Nirvana. Overrated?

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,404
    It would be helpful to understand how those of you feel who have made comments about not caring for Cobain as a person.  Can you explain why?  Did you know him or meet him?  If you did not meet or know him, do you believe you can know much about a person from what you see of them on camera or read in the tabloids?  Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion you've drawn.  What specifically do you dislike about him as a person?
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038
    brianlux said:
    It would be helpful to understand how those of you feel who have made comments about not caring for Cobain as a person.  Can you explain why?  Did you know him or meet him?  If you did not meet or know him, do you believe you can know much about a person from what you see of them on camera or read in the tabloids?  Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion you've drawn.  What specifically do you dislike about him as a person?


    You want clarification on why someone might not be a fan of a guy who was doing heroin around his infant daughter?


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,065
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    Annoying? The guy was quiet lol
    So? Quiet people can be annoying too. Annoying doesn't mean loud.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,203
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    Annoying? The guy was quiet lol
    So? Quiet people can be annoying too. Annoying doesn't mean loud.
    Haha. PJ_Soul at parties hating the shy people. STOP SIPPING THAT PUNCH LOOKING NERVOUSLY AT YOUR PHONE AND SPEAK TO ME YOU ANNOYING PERSON!   :P
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,755
    brianlux said:
    It would be helpful to understand how those of you feel who have made comments about not caring for Cobain as a person.  Can you explain why?  Did you know him or meet him?  If you did not meet or know him, do you believe you can know much about a person from what you see of them on camera or read in the tabloids?  Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion you've drawn.  What specifically do you dislike about him as a person?


    You want clarification on why someone might not be a fan of a guy who was doing heroin around his infant daughter?

    Yeah, why are people even trying to make this a debate?  I figured any reasons why were rather obvious.
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,439
    edited July 2019
    That HBO documentary showed how ugly he and Courtney were. Some bleeding hearts will say “they were sick”, no they made a choice to become addicts. It even says in the documentary he wanted to be an addict. To bring a kid into this world while your in the throws of addiction makes you a fucking horrible person in my book. (This coming from personal experience of being from a family of drug addicts) To forgive him because he played guitar and wrote songs and was famous is ridiculous. He was a gross human being at the end of his life. 

    To clarify. If people want to do drugs and become addicts, that their free choice and good for them. The issue I have is people who are selfish (addiction to me is selfish) should never bring poor kids into the nightmare that is their lives. 
    Post edited by pearljammr78 on
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,203
    That HBO documentary showed how ugly he and Courtney were. Some bleeding hearts will say “they were sick”, no they made a choice to become addicts. It even says in the documentary he wanted to be an addict. To bring a kid into this world while your in the throws of addiction makes you a fucking horrible person in my book. (This coming from personal experience of being from a family of drug addicts) To forgive him because he played guitar and wrote songs and was famous is ridiculous. He was a gross human being at the end of his life. 

    To clarify. If people want to do drugs and become addicts, that their free choice and good for them. The issue I have is people who are selfish (addiction to me is selfish) should never bring poor kids into the nightmare that is their lives. 

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,065
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    Annoying? The guy was quiet lol
    So? Quiet people can be annoying too. Annoying doesn't mean loud.
    Haha. PJ_Soul at parties hating the shy people. STOP SIPPING THAT PUNCH LOOKING NERVOUSLY AT YOUR PHONE AND SPEAK TO ME YOU ANNOYING PERSON!   :P
    :lol: Life of the party, don'tcha know.
    EVERYBODY HAVE FUN!!!!

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    Annoying? The guy was quiet lol
    So? Quiet people can be annoying too. Annoying doesn't mean loud.
    How if they don't talk much? lol
    Quiet people never annoy me. Loud people do.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • rummyrummy Ontario, CanadaPosts: 4,143
    edited July 2019
    I recently read an article where they were grouped with The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zep, Pink Floyd, and The Who (I think). Does that seem justified?
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,758
    Sure
  • rummyrummy Ontario, CanadaPosts: 4,143
    ... but no sign of Pearl Jam. 

