up and distancing even while vaccinated right now and he just ignored what I said. Thats how these convos go. Proven wrong or informed on the matter and silently move on to the next outrage.
That's where you are wrong. I understand. I really do. I am asking, at what point does it stop? When everyone available has the chance to get the vaccine? Biden is saying everyone that wants one will have one by summer, yet stated yesterday that we are a full year away from returning to normal. Forgive me for living through a year of all of these draconian measures and not being a little bit skeptical.
I totally agree with this, especially the last part. When we get to the point that everyone has had the opportunity to get the vaccine, but some are holding out or outright refuse to get it, then any of their complaints about society moving forward or getting “left behind” should be completely ignored. At that point, I will have no sympathy for those that refuse the vaccine and get a bad case of the virus.
Personally I think everyone has a social obligation to get the vaccine once available, less be barred from certain activities that the vaccinated can enjoy, such as concerts or sporting events. Immigrants should also have to take the vaccine before being able to roam freely in the country or gain citizenship. I have no problem shaming people that refuse to get vaccinated. “Anti-vaxxers” are a burden on society.
I think we are all agreeing with bbiggs, who made a well thought out post.
I disagree with this statement though. What does it matter if the vaccinated and non-vaccinated are in the same place together? The vaccinated should feel safe and those who are not know the dangers that the event they are attending. We never make people show proof of the flu vaccine before attending events, not sure why we should start now?
I was thinking about how hospitals and stuff would still have beds taken up and so on when I mentioned the societal burden.
I already explained to him the necessity of masking up and distancing even while vaccinated right now and he just ignored what I said. Thats how these convos go. Proven wrong or informed on the matter and silently move on to the next outrage.
That's where you are wrong. I understand. I really do. I am asking, at what point does it stop? When everyone available has the chance to get the vaccine? Biden is saying everyone that wants one will have one by summer, yet stated yesterday that we are a full year away from returning to normal. Forgive me for living through a year of all of these draconian measures and not being a little bit skeptical.
if wearing a mask and staying 6 feet away from someone and avoiding large gatherings are draconian to you, i would hate to see you living in the time of draco.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
I already explained to him the necessity of masking up and distancing even while vaccinated right now and he just ignored what I said. Thats how these convos go. Proven wrong or informed on the matter and silently move on to the next outrage.
That's where you are wrong. I understand. I really do. I am asking, at what point does it stop? When everyone available has the chance to get the vaccine? Biden is saying everyone that wants one will have one by summer, yet stated yesterday that we are a full year away from returning to normal. Forgive me for living through a year of all of these draconian measures and not being a little bit skeptical.
if wearing a mask and staying 6 feet away from someone and avoiding large gatherings are draconian to you, i would hate to see you living in the time of draco.
I await the Time of Hermione.
I SAW PEARL JAM
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,315
The Dems caused the pandemic to get rid of Trump is the dumbest claim out of all of the dumb Trump suckers' dumb claims.
What about the rest of the world, idiots?
The whole world did this to get rid of one obese 🤡?
Idiotic.
Remember Trump saying you won't hear anything about the virus after November 4th?
Fucking morons
They really are the dumbest people around.
"We are over wearing masks"
"People need to get out"
WTF does that have to do with keeping the number of people infected/hospitalized as low as possible until the vaccines are available to all?
Especially now that we have a date for that, as provided yesterday? If the vaccine will be made available to any adult in the US who wants it by the end of May...why not wait until the right number of days into June to allow for the vaccine to kick in to open the states back up?
At that point, anti-vaxxers are on their own. At least the hospitals will be ready to help them if they do get sick.
The whole world conspired to get fatboy out of office by making the pandemic seem worse than it was.
Fools!
Because 40% of the people in this country are characters in this movie. They're not even real people anymore.
Here is Halifax and F Me...
Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,652
I would never wish death upon a child. You would never say that to me IRL. I don't even wish death on the assholes who caused this issue to be so much worse because they refused to work to try and keep the virus down. That is awful. You make your troll jokes
There you are. I would never say that to you IRL? What does that even mean? If I said that to you, you would beat me up? Probably wouldn't happen, not because you couldn't, I am quite sure you could, but because you wouldn't get close enough to me being maskless.
And you keep throwing that blame on those "people who refused to work to try to keep the virus down"! Please, do not put any blame on the Governors and public health types who have advised us this whole time.
No - it is not due to threat of physical violence, you would not say that to me IRL because I'm not a piece of shit who wishes death on kids and you would know that if you knew me in real life. You wouldn't even say it and hide behind "it was a joke" because you would know it would not be taken as a joke.
I do certainly blame public officials as well as asshole people who try to do what they want to do vs. what is clearly for the better of society as a whole.
People seem to think that just because Gavin Newsome is a dick who doesn't practice what he preaches or the TX/MS/SC governors are morons who do not care about the health of the residents in their states, nor the states around them, that it is ok to act like a dumbass. It isn't.
(I know that your opinion is the opposite, and that Fox News and Twitter tells you all sorts of things you like to point to as evidence.)
Anyway - You joke about death and act in a bizarre fashion. Nothing about the behavior of myself, nor the other board member you reference, supports that I would hope for the death of children or their foolish parents from COVID-19.
No - it is not due to threat of physical violence, you would not say that to me IRL because I'm not a piece of shit who wishes death on kids and you would know that if you knew me in real life. You wouldn't even say it and hide behind "it was a joke" because you would know it would not be taken as a joke.
I do certainly blame public officials as well as asshole people who try to do what they want to do vs. what is clearly for the better of society as a whole.
People seem to think that just because Gavin Newsome is a dick who doesn't practice what he preaches or the TX/MS/SC governors are morons who do not care about the health of the residents in their states, nor the states around them, that it is ok to act like a dumbass. It isn't.
(I know that your opinion is the opposite, and that Fox News and Twitter tells you all sorts of things you like to point to as evidence.)
Anyway - You joke about death and act in a bizarre fashion. Nothing about the behavior of myself, nor the other board member you reference, supports that I would hope for the death of children or their foolish parents from COVID-19.
This will be my last post here. Honestly, this has taken up way to much of my time lately anyways.
First, to you and Halifax, I apologize and never meant to insinuate you wanted to kill kids, or asshole adults even. I am sure each of you are great people in real life and if myself and either of you ended up beside me at a show, we would probably have a good time. Please accept this apology as it is sincere.
It's very obvious we voted for different people last election and that we are "on different sides of the aisle", so to speak. Ultimately, since I have posted in this thread if you have been following along (and I know you have ), that has been one of my broader points. This has always been about the political science, nothing more. If anything, this virus should have brought every single one of us (Black, white, American, Mexican, Chinese, you name it) together for a common good, and ultimately for a brief period in March, I think it did. I was like most here, scared and unsure of what this whole thing was about, willing to do whatever necessary (I actually didn't even leave my house for weeks) to get rid of the virus only to realize we were chasing an unattainable goal.
Also, one of the points I hammer away at is the blatant hypocrisy of those advising us. We often talk in here about data and science and articles and links and so on and so on. My thing is this, all of these elected officials and public health folks have access to data we would only dream of having access too, yet they have gone against their own guidance, which tells me they know the real truth. From Pelosi maskless in the hair salon, to Newsom eating in an enclosed space (with reportedly medical officials BTW) after closing indoor dining to everyone else, to the MSNBC cameras shaming folks in Wisconsin who were maskless on Memorial Day weekend only to get told that half their crew was maskless, to so on and so on.
I get that myself and most in here will never see eye to eye on this issue, but trust me when I say I seek out info from all sources. Andy Slavitt, Dr. Eric Fiegl-Ding and others who are on the opposite side of the aisle as me. Like everything else in society, a year into this thing everyone knows the risks. Time to open everything back up and let people assume whatever risks they want to take.
