How much would "the flu" kill if we didn't protect the elder with vaccins?
I don’t have hard data on exact percentages, but there is a significant percentage of Americans that do not get an annual flu shot (vaccine). I know a LOT of people that don’t get it. This isnt like the anti-vaxxers either. The flu shot just isn’t one of those vaccines that everyone gets.
How much would "the flu" kill if we didn't protect the elder with vaccins?
I don’t have hard data on exact percentages, but there is a significant percentage of Americans that do not get an annual flu shot (vaccine). I know a LOT of people that don’t get it. This isnt like the anti-vaxxers either. The flu shot just isn’t one of those vaccines that everyone gets.
No, not in Sweden either. Just the elder. That I know of. Except when the swine flu vaccin came (or, THE MEXICAN/CALIFORNIAN FLU)
And Giesecke says that the vaccin is a crapshoot, because you are guessing what flu version will be the problem every year.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
How much would "the flu" kill if we didn't protect the elder with vaccins?
I don’t have hard data on exact percentages, but there is a significant percentage of Americans that do not get an annual flu shot (vaccine). I know a LOT of people that don’t get it. This isnt like the anti-vaxxers either. The flu shot just isn’t one of those vaccines that everyone gets.
No, not in Sweden either. Just the elder. That I know of. Except when the swine flu vaccin came (or, THE MEXICAN/CALIFORNIAN FLU)
And Giesecke says that the vaccin is a crapshoot, because you are guessing what flu version will be the problem every year.
Exactly. I think this is why many people don't get the annual shot. It protects you from a handful of the flu strains, but not all of them. I've gotten the flu shot twice I think. Both times when my kids were born. Maybe one other time.
It may be hit-or-miss, but for people with compromised immunity (like me, and others here I'm sure), I'd rather err on the safety side and just get it for health reasons. Same goes for other vaccs like Shingles, Tetanus, etc.
My husband gets none of them.
(FYI, I could be wrong, but not just the elderly die of the flu or its ensuing complications.)
It may be hit-or-miss, but for people with compromised immunity (like me, and others here I'm sure), I'd rather err on the safety side and just get it for health reasons. Same goes for other vaccs like Shingles, Tetanus, etc.
My husband gets none of them.
(FYI, I could be wrong, but not just the elderly die of the flu or its ensuing complications.)
For sure. I don't fault anyone for getting the annual flu shot. It may not be 100%, but it is better than nothing. I wish I had gotten a shingles vaccine. I had the shingles and it was brutal. I was super young, by average shingles age standards, so never would have thought of it.
It may be hit-or-miss, but for people with compromised immunity (like me, and others here I'm sure), I'd rather err on the safety side and just get it for health reasons. Same goes for other vaccs like Shingles, Tetanus, etc.
My husband gets none of them.
(FYI, I could be wrong, but not just the elderly die of the flu or its ensuing complications.)
I would guess the same risk groups for Corona are also for flu complications (?)
But now I'm just killgissar (guyguessing)
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
It may be hit-or-miss, but for people with compromised immunity (like me, and others here I'm sure), I'd rather err on the safety side and just get it for health reasons. Same goes for other vaccs like Shingles, Tetanus, etc.
My husband gets none of them.
(FYI, I could be wrong, but not just the elderly die of the flu or its ensuing complications.)
For sure. I don't fault anyone for getting the annual flu shot. It may not be 100%, but it is better than nothing. I wish I had gotten a shingles vaccine. I had the shingles and it was brutal. I was super young, by average shingles age standards, so never would have thought of it.
Yeah, I plan on getting that shingles vaccine before long (Im 41).
I had a pretty weak case of chicken pox when I was a kid, and I guess that makes me more likely to get shingles later
It may be hit-or-miss, but for people with compromised immunity (like me, and others here I'm sure), I'd rather err on the safety side and just get it for health reasons. Same goes for other vaccs like Shingles, Tetanus, etc.
My husband gets none of them.
(FYI, I could be wrong, but not just the elderly die of the flu or its ensuing complications.)
For sure. I don't fault anyone for getting the annual flu shot. It may not be 100%, but it is better than nothing. I wish I had gotten a shingles vaccine. I had the shingles and it was brutal. I was super young, by average shingles age standards, so never would have thought of it.
Yeah, I plan on getting that shingles vaccine before long (Im 41).
I had a pretty weak case of chicken pox when I was a kid, and I guess that makes me more likely to get shingles later
Good call. I had a bad case of chicken pox as a kid and still got shingles when I was early-mid 30's. It felt like burning needles dragging through my skin all day long. Not fun.
Having schools closed or open doesn't have to factor into the difference.