    I hate to say it, but I think Nirvana is widely considered the bigger/better band than our boys.
  • rummyrummy Ontario, CanadaPosts: 4,143
    rummy said:
    ... but no sign of Pearl Jam. 

    I hate to say it, but I think Nirvana is widely considered the bigger/better band than our boys.
    I'd like to introduce match to forest (a dried out one).
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    rummy said:
    I recently read an article where they were grouped with The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zep, Pink Floyd, and The Who (I think). Does that seem justified?
    Yes. 
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,404
    brianlux said:
    It would be helpful to understand how those of you feel who have made comments about not caring for Cobain as a person.  Can you explain why?  Did you know him or meet him?  If you did not meet or know him, do you believe you can know much about a person from what you see of them on camera or read in the tabloids?  Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion you've drawn.  What specifically do you dislike about him as a person?


    You want clarification on why someone might not be a fan of a guy who was doing heroin around his infant daughter?

    I don't believe everything I read in the tabloids.  Maybe he did, maybe he shot up in the bathroom or waited until the kid was asleep. 

    And what about musicians who smoke pot in the home or swear in front of their kids or drink excessively or have an affair or don't believe in Jesus.  Holy shit!  Now we have to stop liking a whole shit load of artists!
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,404
    rummy said:
    I recently read an article where they were grouped with The Beatles, The Stones, Led Zep, Pink Floyd, and The Who (I think). Does that seem justified?
    I think so.  I agree that Pearl Jam should be in there too, but not at the omission of Nirvana.   I would also add The Beach Boys and Jimi Hendrix.  Others would argue that AC/DC, Queen, Fleetwood Mac and others should be included.  My own take is that the biggest band were The Beach Boys, The Beatles and the Stones.  After that, everyone else to varying degrees.  In my own head, Dinosaur Jr are among the best and where are they mentioned?  It's all a matter of taste.  But one thing I know for sure- Nirvana were bigger than Dinosaur Jr.

    But not louder.  :lol:


    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    It would be helpful to understand how those of you feel who have made comments about not caring for Cobain as a person.  Can you explain why?  Did you know him or meet him?  If you did not meet or know him, do you believe you can know much about a person from what you see of them on camera or read in the tabloids?  Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion you've drawn.  What specifically do you dislike about him as a person?


    You want clarification on why someone might not be a fan of a guy who was doing heroin around his infant daughter?

    I don't believe everything I read in the tabloids.  Maybe he did, maybe he shot up in the bathroom or waited until the kid was asleep. 

    And what about musicians who smoke pot in the home or swear in front of their kids or drink excessively or have an affair or don't believe in Jesus.  Holy shit!  Now we have to stop liking a whole shit load of artists!

    It's good that you don't believe everything you read in tabloids, as they're not known to be reputable. I can't speak for what's written in them, I don't read them.  

    There's a widely held public perception that Kurt & Courtney were active heroin users around their child. Courtney admitting to shooting up while pregnant (even if it was only once), and the aforementioned video of Kurt nodding off while holding the baby do little to refute that perception. I'm comfortable believing it to be true based on the information available to us.

    I think comparing the use of hard drugs in front of / around a child to swearing or not believing in Jesus is ridiculous, do you really equate those things?

    Regarding the other examples, yes... if someone consumes excessive amounts of pot or alcohol in front of a child, or cheats on a spouse, then I'm going to think less of that person. Does this make me judgmental? Maybe, but I'm ok with that.

    I was 15 in '92 when I first started listening to Nirvana, and like so many other grunge bands, they were a big part of my high school years. After reading Heavier than Heaven and watching some of Montage of Heck, I was turned off of Kurt Cobain the person, but I never won't appreciate the music that saw me through my teenage years. 


  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,439
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    It would be helpful to understand how those of you feel who have made comments about not caring for Cobain as a person.  Can you explain why?  Did you know him or meet him?  If you did not meet or know him, do you believe you can know much about a person from what you see of them on camera or read in the tabloids?  Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion you've drawn.  What specifically do you dislike about him as a person?


    You want clarification on why someone might not be a fan of a guy who was doing heroin around his infant daughter?

