Nirvana. Overrated?

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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,553
    edited July 21
    People putting PJs over Nirvanas, AiCs or Neil Youngs are in a blind fandom-mode and cant be taken serious. 

    And dont forget maddafakkin Catman himself Peter and beamed-down-from-the-stars SpaceAce showed up as a surprise at the KISS one. 


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • ZodZod Posts: 6,173
    DewieCox said:
    You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

    Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

    The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

    Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 
    I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

    I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 3,350
    Zod said:
    DewieCox said:
    You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

    Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

    The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

    Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 
    I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

    I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.
    I don’t disagree with this take. 

  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 11,794
    PJ’s unplugged was rushed and right after a long Euro trip.  They had barely been a band a year at that point if that.  Nirvana and AIC’s were at the end of their time as a band so they were more cohesive.

    Vedder’s voice and energy were the star of PJ’s Unplugged session, but AIC and Nirvana are the cream of the crop for rock bands.  
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,006
    I like AIC's unplugged better than nirvana's.  Nirvanas is much better known and legendary.  Im actually not a huge fan of pearl jam's
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 9,882
    Zod said:
    DewieCox said:
    You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

    Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

    The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

    Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 
    I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

    I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.
    I don’t disagree with this take. 

    That’s sorta what I mean. I think an artist that mentions them as an influence has often used that influence in a deeper and more meaningful manner. It’s something that would lead bands down a different path on a song, an album or even their whole career.

    I barely consider myself a fan and I’ve listened to their peers about 1000x more but they reset the game.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 3,350
    OTOH, if you consider Stone’s comment about Kurt in PJ20, he said something to the effect of Kurt keeping PJ grounded and in check during those early years... there’s also the story of Eddie Van Halen drunk and in tears backstage at a Nirvana show begging to be allowed to join them on stage, only to be rejected by Kurt. 

    They had a HUGE influence on bands at the time, and I think their shadow looms large to this day. 

    I think their legacy is well deserved. 

  • hrd2imgnhrd2imgn Southwest Burbs of ChicagoPosts: 4,083
    edited July 22
    It doesn't matter how  good they were, only how good people think they were, as that is their legacy.  I don't think overrated is the word, maybe over appreciated?  Nirvana kicked the door open for all the other Seattle bands no one cared about until Smells Like Teen Spirit.  I dont think Pearl Jam, AIC, Soundgarden a little, get any mainstream attention in the early 90s without  Nirvana leading the charge, intentional or not.  SLTS was the song that killed hair metal which had deteriorated  into a joke and cliche. Then the rest swept in and kicked the corpse repeatedly.

    Now that all said Pearl Jam really was the alternative of the alternatives.  I remeber to this day evenflow the first time in 91.   It was like a Jon Snow breath from under the pile of corpses.   It was so different than the other stuff, even Nirvana, Soundgarden, AIC et all.  I just don't think any of the Seattle bands make it big without Nirvana breaking the glass.

    At least that is my experience in the early  90s in the midwest.  This is not saying any of those bands were not good  either. 
    Post edited by hrd2imgn on
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  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,604
    you can never take away the greatness of Nevermind and the effect it had.  Unplugged was great. I loved both Ten and Nevermind and played both pretty consistently at the time. But to me VS. blew away In Utero and is what landed me so much more in the PJ camp.  Even if Kurt hadn't killed himself they were destined to implode anyway.  Don't think Dave Grohl was long for the band.
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 13,589
    I don't know why some of you keep referring to influential as other bands sounding similar.
    Nirvana influenced musicians to go for it, that anyone with a guitar and a voice could make music, even if it does not sound like Nirvana.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,554
    pjhawks said:
    you can never take away the greatness of Nevermind and the effect it had.  Unplugged was great. I loved both Ten and Nevermind and played both pretty consistently at the time. But to me VS. blew away In Utero and is what landed me so much more in the PJ camp.  Even if Kurt hadn't killed himself they were destined to implode anyway.  Don't think Dave Grohl was long for the band.
    I’m in this camp!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 19,648
    Kurt Cobain is the best lyricist of the 90s after Tori Amos. 
    Ummm Beck Hanson?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 19,648
    Zod said:
    DewieCox said:
    You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

    Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

    The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

    Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 
    I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

    I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.
    They influenced the whole music industry.  They made the term "Alternative" an all encompassing genre.

    You'll find a lot of influences in the more recent bands that are around.

    Hell, Teen Spirit lyrics are even in a modern day rap song by some dude named Jay Z.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 3,350
    Zod said:
    DewieCox said:
    You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

    Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

    The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

    Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 
    I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

    I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.
    They influenced the whole music industry.  They made the term "Alternative" an all encompassing genre.

    You'll find a lot of influences in the more recent bands that are around.

    Hell, Teen Spirit lyrics are even in a modern day rap song by some dude named Jay Z.


    I'm going to contradict myself, because earlier I said I didn't disagree with @Zod's take, but the more I think about it, I do disagree with it:

    In addition to Stone's comments from PJ20 and the Eddie Van Halen story, there's also the scene from the HBO documentary The Defiant Ones where Dr. Dre is cranking Breed & goes on to talk about how much admiration he has for Cobain and what he was able to accomplish.

