Accommodations for those without smartphones?

Lerxst1992

mookieblalock said:

Tremorman said:

mookieblalock said:

BF25394 said:

mookieblalock said:

I’m also pissed the new album isn’t offered on 8 track! Not everyone has a CD player or a turntable! 

Also, why can I only get 10c tickets through email when I have been a standing member for over 20 years? Not everyone has the internet or a computer!

Also, why doesn’t the band play in my city? Not everyone has a car or knows someone that wants to drive them, or likes to fly! 

Do you have any other inapt analogies?  Are there tens of millions of Americans with 8-track players?  Could anyone have a reasonable expectation of the album being available on 8-track when no album has been available in that format for over 30 years, contrary to how hard tickets were made available for this band's most recent shows less than two years ago?

Again, why does this bother you?  No one is asking anything from you.  No one is asking you to be inconvenienced in any way.  You are choosing to engage with this thread when it is of no concern to you, and why?  Just to be a dick?

This band arranged for hard tickets to be available to customers without smartphones on its last tour.  This band did that.  Other bands playing these same venues using the same ticket agency do that.  How is it unreasonable to inquire as to whether they intend to do the same thing that they just did?  And why does it so offend you that someone dares to ask?

Generally, businesses try to accommodate people who want to purchase the products they're selling, not mock them.

I could offer plenty more analogies if you would like. Just let me know.

My 86 year old grandmother has a smartphone. My hand to god this is the absolute truth. She doesn’t know how to use it all that well, but she does have one. Like it or not, the 8 track analogy is not far off from people not having smart phones. You are a dying breed. Also true is my analogy of the 10c at some point REQUIRING you to have an email account and a computer to purchase 10c tickets, which was a change to how things originally functioned. CHANGED!!!!!

Why does it bother me? It doesn’t at all really. I am just pointing out the absurdity in your thinking that just because you choose to remain in the dark ages, that somehow prohibits the band and the rest of the world from evolving, like they owe it to you to keep things the way they were in 1991. 

20% of cell phone owners aren’t smartphone owners. That is not an insignificant number. And the smartphone ticketing doesn’t actually prevent all scalping.  And you can get an email address using a library or work computer if you needed to, no ownership required.

You’re the only one talking about scalping here. Is this about cost of phones or preventing scalping? Let’s stay focused.

Thanks for the lesson on how to get an email address, I think My point of bringing up email (that the band changed from the snail mail ticketing system) flew right over your head. I know you non- smart phone owners probably assume getting an email address and accessing a computer is difficult for everyone else to understand, just like it is yourselves, but I assure you it is not!

Why do you state this is not about scalping? Does the band like seeing random numbers flash and change on everyone’s ticket? They are doing the random numbers for fun? The random number software is why a smartphone is needed imo.

“SafeTix tickets use a unique barcode that automatically refreshes every few seconds so they cannot be screenshot or counterfeited.”

pjl thinks I’m lamenting but actually I’m complementing, to get into a premium event for $98 is an accomplishment. Keeping ticket prices reasonable as we know has been their mission since the 90s. But now, there’s more.

Someone posted a link for a $25 phone with a $25 prepaid card. So that’s a 50% surcharge to the price of a ticket at least.

Someone else claims digital is better for the environment? Cobalt and lithium mining? Hazardous waste disposal? Vs the tiny old school  paper tickets that can be easily recycled?

mcrok

Do they check IDs for Safetix or just scan barcode?I would imagine checking IDs would be to cumbersome and defeat purpose.  Asking for a friend, thanks

mookieblalock

Lerxst1992 said:

mookieblalock said:

Tremorman said:

mookieblalock said:

BF25394 said:

mookieblalock said:

I’m also pissed the new album isn’t offered on 8 track! Not everyone has a CD player or a turntable! 

Also, why can I only get 10c tickets through email when I have been a standing member for over 20 years? Not everyone has the internet or a computer!

Also, why doesn’t the band play in my city? Not everyone has a car or knows someone that wants to drive them, or likes to fly! 