    I don't believe everything I read in the tabloids.  Maybe he did, maybe he shot up in the bathroom or waited until the kid was asleep. 

    And what about musicians who smoke pot in the home or swear in front of their kids or drink excessively or have an affair or don't believe in Jesus.  Holy shit!  Now we have to stop liking a whole shit load of artists!
    Shooting up in the bathroom makes it ok? 

    Heroin and pot in the same vein. What is this the US federal government. Schedule 1 drugs here. 

    Finally, I don’t believe in Jesus either. Does that make me a bad father. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • Attaway77Attaway77 Petoskey, MIPosts: 1,721
    Yo!!!! Let’s keep focus. That’s why threads get locked down cause people start going off path on the topic at hand. Question was, is Nirvana overrated, not Kurt’s personal life/decisions. If this thread was meant to involve all of it, then change the title. My understating it was about Nirvana the band, not one man...
    Dallas 7/5/98, San Francisco 7/15/06, 7/16/06, San Francisco 8/28/09 (OL) Bristow 5/13/10, New York 5/21/10, East Troy 9/3/11-9/4/11 (PJ20), Missoula 9/30/12, Chicago 7/19/13 (Wrigley), Pittsburgh 10/11/13, Buffalo 10/12/13, Baltimore 10/27/13, Dallas 11/15/13, Austin 10/12/14 (ACL), Memphis 10/14/14, St. Paul 10/19/14, Milwaukee 10/20/14, Denver 10/22/14, Fort Lauderdale 4/8/16, Miami 4/9/16, Hampton 4/18/16, Philly 4/28/16, 4/29/16, New York 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Seattle 8/10/18 (Safeco), Missoula 8/13/18
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  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,439

    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,439
    Nirvana=overrated 
    Cobain=overrated

    its just simple math. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,203
    Nirvana=overrated 
    Cobain=overrated

    its just simple math. 
    Nope. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038
    edited July 2019
     pearljammr78 said:
    Nirvana=overrated 
    Cobain=overrated

    its just simple math. 

    Your math suuuuccckkksss. :D
    Post edited by Merkin Baller on

  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,758
    Time to go back to school

  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038
    Time to go back to school


    NO RECESS

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,404
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    It would be helpful to understand how those of you feel who have made comments about not caring for Cobain as a person.  Can you explain why?  Did you know him or meet him?  If you did not meet or know him, do you believe you can know much about a person from what you see of them on camera or read in the tabloids?  Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion you've drawn.  What specifically do you dislike about him as a person?


    You want clarification on why someone might not be a fan of a guy who was doing heroin around his infant daughter?

    I don't believe everything I read in the tabloids.  Maybe he did, maybe he shot up in the bathroom or waited until the kid was asleep. 

    And what about musicians who smoke pot in the home or swear in front of their kids or drink excessively or have an affair or don't believe in Jesus.  Holy shit!  Now we have to stop liking a whole shit load of artists!

    It's good that you don't believe everything you read in tabloids, as they're not known to be reputable. I can't speak for what's written in them, I don't read them.  

    There's a widely held public perception that Kurt & Courtney were active heroin users around their child. Courtney admitting to shooting up while pregnant (even if it was only once), and the aforementioned video of Kurt nodding off while holding the baby do little to refute that perception. I'm comfortable believing it to be true based on the information available to us.

    I think comparing the use of hard drugs in front of / around a child to swearing or not believing in Jesus is ridiculous, do you really equate those things?

    Regarding the other examples, yes... if someone consumes excessive amounts of pot or alcohol in front of a child, or cheats on a spouse, then I'm going to think less of that person. Does this make me judgmental? Maybe, but I'm ok with that.

    I was 15 in '92 when I first started listening to Nirvana, and like so many other grunge bands, they were a big part of my high school years. After reading Heavier than Heaven and watching some of Montage of Heck, I was turned off of Kurt Cobain the person, but I never won't appreciate the music that saw me through my teenage years. 

    I don't, but some people do. 

