So I do care a great deal about the environment. I'm not convinced that climate change is mostly man-made considering the billions and billions of years that the planet has been here. ( call me a denier fine) For the sake of argument let's just say it is all man made okay. Some countries go entirely unregulated, they are the ones that should be hammered with Hyper regulation and massive penalties for doing absolutely nothing to control emissions. The United States regulatory job killing burden at one time was 2 trillion dollars, that's larger than some countries entire economy. Most successful industrialized nations do everything they can to keep up with the latest technology to stay up-to-date on the latest clean Technologies and improve their facilities as often as they can. Vehicles are much more efficient now than they were 30 years ago. I don't know if (electric) is the answer because you need to charge the battery. It takes electricity to charge the battery and you've got to produce the electricity somewhere. I'm all for Batteries if they can make them strong enough to do the job. But right now how are you going to move an 80,000 lb truck like the one I drive with battery, wind or solar power? How are you going to move a train that way? They have nuclear powered aircraft carriers that can go 20+ years without needing to dock anywhere. So nuclear power should be looked into a lot more. Planes Trains and Automobiles have all improved greatly in the last 30 years imagine another 30 more years of Technology and improvements I'm 42 now, I just remember when I was a kid, riding in the seat next to my mom, when a dump truck, or semi use to take off from a stop light, especially in those low gears, they would just billow out black smoke, buuuurp, shift buuuuuuuuurp, shift, buuuuuuuuuuurp that black shit would hang in the air, around the trees and stink, and slowly sink downward or blow away on the Wind. Nowadays look around you trucks are burning pretty clean. cleaner-burning diesel engines and emission control devices on the trucks called DEF ( diesel exhaust fluid) the exhaust system has screens in them that catche a lot of s*** and the DEF system periodically incinerates the crud off the screen while you're driving. And what I see coming out of smoke stacks nowadays is transparent emissions not opaque like they used to be. And that's a good thing. right? Factories aren't belching out black smoke anymore. If they have any smoke stacks nowadays it's usually Steam not black opaque smoke shit coming out. We now have a state-of-the-art water filtration facilities. Water that comes out of a current Metropolitan sewage district is cleaner than the water that comes out of the ground. It's amazing. But I hear people saying people are dying left and right. And we've only got 13 years left befoure WHAT?? Who is driving all the panic ? where is this Panic coming from???? I believe that is a lie to force government control of the masses. I don't hear much about the hole in the ozone anymore, I haven't heard anything about bird flu lately there's always something causing panic panic panic And we're all going to DIE if we don't act now !!! It is Now or never dammit!! And you're all guilty as hell!! Shame on us all four living shame on us for breathing shame on us eating and excreting and buying things like air conditioners and heaters. Furnaces and air conditioners keep millions and millions of people alive. have you ever noticed this? We are guilty for using the things that Keep Us Alive?? The we are all guilty, and we are all doomed in 13 years is a gargantuan lie. The people that promote all the guilt and fear don't believe their lies or they wouldn't be buying 15 million dollar ocean front property Estates. We should always be persuing cleaner water air & less emissions Etc. That's our duty. But I don't agree with the panic! When most industrialized nations are working towards cleaning it up. Not ignoring the problem but taking significant portions of profits and investing it back into cleaner technology... Why all the panic? Because a few chunks of falling ice got caught on camera The BBC NIGHTLY NEWS cast runs stories and videos of falling ice every night. . We're all doomed !!!They seek to create panic and chaos.. They've done a great job. I feel really bad for Greta Thunberg, I do.. She's a nice girl & clearly an angry girl. Some entity (The Left) has convinced her that we're all going to die very soon. That's a lie. And they chose a 16 year old girl to be their spokesperson. I feel bad for her because She is being used like a puppet by the Left to advance what I believe is a false sense of panic to force world government control on every man woman and child, And everything in between. The Global Left has convinced many good-hearted liberals that conservatives are the enemy. That's another huge lie by the Globalist Left. The Global Left creates all the divisive labels, and intolerance, not Liberals.
It's hard to describe but it's worth the effort.
Liberals and conservatives throughout the generations have always respectfully agreed to disagree, policy and politics, but at the end of the day over the weekend the two sides have always been able to put politics aside and go play golf. So (THE LEFT is an entity & apparatus) that HATES IT, when a Liberal and a Conservative go out together over the weekend, put their differences aside and have a good time. ( attend a ball game together, play golf together, attend the concert together Etc) I am convinced The left is anti togetherness. They want us to hate each other and dump beer down the neck of the person next to you with whom you differ with at the ballgame. I believe that is what's going on. The Left wants the two sides to hate each other permanently. Drive a wedge right down the middle. Even between family members, make the sister hate the brother. Make the daughter hate her father. That's what the Left wants. Conservatives and liberals can get along just fine. The Left seeks to drive the wedge between and destroy us all. That is the bottom line and that takes a lot of time to ponder. I'm telling you again my fellow liberal friends, conservatives are not by default your enemy. The LEFT is.
Post edited by RYME on
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,288
So what is the remedy then to man-made climate change? Taxing people out of their bonnets? Massive regulatory burden that all gets passed down to Consumers. Kill jobs? What is the solution? And how long before we see notable improvements if we did everything the experts say? How long would it take for the sea levels to go down and the ice caps to restore themselves? What then would be the next crises that we all have to pay for?
Suggestions (these are to lessen the impact of global warning and slow it down. Better is always better than worse):
Have fewer kids/ adopt.
Plant trees. Millions upon millions of trees.
Drive less. Walk, car pool, ride share, take public transit more.
Reduce consumption.
When we do consume, buy the most durable goods. That means less waste and, in the long run, saving money.
Eat less meat, more vegetarian and vegan.
Adjust thermostats to reduce energy usage. (More clothes in the winter, less or none in the summer.)
Keep tires inflated properly.
Use less hot water.
Avoid products that use a lot of packaging.
Vote for environmentally aware and concerned candidates.
Improve education and teach critical thinking.
If we all did these common sense things, the world would be a lot better for us and all of life.
