Ticketmaster Verified Resale, Dynamic Pricing, etc.

Lerxst1992

deadendp said:

Lerxst1992 said:

dudeman said:

Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

I could swear that these are paper...

FWIW here is the TM message for the upcoming Wilco show. This is fairly common for shows I look to attend.

"Tickets will not be emailed or available to print."

Lerxst1992

Poncier said:

Poncier said:

Ticketmaster's massive expansion of what they sell now as "Platinum" tickets (they sell balcony seats as platinum for many shows now)

So for shits & giggles I just looked at the seat map for Tool at the TD Garden in Boston.
They are selling Balcony 314 row 15 as Platinum. Literally the last row in the balcony, in a section just before you hit the turn at the opposite end of the stage and this is considered a "platinum" ticket and sold by TM for a huge mark up over face. I mean whether its Maynard, Danny or Live Nation who's behind it, don't piss down my leg and tell me its raining. Just make the face value of crap seats nearly $300.00 rather than telling me its a premium "platinum" seat and worth a larger price of admission.
Its one of the worst seats in the building. Maybe 97th percentile of bad.

https://www1.ticketmaster.com/event/01005717C0DD5F7B

Those lower level Tool tickets that were $400 are now $356. The promoter ( the company that owns Ticketmaster) is monitoring the market and adjusting the process based on purchasing . I can not think of a fairer system.

If Tool performs at a particular city once every 4 years on average, why is it not completely fair for fans to save $9 per month for good seats to a premium event?

This, of course, would be impossible to do for a privately ticketed event like a PJ show unless someone invents a time machine.

PardonMe

I guess that I’m an idealist because I want to attend shows where most of the people are the same fans that buy the band’s albums and merch, post in a band’s forums, and know all of the words to the songs. PJs system isn’t perfect but it does attempt to give real fans the first shot at tickets and their tickets tend to be much less than other bands of their stature.

I’d like to see a system where you pay to join a fan club and get tickets to 1 show as part of that. Maybe even have an opportunity to get additional tickets for buying merchandise or pre-ordering albums. Do something like the lottery for the remaining tickets and, if there are any left, let a broker sell those. You could have an ID with a barcode (or something similar), where the ticket is loaded onto that so it can’t be resold. This way, true fans are most likely to be at the shows and the band gets the money.

dades

One thing that’s always bothered me is, for example Elton John announced his farewell tour ages ago and he won’t get to Glasgow until next year. A full 2years since the tickets went on sale. The capacity is 13000 or thereabouts. If the tickets are say £100 that’s £1.3 million per gig ( sure he’s playing 2 shows) so 2.6million, sitting in a bank making interest. Multiply that buy the whole tour and they must be making millions upon millions for doing nothing. Even if even if the tour or dates get cancelled or postponed they are still making money, like the Ozzy European tour  postponed for a second time yesterday.

Poncier

Spark28 said:

Ticketmaster doesn't have nearly as much control as many of you think on a lot of these items.

To have verified resale, the band/promoter have to agree to turn on resale for the event. Once the decision is made to turn on resale, the fees, as with all the ticket service fees, are split between TM and the promoter/venue. With the number of resale sites out there, it isn't possible to stop the resale of tickets. Measures have been put in place to control the resale like digital tickets, rotating barcodes, block chain, etc., but it will continue to happen and in many states must be allowed to happen. It comes down to does the promoter want the primary tickets listed with resale tickets that could be above or below the "face value".

The promoter chooses to sell platinum tickets. The promoter chooses to sell VIP packages. The promoter chooses to have special presales. Bands can chose their promoter. Bands can take a smaller paycheck and dictate not to use some of these options. Ticketmaster just facilitates these transactions. If Ticketmaster did not facilitate these transactions, they would shift to another site that would. 

Again, as I have stated earlier in the thread, Ticketmaster is the promoter for the vast majority of shows.

Live Nation is the largest concert promoter in the country. They have exclusive deals with most major artists and venues.

Live Nation and Ticketmaster merged in 2010. They keep 2 separate names for 2 branches of the same company.

Poncier

Lerxst1992 said:

deadendp said:

Lerxst1992 said:

dudeman said:

Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

I could swear that these are paper...

FWIW here is the TM message for the upcoming Wilco show. This is fairly common for shows I look to attend.

"Tickets will not be emailed or available to print."

That may be the venue, not sure where your show is.

But the TD Garden is trying to go all mobile. Bruins & Celtics tix are now all mobile. Not sure if they have done it 100% for concerts yet, last show I went to there was in 2018 and I got a hard ticket for that.

We are heading in that direction unfortunately. There needs to be some exceptions made, though it doesn't seem like it, there are still folks who don't carry a smart phone (we heard from them last year here, and PJ made arrangements for those cases).

And I don't know how difficult it is to transfer the mobile tickets say out of a season ticket account. If you have Bruins season tix, likely you wouldn't go to every game and would give some games to friends and family or if a business has them they give them to clients. An easy task when you just have to give them the printed ticket, or even an email pdf file, can get more complicated transferring the mobile ticket (Black Keys LA fiasco for example).