Do you have any other inapt analogies?  Are there tens of millions of Americans with 8-track players?  Could anyone have a reasonable expectation of the album being available on 8-track when no album has been available in that format for over 30 years, contrary to how hard tickets were made available for this band's most recent shows less than two years ago?

Again, why does this bother you?  No one is asking anything from you.  No one is asking you to be inconvenienced in any way.  You are choosing to engage with this thread when it is of no concern to you, and why?  Just to be a dick?

This band arranged for hard tickets to be available to customers without smartphones on its last tour.  This band did that.  Other bands playing these same venues using the same ticket agency do that.  How is it unreasonable to inquire as to whether they intend to do the same thing that they just did?  And why does it so offend you that someone dares to ask?

Generally, businesses try to accommodate people who want to purchase the products they're selling, not mock them.

I could offer plenty more analogies if you would like. Just let me know.

My 86 year old grandmother has a smartphone. My hand to god this is the absolute truth. She doesn’t know how to use it all that well, but she does have one. Like it or not, the 8 track analogy is not far off from people not having smart phones. You are a dying breed. Also true is my analogy of the 10c at some point REQUIRING you to have an email account and a computer to purchase 10c tickets, which was a change to how things originally functioned. CHANGED!!!!!

Why does it bother me? It doesn’t at all really. I am just pointing out the absurdity in your thinking that just because you choose to remain in the dark ages, that somehow prohibits the band and the rest of the world from evolving, like they owe it to you to keep things the way they were in 1991. 

20% of cell phone owners aren’t smartphone owners. That is not an insignificant number. And the smartphone ticketing doesn’t actually prevent all scalping.  And you can get an email address using a library or work computer if you needed to, no ownership required.

You’re the only one talking about scalping here. Is this about cost of phones or preventing scalping? Let’s stay focused.

Thanks for the lesson on how to get an email address, I think My point of bringing up email (that the band changed from the snail mail ticketing system) flew right over your head. I know you non- smart phone owners probably assume getting an email address and accessing a computer is difficult for everyone else to understand, just like it is yourselves, but I assure you it is not!

Why do you state this is not about scalping? 

Um, because the conversation was about whether the 10c needed to accommodate someone that didn’t have a smart phone. That’s it. It’s hard for some people to stay on topic. 

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan

The whole reason Ticketmaster and now Pearl Jam are implementing SafeTix is to prevent scalping.  The OP is making all kinds of suggestions like being able to print tickets for $5.00 that defeat the whole purpose of the SafeTix system which is to prevent scalpers from obtaining all the seats.  Pearl Jam is trying to do this on our behalf, not theirs.  I think they took the path that will affect the least amount of people here.  Screw a handful of people who still don't have smart phones vs allowing the scalpers to buy up and resell the tickets for a profit and driving the cost to attend the event for everyone who didn't hit the lottery.  Seems like they made the right choice to me.

BF25394

Sharon_Hearts_PJ said:

BF25394 said:

(sigh) I said I'd pay for the option to print the ticket.  Read the thread.  The venues already print tickets for other events.  They do this every day.  It doesn't require new technology.  It doesn't require new people to be hired.  The cost is de minimis.  As previously mentioned, I recently paid $5 to print hard tickets for Wilco shows.  I was fine with that, even though I know it doesn't cost the ticketing agency $5 to print and mail the tickets.  There were no complaints that I had to pay more because I don't have a smartphone, even as you falsely assume that such complaints would naturally follow.

Again, why does this matter to you?  It does not affect you.  Why are so many of you so eager to see other fans excluded when they could be easily accommodated-- JUST LIKE WAS DONE FOR THE LAST SET OF SHOWS?  No one is trying to take your smartphone or your ability to use it as a ticket away from you.

Correct, I did miss your mentions of being willing to pay. We are up to 5 pages now, so please forgive me.

You are also correct that it does not matter to me directly, or affect me in any way, as I've had a smart phone since 2007. But what is the point of the forum if not to engage in discourse, and possibly shed light on subjects in contexts not otherwise considered by those posing the questions (or, as it were in some cases, outright complaining)?