I have my own kids, but other than that I do all of the above that you suggest. We eat a Mediterranean diet pretty much. We don't eat fast food we don't drink soda. We have a large garden we grow most of our vegetables, we can a lot of it so eat it year round. ( tomatoes, potatoes, green and red peppers, asparagus, sweet corn, pumpkins, cucumbers, we have five apple trees and a patch of blackberries, it's one hell of a lot of work but it's really good. We have a few gutters that empty water off the roof into 55 gallon barrels that I use to water the garden when it gets dry.( don't really have to do that we have really good well water.) I have a gutter running off the horses Barn into there 75 gallon water tub. Often times I don't have to fill it up myself. And if it overflows it overflows & it pretty much is self cleaning its great. And I find that my garden likes rain water better than cold well water from the ground. My dad and I have a tree farm in northern Wisconsin 55 Acres. Surrounded by thousands of Acres of forest. 10 Acres of it is Cedar, Balsam, Tamarac, and a bunch of other plants I have no name for swamp!! 20 acres of it Hardwoods black cherry, maple, primarily and whatever else grows there, white birch Aspen ect. There was 25 Acres that was just a grassy field, so we planted 17,000 Norway Pines (red pine) with a pickup truck you attach a wedge behind it that makes a Groove in the soil, groove, the driver drives slow the other guy puts a tiny Tree in every few feet and the back of the thing pinches the soil around the roots when it comes by. So I think we're doing pretty good in that regard. There's no mass transit where I live it's pretty is pretty rural. So we have a couple horses, I first taught my wife how to ride, then my kids too. That's our fun when the weather is nice. We hunt we fish we ride bikes we Garden we split all our own firewood. We only cut up dead trees we don't ever cut down any live green trees unless they look like they're going to fall on someone's house in a storm. All those other things you mentioned I agree with no problem there! We try to do our part without being told what to do.
That all sounds great, RYME. We have a fireplace but don't use it because as much as it creates a "mood environment", it does little to nothing in terms of heating unless you stick your butt right up tot the flames but who want burnt butt checks, right? I've thought about putting a wood burning insert in the fireplace, but haven't out of stubbornness because there is already too much wood smoke in our neighborhood.
When I live in Sequim (pronounced, "squim"), Washington, my brother told me that the old timers there used to say, "If you can see your neighbors smoke, you're living too close." If I could go back in time 100 years I wood enjoy heat by wood fire!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
While I appreciate this person's passion, I'm afraid she will end confined to meme culture. Cuz 'Meriica.
Only for people with meme mentality will confine themselves thus. She and other intelligent people like her will carry on with the good work that needs to be done and they will get better at it. I'd put money on that.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
So what is the remedy then to man-made climate change? Taxing people out of their bonnets? Massive regulatory burden that all gets passed down to Consumers. Kill jobs? What is the solution? And how long before we see notable improvements if we did everything the experts say? How long would it take for the sea levels to go down and the ice caps to restore themselves? What then would be the next crises that we all have to pay for?
Suggestions (these are to lessen the impact of global warning and slow it down. Better is always better than worse):
Have fewer kids/ adopt.
Plant trees. Millions upon millions of trees.
Drive less. Walk, car pool, ride share, take public transit more.
Reduce consumption.
When we do consume, buy the most durable goods. That means less waste and, in the long run, saving money.
Eat less meat, more vegetarian and vegan.
Adjust thermostats to reduce energy usage. (More clothes in the winter, less or none in the summer.)
Keep tires inflated properly.
Use less hot water.
Avoid products that use a lot of packaging.
Vote for environmentally aware and concerned candidates.
Improve education and teach critical thinking.
If we all did these common sense things, the world would be a lot better for us and all of life.
So what is the remedy then to man-made climate change? Taxing people out of their bonnets? Massive regulatory burden that all gets passed down to Consumers. Kill jobs? What is the solution? And how long before we see notable improvements if we did everything the experts say? How long would it take for the sea levels to go down and the ice caps to restore themselves? What then would be the next crises that we all have to pay for?
Suggestions (these are to lessen the impact of global warning and slow it down. Better is always better than worse):
Have fewer kids/ adopt.
Plant trees. Millions upon millions of trees.
Drive less. Walk, car pool, ride share, take public transit more.
Reduce consumption.
When we do consume, buy the most durable goods. That means less waste and, in the long run, saving money.
Eat less meat, more vegetarian and vegan.
Adjust thermostats to reduce energy usage. (More clothes in the winter, less or none in the summer.)
Keep tires inflated properly.
Use less hot water.
Avoid products that use a lot of packaging.
Vote for environmentally aware and concerned candidates.
Improve education and teach critical thinking.
If we all did these common sense things, the world would be a lot better for us and all of life.
Less meat?
Less meat, fewer meats. I'm pretty sure I have the grammar right on that, eh?
Eating meat is not the biggest cause of global warming, but it is a know factor. Beside that, eating less meat is good for the planet in other ways. Also, eating less meat and more produce is a smart health choice.
"Eating meat has a hefty impact on the environment from fueling climate change to polluting landscapes and waterways..."
"A swathe of research released over the past year has laid bare the hefty
impact that eating meat, especially beef and pork, has upon the
environment by fueling climate change and polluting landscapes and
waterways."
"In October, scientists warned
that huge reductions in meat eating are required if the world is to
stave off dangerous climate change, with beef consumption in western
countries needing to drop by 90%, replaced by five times more beans and
pulses."