How is COVID-19 spread in Sweden? I know in the U.S. and elsewhere around the world it is spread by being in proximity to others. Seems like school is a place where kids are in proximity to one another. Are they kept at school? If they go home at the end of the day are they able to turn off transmission so parents and grandparents aren't affected?
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Having schools closed or open doesn't have to factor into the difference.
How is COVID-19 spread in Sweden? I know in the U.S. and elsewhere around the world it is spread by being in proximity to others. Seems like school is a place where kids are in proximity to one another. Are they kept at school? If they go home at the end of the day are they able to turn off transmission so parents and grandparents aren't affected?
Yes. It's a switch. Don't know how you guys do it.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Andrew Cuomo has earned a lot of my respect with the way he’s handled this thing.
Imagine if we had Cuomo and Calif. Governor Gavin Newson as POTUS and VP (or visa versa), or leaders of that caliber in charge how much better things would be going now!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It may be hit-or-miss, but for people with compromised immunity (like me, and others here I'm sure), I'd rather err on the safety side and just get it for health reasons. Same goes for other vaccs like Shingles, Tetanus, etc.
My husband gets none of them.
(FYI, I could be wrong, but not just the elderly die of the flu or its ensuing complications.)
For sure. I don't fault anyone for getting the annual flu shot. It may not be 100%, but it is better than nothing. I wish I had gotten a shingles vaccine. I had the shingles and it was brutal. I was super young, by average shingles age standards, so never would have thought of it.
I'm sorry to hear you had to go through that!
My father had shingles and after seeing what he went through, I'm so glad I got the vaccine. I was sick as a dog the day after the vaccine, but that sure beats having shingles!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Having schools closed or open doesn't have to factor into the difference.
It made a big difference with the Spanish flu.
Do school closings help limit the spread of influenza? It’s a tough question to answer definitively, but at best they appear to have a moderate effect in reducing transmission, if—and this is important—the rate of illness from influenza in children is high compared with adults. One unusual feature of COVID-19 is that children seem to be largely spared from illness. This means that school closings would do less to reduce its spread than the precedents of 1918 might suggest.
Another feature of school closings must be taken into account, and it goes beyond the fact that many parents would need to stay at home to take care of their children. As the weather warms up, children will do what they always do. They will climb trees or chase basketballs into busy streets, and a few unlucky ones will end up in emergency rooms with serious injuries—or worse. Like medications, public-health interventions have unwanted side effects. While it is relatively easy to decide to close down a school system, it takes wisdom to understand the ramifications of a choice that will take millions of children out of relatively safe environments and put them into others, where the risks are unknown. Pity the public servant who has to make that call.
Once states close their schools, or theaters, or public gatherings, they will be forced to grapple with another problem. Public closings cannot last forever. They must, sooner or later, be lifted. And that’s when the story gets more complicated. “Interventions may be capable of significantly reducing the rate of disease transmission so long as they remain in effect,” a team of researchers wrote in 2007. But while the mortality rates declined during closures, once they were relaxed, the influenza virus found fertile new territory.
In fact, cities that reduced their rates of transmission with aggressive public-health measures experienced a large bounce and a second wave of infection. Public closings do not necessarily keep infections out of our communities. They may only delay their arrival. But that delay may itself be crucial. When people who are sick arrive within a short period, they can overwhelm hospitals and clinics—and quickly use up essential supplies. When that same number of sick people is spread out over a longer period of time, health-care providers are more likely to be able to cope with the demand.
So, I do not know how emperor Trump does it -- but in Sweden the PHA are doing two things
1) Making sure our healthcare system doesn't collaps -- the virus isn't going away, it's here to stay -- so what do we need to do to keep the curve flat and the health care system work? Today -- it is stressed but it is not collapsing. So why should we delay it?
2) Take a holistic approach to public health. What happens if schools are closed? What happens to the health care system when nurses and staff can't work anymore because they have to stay home with young children? What about kids coming from troubled homes where school is a safe place from abuse etc? !! HOLISTIC APPROACH TO PUBLIC HEALTH !! The time spent in school when young, has a huge part in shaping a young persons life and Sweden is cautious about disrupting this.
3) Has there been any huge outbreaks in schools or that can be traced back to schools/children? Swedish officials say -- no. No signs of this.
4) If something changes, at a specific school or in general other restrictions could apply. But the important thing is to flatten the curve to make health care cope -- and so far it does.
If saving lifes from covid19 and any other considerations and problems are a npn-factor -- then I take it New Jersey and the rest of the US will be completely locked down until a vaccine is out on the market? Schools will never open?