I leave y'all with some lyrics from a band that's not bad. God Bless and God speed to all of you!
The north is to south what the clock is to time There's east and there's west and there's everywhere life I know I was born and I know that I'll die The in-between is mine I am mine
And the feeling, it gets left behind All the innocence lost at one time Significant behind the eyes There's no need to hide We're safe tonight
I already explained to him the necessity of masking up and distancing even while vaccinated right now and he just ignored what I said. Thats how these convos go. Proven wrong or informed on the matter and silently move on to the next outrage.
That's where you are wrong. I understand. I really do. I am asking, at what point does it stop? When everyone available has the chance to get the vaccine? Biden is saying everyone that wants one will have one by summer, yet stated yesterday that we are a full year away from returning to normal. Forgive me for living through a year of all of these draconian measures and not being a little bit skeptical.
I am not wrong with anything I said. I told you days ago why the medical experts say it is necessary to still mask up and socially distance after being vaccinated. You ignored the post and went on about something else.
I do not know when it stops. I hope sooner rather than later if the vaccine rollout goes as fast as I hope it does.
I already explained to him the necessity of masking up and distancing even while vaccinated right now and he just ignored what I said. Thats how these convos go. Proven wrong or informed on the matter and silently move on to the next outrage.
That's where you are wrong. I understand. I really do. I am asking, at what point does it stop? When everyone available has the chance to get the vaccine? Biden is saying everyone that wants one will have one by summer, yet stated yesterday that we are a full year away from returning to normal. Forgive me for living through a year of all of these draconian measures and not being a little bit skeptical.
You also said the vaccines are here and yet life is not back to normal. Vaccines don't matter until everyone has a chance to take it. Right now its still only essential workers, elderly and teachers in many places. Vaccines may not help with the spread, so until everyone has a chance to get one we still need to use other methods to prevent the spread. In the summer when anyone who wants one has one, I doubt we'll see a mass reopen over night like Texas did. It will probably happen in phases over a few weeks or couple months. Like not requiring masks when you can social distance, then increase capacity for indoors, etc. The reason being we may not know how completely effective the vaccine is for all the known (and possibly unknown) variants. So you reopen in stages and see if there are any spikes along the way. And if there is a spike it would be easier to contain. If the vaccines are still effective, I would imagine by the end of the summer, maybe a little sooner, life would be close to normal.
I only have the patience to debunk one conspiracy theory a day, so for today it's this one, since it's a particularly ridiculous yet dangerous one.
In the "study" this article describes, the authors compared two groups - those over 65 who died at some point in the weeks after getting a covid vaccine, and those over 65 who died of covid. The first number is larger than the second, so they concluded that more over-65s died of the vaccine than of covid.
It should be immediately obvious what is wrong with that conclusion - dying after you get a particular vaccine does not equate to dying because you got that particular vaccine. People die of lots of things, and people over 65 die at a higher rate of lots of things.
The correct comparators would be all-cause mortality in people over 65 who got the vaccine and those who didn't, matched for comparable health status, age, sex, etc.
Given their comment about "long term side effects", the authors are obviously setting this up to later claim that every death after vaccine is a vaccine-related death, no matter how long after.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I only have the patience to debunk one conspiracy theory a day, so for today it's this one, since it's a particularly ridiculous yet dangerous one.
In the "study" this article describes, the authors compared two groups - those over 65 who died at some point in the weeks after getting a covid vaccine, and those over 65 who died of covid. The first number is larger than the second, so they concluded that more over-65s died of the vaccine than of covid.
It should be immediately obvious what is wrong with that conclusion - dying after you get a particular vaccine does not equate to dying because you got that particular vaccine. People die of lots of things, and people over 65 die at a higher rate of lots of things.
The correct comparators would be all-cause mortality in people over 65 who got the vaccine and those who didn't, matched for comparable health status, age, sex, etc.