Post edited by brianlux on
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
So I do care a great deal about the environment. I'm not convinced that climate change is mostly man-made considering the billions and billions of years that the planet has been here. ( call me a denier fine) For the sake of argument let's just say it is all man made okay. Some countries go entirely unregulated, they are the ones that should be hammered with Hyper regulation and massive penalties for doing absolutely nothing to control emissions. The United States regulatory job killing burden at one time was 2 trillion dollars, that's larger than some countries entire economy. Most successful industrialized nations do everything they can to keep up with the latest technology to stay up-to-date on the latest clean Technologies and improve their facilities as often as they can. Vehicles are much more efficient now than they were 30 years ago. I don't know if (electric) is the answer because you need to charge the battery. It takes electricity to charge the battery and you've got to produce the electricity somewhere. I'm all for Batteries if they can make them strong enough to do the job. But right now how are you going to move an 80,000 lb truck like the one I drive with battery, wind or solar power? How are you going to move a train that way? They have nuclear powered aircraft carriers that can go 20+ years without needing to dock anywhere. So nuclear power should be looked into a lot more. Planes Trains and Automobiles have all improved greatly in the last 30 years imagine another 30 more years of Technology and improvements I'm 42 now, I just remember when I was a kid, riding in the seat next to my mom, when a dump truck, or semi use to take off from a stop light, especially in those low gears, they would just billow out black smoke, buuuurp, shift buuuuuuuuurp, shift, buuuuuuuuuuurp that black shit would hang in the air, around the trees and stink, and slowly sink downward or blow away on the Wind. Nowadays look around you trucks are burning pretty clean. cleaner-burning diesel engines and emission control devices on the trucks called DEF ( diesel exhaust fluid) the exhaust system has screens in them that catche a lot of s*** and the DEF system periodically incinerates the crud off the screen while you're driving. And what I see coming out of smoke stacks nowadays is transparent emissions not opaque like they used to be. And that's a good thing. right? Factories aren't belching out black smoke anymore. If they have any smoke stacks nowadays it's usually Steam not black opaque smoke shit coming out. We now have a state-of-the-art water filtration facilities. Water that comes out of a current Metropolitan sewage district is cleaner than the water that comes out of the ground. It's amazing. But I hear people saying people are dying left and right. And we've only got 13 years left befoure WHAT?? Who is driving all the panic ? where is this Panic coming from???? I believe that is a lie to force government control of the masses. I don't hear much about the hole in the ozone anymore, I haven't heard anything about bird flu lately there's always something causing panic panic panic And we're all going to DIE if we don't act now !!! It is Now or never dammit!! And you're all guilty as hell!! Shame on us all four living shame on us for breathing shame on us eating and excreting and buying things like air conditioners and heaters. Furnaces and air conditioners keep millions and millions of people alive. have you ever noticed this? We are guilty for using the things that Keep Us Alive?? The we are all guilty, and we are all doomed in 13 years is a gargantuan lie. The people that promote all the guilt and fear don't believe their lies or they wouldn't be buying 15 million dollar ocean front property Estates. We should always be persuing cleaner water air & less emissions Etc. That's our duty. But I don't agree with the panic! When most industrialized nations are working towards cleaning it up. Not ignoring the problem but taking significant portions of profits and investing it back into cleaner technology... Why all the panic? Because a few chunks of falling ice got caught on camera The BBC NIGHTLY NEWS cast runs stories and videos of falling ice every night. . We're all doomed !!!They seek to create panic and chaos.. They've done a great job. I feel really bad for Greta Thunberg, I do.. She's a nice girl & clearly an angry girl. Some entity (The Left) has convinced her that we're all going to die very soon. That's a lie. And they chose a 16 year old girl to be their spokesperson. I feel bad for her because She is being used like a puppet by the Left to advance what I believe is a false sense of panic to force world government control on every man woman and child, And everything in between. The Global Left has convinced many good-hearted liberals that conservatives are the enemy. That's another huge lie by the Globalist Left. The Global Left creates all the divisive labels, and intolerance, not Liberals.
It's hard to describe but it's worth the effort.
Liberals and conservatives throughout the generations have always respectfully agreed to disagree, policy and politics, but at the end of the day over the weekend the two sides have always been able to put politics aside and go play golf. So (THE LEFT is an entity & apparatus) that HATES IT, when a Liberal and a Conservative go out together over the weekend, put their differences aside and have a good time. ( attend a ball game together, play golf together, attend the concert together Etc) I am convinced The left is anti togetherness. They want us to hate each other and dump beer down the neck of the person next to you with whom you differ with at the ballgame. I believe that is what's going on. The Left wants the two sides to hate each other permanently. Drive a wedge right down the middle. Even between family members, make the sister hate the brother. Make the daughter hate her father. That's what the Left wants. Conservatives and liberals can get along just fine. The Left seeks to drive the wedge between and destroy us all. That is the bottom line and that takes a lot of time to ponder. I'm telling you again my fellow liberal friends, conservatives are not by default your enemy. The LEFT is.
So I do care a great deal about the environment. I'm not convinced that climate change is mostly man-made considering the billions and billions of years that the planet has been here. ( call me a denier fine) For the sake of argument let's just say it is all man made okay. Some countries go entirely unregulated, they are the ones that should be hammered with Hyper regulation and massive penalties for doing absolutely nothing to control emissions. The United States regulatory job killing burden at one time was 2 trillion dollars, that's larger than some countries entire economy. Most successful industrialized nations do everything they can to keep up with the latest technology to stay up-to-date on the latest clean Technologies and improve their facilities as often as they can. Vehicles are much more efficient now than they were 30 years ago. I don't know if (electric) is the answer because you need to charge the battery. It takes electricity to charge the battery and you've got to produce the electricity somewhere. I'm all for Batteries if they can make them strong enough to do the job. But right now how are you going to move an 80,000 lb truck like the one I drive with battery, wind or solar power? How are you going to move a train that way? They have nuclear powered aircraft carriers that can go 20+ years without needing to dock anywhere. So nuclear power should be looked into a lot more. Planes Trains and Automobiles have all improved greatly in the last 30 years imagine another 30 more years of Technology and improvements I'm 42 now, I just remember when I was a kid, riding in the seat next to my mom, when a dump truck, or semi use to take off from a stop light, especially in those low gears, they would just billow out black smoke, buuuurp, shift buuuuuuuuurp, shift, buuuuuuuuuuurp that black shit would hang in the air, around the trees and stink, and slowly sink downward or blow away on the Wind. Nowadays look around you trucks are burning pretty clean. cleaner-burning diesel engines and emission control devices on the trucks called DEF ( diesel exhaust fluid) the exhaust system has screens in them that catche a lot of s*** and the DEF system periodically incinerates the crud off the screen while you're driving. And what I see coming out of smoke stacks nowadays is transparent emissions not opaque like they used to be. And that's a good thing. right? Factories aren't belching out black smoke anymore. If they have any smoke stacks nowadays it's usually Steam not black opaque smoke shit coming out. We now have a state-of-the-art water filtration facilities. Water that comes out of a current Metropolitan sewage district is cleaner than the water that comes out of the ground. It's amazing. But I hear people saying people are dying left and right. And we've only got 13 years left befoure WHAT?? Who is driving all the panic ? where is this Panic coming from???? I believe that is a lie to force government control of the masses. I don't hear much about the hole in the ozone anymore, I haven't heard anything about bird flu lately there's always something causing panic panic panic And we're all going to DIE if we don't act now !!! It is Now or never dammit!! And you're all guilty as hell!! Shame on us all four living shame on us for breathing shame on us eating and excreting and buying things like air conditioners and heaters. Furnaces and air conditioners keep millions and millions of people alive. have you ever noticed this? We are guilty for using the things that Keep Us Alive?? The we are all guilty, and we are all doomed in 13 years is a gargantuan lie. The people that promote all the guilt and fear don't believe their lies or they wouldn't be buying 15 million dollar ocean front property Estates. We should always be persuing cleaner water air & less emissions Etc. That's our duty. But I don't agree with the panic! When most industrialized nations are working towards cleaning it up. Not ignoring the problem but taking significant portions of profits and investing it back into cleaner technology... Why all the panic? Because a few chunks of falling ice got caught on camera The BBC NIGHTLY NEWS cast runs stories and videos of falling ice every night. . We're all doomed !!!They seek to create panic and chaos.. They've done a great job. I feel really bad for Greta Thunberg, I do.. She's a nice girl & clearly an angry girl. Some entity (The Left) has convinced her that we're all going to die very soon. That's a lie. And they chose a 16 year old girl to be their spokesperson. I feel bad for her because She is being used like a puppet by the Left to advance what I believe is a false sense of panic to force world government control on every man woman and child, And everything in between. The Global Left has convinced many good-hearted liberals that conservatives are the enemy. That's another huge lie by the Globalist Left. The Global Left creates all the divisive labels, and intolerance, not Liberals.