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It may be hit-or-miss, but for people with compromised immunity (like me, and others here I'm sure), I'd rather err on the safety side and just get it for health reasons. Same goes for other vaccs like Shingles, Tetanus, etc.
My husband gets none of them.
(FYI, I could be wrong, but not just the elderly die of the flu or its ensuing complications.)
For sure. I don't fault anyone for getting the annual flu shot. It may not be 100%, but it is better than nothing. I wish I had gotten a shingles vaccine. I had the shingles and it was brutal. I was super young, by average shingles age standards, so never would have thought of it.
Yeah, I plan on getting that shingles vaccine before long (Im 41).
I had a pretty weak case of chicken pox when I was a kid, and I guess that makes me more likely to get shingles later
For some reason where I live (NYC) there is a waiting list for the shingles shot. My brother got his in Maryland no problem - it is a series of two shots. Yet, the pharmacies here seem to have waiting lists. I have been on the waiting list for a few months. Once this pandemic is over, I am going to have check on that again.
Having schools closed or open doesn't have to factor into the difference.
It made a big difference with the Spanish flu.
Do school closings help limit the spread of influenza? It’s a tough question to answer definitively, but at best they appear to have a moderate effect in reducing transmission, if—and this is important—the rate of illness from influenza in children is high compared with adults. One unusual feature of COVID-19 is that children seem to be largely spared from illness. This means that school closings would do less to reduce its spread than the precedents of 1918 might suggest.
Another feature of school closings must be taken into account, and it goes beyond the fact that many parents would need to stay at home to take care of their children. As the weather warms up, children will do what they always do. They will climb trees or chase basketballs into busy streets, and a few unlucky ones will end up in emergency rooms with serious injuries—or worse. Like medications, public-health interventions have unwanted side effects. While it is relatively easy to decide to close down a school system, it takes wisdom to understand the ramifications of a choice that will take millions of children out of relatively safe environments and put them into others, where the risks are unknown. Pity the public servant who has to make that call.
Once states close their schools, or theaters, or public gatherings, they will be forced to grapple with another problem. Public closings cannot last forever. They must, sooner or later, be lifted. And that’s when the story gets more complicated. “Interventions may be capable of significantly reducing the rate of disease transmission so long as they remain in effect,” a team of researchers wrote in 2007. But while the mortality rates declined during closures, once they were relaxed, the influenza virus found fertile new territory.
In fact, cities that reduced their rates of transmission with aggressive public-health measures experienced a large bounce and a second wave of infection. Public closings do not necessarily keep infections out of our communities. They may only delay their arrival. But that delay may itself be crucial. When people who are sick arrive within a short period, they can overwhelm hospitals and clinics—and quickly use up essential supplies. When that same number of sick people is spread out over a longer period of time, health-care providers are more likely to be able to cope with the demand.
So, I do not know how emperor Trump does it -- but in Sweden the PHA are doing two things
1) Making sure our healthcare system doesn't collaps -- the virus isn't going away, it's here to stay -- so what do we need to do to keep the curve flat and the health care system work? Today -- it is stressed but it is not collapsing. So why should we delay it?
2) Take a holistic approach to public health. What happens if schools are closed? What happens to the health care system when nurses and staff can't work anymore because they have to stay home with young children? What about kids coming from troubled homes where school is a safe place from abuse etc? !! HOLISTIC APPROACH TO PUBLIC HEALTH !! The time spent in school when young, has a huge part in shaping a young persons life and Sweden is cautious about disrupting this.
3) Has there been any huge outbreaks in schools or that can be traced back to schools/children? Swedish officials say -- no. No signs of this.
4) If something changes, at a specific school or in general other restrictions could apply. But the important thing is to flatten the curve to make health care cope -- and so far it does.
If saving lifes from covid19 and any other considerations and problems are a npn-factor -- then I take it New Jersey and the rest of the US will be completely locked down until a vaccine is out on the market? Schools will never open?
Can children, with mild or no illness, transmit the Coronavirus to others?
Yes, they can.
“This is the big issue,” says Roberts. “Many think that children are at low risk and we don’t need to worry about them, and yes, that is true for children who don’t have chronic medical conditions like immunodeficiencies. What people are forgetting is that children are probably one of the main routes by which this infection is going to spread throughout the community.”
The coronavirus is transmitted from an infected person to a non-infected person through direct contact with the respiratory droplets of an infected person (generated through coughing and sneezing), and touching surfaces contaminated with the virus. This means that children infected with the coronavirus, with very mild or no illness, can transmit the infection to others, especially family members and elderly relatives.
