Nirvana. Overrated?

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  • ZodZod Posts: 7,049
    edited July 2019
    Zod said:
    DewieCox said:
    You guys have to be joking right? Nirvana’s Unplugged has proven to be the quintessential of the era. AIC’s is quite a thing to witness and really highlighted how much depth their music has and PJ is great but offers nothing beyond a great band playing great songs. Nirvana’s was a perfect display of why they’re still the most celebrated band of the early 90s. 

    Nirvanas influence isn’t just a surface aping of certain aspects, though that happened plenty too, but completely changed the landscape on the arrival of Nevermind and their approach embedded into the culture and was felt for generations after.

    The only other early 90s band they comes close is Alice In Chains. Quite a few bands grabbed onto the downtuned, harmonized, dark subject matter and it inspired some pretty decent bands. 

    Pearl Jam’s effect on any musically stylistic choices was delegated the the near immediate aftermath and has had virtually no lasting impact. 
    I agree a lot with what you say... just struggle with the influence one.   The tangent of music that Nirvana put the spotlight on lasted about 4 or 5 years.   Then the world forgot.   Some musicians say they are influenced by them, but you can't hear it. 

    I love Nirvana's music, especially the more raw stuff.   I only argue that their biggest contribution was the spotlight they put on rock music in the early 90s.  Long term wise, rock music started to die after the early 90s.  All the watered down safe rock kind of killed it.   Not really a legacy in the wake of Nirvana.
    They influenced the whole music industry.  They made the term "Alternative" an all encompassing genre.

    You'll find a lot of influences in the more recent bands that are around.

    Hell, Teen Spirit lyrics are even in a modern day rap song by some dude named Jay Z.


    I'm going to contradict myself, because earlier I said I didn't disagree with @Zod's take, but the more I think about it, I do disagree with it:

    In addition to Stone's comments from PJ20 and the Eddie Van Halen story, there's also the scene from the HBO documentary The Defiant Ones where Dr. Dre is cranking Breed & goes on to talk about how much admiration he has for Cobain and what he was able to accomplish.

    Nirvana was influential AF and turned the whole industry on their ear. You can argue that if it wasn't them it would have been someone else to kick the door open for alternative, but it WAS them, and as a result, they'll always be that band.

    I can't argue that's not true,  I guess by influential I was thinking more long term.  They got the spotlight on them, and thus the early 90's rock movement, but it was a very short spotlight.  By the time we got past the mid 90's, radio started to get pacified, and we were getting watered down radio friendly rock bands.   Then rock itself lost that gas that Nirvana had and has never recovered.   I guess when I hear the term influential, I'm thinking long term.    Like how many of the 90's bands were influenced by rock bands of the 60s/70s.   Led Zeppelin, The Who, The Doors, The Beatles, KISS, Hendrix, etc....

    I wish there was another word for got the spotlight on you.  I don't feel influential is quite the word I want to describe it with.  They got the world's attention.  I need a better synonym :)  Then again, maybe if people's parents played them a lot of Nirvana growing up, we'll see resurgence of that raw kind of music.    Problem is, when I listen to radio, Nirvana gets the least air play of the big four seattle bands... I always thought that was odd....

    Maybe inspiring... Nirvana was an inspiring bands.  They inspired a lot of people to play but maybe didn't influence how they played..
    Post edited by Zod on
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    I see young kids at university wearing Nirvana t-shirts and adopting the grunge look. I'd say they are still influential.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,203
    I see young kids at university wearing Nirvana t-shirts and adopting the grunge look. I'd say they are still influential.
    Ask them What their favorite album is. 

    Nirvana let their logo and images of Kurt be sold at e.g H&M. Same with Guns N Roses. 

    I would think alot of people just wear it as a cool design without knowing much. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • goldrushgoldrush everybody knows this is nowherePosts: 5,022
    edited July 2019
    I see young kids at university wearing Nirvana t-shirts and adopting the grunge look. I'd say they are still influential.
    Ask them What their favorite album is. 

    Nirvana let their logo and images of Kurt be sold at e.g H&M. Same with Guns N Roses. 

    I would think alot of people just wear it as a cool design without knowing much. 
    Like the thousands of Ramones shirts that you see everywhere. I'd be very surprised if half of the people wearing them knew who the Ramones were.
    Post edited by goldrush on
    “Do not postpone happiness”
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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,203
    edited July 2019
    goldrush said:
    I see young kids at university wearing Nirvana t-shirts and adopting the grunge look. I'd say they are still influential.
    Ask them What their favorite album is. 

    Nirvana let their logo and images of Kurt be sold at e.g H&M. Same with Guns N Roses. 

    I would think alot of people just wear it as a cool design without knowing much. 
    Like the thousands of Ramones shirts that you see everywhere. I'd be very surprised if half of the people wearing them knew who the Ramones were.
    That's what's good about Pearl Jam, if a knockout beautiful girl/guy at the other end of the bar wear a Pearl Jam shirt. You can be pretty certain that there is a reason for it*.