It's hard to describe but it's worth the effort.
Liberals and conservatives throughout the generations have always respectfully agreed to disagree, policy and politics, but at the end of the day over the weekend the two sides have always been able to put politics aside and go play golf. So (THE LEFT is an entity & apparatus) that HATES IT, when a Liberal and a Conservative go out together over the weekend, put their differences aside and have a good time. ( attend a ball game together, play golf together, attend the concert together Etc) I am convinced The left is anti togetherness. They want us to hate each other and dump beer down the neck of the person next to you with whom you differ with at the ballgame. I believe that is what's going on. The Left wants the two sides to hate each other permanently. Drive a wedge right down the middle. Even between family members, make the sister hate the brother. Make the daughter hate her father. That's what the Left wants. Conservatives and liberals can get along just fine. The Left seeks to drive the wedge between and destroy us all. That is the bottom line and that takes a lot of time to ponder. I'm telling you again my fellow liberal friends, conservatives are not by default your enemy. The LEFT is.
Fair enough HFD. Why do you think The Divide on all subjects is so right down the middle on virtually everything with not much wiggle room?
1. God - No god 2. Consertive - Leftist 3. Pro Gun rights - Anti gun rights 4. Pro Police - Anti police 5. Anti Kaepernick - Pro Kaepernick 6. Patriotism - globalism 7. Pro-lifers - Pro abortionists 8. Pro Trumpers - Trump haters 9. Climate change is natural - man-made climate change we're all doomed, every human is guilty by default for sucking air. 10. Capitalism free market - socialism Etc 11. Non enlightend - enlightened 12. Pro fossil fuel energy pro nuclear energy - we all need to live in population centers and ride bicycles for transportation. 13. Small government - big government Im sure there's more i can't think of right now. *I understand that I'm in the minority in this forum. But what's amazing to me is we differ on almost everything A-Z. I made a positive comment about AOC, and/but I still got called out & challeged. That's cool. Its a fun challenge for me to try to find just 1 sliver of common ground on something. Even if I don't support AOC, I respect her and enjoy listening to her when she speaks. I like Greta Thunberg, she looks like a nice girl. I dont like the way The Left is using & exploiting her to advance Whatever the cause is. ________?
it's not all right down the middle. I think we all fall on different parts of the spectrum on any given issue, but yeah, if you force someone to choose between black and white without the benefit of explaining if they are in fact grey, then that's the perception you're going to have.
and as for your #7: NO ONE IS PRO ABORTION.
Ummm yes, there are.
Nevermind, the labels are counter productive anyhow. You can pick multiple labels that basically mean the same thing it some are offensive and other preferred. Just like your use of climate change deniers. Accurate? Hmmmm perhaps. Man-made climate change denier? Accurate? More likely. But denier carries a certain connotation with it that just offends.
there are what? people that are pro-abortion? how does that work, exactly, being pro-abortion? just enjoy the idea of women terminating pregnancies for the sheer joy of it?
You don't have to enjoy it. Why would you have to get pleasure from it to be pro something?
explain to me what pro abortion means to you then.
For example. I’m also “for” aka “pro” gay marriage and I don’t plan on using it or getting any pleasure out of it.
your argument in semantics is ridiculous. i think you're just in one of your arguing moods again.
pro choice is not pro abortion and you know it. i abhor the idea of abortion. but i abhor the idea of a woman not having control over her own body slightly more.
i hope that clears that up.
being pro-gay marriage is being pro-equal rights. i'm not for everyone being married to the same sex. i'm for the idea that they can if that's who they choose to marry. come on, man.
Nah, I'm actually in a really great mood. It seems like you are not however.
It's not semantics. The only thing semantic about it is people that a pro-abortion trying to call themselves something different to feel better about it. But I don't know why. You are either for abortion being legal (PRO abortion) or you are against it (ANTI). You seem to think that me calling you pro-abortion means that you want to kill all babies yourself. It doesn't. It means I'm calling you some one that is for abortion legislation that makes it/keeps it legal. That's cool.
i'm in a fine mood thank you.
wrong. i am for whatever legislation keeps the government from controlling our bodies. it can be about forced pregnancy, it can be about forced vaccination programs, etc.
if you wish to make the leap that a pro-choicer is pro-abortion, i guess the leap could also be made that pro-lifers are pro-coat hanger, pro-rape/incest, etc.
stop trying to be clever and making some point about labeling. it's not working.
