Ted Turner was buying up acres in Montana before it was cool. I would expect when he dies that it all becomes a state park?
That would be cool, but equally excellent would be for his property, known as Turner Ranches, to continue the good work being done there:
Turner Ranches
With approximately two million acres of personal and ranch land, Ted
Turner is the second largest individual landholder in North America.
Turner lands are innovatively managed to unite economic viability with
ecological sustainability. Turner ranches operate as working businesses,
relying on bison, hunting and fishing, and ecotourism as principal
enterprises. In addition, Turner ranches support many progressive
environmental projects including water resource and timber management,
and the reintroduction of native species to the land.
Turner Enterprises also manages over 45,000 bison across the various Turner ranches.
And though he doesn't talk about Turner specifically in his book Rewilding the West, Richard Manning explains the history of and importance of repopulating bison in that part of the country.
Ruth Rudner's A Chorus of Buffalo is also excellent:
:
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Gas-powered muscle cars drive into the sunset, turn electric
By TOM KRISHER
Today
PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — Thundering gas-powered muscle cars, for decades a fixture of American culture, will be closing in on their final Saturday-night cruises in the coming years as automakers begin replacing them with super-fast cars that run on batteries.
Stellantis' Dodge brand, long the performance flag-bearer of the company formerly known as Fiat Chrysler, is officially moving toward electricity. On Wednesday night, Dodge unveiled a battery-powered Charger Daytona SRT concept car, which is close to one that will be produced in 2024 as the sun sets on some petroleum models.
Stellantis says it will stop making gasoline versions of the Dodge Challenger and Charger muscle cars and the Chrysler 300 large car by the end of next year. The Canadian factory that makes them will be converted to electric vehicles. Other automakers are moving — or have moved — in the same direction.
General Motors has said it will build an all-electric Chevrolet Corvette. Tesla says its Model S Plaid version is the fastest production vehicle made, able to go from zero to 60 mph (97 kilometers per hour) in under 2 seconds. Audi, Mercedes, Porsche and other European automakers already have high-performance electric models on sale. And Polestar, an electric-performance spinoff from Volvo, just announced a new Polestar 6 roadster for 2026.
One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
Stricter government pollution requirements are another factor, too. As automakers in the U.S. face more stringent fuel-economy requirements adopted by the Biden administration and produce a broader range of EV vehicles, they will have to jettison some of their gas-fueled muscle-car models.
Tim Kuniskis, CEO of the Dodge brand, said the possibly of government fines for not meeting gas-mileage requirements hastened the shift to the electric Charger. “Compliance fines and things like that associated with a big cast-iron supercharged V8, yes, it's tough,” he said.
Still, it will take a few years for the gas-powered classics to go away.
“Over the next several years, I think we’ll continue to have some internal combustion stuff, probably through most of the decade,” said Sam Abuelsamid, a research analyst at Guidehouse Insights. “But increasingly, the focus is going to be on the electric ones.”
Under new gas-mileage standards that were unveiled in April, the fleet of new vehicles will have to average around 40 miles per gallon in 2026, up from 25.4 mpg now, the EPA says. The standards are likely to become even stronger in the future, a trend that will compel U.S.-based automakers to shed some gasoline muscle cars if they are to avoid fines.
Of all major automakers, the EPA says, Stellantis had the lowest average fuel economy — 21.3 miles per gallon — and the highest average carbon dioxide emissions. So the company likely will have to eliminate some models to avoid fines. Its limited-edition Charger SRT Widebody, with a supercharged 6.2-liter Hemi Hellcat V-8, for instance, gets only 12 mpg in city driving and 21 mpg on the highway.
To many gearheads, the thought of a muscle car without noise and smells is heresy. But Kuniskis says Dodge is working hard to make the electric experience match internal combustion. The Charger, he said, will generate its own air flow to make an exhaust noise that rivals gas performance cars. And the transmission will shift gears.
When the electric Charger was driven through a garage door and entered a building Wednesday night at a racetrack in Pontiac, Michigan, it roared just like a gas muscle car.
Electric vehicles, Kuniskis said, have the potential to perform better than gas muscle cars with fast acceleration. But he said they are kind of sterile. “It doesn't have the emotion. It doesn't have the drama. It doesn't have the kind of dangerous feeling that ICE (an internal combustion engine) has when it's loud and rumbling and shifting and moving the car around.”
Kuniskis wouldn't say how fast the electric Charger will go from zero to 60 mph, but said it would be faster than the company's current petroleum performance cars. He also wouldn't say the range-per-charge for the new Challenger, but added that range isn't as important as making it a true muscle car.
Rick Nelson, the owner of Musclecar Restoration & Design in Pleasant Plains, Illinois, near Springfield, cautioned that switching from loud fuel-burning engines to quiet electricity may be a hard sell to old-timers who grew up with the sounds and smells of racing.
Nelson, 61, said he restored his first car while a teenager and spent hours at drag strips. He acknowledged that the switch to electricity is inevitable and is needed to attract a new generation that has become used to quiet speed. Still, he said, electric muscle cars won't have manual shifters, and he'll miss the smell of racing fuel at the track.
Already, Nelson said, businesses are cropping up to put electric powertrains in classic muscle cars. He has been in touch with an engineer at Tesla about retrofitting batteries and electric motors into some classics.
“Guys like me are just going to frown on it and laugh at it,” Nelson said of electric muscle cars. “But this isn’t about my generation.”
Kuniskis says the shift to electricity doesn't mean the end of the muscle car. It's just a new era.
“It' s OK,” he said. “Let us show you what the future looks like.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
Gas-powered muscle cars drive into the sunset, turn electric
By TOM KRISHER
Today
PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — Thundering gas-powered muscle cars, for decades a fixture of American culture, will be closing in on their final Saturday-night cruises in the coming years as automakers begin replacing them with super-fast cars that run on batteries.