Given their comment about "long term side effects", the authors are obviously setting this up to later claim that every death after vaccine is a vaccine-related death, no matter how long after.
Noble of you, but you're probably wasting your time. People who seek out, read, and then share this type of disinformation seem to have their minds made up to remain ill informed.
I only have the patience to debunk one conspiracy theory a day, so for today it's this one, since it's a particularly ridiculous yet dangerous one.
In the "study" this article describes, the authors compared two groups - those over 65 who died at some point in the weeks after getting a covid vaccine, and those over 65 who died of covid. The first number is larger than the second, so they concluded that more over-65s died of the vaccine than of covid.
It should be immediately obvious what is wrong with that conclusion - dying after you get a particular vaccine does not equate to dying because you got that particular vaccine. People die of lots of things, and people over 65 die at a higher rate of lots of things.
The correct comparators would be all-cause mortality in people over 65 who got the vaccine and those who didn't, matched for comparable health status, age, sex, etc.
Given their comment about "long term side effects", the authors are obviously setting this up to later claim that every death after vaccine is a vaccine-related death, no matter how long after.
Noble of you, but you're probably wasting your time. People who seek out, read, and then share this type of disinformation seem to have their minds made up to remain ill informed.
That’s why I keep it to one a day, before breakfast.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Good morning. How should you think about the Johnson & Johnson vaccine? We explain.
A woman hugging her daughter after receiving the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in Columbus, Ohio, this week.Gaelen Morse/Reuters
‘Breathtaking’ results
It’s the latest case of vaccine alarmism.
Many Americans are worried that Johnson & Johnson’s Covid-19 vaccine is an inferior product that may not be worth getting. Gov. Doug Burgum of North Dakota recently told The Washington Post that he was now seeing not only “vaccine hesitancy” but also “the potential for brand hesitancy.”
The perception stems from the headline rates of effectiveness of the three vaccines: 72 percent for Johnson & Johnson, compared with 94 percent for Moderna and 95 percent for Pfizer. But those headline rates can be misleading in a few ways.
The most important measure — whether the vaccine prevents serious illness — shows the Johnson & Johnson vaccine to be equally effective as the other two. All work for nearly 100 percent of people. The picture is murkier for mild cases, but they are not particularly worrisome.
Today, I want to unpack the statistics about the three vaccines and explain why the current perception is a problem.
I’ll start with an anecdote that this newsletter has included once before: Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious-disease expert at Vanderbilt University, was recently talking with some colleagues about what they would tell a family member who could choose between getting the Johnson & Johnson tomorrow and one of the other vaccines in three weeks.
“All of us said, ‘Get the one tomorrow,’” as Schaffner recounted to my colleague Denise Grady. “The virus is bad.”
Mild Covid means victory
The headline effectiveness numbers — like 72 percent — describe a vaccine’s ability to prevent all infections from this coronavirus, known as SARS-Cov-2. But preventing all infections is less important than it may sound. The world is not going to eliminate SARS-Cov-2 anytime soon. Coronaviruses circulate all the time, causing the common cold and other manageable illnesses.
The trouble with this virus is its lethality. It has killed 15 times as many Americans as an average flu season. Turning Covid into something more like a mild flu or common cold means victory over the pandemic.
All three vaccines being used in the U.S. are accomplishing that goal. In the research trials, none of the people who received a vaccine died of Covid. And after the vaccines had taken full effect, none were hospitalized, either.
In the real world, the vaccines won’t achieve quite as stellar outcomes. Still, the results are excellent — and equally excellent across the three, as Dr. Cody Meissner of the Tufts School of Medicine said during a recent F.D.A. meeting.
Like running into the wind
But why doesn’t Johnson & Johnson appear to be as good at preventing mild illness?
There are a few possible answers. For one, Johnson & Johnson’s research trials seem to have had a greater degree of difficulty. They occurred later than Moderna’s or Pfizer’s — after one of the virus variants had spread more widely. The variant appears to cause a greater number of mild Covid cases among vaccinated people than the original virus.