Should this thread only consist of folks who don't have smartphones, commiserating and congratulating each other for not giving in to societal norms?

I started the thread.  The thread wasn't even supposed to be a thread.  It was a question posed to the Ten Club.  A bunch of people responded with posts that were not answers to the question, some of whom offered well-intentioned advice, and others who chimed in to say variations on "get a smartphone."  Did they think that was a helpful or insightful piece of advice?

You (and others) keep reading into things that aren't there.  Who is congratulating anyone?  How many times do I have to say that I am happy that you are satisfied with your smartphone and wish you and your smartphone decades of happiness?  I'm happy with my choice not to have a smartphone, but I am not trying to tell anyone else how to live her life.  I'm just trying to find out if they're going to make the same arrangement that they did last tour for people without smartphones who, again, are real people who have supported this band for decades, not abstractions who offend you because they have a different relationship to this particular bit of technology than you do.

With respect to the scalping aspect mentioned by others, we're talking about people with Ten Club memberships showing up at the box office on the day of the show with ID to prove who they are and pick up a ticket.  How would scalpers snap up "all the tickets" as one of the replies here said?  Did this happen in 2018 for the handful of people who made arrangements to pick up tickets at will call?

Seriously, though, go back to the beginning of the thread.  Look at the tone and substance of my original few posts.  Then look at the tone of the responses, especially mookieblalock's.  He chimed in immediately with a snide and utterly unhelpful comment, and then just continued to get more and more rude.  And look at the tone of your first post, with its reference to "insane bitching."

BF25394

Pretty much everyone?  That's another false statement.  Some people have agreed with you.  Several others haven't.  And you can say it's unreasonable until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't actually make it unreasonable for me to ask the Ten Club if they plan to allow for a simple accommodation THAT IS THE SAME THING THEY DID FOR THE LAST SHOWS.  How on Earth is it unreasonable to ask for, or even to expect, that accommodation?

BF25394

patkelly12 said:

Paper tickets are tomorrow’s plastic straws.

Well, I don't plan on throwing my tickets in the ocean after the show, I can assure you.  I figured I'd put them in the scrapbook with the tickets to the other 60 Pearl Jam shows I've seen.

And then throw the whole scrapbook in the ocean.  I hate turtles.  One killed my grandmother.  It happened earlier today.  She was 86 years old.  Now she'll never Facebook again...

pbultimate

Have you emailed them and asked?  

BF25394

pbultimate said:

Have you emailed them and asked?  

Yes, twice now.  The first email was noted on the first page of the thread.  I also tried calling them.

mookieblalock

BF25394 said:

Pretty much everyone?  That's another false statement.  Some people have agreed with you.  Several others haven't.  And you can say it's unreasonable until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't actually make it unreasonable for me to ask the Ten Club if they plan to allow for a simple accommodation THAT IS THE SAME THING THEY DID FOR THE LAST SHOWS.  How on Earth is it unreasonable to ask for, or even to expect, that accommodation?

It’s unreasonable because you think you’re entitled to special treatment. Adapt or be left behind. This isn’t 1991. My advice is pursue hard tickets through the Ticketmaster sale. If that doesn’t work out, I’m sure someone from the board will be happy to send you a copy of your desired show on VHS.

shecky

Is Pearl Jam, LLC owned by Apple now?

Lostpawn

On topic: yeah, it sucks to be left out of a show because scalper a-holes have created a need for a technology-based solution.  But, due to the SafeTix policy, I seriously doubt there will be a "will-call" option.  That would defeat the purpose, as people could then just pick up their will-call and turn around and scalp the tickets.  That said, I know that TicketMaster has been responsive to emails - I would email them (not 10 Club) and ask.

On a tangent: sometimes in crowded venues cell service gets really sketchy.  I hope this doesn't cause major problems at these shows, with everyone at the same time trying to refresh their tickets, congesting the cell towers (or the TM site!), and creating mayhem.  I could imagine a scenario where near riots could ensue.  Let's hope everyone has their technology ready to go for this.