Stellantis' Dodge brand, long the performance flag-bearer of the company formerly known as Fiat Chrysler, is officially moving toward electricity. On Wednesday night, Dodge unveiled a battery-powered Charger Daytona SRT concept car, which is close to one that will be produced in 2024 as the sun sets on some petroleum models.
Stellantis says it will stop making gasoline versions of the Dodge Challenger and Charger muscle cars and the Chrysler 300 large car by the end of next year. The Canadian factory that makes them will be converted to electric vehicles. Other automakers are moving — or have moved — in the same direction.
General Motors has said it will build an all-electric Chevrolet Corvette. Tesla says its Model S Plaid version is the fastest production vehicle made, able to go from zero to 60 mph (97 kilometers per hour) in under 2 seconds. Audi, Mercedes, Porsche and other European automakers already have high-performance electric models on sale. And Polestar, an electric-performance spinoff from Volvo, just announced a new Polestar 6 roadster for 2026.
One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
Stricter government pollution requirements are another factor, too. As automakers in the U.S. face more stringent fuel-economy requirements adopted by the Biden administration and produce a broader range of EV vehicles, they will have to jettison some of their gas-fueled muscle-car models.
Tim Kuniskis, CEO of the Dodge brand, said the possibly of government fines for not meeting gas-mileage requirements hastened the shift to the electric Charger. “Compliance fines and things like that associated with a big cast-iron supercharged V8, yes, it's tough,” he said.
Still, it will take a few years for the gas-powered classics to go away.
“Over the next several years, I think we’ll continue to have some internal combustion stuff, probably through most of the decade,” said Sam Abuelsamid, a research analyst at Guidehouse Insights. “But increasingly, the focus is going to be on the electric ones.”
Under new gas-mileage standards that were unveiled in April, the fleet of new vehicles will have to average around 40 miles per gallon in 2026, up from 25.4 mpg now, the EPA says. The standards are likely to become even stronger in the future, a trend that will compel U.S.-based automakers to shed some gasoline muscle cars if they are to avoid fines.
Of all major automakers, the EPA says, Stellantis had the lowest average fuel economy — 21.3 miles per gallon — and the highest average carbon dioxide emissions. So the company likely will have to eliminate some models to avoid fines. Its limited-edition Charger SRT Widebody, with a supercharged 6.2-liter Hemi Hellcat V-8, for instance, gets only 12 mpg in city driving and 21 mpg on the highway.
To many gearheads, the thought of a muscle car without noise and smells is heresy. But Kuniskis says Dodge is working hard to make the electric experience match internal combustion. The Charger, he said, will generate its own air flow to make an exhaust noise that rivals gas performance cars. And the transmission will shift gears.
When the electric Charger was driven through a garage door and entered a building Wednesday night at a racetrack in Pontiac, Michigan, it roared just like a gas muscle car.
Electric vehicles, Kuniskis said, have the potential to perform better than gas muscle cars with fast acceleration. But he said they are kind of sterile. “It doesn't have the emotion. It doesn't have the drama. It doesn't have the kind of dangerous feeling that ICE (an internal combustion engine) has when it's loud and rumbling and shifting and moving the car around.”
Kuniskis wouldn't say how fast the electric Charger will go from zero to 60 mph, but said it would be faster than the company's current petroleum performance cars. He also wouldn't say the range-per-charge for the new Challenger, but added that range isn't as important as making it a true muscle car.
Rick Nelson, the owner of Musclecar Restoration & Design in Pleasant Plains, Illinois, near Springfield, cautioned that switching from loud fuel-burning engines to quiet electricity may be a hard sell to old-timers who grew up with the sounds and smells of racing.
Nelson, 61, said he restored his first car while a teenager and spent hours at drag strips. He acknowledged that the switch to electricity is inevitable and is needed to attract a new generation that has become used to quiet speed. Still, he said, electric muscle cars won't have manual shifters, and he'll miss the smell of racing fuel at the track.
Already, Nelson said, businesses are cropping up to put electric powertrains in classic muscle cars. He has been in touch with an engineer at Tesla about retrofitting batteries and electric motors into some classics.
“Guys like me are just going to frown on it and laugh at it,” Nelson said of electric muscle cars. “But this isn’t about my generation.”
Kuniskis says the shift to electricity doesn't mean the end of the muscle car. It's just a new era.
“It' s OK,” he said. “Let us show you what the future looks like.”
What's ironic is that, at least where I live, gas powered muscle cars seem to have made a comeback. I don't know how much of that is due to Bay Area suburbanites moving to (or retiring and moving to) this area. It's just strange seeing so many here these day.
I suppose you could also say that it's ironic that once upon a time (a long, long time ago), I drove a V-8 Chevy Malibu and had friends who were into muscle cars. That was another lifetime ago!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Ted Turner was buying up acres in Montana before it was cool. I would expect when he dies that it all becomes a state park?
That would be cool, but equally excellent would be for his property, known as Turner Ranches, to continue the good work being done there:
Turner Ranches
With approximately two million acres of personal and ranch land, Ted
Turner is the second largest individual landholder in North America.
Turner lands are innovatively managed to unite economic viability with
ecological sustainability. Turner ranches operate as working businesses,
relying on bison, hunting and fishing, and ecotourism as principal
enterprises. In addition, Turner ranches support many progressive
environmental projects including water resource and timber management,
and the reintroduction of native species to the land.
Turner Enterprises also manages over 45,000 bison across the various Turner ranches.
And though he doesn't talk about Turner specifically in his book Rewilding the West, Richard Manning explains the history of and importance of repopulating bison in that part of the country.