    Nirvana was influential AF and turned the whole industry on their ear. You can argue that if it wasn't them it would have been someone else to kick the door open for alternative, but it WAS them, and as a result, they'll always be that band.


  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 9,882
    Zod said:
    DewieCox said:
    You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

    Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

    The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

    Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 
    I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

    I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.
    They influenced the whole music industry.  They made the term "Alternative" an all encompassing genre.

    You'll find a lot of influences in the more recent bands that are around.

    Hell, Teen Spirit lyrics are even in a modern day rap song by some dude named Jay Z.


    I'm going to contradict myself, because earlier I said I didn't disagree with @Zod's take, but the more I think about it, I do disagree with it:

    In addition to Stone's comments from PJ20 and the Eddie Van Halen story, there's also the scene from the HBO documentary The Defiant Ones where Dr. Dre is cranking Breed & goes on to talk about how much admiration he has for Cobain and what he was able to accomplish.

    Nirvana was influential AF and turned the whole industry on their ear. You can argue that if it wasn't them it would have been someone else to kick the door open for alternative, but it WAS them, and as a result, they'll always be that band.


    I’m not sure anybody would’ve kicked the door down the way they did. 
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 19,648
    Holy Shit that was good!
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,006
    Nirvana was a much needed transition from the straight-forward 'party rock' of the Foreigners, Motley Crues, GnR, Bon Jovi, Van Halens, Poisons,  etc into a new age/sounds.  It caught and changed most of the rock crowd.  Nevermind is an absolute 'before' and 'after' lynchpin.

    But now, I don't really have Nirvana on my regular rotation anymore.  Im not sure the tracks are as timeless as, say The Doors who were my experience of growing up hearing a bad who pre-dated me but ended prematurely


  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,706
    I loved them as a teenager.  Now I go back and listen and it's no wonder my parents thought I was on drugs in high school.  Aside from Nevermind, their shit is just flat out unlistenable.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 19,648
    I loved them as a teenager.  Now I go back and listen and it's no wonder my parents thought I was on drugs in high school.  Aside from Nevermind, their shit is just flat out unlistenable.
    No.  YOU ARE unlistenable!!!!
    https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/266838/the-you-are-thread#latest
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,553
    I loved them as a teenager.  Now I go back and listen and it's no wonder my parents thought I was on drugs in high school.  Aside from Nevermind, their shit is just flat out unlistenable.
    In Utero > Nevermind
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 14,706
    I loved them as a teenager.  Now I go back and listen and it's no wonder my parents thought I was on drugs in high school.  Aside from Nevermind, their shit is just flat out unlistenable.
    In Utero > Nevermind
    Not in my book.  Not by a longshot.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 19,648
    I loved them as a teenager.  Now I go back and listen and it's no wonder my parents thought I was on drugs in high school.  Aside from Nevermind, their shit is just flat out unlistenable.
    In Utero > Nevermind
    I agree w u here.  You are way off on your Metallica Albums assessment though.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,553
    I loved them as a teenager.  Now I go back and listen and it's no wonder my parents thought I was on drugs in high school.  Aside from Nevermind, their shit is just flat out unlistenable.
    In Utero > Nevermind
    I agree w u here.  You are way off on your Metallica Albums assessment though.
    Haha. Remove those trashmetal glasses.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 536
    Zod said:
    DewieCox said:
    You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

    Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

    The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

    Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 
    I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

    I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.
    They influenced the whole music industry.  They made the term "Alternative" an all encompassing genre.

    You'll find a lot of influences in the more recent bands that are around.

    Hell, Teen Spirit lyrics are even in a modern day rap song by some dude named Jay Z.


    I'm going to contradict myself, because earlier I said I didn't disagree with @Zod's take, but the more I think about it, I do disagree with it:

    In addition to Stone's comments from PJ20 and the Eddie Van Halen story, there's also the scene from the HBO documentary The Defiant Ones where Dr. Dre is cranking Breed & goes on to talk about how much admiration he has for Cobain and what he was able to accomplish.

    Nirvana was influential AF and turned the whole industry on their ear. You can argue that if it wasn't them it would have been someone else to kick the door open for alternative, but it WAS them, and as a result, they'll always be that band.

    On a side note. That documentary The Defiant Ones was god damn awesome. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 536
    I loved them as a teenager.  Now I go back and listen and it's no wonder my parents thought I was on drugs in high school.  Aside from Nevermind, their shit is just flat out unlistenable.
    In Utero > Nevermind
    I agree fully. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 536
    edited July 22
    Can’t we all just agree that the best album Kurt Cobain ever wrote was Hole-Live Through This.  ;)
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • goldrushgoldrush everybody knows this is nowherePosts: 4,622
    I haven’t listened to Nevermind in forever. I loved it when I was a teenager in the 90s but it sounds a little dated now imo.

    However, I can’t deny that when I was watching Captain Marvel in the cinema and Come As You Are started playing, a huge ‘fuck yeah’ grin appeared on my face. It sounded awesome through a big ass movie theatre sound system.
    “Do not postpone happiness”
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  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 13,589
    To me Nevermind still sounds fresh as it was in 1991.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
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