Honestly, I do not understand why you are so bent out of shape on this. But clearly it struck a nerve. So I’m just going to let it go. I hope you have great holiday. It’s not my intention to be argumentative for arguments sake.
i'll never understand why people do this: "clearly i struck a nerve" and claiming that someone is upset about something. it's lame. it's a clear attempt at trying to "win" the argument by claiming you don't care as much about it as the person you are engaging with does.
i'm not bent out of shape about anything. i just disagree with your statement.
i am anti abortion. but my stance on someone's liberty of their own body takes a slight edge.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
Fair enough HFD. Why do you think The Divide on all subjects is so right down the middle on virtually everything with not much wiggle room?
1. God - No god 2. Consertive - Leftist 3. Pro Gun rights - Anti gun rights 4. Pro Police - Anti police 5. Anti Kaepernick - Pro Kaepernick 6. Patriotism - globalism 7. Pro-lifers - Pro abortionists 8. Pro Trumpers - Trump haters 9. Climate change is natural - man-made climate change we're all doomed, every human is guilty by default for sucking air. 10. Capitalism free market - socialism Etc 11. Non enlightend - enlightened 12. Pro fossil fuel energy pro nuclear energy - we all need to live in population centers and ride bicycles for transportation. 13. Small government - big government Im sure there's more i can't think of right now. *I understand that I'm in the minority in this forum. But what's amazing to me is we differ on almost everything A-Z. I made a positive comment about AOC, and/but I still got called out & challeged. That's cool. Its a fun challenge for me to try to find just 1 sliver of common ground on something. Even if I don't support AOC, I respect her and enjoy listening to her when she speaks. I like Greta Thunberg, she looks like a nice girl. I dont like the way The Left is using & exploiting her to advance Whatever the cause is. ________?
it's not all right down the middle. I think we all fall on different parts of the spectrum on any given issue, but yeah, if you force someone to choose between black and white without the benefit of explaining if they are in fact grey, then that's the perception you're going to have.
and as for your #7: NO ONE IS PRO ABORTION.
Ummm yes, there are.
Nevermind, the labels are counter productive anyhow. You can pick multiple labels that basically mean the same thing it some are offensive and other preferred. Just like your use of climate change deniers. Accurate? Hmmmm perhaps. Man-made climate change denier? Accurate? More likely. But denier carries a certain connotation with it that just offends.
there are what? people that are pro-abortion? how does that work, exactly, being pro-abortion? just enjoy the idea of women terminating pregnancies for the sheer joy of it?
You don't have to enjoy it. Why would you have to get pleasure from it to be pro something?
explain to me what pro abortion means to you then.
For example. I’m also “for” aka “pro” gay marriage and I don’t plan on using it or getting any pleasure out of it.
your argument in semantics is ridiculous. i think you're just in one of your arguing moods again.
pro choice is not pro abortion and you know it. i abhor the idea of abortion. but i abhor the idea of a woman not having control over her own body slightly more.
i hope that clears that up.
being pro-gay marriage is being pro-equal rights. i'm not for everyone being married to the same sex. i'm for the idea that they can if that's who they choose to marry. come on, man.
Nah, I'm actually in a really great mood. It seems like you are not however.
It's not semantics. The only thing semantic about it is people that a pro-abortion trying to call themselves something different to feel better about it. But I don't know why. You are either for abortion being legal (PRO abortion) or you are against it (ANTI). You seem to think that me calling you pro-abortion means that you want to kill all babies yourself. It doesn't. It means I'm calling you some one that is for abortion legislation that makes it/keeps it legal. That's cool.
i'm in a fine mood thank you.
wrong. i am for whatever legislation keeps the government from controlling our bodies. it can be about forced pregnancy, it can be about forced vaccination programs, etc.
if you wish to make the leap that a pro-choicer is pro-abortion, i guess the leap could also be made that pro-lifers are pro-coat hanger, pro-rape/incest, etc.
stop trying to be clever and making some point about labeling. it's not working.
Honestly, I do not understand why you are so bent out of shape on this. But clearly it struck a nerve. So I’m just going to let it go. I hope you have great holiday. It’s not my intention to be argumentative for arguments sake.
i'll never understand why people do this: "clearly i struck a nerve" and claiming that someone is upset about something. it's lame. it's a clear attempt at trying to "win" the argument by claiming you don't care as much about it as the person you are engaging with does.
i'm not bent out of shape about anything. i just disagree with your statement.
i am anti abortion. but my stance on someone's liberty of their own body takes a slight edge.
Hugh - you accused me of being in some sort of an argumentative mood because I disagreed with you. And now you think it's unfair someone responds to you in kind? I really have no idea why you are even bringing this back up. We disagree. Not a big deal. But don't do something yourself and then try and claim some sort of high ground. We are not communicating effectively on this topic and I don't think it is likely that we will. So time to let it die.
Fair enough HFD. Why do you think The Divide on all subjects is so right down the middle on virtually everything with not much wiggle room?
1. God - No god 2. Consertive - Leftist 3. Pro Gun rights - Anti gun rights 4. Pro Police - Anti police 5. Anti Kaepernick - Pro Kaepernick 6. Patriotism - globalism 7. Pro-lifers - Pro abortionists 8. Pro Trumpers - Trump haters 9. Climate change is natural - man-made climate change we're all doomed, every human is guilty by default for sucking air. 10. Capitalism free market - socialism Etc 11. Non enlightend - enlightened 12. Pro fossil fuel energy pro nuclear energy - we all need to live in population centers and ride bicycles for transportation. 13. Small government - big government Im sure there's more i can't think of right now. *I understand that I'm in the minority in this forum. But what's amazing to me is we differ on almost everything A-Z. I made a positive comment about AOC, and/but I still got called out & challeged. That's cool. Its a fun challenge for me to try to find just 1 sliver of common ground on something. Even if I don't support AOC, I respect her and enjoy listening to her when she speaks. I like Greta Thunberg, she looks like a nice girl. I dont like the way The Left is using & exploiting her to advance Whatever the cause is. ________?
it's not all right down the middle. I think we all fall on different parts of the spectrum on any given issue, but yeah, if you force someone to choose between black and white without the benefit of explaining if they are in fact grey, then that's the perception you're going to have.
and as for your #7: NO ONE IS PRO ABORTION.
Ummm yes, there are.