Poncier

dades said:

One thing that’s always bothered me is, for example Elton John announced his farewell tour ages ago and he won’t get to Glasgow until next year. A full 2years since the tickets went on sale. The capacity is 13000 or thereabouts. If the tickets are say £100 that’s £1.3 million per gig ( sure he’s playing 2 shows) so 2.6million, sitting in a bank making interest. Multiply that buy the whole tour and they must be making millions upon millions for doing nothing. Even if even if the tour or dates get cancelled or postponed they are still making money, like the Ozzy European tour  postponed for a second time yesterday.

Yeah there was a time and not that long ago, where tickets would go on sale for a show a couple months before the show, sometimes even less.

I recall when Great Woods (now the Xfinity Center after several corporate name changes over the years) first opened in Mansfield MA in the mid 80's. The first decade or so there would be a big announcement in the spring, usually late April or early May of the lineup for the summer...then tickets would go on sale over a number of days for the various shows, and some more shows would be added later. Never had to buy tickets for a show that was a year away, or 10 months away or anything close. Longest wait would be maybe 4 months.

Now its commonplace for the shows to go on sale way in advance (Green Day/Weezer summer tour for next year went on sale over a month ago)

Thou don' know how much interest they earn as banks basically pay nothing these days. But it forces fans to spend the money way in advance, and make a decision about their availability to attend a year out.

Lerxst1992

Poncier said:

Lerxst1992 said:

deadendp said:

Lerxst1992 said:

dudeman said:

Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

I could swear that these are paper...

FWIW here is the TM message for the upcoming Wilco show. This is fairly common for shows I look to attend.

"Tickets will not be emailed or available to print."

That may be the venue, not sure where your show is.

But the TD Garden is trying to go all mobile. Bruins & Celtics tix are now all mobile. Not sure if they have done it 100% for concerts yet, last show I went to there was in 2018 and I got a hard ticket for that.

We are heading in that direction unfortunately. There needs to be some exceptions made, though it doesn't seem like it, there are still folks who don't carry a smart phone (we heard from them last year here, and PJ made arrangements for those cases).

And I don't know how difficult it is to transfer the mobile tickets say out of a season ticket account. If you have Bruins season tix, likely you wouldn't go to every game and would give some games to friends and family or if a business has them they give them to clients. An easy task when you just have to give them the printed ticket, or even an email pdf file, can get more complicated transferring the mobile ticket (Black Keys LA fiasco for example).

That Wilco show was at radio city. I find tickets on my phone time consuming and clunky. I had seats very close and walked in during the opener. The phone automatically goes into full bright mode when showing ticket to ushers and being close to the stage it seemed distracting. Most TM shows seem to push me to get the e ticket.

Poncier

They seem to default to mobile tickets, but depending on the venue you can select a different option, though not always.

Like I said the TD Garden is attempting to do Bruins & Celts all mobile. Interestingly I just out of curiosity checked for tix for the Bruins game today at 1:00. It defaults as mobile but gives you the option to choose will call if you prefer. However for a game a few weeks away I checked and mobile is the only option.
For concerts however it appears that while mobile is the setting it defaults to, you can change to pdf, regular mail or UPS. So for now only forcing mobile for the B's & C's, but definitely trying to steer everyone that way for other shows.

pjl44

Lerxst1992 said:

Poncier said:

Lerxst1992 said:

deadendp said:

Lerxst1992 said:

dudeman said:

Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

I could swear that these are paper...

FWIW here is the TM message for the upcoming Wilco show. This is fairly common for shows I look to attend.

"Tickets will not be emailed or available to print."

That may be the venue, not sure where your show is.

But the TD Garden is trying to go all mobile. Bruins & Celtics tix are now all mobile. Not sure if they have done it 100% for concerts yet, last show I went to there was in 2018 and I got a hard ticket for that.

We are heading in that direction unfortunately. There needs to be some exceptions made, though it doesn't seem like it, there are still folks who don't carry a smart phone (we heard from them last year here, and PJ made arrangements for those cases).

And I don't know how difficult it is to transfer the mobile tickets say out of a season ticket account. If you have Bruins season tix, likely you wouldn't go to every game and would give some games to friends and family or if a business has them they give them to clients. An easy task when you just have to give them the printed ticket, or even an email pdf file, can get more complicated transferring the mobile ticket (Black Keys LA fiasco for example).

That Wilco show was at radio city. I find tickets on my phone time consuming and clunky. I had seats very close and walked in during the opener. The phone automatically goes into full bright mode when showing ticket to ushers and being close to the stage it seemed distracting. Most TM shows seem to push me to get the e ticket.

They definitely use e-ticket as the default option. You just have to click the dropdown and switch to standard ticket. 99% of shows I get tickets for have a hard ticket option. 

pjl44

Poncier said:

For concerts however it appears that while mobile is the setting it defaults to, you can change to pdf, regular mail or UPS. So for now only forcing mobile for the B's & C's, but definitely trying to steer everyone that way for other shows.

I'll also point out it's been like this for a long time. They've used print-at-home/eticket as the default option for like 5 years, give or take.