Ruth Rudner's A Chorus of Buffalo is also excellent:
:
Oh how cool. I do hope that his lands do continue to do good then if they don't become State Parks!
Gas-powered muscle cars drive into the sunset, turn electric
By TOM KRISHER
Today
PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — Thundering gas-powered muscle cars, for decades a fixture of American culture, will be closing in on their final Saturday-night cruises in the coming years as automakers begin replacing them with super-fast cars that run on batteries.
Stellantis' Dodge brand, long the performance flag-bearer of the company formerly known as Fiat Chrysler, is officially moving toward electricity. On Wednesday night, Dodge unveiled a battery-powered Charger Daytona SRT concept car, which is close to one that will be produced in 2024 as the sun sets on some petroleum models.
Stellantis says it will stop making gasoline versions of the Dodge Challenger and Charger muscle cars and the Chrysler 300 large car by the end of next year. The Canadian factory that makes them will be converted to electric vehicles. Other automakers are moving — or have moved — in the same direction.
General Motors has said it will build an all-electric Chevrolet Corvette. Tesla says its Model S Plaid version is the fastest production vehicle made, able to go from zero to 60 mph (97 kilometers per hour) in under 2 seconds. Audi, Mercedes, Porsche and other European automakers already have high-performance electric models on sale. And Polestar, an electric-performance spinoff from Volvo, just announced a new Polestar 6 roadster for 2026.
One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
Stricter government pollution requirements are another factor, too. As automakers in the U.S. face more stringent fuel-economy requirements adopted by the Biden administration and produce a broader range of EV vehicles, they will have to jettison some of their gas-fueled muscle-car models.
Tim Kuniskis, CEO of the Dodge brand, said the possibly of government fines for not meeting gas-mileage requirements hastened the shift to the electric Charger. “Compliance fines and things like that associated with a big cast-iron supercharged V8, yes, it's tough,” he said.
Still, it will take a few years for the gas-powered classics to go away.
“Over the next several years, I think we’ll continue to have some internal combustion stuff, probably through most of the decade,” said Sam Abuelsamid, a research analyst at Guidehouse Insights. “But increasingly, the focus is going to be on the electric ones.”
Under new gas-mileage standards that were unveiled in April, the fleet of new vehicles will have to average around 40 miles per gallon in 2026, up from 25.4 mpg now, the EPA says. The standards are likely to become even stronger in the future, a trend that will compel U.S.-based automakers to shed some gasoline muscle cars if they are to avoid fines.
Of all major automakers, the EPA says, Stellantis had the lowest average fuel economy — 21.3 miles per gallon — and the highest average carbon dioxide emissions. So the company likely will have to eliminate some models to avoid fines. Its limited-edition Charger SRT Widebody, with a supercharged 6.2-liter Hemi Hellcat V-8, for instance, gets only 12 mpg in city driving and 21 mpg on the highway.
To many gearheads, the thought of a muscle car without noise and smells is heresy. But Kuniskis says Dodge is working hard to make the electric experience match internal combustion. The Charger, he said, will generate its own air flow to make an exhaust noise that rivals gas performance cars. And the transmission will shift gears.
When the electric Charger was driven through a garage door and entered a building Wednesday night at a racetrack in Pontiac, Michigan, it roared just like a gas muscle car.
Electric vehicles, Kuniskis said, have the potential to perform better than gas muscle cars with fast acceleration. But he said they are kind of sterile. “It doesn't have the emotion. It doesn't have the drama. It doesn't have the kind of dangerous feeling that ICE (an internal combustion engine) has when it's loud and rumbling and shifting and moving the car around.”
Kuniskis wouldn't say how fast the electric Charger will go from zero to 60 mph, but said it would be faster than the company's current petroleum performance cars. He also wouldn't say the range-per-charge for the new Challenger, but added that range isn't as important as making it a true muscle car.
Rick Nelson, the owner of Musclecar Restoration & Design in Pleasant Plains, Illinois, near Springfield, cautioned that switching from loud fuel-burning engines to quiet electricity may be a hard sell to old-timers who grew up with the sounds and smells of racing.
Nelson, 61, said he restored his first car while a teenager and spent hours at drag strips. He acknowledged that the switch to electricity is inevitable and is needed to attract a new generation that has become used to quiet speed. Still, he said, electric muscle cars won't have manual shifters, and he'll miss the smell of racing fuel at the track.
Already, Nelson said, businesses are cropping up to put electric powertrains in classic muscle cars. He has been in touch with an engineer at Tesla about retrofitting batteries and electric motors into some classics.
“Guys like me are just going to frown on it and laugh at it,” Nelson said of electric muscle cars. “But this isn’t about my generation.”
Kuniskis says the shift to electricity doesn't mean the end of the muscle car. It's just a new era.
“It' s OK,” he said. “Let us show you what the future looks like.”
What's ironic is that, at least where I live, gas powered muscle cars seem to have made a comeback. I don't know how much of that is due to Bay Area suburbanites moving to (or retiring and moving to) this area. It's just strange seeing so many here these day.
I suppose you could also say that it's ironic that once upon a time (a long, long time ago), I drove a V-8 Chevy Malibu and had friends who were into muscle cars. That was another lifetime ago!
Nice to see the American muscle cars doing what Lamborghini, Ferrari and McLaren already are doing, going electric.
Brian, that resurgence should happen one more go around with the 80's cars then after that I think we should be done unless we have a Fast and the Furious revival and everyone wants Civics and Supras?
One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
and more deaths, that, they forgot to mention…
EVs are 30%heavier, faster acceleration, less safe, destroy roads faster, have batteries that are toxic to the earth and in current tech, run on fossil fuels. Getting “average” drivers to fall in love with EVs exceptional acceleration is not good for the environment nor our safety. Focus should be on replacing coal and nat gas power plants with wind and solar, then bring on widespread use of EVs, once the battery problems are fixed. Doing it before the power generation tech is ready is bad for the environment, when considering all factors such as road replacement, batteries and coal fired plants. Now we all can pretend to be Max Verstappen while driving to stop and shop? Get outta my way. Fast.