Nevermind, the labels are counter productive anyhow. You can pick multiple labels that basically mean the same thing it some are offensive and other preferred. Just like your use of climate change deniers. Accurate? Hmmmm perhaps. Man-made climate change denier? Accurate? More likely. But denier carries a certain connotation with it that just offends.
there are what? people that are pro-abortion? how does that work, exactly, being pro-abortion? just enjoy the idea of women terminating pregnancies for the sheer joy of it?
You don't have to enjoy it. Why would you have to get pleasure from it to be pro something?
explain to me what pro abortion means to you then.
For example. I’m also “for” aka “pro” gay marriage and I don’t plan on using it or getting any pleasure out of it.
your argument in semantics is ridiculous. i think you're just in one of your arguing moods again.
pro choice is not pro abortion and you know it. i abhor the idea of abortion. but i abhor the idea of a woman not having control over her own body slightly more.
i hope that clears that up.
being pro-gay marriage is being pro-equal rights. i'm not for everyone being married to the same sex. i'm for the idea that they can if that's who they choose to marry. come on, man.
Nah, I'm actually in a really great mood. It seems like you are not however.
It's not semantics. The only thing semantic about it is people that a pro-abortion trying to call themselves something different to feel better about it. But I don't know why. You are either for abortion being legal (PRO abortion) or you are against it (ANTI). You seem to think that me calling you pro-abortion means that you want to kill all babies yourself. It doesn't. It means I'm calling you some one that is for abortion legislation that makes it/keeps it legal. That's cool.
i'm in a fine mood thank you.
wrong. i am for whatever legislation keeps the government from controlling our bodies. it can be about forced pregnancy, it can be about forced vaccination programs, etc.
if you wish to make the leap that a pro-choicer is pro-abortion, i guess the leap could also be made that pro-lifers are pro-coat hanger, pro-rape/incest, etc.
stop trying to be clever and making some point about labeling. it's not working.
Honestly, I do not understand why you are so bent out of shape on this. But clearly it struck a nerve. So I’m just going to let it go. I hope you have great holiday. It’s not my intention to be argumentative for arguments sake.
i'll never understand why people do this: "clearly i struck a nerve" and claiming that someone is upset about something. it's lame. it's a clear attempt at trying to "win" the argument by claiming you don't care as much about it as the person you are engaging with does.
i'm not bent out of shape about anything. i just disagree with your statement.
i am anti abortion. but my stance on someone's liberty of their own body takes a slight edge.
Hugh - you accused me of being in some sort of an argumentative mood because I disagreed with you. And now you think it's unfair someone responds to you in kind? I really have no idea why you are even bringing this back up. We disagree. Not a big deal. But don't do something yourself and then try and claim some sort of high ground. We are not communicating effectively on this topic and I don't think it is likely that we will. So time to let it die.
only because you have admitted to being so (in an argumentative mood) in the past. So I assumed, given the absurdity of the claim (pro-abortion), I thought it might be the same type of situation.
I brought it back up because I haven't been on this website since your last comment on it.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
After reading through here (this particular thread and any other thread on AMT), I always wonder how it's possible that I am a pearl jam fan, work in natural gas industry, tend to vote Republican, practicing Catholic, etc. How can I be both a pearl jam fan and all these other things? Its like I am the embodiment of everything thing that sucks. Big gulp huh... welp, see ya later.
Post edited by j1kotwic on
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,288
After reading through here (this particular thread and any other thread on AMT), I always wonder how it's possible that I am a pearl jam fan, work in natural gas industry, tend to vote Republican, practicing Catholic, etc. How can I be both a pearl jam fan and all these other things? Its like I am the embodiment of everything thing that sucks. Big gulp huh... welp, see ya later.
I don't see the problem:
-Many Pearl Jam fans use natural gas (here at home we use propane- that's a natural gas, right?)
-"Tend to vote Republican" means you are open to not always voting party line. That sounds solid enough.
-You're a practicing Catholic, fine. I'm a practicing believer in The Mystery of the Universe. Some others here are practicing atheists, practicing Pentecostals, practicing Buddhists, practicing nudists.
It's all good. Relax. No need for hit and runs posts. Talk to your fellow PJ fans. If anyone gives you shit or won't talk respectfully with you, just move on. Others of us here will engage respectfully with you and hopefully will get the same in return.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
So I do care a great deal about the environment. I'm not convinced that climate change is mostly man-made considering the billions and billions of years that the planet has been here. ( call me a denier fine) For the sake of argument let's just say it is all man made okay. Some countries go entirely unregulated, they are the ones that should be hammered with Hyper regulation and massive penalties for doing absolutely nothing to control emissions. The United States regulatory job killing burden at one time was 2 trillion dollars, that's larger than some countries entire economy. Most successful industrialized nations do everything they can to keep up with the latest technology to stay up-to-date on the latest clean Technologies and improve their facilities as often as they can. Vehicles are much more efficient now than they were 30 years ago. I don't know if (electric) is the answer because you need to charge the battery. It takes electricity to charge the battery and you've got to produce the electricity somewhere. I'm all for Batteries if they can make them strong enough to do the job. But right now how are you going to move an 80,000 lb truck like the one I drive with battery, wind or solar power? How are you going to move a train that way? They have nuclear powered aircraft carriers that can go 20+ years without needing to dock anywhere. So nuclear power should be looked into a lot more. Planes Trains and Automobiles have all improved greatly in the last 30 years imagine another 30 more years of Technology and improvements I'm 42 now, I just remember when I was a kid, riding in the seat next to my mom, when a dump truck, or semi use to take off from a stop light, especially in those low gears, they would just billow out black smoke, buuuurp, shift buuuuuuuuurp, shift, buuuuuuuuuuurp that black shit would hang in the air, around the trees and stink, and slowly sink downward or blow away on the Wind. Nowadays look around you trucks are burning pretty clean. cleaner-burning diesel engines and emission control devices on the trucks called DEF ( diesel exhaust fluid) the exhaust system has screens in them that catche a lot of s*** and the DEF system periodically incinerates the crud off the screen while you're driving. And what I see coming out of smoke stacks nowadays is transparent emissions not opaque like they used to be. And that's a good thing. right? Factories aren't belching out black smoke anymore. If they have any smoke stacks nowadays it's usually Steam not black opaque smoke shit coming out. We