Ticketmaster Verified Resale, Dynamic Pricing, etc.

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  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.
    Do you know how that money flows though? How do you know they keep all of that incremental revenue? There have been stories about high profile artists (Katy Perry and Metallica I think?) being involved in plans to divert good seats. I don't feel like I have a handle on how standard or varied those agreements are. 
  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,889
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.
    Are you able to point me in the direction of where it was proven?  I thought it was a conflict of interest and that it created potential for this to happen.  I hadn't realized it had occured.. would like to know more.

    I do know what promoters will sell tickets directly to brokers for above face to get more money on the tickets (to make more money and pay larger guarantees to the band).   It makes me wonder how TM is going about it.   Directly selling them themselves, or promoter selling the tickets directly to a broker, who then resells via TM.

    I also had to sell a pair of GNR tickets a few years ago (bought a better pair).   TM's cut was nasty.    Stubhub was a fair bit cheaper.   If your a person trying to sell an extra pair you already have to ask way above face just to break even :(
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    Zod said:
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.


    I also had to sell a pair of GNR tickets a few years ago (bought a better pair).   TM's cut was nasty.    Stubhub was a fair bit cheaper.   If your a person trying to sell an extra pair you already have to ask way above face just to break even :(
    That's another good point. Convenience has definitely come with a cost. It's the same when you're selling stuff on Ebay. Ebay takes their slice, PayPal takes their slice, then you rub your chin a little. 
  • cutz
    cutz Posts: 12,227
    There was a better Video of this that someone posted awhile back, but i can't find it. Here's another:

    https://youtu.be/q9xZznpVWXA
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,336
    pjl44 said:
    Zod said:
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.


    I also had to sell a pair of GNR tickets a few years ago (bought a better pair).   TM's cut was nasty.    Stubhub was a fair bit cheaper.   If your a person trying to sell an extra pair you already have to ask way above face just to break even :(
    That's another good point. Convenience has definitely come with a cost. It's the same when you're selling stuff on Ebay. Ebay takes their slice, PayPal takes their slice, then you rub your chin a little. 
    I do believe that you are the only person in the discussion that doesn't have a problem w TM and or the Platinum seats.
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said:
    Zod said:
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.


    I also had to sell a pair of GNR tickets a few years ago (bought a better pair).   TM's cut was nasty.    Stubhub was a fair bit cheaper.   If your a person trying to sell an extra pair you already have to ask way above face just to break even :(
    That's another good point. Convenience has definitely come with a cost. It's the same when you're selling stuff on Ebay. Ebay takes their slice, PayPal takes their slice, then you rub your chin a little. 
    I do believe that you are the only person in the discussion that doesn't have a problem w TM and or the Platinum seats.
    Huh? I would encourage you to reread posts by benjs, lerxst, zod, and to some extent dudeman.
  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,868
    edited October 2019
    Zod said:
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.
    Are you able to point me in the direction of where it was proven?  I thought it was a conflict of interest and that it created potential for this to happen.  I hadn't realized it had occured.. would like to know more.

    I do know what promoters will sell tickets directly to brokers for above face to get more money on the tickets (to make more money and pay larger guarantees to the band).   It makes me wonder how TM is going about it.   Directly selling them themselves, or promoter selling the tickets directly to a broker, who then resells via TM.

    I also had to sell a pair of GNR tickets a few years ago (bought a better pair).   TM's cut was nasty.    Stubhub was a fair bit cheaper.   If your a person trying to sell an extra pair you already have to ask way above face just to break even :(
    I have seen on maps the red "resale" dots miraculously change back to blue "regular box office" dots on some shows where they didn't sell at the inflated price and I know a broker pretty well and within that industry (if you watch taht video cutz posted you'll see brokers band together and network) they are aware that Live NAtion/Ticketmaseter pulls all kinds of shenanigans including instantly popping some seats on as resale. There is no way for anyone to know where those resale tix on the Ticketmaster page originated from.
     
    https://nypost.com/2018/09/20/shocking-report-accuses-ticketmaster-of-colluding-with-scalpers/

    The Metallica situation pj144 mentioned:
    https://loudwire.com/metallica-rep-live-nation-scam/

    "The deal gave 40 percent of the resale revenue to Metallica, 40 percent to Live Nation..." Remember Live Nation is Ticketmaster.

    The system is rigged heavily against the average Joe.