Lerxst1992

mookieblalock said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mookieblalock said:

Tremorman said:

mookieblalock said:

BF25394 said:

mookieblalock said:

I’m also pissed the new album isn’t offered on 8 track! Not everyone has a CD player or a turntable! 

Also, why can I only get 10c tickets through email when I have been a standing member for over 20 years? Not everyone has the internet or a computer!

Also, why doesn’t the band play in my city? Not everyone has a car or knows someone that wants to drive them, or likes to fly! 

Do you have any other inapt analogies?  Are there tens of millions of Americans with 8-track players?  Could anyone have a reasonable expectation of the album being available on 8-track when no album has been available in that format for over 30 years, contrary to how hard tickets were made available for this band's most recent shows less than two years ago?

Again, why does this bother you?  No one is asking anything from you.  No one is asking you to be inconvenienced in any way.  You are choosing to engage with this thread when it is of no concern to you, and why?  Just to be a dick?

This band arranged for hard tickets to be available to customers without smartphones on its last tour.  This band did that.  Other bands playing these same venues using the same ticket agency do that.  How is it unreasonable to inquire as to whether they intend to do the same thing that they just did?  And why does it so offend you that someone dares to ask?

Generally, businesses try to accommodate people who want to purchase the products they're selling, not mock them.

I could offer plenty more analogies if you would like. Just let me know.

My 86 year old grandmother has a smartphone. My hand to god this is the absolute truth. She doesn’t know how to use it all that well, but she does have one. Like it or not, the 8 track analogy is not far off from people not having smart phones. You are a dying breed. Also true is my analogy of the 10c at some point REQUIRING you to have an email account and a computer to purchase 10c tickets, which was a change to how things originally functioned. CHANGED!!!!!

Why does it bother me? It doesn’t at all really. I am just pointing out the absurdity in your thinking that just because you choose to remain in the dark ages, that somehow prohibits the band and the rest of the world from evolving, like they owe it to you to keep things the way they were in 1991. 

20% of cell phone owners aren’t smartphone owners. That is not an insignificant number. And the smartphone ticketing doesn’t actually prevent all scalping.  And you can get an email address using a library or work computer if you needed to, no ownership required.

You’re the only one talking about scalping here. Is this about cost of phones or preventing scalping? Let’s stay focused.

Thanks for the lesson on how to get an email address, I think My point of bringing up email (that the band changed from the snail mail ticketing system) flew right over your head. I know you non- smart phone owners probably assume getting an email address and accessing a computer is difficult for everyone else to understand, just like it is yourselves, but I assure you it is not!

Why do you state this is not about scalping? 

Um, because the conversation was about whether the 10c needed to accommodate someone that didn’t have a smart phone. That’s it. It’s hard for some people to stay on topic. 

The reason to *require* a smartphone is to combat scalping. Sounds on topic to me but what the heck do I know.

Lerxst1992

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

The whole reason Ticketmaster and now Pearl Jam are implementing SafeTix is to prevent scalping.  The OP is making all kinds of suggestions like being able to print tickets for $5.00 that defeat the whole purpose of the SafeTix system which is to prevent scalpers from obtaining all the seats.  Pearl Jam is trying to do this on our behalf, not theirs.  I think they took the path that will affect the least amount of people here.  Screw a handful of people who still don't have smart phones vs allowing the scalpers to buy up and resell the tickets for a profit and driving the cost to attend the event for everyone who didn't hit the lottery.  Seems like they made the right choice to me.

How is this going to look next week when stub hub is flooded with expensive tickets? 

A simple solution would be your "ticket" is at will call and you dont get a ticket. You get a wristband when you show ID that is void if you take it off.

They could even do a random ID check in the arena before show time at the exact seat locations of will call guests. Take a sample of 5 seats per show. Takes 5 minutes.

Word will get out if you mess with your wristband you lose seniority. 

Edit,
Or simpler, straight off the will call line you are directed to go straight into the arena with no other option. 