now have a state-of-the-art water filtration facilities. Water that comes out of a current Metropolitan sewage district is cleaner than the water that comes out of the ground. It's amazing. But I hear people saying people are dying left and right. And we've only got 13 years left befoure WHAT?? Who is driving all the panic ? where is this Panic coming from???? I believe that is a lie to force government control of the masses. I don't hear much about the hole in the ozone anymore, I haven't heard anything about bird flu lately there's always something causing panic panic panic And we're all going to DIE if we don't act now !!! It is Now or never dammit!! And you're all guilty as hell!! Shame on us all four living shame on us for breathing shame on us eating and excreting and buying things like air conditioners and heaters. Furnaces and air conditioners keep millions and millions of people alive. have you ever noticed this? We are guilty for using the things that Keep Us Alive?? The we are all guilty, and we are all doomed in 13 years is a gargantuan lie. The people that promote all the guilt and fear don't believe their lies or they wouldn't be buying 15 million dollar ocean front property Estates. We should always be persuing cleaner water air & less emissions Etc. That's our duty. But I don't agree with the panic! When most industrialized nations are working towards cleaning it up. Not ignoring the problem but taking significant portions of profits and investing it back into cleaner technology... Why all the panic? Because a few chunks of falling ice got caught on camera The BBC NIGHTLY NEWS cast runs stories and videos of falling ice every night. . We're all doomed !!!They seek to create panic and chaos.. They've done a great job. I feel really bad for Greta Thunberg, I do.. She's a nice girl & clearly an angry girl. Some entity (The Left) has convinced her that we're all going to die very soon. That's a lie. And they chose a 16 year old girl to be their spokesperson. I feel bad for her because She is being used like a puppet by the Left to advance what I believe is a false sense of panic to force world government control on every man woman and child, And everything in between. The Global Left has convinced many good-hearted liberals that conservatives are the enemy. That's another huge lie by the Globalist Left. The Global Left creates all the divisive labels, and intolerance, not Liberals.
It's hard to describe but it's worth the effort.
Liberals and conservatives throughout the generations have always respectfully agreed to disagree, policy and politics, but at the end of the day over the weekend the two sides have always been able to put politics aside and go play golf. So (THE LEFT is an entity & apparatus) that HATES IT, when a Liberal and a Conservative go out together over the weekend, put their differences aside and have a good time. ( attend a ball game together, play golf together, attend the concert together Etc) I am convinced The left is anti togetherness. They want us to hate each other and dump beer down the neck of the person next to you with whom you differ with at the ballgame. I believe that is what's going on. The Left wants the two sides to hate each other permanently. Drive a wedge right down the middle. Even between family members, make the sister hate the brother. Make the daughter hate her father. That's what the Left wants. Conservatives and liberals can get along just fine. The Left seeks to drive the wedge between and destroy us all. That is the bottom line and that takes a lot of time to ponder. I'm telling you again my fellow liberal friends, conservatives are not by default your enemy. The LEFT is.
You might want to read Marx (and others) re: class solidarity.
After reading through here (this particular thread and any other thread on AMT), I always wonder how it's possible that I am a pearl jam fan, work in natural gas industry, tend to vote Republican, practicing Catholic, etc. How can I be both a pearl jam fan and all these other things? Its like I am the embodiment of everything thing that sucks. Big gulp huh... welp, see ya later.
Run for the hills and spend your free time on other subjects on this pay site. Make no mistake about it, YOU are the ENEMY on here after reading how you describe yourself. It’s not called ALL Accepting Trip for a reason..... But if you do play on this thread, do it while taking your mourning glory and pay attention to Brian, he is the most reasonable person on here from what I have noticed. God Bless
After reading through here (this particular thread and any other thread on AMT), I always wonder how it's possible that I am a pearl jam fan, work in natural gas industry, tend to vote Republican, practicing Catholic, etc. How can I be both a pearl jam fan and all these other things? Its like I am the embodiment of everything thing that sucks. Big gulp huh... welp, see ya later.
Run for the hills and spend your free time on other subjects on this pay site. Make no mistake about it, YOU are the ENEMY on here after reading how you describe yourself. It’s not called ALL Accepting Trip for a reason..... But if you do play on this thread, do it while taking your mourning glory and pay attention to Brian, he is the most reasonable person on here from what I have noticed. God Bless
Aren't you the lady who attacked Greta and her mom labeling them terrorists without knowing anything about what you were talking about?
And then never owned up to not knowing anything but instead....
.... ran for the hills?
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,288
After reading through here (this particular thread and any other thread on AMT), I always wonder how it's possible that I am a pearl jam fan, work in natural gas industry, tend to vote Republican, practicing Catholic, etc. How can I be both a pearl jam fan and all these other things? Its like I am the embodiment of everything thing that sucks. Big gulp huh... welp, see ya later.
Run for the hills and spend your free time on other subjects on this pay site. Make no mistake about it, YOU are the ENEMY on here after reading how you describe yourself. It’s not called ALL Accepting Trip for a reason..... But if you do play on this thread, do it while taking your mourning glory and pay attention to Brian, he is the most reasonable person on here from what I have noticed. God Bless
Can I run along side you in the hills so we can talk? I'm not your enemy and I'm sorry you see others here as your enemy. The way I see it, if Pearl Jam fans can't be civil with each other, we're in deep shit. This is where coming together and being decent with each other can happen. We may not agree, but if we snipe rather than talk, we're wasting our time.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
After reading through here (this particular thread and any other thread on AMT), I always wonder how it's possible that I am a pearl jam fan, work in natural gas industry, tend to vote Republican, practicing Catholic, etc. How can I be both a pearl jam fan and all these other things? Its like I am the embodiment of everything thing that sucks. Big gulp huh... welp, see ya later.
the only enemies of anyone here are the assholes. no one cares about your political or spiritual connections.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
After reading through here (this particular thread and any other thread on AMT), I always wonder how it's possible that I am a pearl jam fan, work in natural gas industry, tend to vote Republican, practicing Catholic, etc. How can I be both a pearl jam fan and all these other things? Its like I am the embodiment of everything thing that sucks. Big gulp huh... welp, see ya later.
the only enemies of anyone here are the assholes. no one cares about your political or spiritual connections.