    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,808
    dudeman said:
    Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

    Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,808
    Zod said:
    I'm seeing two different things.  There is the act of reselling tickets, but there's also the act of using tiered tickets.

    Reselling, I'm not a fan of, but it's a symptom of the band charging less than what people are willing to pay.   Anytime you charge a price lower than it's value, it creates the opportunity to purchase and sell it for profit (arbitrage).  That's why scalping/reselling has been prevalent for decades.   Face Value is often less than market value.   I'm not a big fan of TM being able to do this directly, and in the process earn multiple service charges and a cut of the resold tickets.   It feels like a conflict of interest.   Alternately, if TM didn't do, someone else would, so it's kind of moot.

    This is where tiered pricing comes in.  Bands/Promoters/TM are trying to figure out how they can retain that money instead of resellers.    Now we have VIP packages, platinum tickets etc.... so that there's always tickets for sale, but for sale at secondary market prices.  You don't need to chance buying reseller tickets when you can buy tickets directly from TM at reseller prices.   TM can adjust the prices of the platinum/vip tickets depending on what demand looks like (just like a scalper would).

    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.

    How do I feel about all this?   Ticket prices have spiraled out of control.   I don't live in a major market so I have to travel for big shows.    I'm not energetic enough to travel for crappy seats, nor am I willing to pay through the nose for good seats to see a band I've already seen a number of times.   Basically if the band is doing the thing that maximizes their revenue, their least likely to get me to come out to the show.

    The bands I do repeat don't use tier pricing (or haven't the last time I saw them).  Foo Fighters, PJ etc...

    If you are going to sell tickets at well below market value (ahem PJ!), I think you need to control those tickets.  If you don't then they'll get absorbed by scalpers.  I thought what PJ did on the 2018 tour was great.   Loads of tickets went to fan club, a bunch to verified fan (which is TM's algorithm for trying to determine your not a reseller).   Those tickets were not easily resold.




    Ahem man, you know that's not true for many of us not grandfathered into the good seats. 
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,808
    pjl44 said:
    cutz said:
    Posted this in 2016:  https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/259338/lawmaker-fighting-ticket-freeze-out-in-name-of-springsteen#latest

    Lawmaker fighting ticket freeze-out in name of Springsteen

    Well, at least ther trying. And Ticket Master wants stronger laws? Ain't they part of the problem too?



    TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — Tens of thousands of fans will crowd into MetLife Stadium three times over the next week to watch Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, some because they acted quickly enough to buy tickets at face value — and others because they were willing to pay more on the secondary market.

    U.S. Rep. Bill Pascrell of New Jersey has been seeking for seven years to solve the frustration shared by most people when they try to buy tickets to popular concerts, Broadway shows and sporting events through Ticketmaster.

    He first introduced the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing Act — called the BOSS Act in homage to Springsteen — in 2009 after the New Jersey rocker complained fans were directed to a website owned by Ticketmaster where tickets were being offered at more than four times their face value.

    The law would crack down on the use of computerized bots used by ticket brokers to snap up tickets, and also force Ticketmaster to disclose exactly how many tickets are on sale for each show to cut down on some of the mystery.

    "This is a disaster. We all know what they're doing. It's the fans vs. the brokers. I stand with the fans," the Democratic lawmaker said. "I'm going to keep on exposing these people and little by little we're getting to the promised land, as Bruce would say."

    ___

    WHY IS IT SO HARD TO BUY TICKETS?

    More than half the tickets for many events are held for industry insiders or otherwise unavailable to the general public, according to a report by New York's attorney general released in January.

    Investigators in Attorney General Eric Schneiderman's office found that third-party brokers resell tickets on sites like StubHub and TicketsNow at average margins of 49 percent above face value and sometimes more than 10 times the price. Some brokers use illegal specialty software, called "ticket bots," to quickly purchase as many desirable tickets as possible for resale at significant markups, they said.

    The report cited a single broker buying 1,012 tickets within one minute to a U2 concert at Madison Square Garden when they went on sale on Dec. 8, 2014, despite the vendor's claim of a four-ticket limit. By day's end, that broker and one other had 15,000 tickets to U2's North American shows.

    Regular concert fans also lose out when tickets are released to artist fan clubs or sold ahead of time to certain credit card holders.