    * Not counting Justin Bieber in his No Code tshirt.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    Yeah the same thing happens here, I see so many band shirts and I wonder if people know who the bands are.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 10,374
    Target sells nirvana shirts.  Both my toddlers had them.
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 15,678
    edited July 2019
    Can’t we all just agree that the best album Kurt Cobain ever wrote was Hole-Live Through This.  ;)
    I agree that Live Through This is better than any Nirvana studio album, but I think it's complete and utter bullshit to give Kurt Cobain credit for writing it. 
    Post edited by dankind on
    I SAW PEARL JAM
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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038
    Lol

  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 24,222
    Can’t we all just agree that the best album Kurt Cobain ever wrote was Hole-Live Through This.  ;)
    Good one!!!
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 15,678
    Can’t we all just agree that the best album Kurt Cobain ever wrote was Hole-Live Through This.  ;)
    Good one!!!
    Yeah. And Stanley Kubrick shot the moon landing on a soundstage.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • dankind said:
    Can’t we all just agree that the best album Kurt Cobain ever wrote was Hole-Live Through This.  ;)
    Good one!!!
    Yeah. And Stanley Kubrick shot the moon landing on a soundstage.

  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,439
    I love Live Through This. Great album. I spin that more than any Nirvana album but that was a rumor that Kurt wrote it. And I don’t know who filmed it but I do believe the moon landing was faked. But we will never know for sure. 

    Side note. That documentary that HBO did about Kurt I forget what it was called but the scene where he is nodding out while holding Francis and Courtney is laughing that he’s on drugs still makes me sick to this day. If only she could have died with Kurt. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,203
    I love Live Through This. Great album. I spin that more than any Nirvana album but that was a rumor that Kurt wrote it. And I don’t know who filmed it but I do believe the moon landing was faked. But we will never know for sure. 

    Side note. That documentary that HBO did about Kurt I forget what it was called but the scene where he is nodding out while holding Francis and Courtney is laughing that he’s on drugs still makes me sick to this day. If only she could have died with Kurt. 
    You mean Montage of Heck? That was quite the experience in the cinema. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,439
    I think so. Was a good documentary but parts were hard to watch. His addiction consumed him. Sad. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038

    I watched maybe 1/3 of Montage of Heck and turned it off.

    Not for me.


  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,439
    Yea. It’s a tough watch. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • northerndragonnortherndragon somewhere, nowhere, anywherePosts: 9,703
    Super overrated. As in very very overrated. But I knew this back in the early nineties as well. 
    Anything you lose from being honest
    You never really had to begin with.


    Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,065
    edited July 2019
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,439
    I think you could be right about that. And look how much the changed when Dave G joined the band. And all the hits that Dave still writes with the Foo Fighters, I think he is the most talented person to come from Nirvana 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 31,404
    Kurt knew so much of the hoopla was bullshit.  Probably had a lot to do with his death.  Sad really.  Major stardom sucks.  I thinks that's why a guy like J Mascis lays low with the press, etc.
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    Annoying? The guy was quiet lol
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • JT167846JT167846 Posts: 365
    Think the music maybe hasn't aged as well because three albums never gave the band enough chances to really evolve. We got to see that with the other Seattle big 3, even Alice with William. Them and PJ were the big two for me when I really fell for music, but now it's Tool and PJ (not necessarily in that order). Phonetics were a big part of Kurt's lyrical approach, and it was genius how he made the songs so memorable with how those words sounded. Was he the weakest singer of the big 4? Yes, but he still had a fantastic sounding voice. Nevermind isn't my favourite album ever, Ten will always be and hell it isn't even my favourite Nirvana album as I'm an In Utero guy, but Nevermind is IMO the most important album of the 90s and Teen Spirit the most important song. It's absolutely deserving of its place alongside Dark Side, Led Zep 4, Back In Black etc. as one of the best rock records ever. Like top five. I don't listen to them very often but they'll always be very special to me as a huge part of my introduction to music that made me really passionate about music in general. They're the band that I'd choose to see had I the choice of seeing any band in history that I haven't. And as much as I got my rocks off watching Dave Grohl play a full set on drums with Them Crooked Vultures, I'm gutted that it will never come to pass.
    Stars are suns to other people.

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 24,222
    Super overrated. As in very very overrated. But I knew this back in the early nineties as well. 
    @lolobugg Can u please talk some sense in to her?

    I kid, I kid!
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    I've felt the same way for some time now. I'm a big fan of Cobain the musician and songwriter, but not so much a fan of Cobain the person.

  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    I've felt the same way for some time now. I'm a big fan of Cobain the musician and songwriter, but not so much a fan of Cobain the person.
    you didn't know him. Only what you saw in the media.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 4,038
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't think the music is overrated, nor the talent, but I feel like Kurt Cobain as a person kind of is. That sounds awful I guess, but I really do feel that way. I always found him to be incredibly unlikable and annoying.
    I've felt the same way for some time now. I'm a big fan of Cobain the musician and songwriter, but not so much a fan of Cobain the person.
    you didn't know him. Only what you saw in the media.

    So I'm not allowed to have a less than favorable opinion about a celebrity because I never met them in person?

    Please.


  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 10,584
    I think you could be right about that. And look how much the changed when Dave G joined the band. And all the hits that Dave still writes with the Foo Fighters, I think he is the most talented person to come from Nirvana 
     :o 
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 4,758
    So is this the time where we mention how Foo Fighters are basically just MOR rock music? I mean, they are successful, and it was very good at the end of the 90s. But now its seems like they are going through the motions of making boring rock music?
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