I do
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,288
We probably would do well to talk about Greta Thunberg and global warming here since that is what this thread is about. Otherwise, it gets shut down and what's the point of that?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Comments
For the sake of argument let's just say it is all man made okay. Some countries go entirely unregulated, they are the ones that should be hammered with Hyper regulation and massive penalties for doing absolutely nothing to control emissions. The United States regulatory job killing burden at one time was
2 trillion dollars, that's larger than some countries entire economy.
Most successful industrialized nations do everything they can to keep up with the latest technology to stay up-to-date on the latest clean Technologies and improve their facilities as often as they can. Vehicles are much more efficient now than they were 30 years ago. I don't know if (electric) is the answer because you need to charge the battery. It takes electricity to charge the battery and you've got to produce the electricity somewhere. I'm all for Batteries if they can make them strong enough to do the job. But right now how are you going to move an 80,000 lb truck like the one I drive with battery, wind or solar power? How are you going to move a train that way? They have nuclear powered aircraft carriers that can go 20+ years without needing to dock anywhere. So nuclear power should be looked into a lot more. Planes Trains and Automobiles have all improved greatly in the last 30 years imagine another 30 more years of Technology and improvements
I'm 42 now, I just remember when I was a kid, riding in the seat next to my mom, when a dump truck, or semi use to take off from a stop light, especially in those low gears, they would just billow out black smoke, buuuurp, shift buuuuuuuuurp, shift, buuuuuuuuuuurp that black shit would hang in the air, around the trees and stink, and slowly sink downward or blow away on the Wind. Nowadays look around you trucks are burning pretty clean. cleaner-burning diesel engines and emission control devices on the trucks called DEF ( diesel exhaust fluid) the exhaust system has screens in them that catche a lot of s*** and the DEF system periodically incinerates the crud off the screen while you're driving. And what I see coming out of smoke stacks nowadays is transparent emissions not opaque like they used to be. And that's a good thing. right? Factories aren't belching out black smoke anymore. If they have any smoke stacks nowadays it's usually Steam not black opaque smoke shit coming out.
We now have a state-of-the-art water filtration facilities. Water that comes out of a current Metropolitan sewage district is cleaner than the water that comes out of the ground. It's amazing. But I hear people saying people are dying left and right. And we've only got 13 years left befoure WHAT?? Who is driving all the panic ? where is this Panic coming from???? I believe that is a lie to force government control of the masses. I don't hear much about the hole in the ozone anymore, I haven't heard anything about bird flu lately there's always something causing panic panic panic
And we're all going to DIE if we don't act now !!! It is Now or never dammit!! And you're all guilty as hell!! Shame on us all four living shame on us for breathing shame on us eating and excreting and buying things like air conditioners and heaters. Furnaces and air conditioners keep millions and millions of people alive.
have you ever noticed this? We are guilty for using the things that Keep Us Alive??
The we are all guilty, and we are all doomed in 13 years is a gargantuan lie. The people that promote all the guilt and fear don't believe their lies or they wouldn't be buying 15 million dollar ocean front property Estates.
We should always be persuing cleaner water air & less emissions Etc. That's our duty.
But I don't agree with the panic!
When most industrialized nations are working towards cleaning it up. Not ignoring the problem but taking significant portions of profits and investing it back into cleaner technology...
Why all the panic? Because a few chunks of falling ice got caught on camera The BBC NIGHTLY NEWS cast runs stories and videos of falling ice every night. . We're all doomed !!!They seek to create panic and chaos.. They've done a great job.
I feel really bad for Greta Thunberg, I do.. She's a nice girl & clearly an angry girl. Some entity (The Left) has convinced her that we're all going to die very soon. That's a lie. And they chose a 16 year old girl to be their spokesperson.
I feel bad for her because She is being used like a puppet by the Left to advance what I believe is a false sense of panic to force world government control on every man woman and child, And everything in between.
The Global Left has convinced many good-hearted liberals that conservatives are the enemy. That's another huge lie by the Globalist Left. The Global Left creates all the divisive labels, and intolerance, not Liberals.
It's hard to describe but it's worth the effort.
Liberals and conservatives throughout the generations have always respectfully agreed to disagree, policy and politics, but at the end of the day over the weekend the two sides have always been able to put politics aside and go play golf.
So (THE LEFT is an entity & apparatus)
that HATES IT, when a
Liberal and a Conservative go out together over the weekend, put their differences aside and have a good time.
( attend a ball game together, play golf together, attend the concert together Etc)
I am convinced The left is anti togetherness. They want us to hate each other and dump beer down the neck of the person next to you with whom you differ with at the ballgame.
I believe that is what's going on. The Left wants the two sides to hate each other permanently. Drive a wedge right down the middle. Even between family members, make the sister hate the brother. Make the daughter hate her father. That's what the Left wants.
Conservatives and liberals can get along just fine. The Left seeks to drive the wedge between and destroy us all. That is the bottom line and that takes a lot of time to ponder.
I'm telling you again my fellow liberal friends, conservatives are not by default your enemy. The LEFT is.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Only for people with meme mentality will confine themselves thus. She and other intelligent people like her will carry on with the good work that needs to be done and they will get better at it. I'd put money on that.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
To these people I would say, "You really want to take a chance on global warming? Roll the dice behind your shades, people."
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Among other inappropriate things to say to a child.
Fireworks Model "Greta"
i'm not bent out of shape about anything. i just disagree with your statement.
i am anti abortion. but my stance on someone's liberty of their own body takes a slight edge.
-EV 8/14/93
I brought it back up because I haven't been on this website since your last comment on it.
-EV 8/14/93
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pATW1bYVp0I&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0Qewasiing6YQdfKf5hR7XhkBMENJjlqypuiW-BQl_9esBxG_uspoXywo
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
And then never owned up to not knowing anything but instead....
.... ran for the hills?
Can I run along side you in the hills so we can talk? I'm not your enemy and I'm sorry you see others here as your enemy. The way I see it, if Pearl Jam fans can't be civil with each other, we're in deep shit. This is where coming together and being decent with each other can happen. We may not agree, but if we snipe rather than talk, we're wasting our time.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-EV 8/14/93
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"