Second, Johnson & Johnson is currently only one shot, while Moderna and Pfizer are two shots. That happened mostly because of how strong the Johnson & Johnson vaccine is. Initial testing showed it to deliver impressive levels of immunity after only one shot, while the others required a booster, as Dr. Robert Wachter, chair of the department of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco, explained to me.
The truth is that all of the vaccines seem to provide significant protection after a single shot. (Look at Britain, which is not rushing to give second shots and where cases and deaths continue to plummet.) Similarly, all three vaccines may benefit from a second shot.
I recognize that may make some people anxious about getting the single Johnson & Johnson shot, but it shouldn’t. If further data suggest that a second Johnson & Johnson shot would help, regulators can change their recommendation. Regardless, follow-up Covid shots may be normal in the future.
What’s the bottom line? A single Johnson & Johnson shot may indeed allow a somewhat larger number of mild Covid cases than two shots of Moderna or Pfizer. It’s hard to be sure. And it isn’t very important.
“The number that we should all truly care about is what are the chances I’m going to get this thing and get really sick or die,” Wachter said. After any of the three vaccines, he added, “There’s essentially no chance you will die of Covid, which is breathtaking.”
Gov. Kim Reynolds of Iowa received the Johnson & Johnson virus vaccine yesterday.Zach Boyden-Holmes/The Des Moines Register, via Associated Press
A final thought
Like most Americans, I have not yet been vaccinated. As I looked into the differences among the vaccines, I’ll confess that I had a self-involved thought: Maybe the overwrought concern about Johnson & Johnson means that its shots will go begging — and I will be able to get one sooner.
If so, I will say yes, without hesitation, and feel relieved.
In the meantime, I’d offer this advice to anybody ahead of me in line: If your turn comes and you are offered the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, accept what is rightfully yours. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the just as good.
In Iowa yesterday: Gov. Kim Reynolds and the state’s public health director, Kelly Garcia, received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine during a news conference. “I’m very happy to have received it,” the governor said, “and would just once again encourage Iowans, when you get the opportunity, please take advantage of it.”
THE LATEST NEWS
THE VIRUS
• The U.S. has administered more than two million vaccine shots per day over the past week.
• President Biden called decisions by the governors of Texas and Mississippi to lift mask mandates “Neanderthal thinking.”
• New York will allow live performances again next month, with masks and reduced capacity.
• A college president was worried about the effects of dorm isolation on students. So he moved in.
• The Indian drug company Bharat Biotech said that initial results from clinical trials showed its coronavirus vaccine to be safe and effective.
Comments
Life has to move on and if people aren't willing to get the vaccine, that's on them.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
And you keep throwing that blame on those "people who refused to work to try to keep the virus down"! Please, do not put any blame on the Governors and public health types who have advised us this whole time.
Here is video of a liberal doctor on Tucker (yes, I know)... I think she describes it well... It's two minutes and worth watching til the end...
I disagree with this statement though. What does it matter if the vaccinated and non-vaccinated are in the same place together? The vaccinated should feel safe and those who are not know the dangers that the event they are attending. We never make people show proof of the flu vaccine before attending events, not sure why we should start now?
The vaccines are believed to basically just mask the symptoms. Meaning you can still get it and still transfer it, it is just a mild case if you do. SO being vaccinated when most of the country still isn't has nothing to do with wearing a mask or not at this point. The vaccine just gives you almost a zero chance of death or hospitalization if you do get it, that's all right now. While the vaccines are here, they are not available to everyone yet. That wont happen until May or June at the earliest.
I do think some of the measures and closures have had little impact and were unnecessary, but keeping a distance and masking has undoubtedly help slow the spread.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
I do certainly blame public officials as well as asshole people who try to do what they want to do vs. what is clearly for the better of society as a whole.
People seem to think that just because Gavin Newsome is a dick who doesn't practice what he preaches or the TX/MS/SC governors are morons who do not care about the health of the residents in their states, nor the states around them, that it is ok to act like a dumbass.