    What I'm trying to say is that I don't pass judgement on people I don't know.  I love Dinosaur Jr. but for all I know, J Mascis might be the world's biggest asshole (I doubt it!), but his private life is none of my concern.  I love the music, but I don't know the man and am not going to say, "I can't stand that guy".   After all, what do we REALLY know about people we don't know that you hear stuff about?  And if you are judgemental about people you don't know, that's your business.  I'm not passing judgement on you.  Like Clint Conley sings in Mission Of Burma's "Academy Fight Song" says, "I'm not judging you/ I'm judging me."
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    It would be helpful to understand how those of you feel who have made comments about not caring for Cobain as a person.  Can you explain why?  Did you know him or meet him?  If you did not meet or know him, do you believe you can know much about a person from what you see of them on camera or read in the tabloids?  Just curious as to how you come to the conclusion you've drawn.  What specifically do you dislike about him as a person?


    You want clarification on why someone might not be a fan of a guy who was doing heroin around his infant daughter?

    I don't believe everything I read in the tabloids.  Maybe he did, maybe he shot up in the bathroom or waited until the kid was asleep. 

    And what about musicians who smoke pot in the home or swear in front of their kids or drink excessively or have an affair or don't believe in Jesus.  Holy shit!  Now we have to stop liking a whole shit load of artists!

    It's good that you don't believe everything you read in tabloids, as they're not known to be reputable. I can't speak for what's written in them, I don't read them.  

    There's a widely held public perception that Kurt & Courtney were active heroin users around their child. Courtney admitting to shooting up while pregnant (even if it was only once), and the aforementioned video of Kurt nodding off while holding the baby do little to refute that perception. I'm comfortable believing it to be true based on the information available to us.

    I think comparing the use of hard drugs in front of / around a child to swearing or not believing in Jesus is ridiculous, do you really equate those things?

    Regarding the other examples, yes... if someone consumes excessive amounts of pot or alcohol in front of a child, or cheats on a spouse, then I'm going to think less of that person. Does this make me judgmental? Maybe, but I'm ok with that.

    I was 15 in '92 when I first started listening to Nirvana, and like so many other grunge bands, they were a big part of my high school years. After reading Heavier than Heaven and watching some of Montage of Heck, I was turned off of Kurt Cobain the person, but I never won't appreciate the music that saw me through my teenage years. 

    I don't, but some people do. 

    What I'm trying to say is that I don't pass judgement on people I don't know.  I love Dinosaur Jr. but for all I know, J Mascis might be the world's biggest asshole (I doubt it!), but his private life is none of my concern.  I love the music, but I don't know the man and am not going to say, "I can't stand that guy".   After all, what do we REALLY know about people we don't know that you hear stuff about?  And if you are judgemental about people you don't know, that's your business.  I'm not passing judgement on you.  Like Clint Conley sings in Mission Of Burma's "Academy Fight Song" says, "I'm not judging you/ I'm judging me."


    Yeah, judgmental or not, I can't not find Love's admission of what she did while pregnant repugnant. I can't un-see the video of Cobain from Montage of Heck, and those things are going to influence my opinion of them as people. I think it's important to note these aren't rumors or here say. They are actual things that happened, not tabloid BS.

    There are plenty of musicians I appreciate who I don't think I would want to have a beer with (Mike Patton, Maynard James Keenan, Josh Hommes to name a few) and that's ok. People are who they are. I'm really only interested in their art.

    But when there's a kid involved and there are things are going on that we know were going on with Kurt & Courtney, I'm going to end up forming a negative opinion of them. It's how I'm wired. If that makes me judgmental then so be it. I've been called worse.


    Sorry OP, didn't mean to derail.


  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,374
    I think if we are comparing them with Zeppelin, The Who, Beatles, Stones, and Floyd, etc.... that is a HUGE overrating of the music and induces laughter.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,065
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    Annoying? The guy was quiet lol
    So? Quiet people can be annoying too. Annoying doesn't mean loud.
    How if they don't talk much? lol
    Quiet people never annoy me. Loud people do.
    K.
    Cobain wasn't annoying to me because of how much or little he talked. He was annoying to me because he was a grown man acting like he belonged on the cover of Teen Angst Magazine.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,758
    Why would it make you laugh?
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