My frustration is that EVs take up a lot of attention in the important push to improve the climate, including some of the new incentives signed into law. EVs monopolize discussions in places like this. The funding that EVs have taken away from the solar and wind subsidies in the new law is a net negative for the environment, that money should have went to generating power to replace gas and coal. How can something that made Musk the wealthiest human be good for the planet?
People who currently drive SUVs are falling in love with the idea of new electric F150. So this desire to “upsell” and “upbuy” to performance cars and trucks is detrimental to the cause. Muscle cars exasperate the problem.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
Gas-powered muscle cars drive into the sunset, turn electric
By TOM KRISHER
Today
PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — Thundering gas-powered muscle cars, for decades a fixture of American culture, will be closing in on their final Saturday-night cruises in the coming years as automakers begin replacing them with super-fast cars that run on batteries.
Stellantis' Dodge brand, long the performance flag-bearer of the company formerly known as Fiat Chrysler, is officially moving toward electricity. On Wednesday night, Dodge unveiled a battery-powered Charger Daytona SRT concept car, which is close to one that will be produced in 2024 as the sun sets on some petroleum models.
Stellantis says it will stop making gasoline versions of the Dodge Challenger and Charger muscle cars and the Chrysler 300 large car by the end of next year. The Canadian factory that makes them will be converted to electric vehicles. Other automakers are moving — or have moved — in the same direction.
General Motors has said it will build an all-electric Chevrolet Corvette. Tesla says its Model S Plaid version is the fastest production vehicle made, able to go from zero to 60 mph (97 kilometers per hour) in under 2 seconds. Audi, Mercedes, Porsche and other European automakers already have high-performance electric models on sale. And Polestar, an electric-performance spinoff from Volvo, just announced a new Polestar 6 roadster for 2026.
One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
Stricter government pollution requirements are another factor, too. As automakers in the U.S. face more stringent fuel-economy requirements adopted by the Biden administration and produce a broader range of EV vehicles, they will have to jettison some of their gas-fueled muscle-car models.
Tim Kuniskis, CEO of the Dodge brand, said the possibly of government fines for not meeting gas-mileage requirements hastened the shift to the electric Charger. “Compliance fines and things like that associated with a big cast-iron supercharged V8, yes, it's tough,” he said.
Still, it will take a few years for the gas-powered classics to go away.
“Over the next several years, I think we’ll continue to have some internal combustion stuff, probably through most of the decade,” said Sam Abuelsamid, a research analyst at Guidehouse Insights. “But increasingly, the focus is going to be on the electric ones.”
Under new gas-mileage standards that were unveiled in April, the fleet of new vehicles will have to average around 40 miles per gallon in 2026, up from 25.4 mpg now, the EPA says. The standards are likely to become even stronger in the future, a trend that will compel U.S.-based automakers to shed some gasoline muscle cars if they are to avoid fines.
Of all major automakers, the EPA says, Stellantis had the lowest average fuel economy — 21.3 miles per gallon — and the highest average carbon dioxide emissions. So the company likely will have to eliminate some models to avoid fines. Its limited-edition Charger SRT Widebody, with a supercharged 6.2-liter Hemi Hellcat V-8, for instance, gets only 12 mpg in city driving and 21 mpg on the highway.
To many gearheads, the thought of a muscle car without noise and smells is heresy. But Kuniskis says Dodge is working hard to make the electric experience match internal combustion. The Charger, he said, will generate its own air flow to make an exhaust noise that rivals gas performance cars. And the transmission will shift gears.
When the electric Charger was driven through a garage door and entered a building Wednesday night at a racetrack in Pontiac, Michigan, it roared just like a gas muscle car.
Electric vehicles, Kuniskis said, have the potential to perform better than gas muscle cars with fast acceleration. But he said they are kind of sterile. “It doesn't have the emotion. It doesn't have the drama. It doesn't have the kind of dangerous feeling that ICE (an internal combustion engine) has when it's loud and rumbling and shifting and moving the car around.”
Kuniskis wouldn't say how fast the electric Charger will go from zero to 60 mph, but said it would be faster than the company's current petroleum performance cars. He also wouldn't say the range-per-charge for the new Challenger, but added that range isn't as important as making it a true muscle car.
Rick Nelson, the owner of Musclecar Restoration & Design in Pleasant Plains, Illinois, near Springfield, cautioned that switching from loud fuel-burning engines to quiet electricity may be a hard sell to old-timers who grew up with the sounds and smells of racing.
Nelson, 61, said he restored his first car while a teenager and spent hours at drag strips. He acknowledged that the switch to electricity is inevitable and is needed to attract a new generation that has become used to quiet speed. Still, he said, electric muscle cars won't have manual shifters, and he'll miss the smell of racing fuel at the track.
Already, Nelson said, businesses are cropping up to put electric powertrains in classic muscle cars. He has been in touch with an engineer at Tesla about retrofitting batteries and electric motors into some classics.
“Guys like me are just going to frown on it and laugh at it,” Nelson said of electric muscle cars. “But this isn’t about my generation.”
Kuniskis says the shift to electricity doesn't mean the end of the muscle car. It's just a new era.
“It' s OK,” he said. “Let us show you what the future looks like.”
What's ironic is that, at least where I live, gas powered muscle cars seem to have made a comeback. I don't know how much of that is due to Bay Area suburbanites moving to (or retiring and moving to) this area. It's just strange seeing so many here these day.