    "The battle is an uphill one for fans. It's obviously galling that you can be first online or be at the box office or the computer terminal and you realize you're closed out of getting tickets and they're already popping up for sale on some secondary site; it's just maddening," said Russ Haven, legislative counsel for the consumer advocacy group NYPIRG.

    ___

    BOSS vs. BOTS

    Pascrell isn't the only member of Congress looking to address the issue. Rep. Marsha Blackburn, a Republican from Tennessee, and Rep. Paul Tonko, a Democrat from New York, introduced the Better Online Ticket Sales Act in April.

    The BOTS act would make the use of the computer hacking software an "unfair and deceptive practice" under the Federal Trade Commission Act.

    Pascrell said that legislation wouldn't deal with the transparency issue he believes needs to be addressed.

    His legislation would also require them to list all-in prices, so people waiting a half-hour just find out if they're getting tickets know exactly how much they'll cost before being surprised at the checkout.

    "I think there's a mounting sense among the ticket-buying public that something has to get done," Haven said. "When that anger will actually translate into political pressure to get something done, I think we're closer to it, but it's still probably going to take more work."

    ___

    WHAT TICKETMASTER SAYS IT'S DOING:

    Ticketmaster says it is "at war with the bots." The company says it wants "stronger laws and greater enforcement to punish those who want to deny real fans the opportunity to get tickets."
    Usually the hair on the back of my neck stands up when people start talking about legislation, but I'm on board with banning bots and transparency on onsale quantities. 

    Banning bots sounds like a false flag. We know bands and promoters directly distribute thousands of tickets per show to resellers.
  • dudeman
    dudeman Posts: 3,159
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dudeman said:
    Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

    Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.
    I have a paper ticket from every show I have seen since 1994. Never cared to use electronic tickets. Don't plan on starting any time soon. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    Lerxst1992 said:
    pjl44 said:
    cutz said:
    Posted this in 2016:  https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/259338/lawmaker-fighting-ticket-freeze-out-in-name-of-springsteen#latest

    Lawmaker fighting ticket freeze-out in name of Springsteen

    Well, at least ther trying. And Ticket Master wants stronger laws? Ain't they part of the problem too?



    TRENTON, N.J. (AP) — Tens of thousands of fans will crowd into MetLife Stadium three times over the next week to watch Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, some because they acted quickly enough to buy tickets at face value — and others because they were willing to pay more on the secondary market.

    U.S. Rep. Bill Pascrell of New Jersey has been seeking for seven years to solve the frustration shared by most people when they try to buy tickets to popular concerts, Broadway shows and sporting events through Ticketmaster.

    He first introduced the Better Oversight of Secondary Sales and Accountability in Concert Ticketing Act — called the BOSS Act in homage to Springsteen — in 2009 after the New Jersey rocker complained fans were directed to a website owned by Ticketmaster where tickets were being offered at more than four times their face value.

    The law would crack down on the use of computerized bots used by ticket brokers to snap up tickets, and also force Ticketmaster to disclose exactly how many tickets are on sale for each show to cut down on some of the mystery.

    "This is a disaster. We all know what they're doing. It's the fans vs. the brokers. I stand with the fans," the Democratic lawmaker said. "I'm going to keep on exposing these people and little by little we're getting to the promised land, as Bruce would say."

    ___

    WHY IS IT SO HARD TO BUY TICKETS?

    More than half the tickets for many events are held for industry insiders or otherwise unavailable to the general public, according to a report by New York's attorney general released in January.

    Investigators in Attorney General Eric Schneiderman's office found that third-party brokers resell tickets on sites like StubHub and TicketsNow at average margins of 49 percent above face value and sometimes more than 10 times the price. Some brokers use illegal specialty software, called "ticket bots," to quickly purchase as many desirable tickets as possible for resale at significant markups, they said.

    The report cited a single broker buying 1,012 tickets within one minute to a U2 concert at Madison Square Garden when they went on sale on Dec. 8, 2014, despite the vendor's claim of a four-ticket limit. By day's end, that broker and one other had 15,000 tickets to U2's North American shows.

    Regular concert fans also lose out when tickets are released to artist fan clubs or sold ahead of time to certain credit card holders.

    "The battle is an uphill one for fans. It's obviously galling that you can be first online or be at the box office or the computer terminal and you realize you're closed out of getting tickets and they're already popping up for sale on some secondary site; it's just maddening," said Russ Haven, legislative counsel for the consumer advocacy group NYPIRG.