“Children with very mild disease are probably going to be one of the major contributors to spreading the virus across the population,” says Roberts. “This is why schools closing are crucial to reducing the rate at which the pandemic spreads across the UK.”
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Comments
And Giesecke says that the vaccin is a crapshoot, because you are guessing what flu version will be the problem every year.
My husband gets none of them.
(FYI, I could be wrong, but not just the elderly die of the flu or its ensuing complications.)
Best wishes for you all!
But now I'm just killgissar (guyguessing)
I had a pretty weak case of chicken pox when I was a kid, and I guess that makes me more likely to get shingles later
- Johan Giesecke/Anders Tegnell
Countries are starting to open up their schools. Sweden model reigns supreme ones again.
BTW, lots of interesting graphs and visualizations here: https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data
Imagine if we had Cuomo and Calif. Governor Gavin Newson as POTUS and VP (or visa versa), or leaders of that caliber in charge how much better things would be going now!
Do school closings help limit the spread of influenza? It’s a tough question to answer definitively, but at best they appear to have a moderate effect in reducing transmission, if—and this is important—the rate of illness from influenza in children is high compared with adults. One unusual feature of COVID-19 is that children seem to be largely spared from illness. This means that school closings would do less to reduce its spread than the precedents of 1918 might suggest.
Another feature of school closings must be taken into account, and it goes beyond the fact that many parents would need to stay at home to take care of their children. As the weather warms up, children will do what they always do. They will climb trees or chase basketballs into busy streets, and a few unlucky ones will end up in emergency rooms with serious injuries—or worse. Like medications, public-health interventions have unwanted side effects. While it is relatively easy to decide to close down a school system, it takes wisdom to understand the ramifications of a choice that will take millions of children out of relatively safe environments and put them into others, where the risks are unknown. Pity the public servant who has to make that call.
Once states close their schools, or theaters, or public gatherings, they will be forced to grapple with another problem. Public closings cannot last forever. They must, sooner or later, be lifted. And that’s when the story gets more complicated. “Interventions may be capable of significantly reducing the rate of disease transmission so long as they remain in effect,” a team of researchers wrote in 2007. But while the mortality rates declined during closures, once they were relaxed, the influenza virus found fertile new territory.
In fact, cities that reduced their rates of transmission with aggressive public-health measures experienced a large bounce and a second wave of infection. Public closings do not necessarily keep infections out of our communities. They may only delay their arrival. But that delay may itself be crucial. When people who are sick arrive within a short period, they can overwhelm hospitals and clinics—and quickly use up essential supplies. When that same number of sick people is spread out over a longer period of time, health-care providers are more likely to be able to cope with the demand.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/complicated-truth-about-public-closings/607972/
So, I do not know how emperor Trump does it -- but in Sweden the PHA are doing two things
1) Making sure our healthcare system doesn't collaps -- the virus isn't going away, it's here to stay -- so what do we need to do to keep the curve flat and the health care system work? Today -- it is stressed but it is not collapsing. So why should we delay it?
2) Take a holistic approach to public health. What happens if schools are closed? What happens to the health care system when nurses and staff can't work anymore because they have to stay home with young children? What about kids coming from troubled homes where school is a safe place from abuse etc? !! HOLISTIC APPROACH TO PUBLIC HEALTH !! The time spent in school when young, has a huge part in shaping a young persons life and Sweden is cautious about disrupting this.
3) Has there been any huge outbreaks in schools or that can be traced back to schools/children? Swedish officials say -- no. No signs of this.
4) If something changes, at a specific school or in general other restrictions could apply. But the important thing is to flatten the curve to make health care cope -- and so far it does.
If saving lifes from covid19 and any other considerations and problems are a npn-factor -- then I take it New Jersey and the rest of the US will be completely locked down until a vaccine is out on the market? Schools will never open?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Can children, with mild or no illness, transmit the Coronavirus to others?
Yes, they can.
“This is the big issue,” says Roberts. “Many think that children are at low risk and we don’t need to worry about them, and yes, that is true for children who don’t have chronic medical conditions like immunodeficiencies. What people are forgetting is that children are probably one of the main routes by which this infection is going to spread throughout the community.”
The coronavirus is transmitted from an infected person to a non-infected person through direct contact with the respiratory droplets of an infected person (generated through coughing and sneezing), and touching surfaces contaminated with the virus. This means that children infected with the coronavirus, with very mild or no illness, can transmit the infection to others, especially family members and elderly relatives.
“Children with very mild disease are probably going to be one of the major contributors to spreading the virus across the population,” says Roberts. “This is why schools closing are crucial to reducing the rate at which the pandemic spreads across the UK.”
I don't think that's what he's saying. First off, there never has been a total lock down.