I suppose you could also say that it's ironic that once upon a time (a long, long time ago), I drove a V-8 Chevy Malibu and had friends who were into muscle cars. That was another lifetime ago!
Nice to see the American muscle cars doing what Lamborghini, Ferrari and McLaren already are doing, going electric.
Brian, that resurgence should happen one more go around with the 80's cars then after that I think we should be done unless we have a Fast and the Furious revival and everyone wants Civics and Supras?
I had an 80's Dodge Tradesman that was once in beautiful shape and had hoped to keep it as kind of a "classic" vehicle but one winter the roof vent leaked in a big storm and the interior was ruined. It was also getting really hard to find parts for and had issues no mechanic around here was willing to deal with. Thankfully, I have a nephew who can fix just about anything so I gave it to him about 12 or 14 years ago. He stripped the interior, fixed the odd problems, and still uses it today up where he lives outside Seattle for recreation. I used to call the van Mose but my nephew gave it an even better name: Van-Go.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
and more deaths, that, they forgot to mention…
EVs are 30%heavier, faster acceleration, less safe, destroy roads faster, have batteries that are toxic to the earth and in current tech, run on fossil fuels. Getting “average” drivers to fall in love with EVs exceptional acceleration is not good for the environment nor our safety. Focus should be on replacing coal and nat gas power plants with wind and solar, then bring on widespread use of EVs, once the battery problems are fixed. Doing it before the power generation tech is ready is bad for the environment, when considering all factors such as road replacement, batteries and coal fired plants. Now we all can pretend to be Max Verstappen while driving to stop and shop? Get outta my way. Fast.
My frustration is that EVs take up a lot of attention in the important push to improve the climate, including some of the new incentives signed into law. EVs monopolize discussions in places like this. The funding that EVs have taken away from the solar and wind subsidies in the new law is a net negative for the environment, that money should have went to generating power to replace gas and coal. How can something that made Musk the wealthiest human be good for the planet?
People who currently drive SUVs are falling in love with the idea of new electric F150. So this desire to “upsell” and “upbuy” to performance cars and trucks is detrimental to the cause. Muscle cars exasperate the problem.
The biggest problem is that we car a car-culture society and are hell-bent on not giving up the lifestyle that dictates that everyone has their own car and everyone drives alone. Besides overpopulation, I would rate that- along with suburbia- as two of our biggest obstacles to overcoming environmental issues. Electric vehicles are a bandage. They may be better than gas powered cars in some ways, but better the way scraping a vinyl record with cat claws is better than scraping it with a knife.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry. When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.
Snow crab have literally disappeared...
This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry. When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.
Snow crab have literally disappeared...
This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.
I wonder what happened? The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are
dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each
other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just
didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think?
I hope they just moved to different waters.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry. When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.
Snow crab have literally disappeared...
This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.
I wonder what happened? The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are
dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each
other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just
didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think?
I hope they just moved to different waters.
They should have been able to follow the biomass though. That is a lot of crab that just disappears.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry. When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.
Snow crab have literally disappeared...
This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.
I wonder what happened? The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are
dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each
other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just
didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think?
I hope they just moved to different waters.
They should have been able to follow the biomass though. That is a lot of crab that just disappears.
Sounds like the cause of them disappearing- whatever it is- is some kind of serious ecosystem imbalance. Not all such imbalances are human caused, but knowing our track record that way, it is highly concerning.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry. When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.
Snow crab have literally disappeared...
This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.
I wonder what happened? The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are
dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each
other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just
didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think?
I hope they just moved to different waters.
They should have been able to follow the biomass though. That is a lot of crab that just disappears.
Sounds like the cause of them disappearing- whatever it is- is some kind of serious ecosystem imbalance. Not all such imbalances are human caused, but knowing our track record that way, it is highly concerning.
When the King crab disappeared we knew.
When the pollock and salmon numbers got low, we knew.
This could be very bad. It has me wondering about the plankton and fresh water movement in the ocean and if that has an effect? Warming waters?
We have sooo much information on things but can't find a smoking gun? Was there a damn volcano eruption?
I watch the show the Deadliest catch. I missed the days when it was more reality, where now it's scripted, and full of fake situations.
One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.
Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry? They must migrated across the border fairly regularly. Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).
Just a thought. No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry. When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.
Snow crab have literally disappeared...
This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.
I wonder what happened? The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are
dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each
other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just
didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think?
I hope they just moved to different waters.
They should have been able to follow the biomass though. That is a lot of crab that just disappears.
Sounds like the cause of them disappearing- whatever it is- is some kind of serious ecosystem imbalance. Not all such imbalances are human caused, but knowing our track record that way, it is highly concerning.
When the King crab disappeared we knew.
When the pollock and salmon numbers got low, we knew.
This could be very bad. It has me wondering about the plankton and fresh water movement in the ocean and if that has an effect? Warming waters?
We have sooo much information on things but can't find a smoking gun? Was there a damn volcano eruption?
So many things to factor- changing currents, cahnging climate, acidification, too much micro plastic? Probably a combination of a bunch of things.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
I watch the show the Deadliest catch. I missed the days when it was more reality, where now it's scripted, and full of fake situations.
One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.
Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry? They must migrated across the border fairly regularly. Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).
Just a thought. No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.
They keep so much information hidden, it's hard to know, but certainly that could be the case.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I watch the show the Deadliest catch. I missed the days when it was more reality, where now it's scripted, and full of fake situations.
One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.
Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry? They must migrated across the border fairly regularly. Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).
Just a thought. No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.
I watch the show the Deadliest catch. I missed the days when it was more reality, where now it's scripted, and full of fake situations.
One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.
Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry? They must migrated across the border fairly regularly. Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).
Just a thought. No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.
They keep so much information hidden, it's hard to know, but certainly that could be the case.