    ___

    BOSS vs. BOTS

    Pascrell isn't the only member of Congress looking to address the issue. Rep. Marsha Blackburn, a Republican from Tennessee, and Rep. Paul Tonko, a Democrat from New York, introduced the Better Online Ticket Sales Act in April.

    The BOTS act would make the use of the computer hacking software an "unfair and deceptive practice" under the Federal Trade Commission Act.

    Pascrell said that legislation wouldn't deal with the transparency issue he believes needs to be addressed.

    His legislation would also require them to list all-in prices, so people waiting a half-hour just find out if they're getting tickets know exactly how much they'll cost before being surprised at the checkout.

    "I think there's a mounting sense among the ticket-buying public that something has to get done," Haven said. "When that anger will actually translate into political pressure to get something done, I think we're closer to it, but it's still probably going to take more work."

    ___

    WHAT TICKETMASTER SAYS IT'S DOING:

    Ticketmaster says it is "at war with the bots." The company says it wants "stronger laws and greater enforcement to punish those who want to deny real fans the opportunity to get tickets."
    Usually the hair on the back of my neck stands up when people start talking about legislation, but I'm on board with banning bots and transparency on onsale quantities. 

    Banning bots sounds like a false flag. We know bands and promoters directly distribute thousands of tickets per show to resellers.
    True, but it's 2 different activities. Hell, that one CBC story laid out the TM strategy of allowing the bots to operate. I'm ok with bot-banning and we can talk about that diversion separately. 
  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,868
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dudeman said:
    Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

    Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

    Paper tickets aren't gone...they are dwindling yes, but I still opt for them every time except when not available. That was 2 shows for me...Fenway 2018 PJ 10 club tix, and I ordered the souvenir paper copies later as I (like many here) collect my tickets (stubs in the old days).

    Just had paper tix Saturday night for Deep Purple, face value was printed on them.

    This weekend we rock Portland
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    Poncier said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dudeman said:
    Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

    Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

    Paper tickets aren't gone...they are dwindling yes, but I still opt for them every time except when not available. That was 2 shows for me...Fenway 2018 PJ 10 club tix, and I ordered the souvenir paper copies later as I (like many here) collect my tickets (stubs in the old days).

    Just had paper tix Saturday night for Deep Purple, face value was printed on them.

    Yeah, same here. I can get the same hard tickets for virtually every show I go to. Unless it's one I StubHub. 
  • deadendp
    deadendp Northeast Ohio Posts: 10,434
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dudeman said:
    Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

    Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

    I could swear that these are paper... :wink:
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,359
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said:
    Zod said:
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.


    I also had to sell a pair of GNR tickets a few years ago (bought a better pair).   TM's cut was nasty.    Stubhub was a fair bit cheaper.   If your a person trying to sell an extra pair you already have to ask way above face just to break even :(
    That's another good point. Convenience has definitely come with a cost. It's the same when you're selling stuff on Ebay. Ebay takes their slice, PayPal takes their slice, then you rub your chin a little. 
    I do believe that you are the only person in the discussion that doesn't have a problem w TM and or the Platinum seats.
    Nope. I'm right there with pjl44. Dynamic pricing and high-priced options optimize the amount of revenue that an artist can receive, whereas a fixed price that's below an optimal price will sell out the venue and forfeit potential revenue to the resale market. In both cases roughly the same cumulative revenue can be generated by the market, but a greater percentage of the revenue earned reaches the actual stakeholders and the risk of empty seats can be mitigated with a dynamic pricing model.

    In addition, in a free market like this one, static pricing means that a select few get the best seats in the house way below their market value by fluke at the initial on-sale, but the cumulative amount paid for the best seats in the house is typically way more than that (since someone is buying once at face value, and then someone may re-buy for three times the price).

    In terms of equitable distribution of revenue (either from first sales or resales), with blockchains, there's a logical next step where tickets are 'contracts' and ticket resales proportionally send revenues back to the stakeholders in prescribed ratios and also truly fight the potential of fraudulent tickets. This isn't just guesswork or original thought - Ticketmaster acquired a ticketing blockchain company last year.

    I apologize if I didn't communicate this well - got to love hash :) 
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,520
    benjs said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said:
    Zod said:
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.