It's surprising to me that they don't push harder, actually. For most shows it's still free to have the hard tickets sent. The times that they do charge, it's 2 bucks. I thought for sure they would have made it more cost prohibitive at this point. Really thankful that they haven't!

Poncier

They are getting $4.50 to mail hard tickets for a lot of shows nowadays.
I remember back when they first introduced "print at home" and mail was still free, but you could print them at home for a fee of $2.00 or $2.50...let's see have you print them on hard stock and mail them to me for free or have me print them on my regular paper using my ink for 2 bucks...easy choice.
Took them years to smarten up on that one.

Lerxst1992

Newark Tool tickets lower level now $230 + fees. Going fast.

How is market pricing not infinitely fairer than a private fan club sale?


 

pjl44

Lerxst1992 said:

Newark Tool tickets lower level now $230 + fees. Going fast.

How is market pricing not infinitely fairer than a private fan club sale?


 

There's no such thing as fair, just priorities. Both approaches are reasonable. 

Artist 1: Wants to get tickets in fans' hands at reasonable prices. Seniority-based seating keeps a bunch of scalpers from joining and pulling the best seats.

Artist 2: I don't have the energy to deal with ticket distribution. Go get us the most money you can while getting the most people in the room.

tempo_n_groove

Of course I want the platinum!!! Duh?!?

Lerxst1992

pjl44 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Newark Tool tickets lower level now $230 + fees. Going fast.

How is market pricing not infinitely fairer than a private fan club sale?


 

There's no such thing as fair, just priorities. Both approaches are reasonable. 

Artist 1: Wants to get tickets in fans' hands at reasonable prices. Seniority-based seating keeps a bunch of scalpers from joining and pulling the best seats.

Artist 2: I don't have the energy to deal with ticket distribution. Go get us the most money you can while getting the most people in the room.

Option 1 locks out the same fans from best seats possibly forever. Seniority should have priviliges but not absolute imo.

 PJ actually did a good job keeping out scalpers by distributing tickets at the last minute and with the digital ticket no transfer policy. 


 

Lerxst1992

tempo_n_groove said:

Of course I want the platinum!!! Duh?!?

You get to brag to all the ladies (or gents) you paid more bc you are a real fan!

pjl44

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Newark Tool tickets lower level now $230 + fees. Going fast.

How is market pricing not infinitely fairer than a private fan club sale?


 

There's no such thing as fair, just priorities. Both approaches are reasonable. 

Artist 1: Wants to get tickets in fans' hands at reasonable prices. Seniority-based seating keeps a bunch of scalpers from joining and pulling the best seats.

Artist 2: I don't have the energy to deal with ticket distribution. Go get us the most money you can while getting the most people in the room.

Option 1 locks out the same fans from best seats possibly forever. Seniority should have priviliges but not absolute imo.

 PJ actually did a good job keeping out scalpers by distributing tickets at the last minute and with the digital ticket no transfer policy. 


 

The lottery rows and GA shows mitigate that. Clearly it's their ethos that they don't want people who buy their way up front to be up front.

benjs

PardonMe said:

I guess that I’m an idealist because I want to attend shows where most of the people are the same fans that buy the band’s albums and merch, post in a band’s forums, and know all of the words to the songs. PJs system isn’t perfect but it does attempt to give real fans the first shot at tickets and their tickets tend to be much less than other bands of their stature.

I’d like to see a system where you pay to join a fan club and get tickets to 1 show as part of that. Maybe even have an opportunity to get additional tickets for buying merchandise or pre-ordering albums. Do something like the lottery for the remaining tickets and, if there are any left, let a broker sell those. You could have an ID with a barcode (or something similar), where the ticket is loaded onto that so it can’t be resold. This way, true fans are most likely to be at the shows and the band gets the money.

Two points. First, if you don't think scalpers will find a way to game fan clubs scalping tickets bought way below market value, I don't think you've been paying attention. Second, what if you just can't make the show any more? These restrictive practices end up affecting the 'true fans' in adverse ways. 

When artists don't charge market value for their tickets, the fact is that the scalping industry does. The noble venture of leaving money on the table so that 'true fans' get in doesn't exist in the real world, because when the artists leave money on the table, the scalpers pocket it by charging at or above market value, and 'true fans' suffer. Why some think it's superior to have scalpers pocketing market value instead of artists is completely beyond me, as is why some think it's immoral for artists to claim these funds instead of scalpers. 

I listen to a podcast about politics where they often say how in any policy, there are always winners and there are always losers. Consistent pricing policies favour a lucky few who get to buy tickets well below market value, and disservice an unlucky mass who will choose to buy tickets at or above market value, as well as the artists who forfeit much of their revenue to subsidize fixed-price tickets and to deliver revenue to scalpers. Dynamic first-sale pricing policies disservice those who had 'trigger fingers' and were able to quickly buy concert tickets, and favours those who formerly would have bought at or above market value through the resale market as well as the artists who are able to recoup a greater chunk of the revenue share. 

Poncier

tempo_n_groove said:

Of course I want the platinum!!! Duh?!?

Dude, its Platinum. By definition its better!