For years there was a worry that Russia would over harvest the crab and plummet prices. With all their sanctions right now I don't know who would buy their crab?!?
It was well known that their waters had an abundance of crab so they might have migrated that way too. My cousin worked on a Russian trawler and the amount of crab they caught was staggering.
One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
and more deaths, that, they forgot to mention…
EVs are 30%heavier, faster acceleration, less safe, destroy roads faster, have batteries that are toxic to the earth and in current tech, run on fossil fuels. Getting “average” drivers to fall in love with EVs exceptional acceleration is not good for the environment nor our safety. Focus should be on replacing coal and nat gas power plants with wind and solar, then bring on widespread use of EVs, once the battery problems are fixed. Doing it before the power generation tech is ready is bad for the environment, when considering all factors such as road replacement, batteries and coal fired plants. Now we all can pretend to be Max Verstappen while driving to stop and shop? Get outta my way. Fast.
My frustration is that EVs take up a lot of attention in the important push to improve the climate, including some of the new incentives signed into law. EVs monopolize discussions in places like this. The funding that EVs have taken away from the solar and wind subsidies in the new law is a net negative for the environment, that money should have went to generating power to replace gas and coal. How can something that made Musk the wealthiest human be good for the planet?
People who currently drive SUVs are falling in love with the idea of new electric F150. So this desire to “upsell” and “upbuy” to performance cars and trucks is detrimental to the cause. Muscle cars exasperate the problem.
The biggest problem is that we car a car-culture society and are hell-bent on not giving up the lifestyle that dictates that everyone has their own car and everyone drives alone. Besides overpopulation, I would rate that- along with suburbia- as two of our biggest obstacles to overcoming environmental issues. Electric vehicles are a bandage. They may be better than gas powered cars in some ways, but better the way scraping a vinyl record with cat claws is better than scraping it with a knife.
Yes, America does not have realistic public transport so we are stuck with cars. But with the new climate law, too much is being spent on EVs. It’s an Elon Bailout. EVs don’t help much in places that generate electricity with coal. And most places currently use gas for generation, so,it’s swapping one fossil fuel for another, while bringing battery issues into the equation. In Cali, EVs do make a lot of sense as coal is less than one percent of electric generation. The current focus should be to maximize solar and wind generation asap, then figure out if EVs are even worth the effort, with their heavy and toxic batteries.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
and more deaths, that, they forgot to mention…
EVs are 30%heavier, faster acceleration, less safe, destroy roads faster, have batteries that are toxic to the earth and in current tech, run on fossil fuels. Getting “average” drivers to fall in love with EVs exceptional acceleration is not good for the environment nor our safety. Focus should be on replacing coal and nat gas power plants with wind and solar, then bring on widespread use of EVs, once the battery problems are fixed. Doing it before the power generation tech is ready is bad for the environment, when considering all factors such as road replacement, batteries and coal fired plants. Now we all can pretend to be Max Verstappen while driving to stop and shop? Get outta my way. Fast.
My frustration is that EVs take up a lot of attention in the important push to improve the climate, including some of the new incentives signed into law. EVs monopolize discussions in places like this. The funding that EVs have taken away from the solar and wind subsidies in the new law is a net negative for the environment, that money should have went to generating power to replace gas and coal. How can something that made Musk the wealthiest human be good for the planet?
People who currently drive SUVs are falling in love with the idea of new electric F150. So this desire to “upsell” and “upbuy” to performance cars and trucks is detrimental to the cause. Muscle cars exasperate the problem.
The biggest problem is that we car a car-culture society and are hell-bent on not giving up the lifestyle that dictates that everyone has their own car and everyone drives alone. Besides overpopulation, I would rate that- along with suburbia- as two of our biggest obstacles to overcoming environmental issues. Electric vehicles are a bandage. They may be better than gas powered cars in some ways, but better the way scraping a vinyl record with cat claws is better than scraping it with a knife.
Yes, America does not have realistic public transport so we are stuck with cars. But with the new climate law, too much is being spent on EVs. It’s an Elon Bailout. EVs don’t help much in places that generate electricity with coal. And most places currently use gas for generation, so,it’s swapping one fossil fuel for another, while bringing battery issues into the equation. In Cali, EVs do make a lot of sense as coal is less than one percent of electric generation. The current focus should be to maximize solar and wind generation asap, then figure out if EVs are even worth the effort, with their heavy and toxic batteries.
I'm not sure EVs make sense here either, to tell you the truth. Over the last several years, we have more and more been taxing the limits of our power grid. We get notices from time to time asking us to limit power uses because the system is being overburdened. This sometimes cause power outages or rolling black outs. There are over 14 million automobiles registered in California. I have to wonder how our electric power grid is going to handle millions upon millions of cars being plugged in every day. Talk about denial!
It's the same kind of insanity that is creating this situation which ignores our drought/ water shortage situation:
This photo shows what is what happening about 25 miles from where I
live. Until very recently, what you mostly saw for about 10 miles along
U.S. 50 (and stretches laterally much further than that) going though
the stretch between Folsom and El Dorado Hills was the rolling hills and
oak trees you can see in the background in the photo. Almost all of
that now is what you see happening in the foreground and these
developments are going up almost literally over night.:
Here's another view. That green space in the background is going away quickly:
This is all sheer madness!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
This is actually nothing new. They have been talking about this for a while. The concern with it melting is adding more fresh water in the ocean which would mess up the salinity and messing up the food chain. Those plankton and krill are very important to the ecosystem and cycle of life.
It has been melting for years though so unless it melts all at once I don't see anything catastrophic happening. Glaciers melt, that is what they do. If they all melt hen we have a problem but for right now we are holding on.
well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc.
It is a doomsday scenario yes but like it says, it's been melting since 1973 when they first started monitoring it.
I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc.