    I also had to sell a pair of GNR tickets a few years ago (bought a better pair).   TM's cut was nasty.    Stubhub was a fair bit cheaper.   If your a person trying to sell an extra pair you already have to ask way above face just to break even :(
    That's another good point. Convenience has definitely come with a cost. It's the same when you're selling stuff on Ebay. Ebay takes their slice, PayPal takes their slice, then you rub your chin a little. 
    I do believe that you are the only person in the discussion that doesn't have a problem w TM and or the Platinum seats.
    Nope. I'm right there with pjl44. Dynamic pricing and high-priced options optimize the amount of revenue that an artist can receive, whereas a fixed price that's below an optimal price will sell out the venue and forfeit potential revenue to the resale market. In both cases roughly the same cumulative revenue can be generated by the market, but a greater percentage of the revenue earned reaches the actual stakeholders and the risk of empty seats can be mitigated with a dynamic pricing model.

    In addition, in a free market like this one, static pricing means that a select few get the best seats in the house way below their market value by fluke at the initial on-sale, but the cumulative amount paid for the best seats in the house is typically way more than that (since someone is buying once at face value, and then someone may re-buy for three times the price).

    In terms of equitable distribution of revenue (either from first sales or resales), with blockchains, there's a logical next step where tickets are 'contracts' and ticket resales proportionally send revenues back to the stakeholders in prescribed ratios and also truly fight the potential of fraudulent tickets. This isn't just guesswork or original thought - Ticketmaster acquired a ticketing blockchain company last year.

    I apologize if I didn't communicate this well - got to love hash :) 
    I'm jealous of both your communication skills and stash of hash
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,359
    pjl44 said:
    benjs said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    pjl44 said:
    Zod said:
    Poncier said:
    Zod said:


    As far as I know TM only makes money on service charges.    The prices of the tickets being tiered to maximize revenue benefits the promoter and the band.




    Its been proven that some of the "verified resale" tickets available are just Ticketmaster selling seats above face value, so they don't only make money from service charges.

    And the promoter in the vast majority of cases is Live Nation, who by the way is also Ticketmaster. They merged in 2010.


    I also had to sell a pair of GNR tickets a few years ago (bought a better pair).   TM's cut was nasty.    Stubhub was a fair bit cheaper.   If your a person trying to sell an extra pair you already have to ask way above face just to break even :(
    That's another good point. Convenience has definitely come with a cost. It's the same when you're selling stuff on Ebay. Ebay takes their slice, PayPal takes their slice, then you rub your chin a little. 
    I do believe that you are the only person in the discussion that doesn't have a problem w TM and or the Platinum seats.
    Nope. I'm right there with pjl44. Dynamic pricing and high-priced options optimize the amount of revenue that an artist can receive, whereas a fixed price that's below an optimal price will sell out the venue and forfeit potential revenue to the resale market. In both cases roughly the same cumulative revenue can be generated by the market, but a greater percentage of the revenue earned reaches the actual stakeholders and the risk of empty seats can be mitigated with a dynamic pricing model.

    In addition, in a free market like this one, static pricing means that a select few get the best seats in the house way below their market value by fluke at the initial on-sale, but the cumulative amount paid for the best seats in the house is typically way more than that (since someone is buying once at face value, and then someone may re-buy for three times the price).

    In terms of equitable distribution of revenue (either from first sales or resales), with blockchains, there's a logical next step where tickets are 'contracts' and ticket resales proportionally send revenues back to the stakeholders in prescribed ratios and also truly fight the potential of fraudulent tickets. This isn't just guesswork or original thought - Ticketmaster acquired a ticketing blockchain company last year.

    I apologize if I didn't communicate this well - got to love hash :) 
    I'm jealous of both your communication skills and stash of hash
    You're too kind :) I'm lucky to have a job where I get to practice all the time (communicating, not hash).
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,808
    deadendp said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dudeman said:
    Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

    Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

    I could swear that these are paper... :wink:


    I dont recall getting that option for the Tool shows, but they do look nice!
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,753
    Lerxst1992 said:
    deadendp said:
    Lerxst1992 said:
    dudeman said:
    Why even have face value then? It seems like anymore, buying concert tickets is like an auction. 

    Technically there is no face value anymore. Paper tickets are long gone and the e tickets ive used dont have a price on them.

    I could swear that these are paper... :wink:


    I dont recall getting that option for the Tool shows, but they do look nice!

    I don't believe you had the option for Tool - I think they are electronic tickets only, and won't be delivered until a week or two before the show.

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