Nirvana. Overrated?

DewieCox

Zod said:

I think Nirvana's mix of punk and rock, and playing it hard was pretty refreshing in the early 90s.   Went from hair metal to that, it was definitely a change of pace.  It's when people call Nirvana influential I take issue.  What did they influence?  Most of the post grunge bands were more water down version of PJ trying to copy Eddie's vocals from Ten. 

They are massively influential. They immediately changed the entire rock scene and what could become popular in the genre. Tons of more recent acts outside of rock have cited them as a huge inspiration. 

It feels like you’re trying to make the argument that PJ is more influential and I’ve probably made that claim in a fit of PJ induced madness but it’s completely absurd. 

Zod

DewieCox said:

Zod said:

I think Nirvana's mix of punk and rock, and playing it hard was pretty refreshing in the early 90s.   Went from hair metal to that, it was definitely a change of pace.  It's when people call Nirvana influential I take issue.  What did they influence?  Most of the post grunge bands were more water down version of PJ trying to copy Eddie's vocals from Ten. 

They are massively influential. They immediately changed the entire rock scene and what could become popular in the genre. Tons of more recent acts outside of rock have cited them as a huge inspiration. 

It feels like you’re trying to make the argument that PJ is more influential and I’ve probably made that claim in a fit of PJ induced madness but it’s completely absurd. 

I still don't agree.  Everything after Nirvana got more and more polished.   I don't recall too many bands that tried to replicate that raw sound they had.  To me influential means that other bands take what you did and turn it into their own thing.   You can hear the influences in the music.   I never felt I heard much Nirvana influence in the music that came out after the grunge era.   People might say they liked Nirvana when they were young and it inspired them to play, but I don't hear it in their music.

I would make that argument independent of the other one I made.

pearljammr78

I can’t think of a band where I could directly hear the Nirvana influence. Pearl Jam’s influence I could definitely hear in many bands after they broke. Not that those bands were any good and to be honest were absolutely horrible. But it was there. 

Nirvana quickly changed what was popular in music at the time and I’m sure many people gravitated towards starting a band. It’s just those who made it and credit Nirvana for influencing them sound nothing like Nirvana. Usually it’s someone in a completely different genre than rock. And most of the time I believe they just name drop to sound cool. 

eeriepadave

willbarclay said:

Nirvana is not my cup of tea at all. Couple songs are ok. Not something I could see myself listening to when I’m 64 

Not even Pennyroyal Tea?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16R8njf0a74

MayDay10

pearljammr78 said:

I don’t wanna downplay the movement they caused. I’m just saying as a band, they don’t seem to be as timeless as others from the same time range for listening. Making them overrated in my eyes. 

I agree with this.  Loved nirvana, and they were the main catalyst for the last music revolution as of now.  They also spun off one of the biggest rock acts of the last 20 years.

Other than the unplugged album, i dont think a lot of the music has aged that well.  Alice in Chains as a comparable has aged like fine wine.  I never find myself popping in a nirvana album.  Some contemporaries continue to make fine music as well: primus, rhcp, pearl jam... 

Im not sure they are overrated though?  Are they really "rated" that highly?

Merkin Baller

Nirvana was amazing. 
I don’t disagree that there was a little bit of “right place at the right time” thing going on there, but their sound was fantastic, and Kurt knew how to write a pop hit. He just made it sound badass.

Not to mention their Unplugged is a friggin’ masterpiece. 

No, I don’t think they are overrated at all. 

pearljammr78

I do love the Nirvana unplugged album but it’s the covers they do that really stick with me. Plus I would put Alice In Chains and Pearl Jam’s unplugged performances way above Nirvanas. Alice In Chains is breathtakingly good. And the force that PJ brought to theirs is spine chilling greatness. 

manitouman

pearljammr78 said:

I do love the Nirvana unplugged album but it’s the covers they do that really stick with me. Plus I would put Alice In Chains and Pearl Jam’s unplugged performances way above Nirvanas. Alice In Chains is breathtakingly good. And the force that PJ brought to theirs is spine chilling greatness. 

^^^ totally agree

DewieCox

You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 

Merkin Baller

Agree w/ Dewie Cox... I loved AIC & PJ’s unplugged, but I don’t think either can touch Nirvana’s. 

Spiritual_Chaos

People putting PJs over Nirvanas, AiCs or Neil Youngs are in a blind fandom-mode and cant be taken serious. 

And dont forget maddafakkin Catman himself Peter and beamed-down-from-the-stars SpaceAce showed up as a surprise at the KISS one. 

Zod

DewieCox said:

You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 

I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.

Merkin Baller

Zod said:

DewieCox said:

You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 

I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.

I don’t disagree with this take. 

bootlegger10

PJ’s unplugged was rushed and right after a long Euro trip.  They had barely been a band a year at that point if that.  Nirvana and AIC’s were at the end of their time as a band so they were more cohesive.

Vedder’s voice and energy were the star of PJ’s Unplugged session, but AIC and Nirvana are the cream of the crop for rock bands.  

MayDay10

I like AIC's unplugged better than nirvana's.  Nirvanas is much better known and legendary.  Im actually not a huge fan of pearl jam's

DewieCox

Merkin Baller said:

Zod said:

DewieCox said:

You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 

I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.

I don’t disagree with this take. 

That’s sorta what I mean. I think an artist that mentions them as an influence has often used that influence in a deeper and more meaningful manner. It’s something that would lead bands down a different path on a song, an album or even their whole career.

I barely consider myself a fan and I’ve listened to their peers about 1000x more but they reset the game.

Merkin Baller

OTOH, if you consider Stone’s comment about Kurt in PJ20, he said something to the effect of Kurt keeping PJ grounded and in check during those early years... there’s also the story of Eddie Van Halen drunk and in tears backstage at a Nirvana show begging to be allowed to join them on stage, only to be rejected by Kurt. 

They had a HUGE influence on bands at the time, and I think their shadow looms large to this day. 

I think their legacy is well deserved. 

hrd2imgn

It doesn't matter how  good they were, only how good people think they were, as that is their legacy.  I don't think overrated is the word, maybe over appreciated?  Nirvana kicked the door open for all the other Seattle bands no one cared about until Smells Like Teen Spirit.  I dont think Pearl Jam, AIC, Soundgarden a little, get any mainstream attention in the early 90s without  Nirvana leading the charge, intentional or not.  SLTS was the song that killed hair metal which had deteriorated  into a joke and cliche. Then the rest swept in and kicked the corpse repeatedly.

Now that all said Pearl Jam really was the alternative of the alternatives.  I remeber to this day evenflow the first time in 91.   It was like a Jon Snow breath from under the pile of corpses.   It was so different than the other stuff, even Nirvana, Soundgarden, AIC et all.  I just don't think any of the Seattle bands make it big without Nirvana breaking the glass.

At least that is my experience in the early  90s in the midwest.  This is not saying any of those bands were not good  either. 

pjhawks

you can never take away the greatness of Nevermind and the effect it had.  Unplugged was great. I loved both Ten and Nevermind and played both pretty consistently at the time. But to me VS. blew away In Utero and is what landed me so much more in the PJ camp.  Even if Kurt hadn't killed himself they were destined to implode anyway.  Don't think Dave Grohl was long for the band.

Thoughts_Arrive

I don't know why some of you keep referring to influential as other bands sounding similar.
Nirvana influenced musicians to go for it, that anyone with a guitar and a voice could make music, even if it does not sound like Nirvana.