It is a doomsday scenario yes but like it says, it's been melting since 1973 when they first started monitoring it.
I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.
Probably more like a doomsyear or doomsdecade scenario. I don't think it will happen overnight. Just a SWAG on my part though.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc.
It is a doomsday scenario yes but like it says, it's been melting since 1973 when they first started monitoring it.
I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.
Probably more like a doomsyear or doomsdecade scenario. I don't think it will happen overnight. Just a SWAG on my part though.
Exactly. That isn't going to melt in a damn day and by then the atmosphere may take more of it and create more rain so we don't have 17' of seawater.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc.
It is a doomsday scenario yes but like it says, it's been melting since 1973 when they first started monitoring it.
I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.
Probably more like a doomsyear or doomsdecade scenario. I don't think it will happen overnight. Just a SWAG on my part though.
Exactly. That isn't going to melt in a damn day and by then the atmosphere may take more of it and create more rain so we don't have 17' of seawater.
More rain could be a problem in some place. Sure would be welcome here though!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
When California asks people to buy electric vehicles, then tells them not to charge the cars, we witness more than fiscal stupidity. The middle class is being forced to shoulder the burden of a haphazard green agenda that squeezes regular Americans in the short term for the sake of achieving foolish long-term energy goals. California’s clumsy attempt to transition to renewable energy is mirrored nationally by the Biden administration.
Americans are paying higher prices now because of Biden’s regulatory war on fossil fuels. Senior Editor David Harsanyi put it well when he wrote, “Democrats are rigging the market to force you to buy a car that has a 200-mile reach and uses erratic and expensive energy when you already have increasingly efficient models in your driveway and tens of billions of easily accessible barrels of offshore fossil fuels here at home — and much more around the world.”
“We have centuries worth of the stuff waiting in the ground,” he added. “Which gives us enough time to come up with some better ideas.”
As David points out, a Berkeley study found over 90 percent of taxpayer subsidies for electric vehicles went to the top income quintile as of 2015. The numbers overall are striking. “Since 2006, U.S. households have received more than $18 billion in federal income tax credits for weatherizing their homes, installing solar panels, buying hybrid and electric vehicles, and other ‘clean energy’ investments,” wrote the authors. “We find that these tax expenditures have gone predominantly to higher-income Americans. The bottom three income quintiles have received about 10% of all credits, while the top quintile has received about 60%.”
Taxpayers have been funding subsidies for people who can already afford them. Money goes out of their paychecks and into their rich neighbors’ Chinese solar panels. Renewables in general will replace our dependence on OPEC with dependence on China. Alternatively, we could allow Americans to go about business as usual while eliminating excess emissions where it’s affordable (see: carbon capture), improving nuclear technology, and making other energy sources more efficient.
If countries like China and the quickly growing India don’t meet emission reduction goals, Americans will have suffered needlessly. China emits more greenhouse gases than every developed country combined.
Higher fuel prices don’t affect John Kerry like they affect the 58 percent of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. For the laptop class, much of which resides in walkable cities, an extra few bucks in gas or taxes is annoying but fine. For others, it’s enormous stress, it’s a second job, it’s less time with their children, more debt, or fewer drives to see relatives.
Overall, to put it bluntly, high-profile environmentalists want to normalize a world with fewer children, less steak, and less driving. That amounts to a war on American culture. It’s a political gift to Republicans and a moral imperative to fight. Not for the sake of cheap cuts of beef at Outback Steakhouse, but for the sake of communities and human flourishing.
When white-collar Republican politicians talk about “pain at the pump” this fall, what they’re really talking about is the consequence of a culture war on America’s middle class — one that burdens the unwashed masses with lifestyle sacrifices our elites can weather more easily or simply refuse to give up altogether.
Many wealthy policymakers and investors will profit majorly off the transition to “clean” energy while they force others to change their lives and fork over more of their paychecks. This is easy messaging for Republicans. Worried about culture warriors talking about Drag Queen Story Hours and abortion? First, don’t be. Second, consider “ESG” — environmental and social governance — as an all-encompassing corporate agenda to join forces with groups like Planned Parenthood to bulldoze our culture. The left sees these causes as intertwined, and the right must understand that.
As working-class voters shift away from the Democratic Party, the left’s agenda becomes increasingly entangled with the interests of elites, from environmentalism to student loan bailouts to marriage to policing. Republicans should be shrewd enough to recognize the opportunity and smart enough to understand the stakes are higher than partisan politics.
Comments
Turner Ranches
With approximately two million acres of personal and ranch land, Ted Turner is the second largest individual landholder in North America. Turner lands are innovatively managed to unite economic viability with ecological sustainability. Turner ranches operate as working businesses, relying on bison, hunting and fishing, and ecotourism as principal enterprises. In addition, Turner ranches support many progressive environmental projects including water resource and timber management, and the reintroduction of native species to the land.
Turner Enterprises also manages over 45,000 bison across the various Turner ranches.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — Thundering gas-powered muscle cars, for decades a fixture of American culture, will be closing in on their final Saturday-night cruises in the coming years as automakers begin replacing them with super-fast cars that run on batteries.
Stellantis' Dodge brand, long the performance flag-bearer of the company formerly known as Fiat Chrysler, is officially moving toward electricity. On Wednesday night, Dodge unveiled a battery-powered Charger Daytona SRT concept car, which is close to one that will be produced in 2024 as the sun sets on some petroleum models.
Stellantis says it will stop making gasoline versions of the Dodge Challenger and Charger muscle cars and the Chrysler 300 large car by the end of next year. The Canadian factory that makes them will be converted to electric vehicles. Other automakers are moving — or have moved — in the same direction.