Lerxst1992

mookieblalock said:

BF25394 said:

Pretty much everyone?  That's another false statement.  Some people have agreed with you.  Several others haven't.  And you can say it's unreasonable until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't actually make it unreasonable for me to ask the Ten Club if they plan to allow for a simple accommodation THAT IS THE SAME THING THEY DID FOR THE LAST SHOWS.  How on Earth is it unreasonable to ask for, or even to expect, that accommodation?

It’s unreasonable because you think you’re entitled to special treatment. Adapt or be left behind. This isn’t 1991. My advice is pursue hard tickets through the Ticketmaster sale. If that doesn’t work out, I’m sure someone from the board will be happy to send you a copy of your desired show on VHS.

It's not special treatment.

Its access to a public show taking place in a venue funded by taxpayer dollars.

Geez, man.

Lerxst1992

Lostpawn said:

On topic: yeah, it sucks to be left out of a show because scalper a-holes have created a need for a technology-based solution.  But, due to the SafeTix policy, I seriously doubt there will be a "will-call" option.  That would defeat the purpose, as people could then just pick up their will-call and turn around and scalp the tickets.  That said, I know that TicketMaster has been responsive to emails - I would email them (not 10 Club) and ask.

On a tangent: sometimes in crowded venues cell service gets really sketchy.  I hope this doesn't cause major problems at these shows, with everyone at the same time trying to refresh their tickets, congesting the cell towers (or the TM site!), and creating mayhem.  I could imagine a scenario where near riots could ensue.  Let's hope everyone has their technology ready to go for this.

Create a will call line that's only exit is to enter the arena.

Tremorman

Lerxst1992 said:

Lostpawn said:

On topic: yeah, it sucks to be left out of a show because scalper a-holes have created a need for a technology-based solution.  But, due to the SafeTix policy, I seriously doubt there will be a "will-call" option.  That would defeat the purpose, as people could then just pick up their will-call and turn around and scalp the tickets.  That said, I know that TicketMaster has been responsive to emails - I would email them (not 10 Club) and ask.

On a tangent: sometimes in crowded venues cell service gets really sketchy.  I hope this doesn't cause major problems at these shows, with everyone at the same time trying to refresh their tickets, congesting the cell towers (or the TM site!), and creating mayhem.  I could imagine a scenario where near riots could ensue.  Let's hope everyone has their technology ready to go for this.

Create a will call line that's only exit is to enter the arena.

That's a good idea.  I won the Hamilton in NYC lottery last year and got second row seats.  The tickets were only availabe right before show time at the ticket window, The only way to proceed from the window was to walk right into the venue where my ticket was scanned right away.  It was a great system.  Those tickets would have been $1K- plus on StubHub.

mookieblalock

Lerxst1992 said:

mookieblalock said:

BF25394 said:

Pretty much everyone?  That's another false statement.  Some people have agreed with you.  Several others haven't.  And you can say it's unreasonable until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't actually make it unreasonable for me to ask the Ten Club if they plan to allow for a simple accommodation THAT IS THE SAME THING THEY DID FOR THE LAST SHOWS.  How on Earth is it unreasonable to ask for, or even to expect, that accommodation?

It’s unreasonable because you think you’re entitled to special treatment. Adapt or be left behind. This isn’t 1991. My advice is pursue hard tickets through the Ticketmaster sale. If that doesn’t work out, I’m sure someone from the board will be happy to send you a copy of your desired show on VHS.

It's not special treatment.

Its access to a public show taking place in a venue funded by taxpayer dollars.

Geez, man.

It’s access to a private show, actually. It is special treatment. I guess I should have access to the Super Bowl this year since it’s being played at a tax funded stadium. Get real man. 

BF25394

mookieblalock said:

BF25394 said:

Pretty much everyone?  That's another false statement.  Some people have agreed with you.  Several others haven't.  And you can say it's unreasonable until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't actually make it unreasonable for me to ask the Ten Club if they plan to allow for a simple accommodation THAT IS THE SAME THING THEY DID FOR THE LAST SHOWS.  How on Earth is it unreasonable to ask for, or even to expect, that accommodation?