It isn't.
(I know that your opinion is the opposite, and that Fox News and Twitter tells you all sorts of things you like to point to as evidence.)
Anyway - You joke about death and act in a bizarre fashion. Nothing about the behavior of myself, nor the other board member you reference, supports that I would hope for the death of children or their foolish parents from COVID-19.
First, to you and Halifax, I apologize and never meant to insinuate you wanted to kill kids, or asshole adults even. I am sure each of you are great people in real life and if myself and either of you ended up beside me at a show, we would probably have a good time. Please accept this apology as it is sincere.
It's very obvious we voted for different people last election and that we are "on different sides of the aisle", so to speak. Ultimately, since I have posted in this thread if you have been following along (and I know you have
Also, one of the points I hammer away at is the blatant hypocrisy of those advising us. We often talk in here about data and science and articles and links and so on and so on. My thing is this, all of these elected officials and public health folks have access to data we would only dream of having access too, yet they have gone against their own guidance, which tells me they know the real truth. From Pelosi maskless in the hair salon, to Newsom eating in an enclosed space (with reportedly medical officials BTW) after closing indoor dining to everyone else, to the MSNBC cameras shaming folks in Wisconsin who were maskless on Memorial Day weekend only to get told that half their crew was maskless, to so on and so on.
I get that myself and most in here will never see eye to eye on this issue, but trust me when I say I seek out info from all sources. Andy Slavitt, Dr. Eric Fiegl-Ding and others who are on the opposite side of the aisle as me. Like everything else in society, a year into this thing everyone knows the risks. Time to open everything back up and let people assume whatever risks they want to take.
I leave y'all with some lyrics from a band that's not bad. God Bless and God speed to all of you!
There's east and there's west and there's everywhere life
I know I was born and I know that I'll die
The in-between is mine
I am mine
All the innocence lost at one time
Significant behind the eyes
There's no need to hide
We're safe tonight
I do not know when it stops. I hope sooner rather than later if the vaccine rollout goes as fast as I hope it does.
In the summer when anyone who wants one has one, I doubt we'll see a mass reopen over night like Texas did. It will probably happen in phases over a few weeks or couple months. Like not requiring masks when you can social distance, then increase capacity for indoors, etc. The reason being we may not know how completely effective the vaccine is for all the known (and possibly unknown) variants. So you reopen in stages and see if there are any spikes along the way. And if there is a spike it would be easier to contain. If the vaccines are still effective, I would imagine by the end of the summer, maybe a little sooner, life would be close to normal.
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
http://www.surinenglish.com/national/202102/23/spain-galicia-opens-fines-20210223121539.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/declining-a-covid-19-vaccine-risks-penalties-in-some-countries-11613998997
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
https://gilad.online/writings/2021/2/27/hot-off-the-press-pfizer-ceo-albert-bourla-admits-israel-is-the-worlds-labnbsp
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I only have the patience to debunk one conspiracy theory a day, so for today it's this one, since it's a particularly ridiculous yet dangerous one.
In the "study" this article describes, the authors compared two groups - those over 65 who died at some point in the weeks after getting a covid vaccine, and those over 65 who died of covid. The first number is larger than the second, so they concluded that more over-65s died of the vaccine than of covid.
It should be immediately obvious what is wrong with that conclusion - dying after you get a particular vaccine does not equate to dying because you got that particular vaccine. People die of lots of things, and people over 65 die at a higher rate of lots of things.
The correct comparators would be all-cause mortality in people over 65 who got the vaccine and those who didn't, matched for comparable health status, age, sex, etc.
Given their comment about "long term side effects", the authors are obviously setting this up to later claim that every death after vaccine is a vaccine-related death, no matter how long after.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (the propagandist of childrenshealthdefense.org) is as shitty human being as they come. His family even says as much:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/08/robert-kennedy-jr-measles-vaccines-226798