It’s unreasonable because you think you’re entitled to special treatment. Adapt or be left behind. This isn’t 1991. My advice is pursue hard tickets through the Ticketmaster sale. If that doesn’t work out, I’m sure someone from the board will be happy to send you a copy of your desired show on VHS.

When have I claimed to be entitled to this?  I think it's terrible customer service to exclude loyal fans who want to pay for the product you're selling, but I have never even implied that I'm entitled to have a ticket printed.  I would like for them to provide that option, just like they did last time.  Arguably, there is a reasonable expectation that they would do that since they did it last time and since virtually every other event at these same venues does it, but that's an expectation, not an entitlement.  If they don't provide that option, I won't buy tickets.  It will have a minimal effect on my overall happiness.

Every time you repeat "adapt or be left behind" like a parrot, I keep wondering if you and some of the other posters here ("it's EVOLUTION, baby") understand that "Do The Evolution" was an anti-technology song.  It's about man's hubris for thinking that he stands astride the world because of his power and technology, trampling over "those ignorant Indians" and demanding to be admired for his advances.  It predicts that, in the end, this relentless technological advance and man's attitude of superiority because of it will lead to everything "go[ing] to fire."  That's what your hero, Mr. Viva La Vinyl and Mr. Backspacer, thinks about modern technology.  So bear that in mind as you mock people who don't wish to partake of this particular bit of technology.  And thanks again for another inapt analogy about VHS tapes, although I note the irony that if Pearl Jam did put out a VHS tape today there would be thousands of people in this fan club desperate to obtain it for their collections even if they have nowhere to play it.

Also bear in mind that no technology is permanent.  Vinyl was dominant, then obsolete, then resurgent.  CDs, DVDs, Blu-rays-- every medium has had its day.  Everyone had to be on Facebook or be left out of the conversation; now it's "for olds," as someone said, and  Instagram is the new shiny object.  I was never on Facebook.  I got mocked for it just like you mock me for not having a smartphone.  Now some of the same people who mocked me have deleted Facebook.  (Meanwhile, all along, I have owned its stock and made a killing.  I retired at age 39 by investing in technology I don't use-- FB, Apple, Tesla-- so I know a thing or two about adapting, trust me.  No smartphone required for any of it.) 

Someone, perhaps you, referred to me as a "dying breed" for not having a smartphone.  It's not a straight line up to 100 percent adoption.  There was never a point at which 100 percent of homes had televisions, for example.  A person who chose not to have a television didn't have much ground to complain about lack of access to television shows because that was the purpose of the device and of the technology.  But the primary purpose of a smartphone is for communication.  The secondary purpose is for mobile Internet access.  Way down the list of smartphone functions is "ticket repository."  So it's not unreasonable, especially as we are nowhere near universal implementation of "mobile-only tickets"-- the vast majority of events in venues large and small have non-mobile ticket options-- for someone to assume that a smartphone should not be necessary to attend an event.

In the meantime, just wait.  The generation that comes up next will recoil against this tech and its invasiveness.  They'll rediscover privacy.  (Maybe they'll even chant about it being priceless to them.)  They'll wonder what is wrong with the drones in the generation ahead of them who walk around with their heads buried in their phones, barely interacting with the world around them.  They'll come up with their own version of "OK Boomer" for Millennials and Gen Z.  They'll be amazed when they learn that, for the first time in all the years of polling the issue, 18-to-22-year-olds are the demographic that feels loneliest.  It used to be senior citizens, but now it's 18-to-22-year-olds because their phones are robbing them of human connection.  There is a course now being taught at USC-- suggested by students and run by students-- about friendship, with a focus on how to make friends.  This was never an issue before.  People have never been more connected, and yet they have never felt more isolated.  So don't assume that the smartphone is now and ever shall be, world without end amen.  It's evolution, baby.

100 Pacer

10C will always accommodate but the problem is the abuse. Rob will probably work the 10C will call window again in between duties and he’s smart people.