General Motors has said it will build an all-electric Chevrolet Corvette. Tesla says its Model S Plaid version is the fastest production vehicle made, able to go from zero to 60 mph (97 kilometers per hour) in under 2 seconds. Audi, Mercedes, Porsche and other European automakers already have high-performance electric models on sale. And Polestar, an electric-performance spinoff from Volvo, just announced a new Polestar 6 roadster for 2026.
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One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.
Stricter government pollution requirements are another factor, too. As automakers in the U.S. face more stringent fuel-economy requirements adopted by the Biden administration and produce a broader range of EV vehicles, they will have to jettison some of their gas-fueled muscle-car models.
Tim Kuniskis, CEO of the Dodge brand, said the possibly of government fines for not meeting gas-mileage requirements hastened the shift to the electric Charger. “Compliance fines and things like that associated with a big cast-iron supercharged V8, yes, it's tough,” he said.
Still, it will take a few years for the gas-powered classics to go away.
“Over the next several years, I think we’ll continue to have some internal combustion stuff, probably through most of the decade,” said Sam Abuelsamid, a research analyst at Guidehouse Insights. “But increasingly, the focus is going to be on the electric ones.”
Under new gas-mileage standards that were unveiled in April, the fleet of new vehicles will have to average around 40 miles per gallon in 2026, up from 25.4 mpg now, the EPA says. The standards are likely to become even stronger in the future, a trend that will compel U.S.-based automakers to shed some gasoline muscle cars if they are to avoid fines.
Of all major automakers, the EPA says, Stellantis had the lowest average fuel economy — 21.3 miles per gallon — and the highest average carbon dioxide emissions. So the company likely will have to eliminate some models to avoid fines. Its limited-edition Charger SRT Widebody, with a supercharged 6.2-liter Hemi Hellcat V-8, for instance, gets only 12 mpg in city driving and 21 mpg on the highway.
To many gearheads, the thought of a muscle car without noise and smells is heresy. But Kuniskis says Dodge is working hard to make the electric experience match internal combustion. The Charger, he said, will generate its own air flow to make an exhaust noise that rivals gas performance cars. And the transmission will shift gears.
When the electric Charger was driven through a garage door and entered a building Wednesday night at a racetrack in Pontiac, Michigan, it roared just like a gas muscle car.
Electric vehicles, Kuniskis said, have the potential to perform better than gas muscle cars with fast acceleration. But he said they are kind of sterile. “It doesn't have the emotion. It doesn't have the drama. It doesn't have the kind of dangerous feeling that ICE (an internal combustion engine) has when it's loud and rumbling and shifting and moving the car around.”
Kuniskis wouldn't say how fast the electric Charger will go from zero to 60 mph, but said it would be faster than the company's current petroleum performance cars. He also wouldn't say the range-per-charge for the new Challenger, but added that range isn't as important as making it a true muscle car.
Rick Nelson, the owner of Musclecar Restoration & Design in Pleasant Plains, Illinois, near Springfield, cautioned that switching from loud fuel-burning engines to quiet electricity may be a hard sell to old-timers who grew up with the sounds and smells of racing.
Nelson, 61, said he restored his first car while a teenager and spent hours at drag strips. He acknowledged that the switch to electricity is inevitable and is needed to attract a new generation that has become used to quiet speed. Still, he said, electric muscle cars won't have manual shifters, and he'll miss the smell of racing fuel at the track.
Already, Nelson said, businesses are cropping up to put electric powertrains in classic muscle cars. He has been in touch with an engineer at Tesla about retrofitting batteries and electric motors into some classics.
“Guys like me are just going to frown on it and laugh at it,” Nelson said of electric muscle cars. “But this isn’t about my generation.”
Kuniskis says the shift to electricity doesn't mean the end of the muscle car. It's just a new era.
“It' s OK,” he said. “Let us show you what the future looks like.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Brian, that resurgence should happen one more go around with the 80's cars then after that I think we should be done unless we have a Fast and the Furious revival and everyone wants Civics and Supras?
that, they forgot to mention…
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I had an 80's Dodge Tradesman that was once in beautiful shape and had hoped to keep it as kind of a "classic" vehicle but one winter the roof vent leaked in a big storm and the interior was ruined. It was also getting really hard to find parts for and had issues no mechanic around here was willing to deal with.
Thankfully, I have a nephew who can fix just about anything so I gave it to him about 12 or 14 years ago. He stripped the interior, fixed the odd problems, and still uses it today up where he lives outside Seattle for recreation.
I used to call the van Mose but my nephew gave it an even better name: Van-Go.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
The biggest problem is that we car a car-culture society and are hell-bent on not giving up the lifestyle that dictates that everyone has their own car and everyone drives alone. Besides overpopulation, I would rate that- along with suburbia- as two of our biggest obstacles to overcoming environmental issues.
Electric vehicles are a bandage. They may be better than gas powered cars in some ways, but better the way scraping a vinyl record with cat claws is better than scraping it with a knife.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Snow crab have literally disappeared...
This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-crab-climate/
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Sounds like the cause of them disappearing- whatever it is- is some kind of serious ecosystem imbalance. Not all such imbalances are human caused, but knowing our track record that way, it is highly concerning.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
When the pollock and salmon numbers got low, we knew.
This could be very bad. It has me wondering about the plankton and fresh water movement in the ocean and if that has an effect? Warming waters?
We have sooo much information on things but can't find a smoking gun? Was there a damn volcano eruption?
One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.
Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry? They must migrated across the border fairly regularly. Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).
Just a thought. No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.
So many things to factor- changing currents, cahnging climate, acidification, too much micro plastic? Probably a combination of a bunch of things.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
They keep so much information hidden, it's hard to know, but certainly that could be the case.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
It was well known that their waters had an abundance of crab so they might have migrated that way too. My cousin worked on a Russian trawler and the amount of crab they caught was staggering.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-glacier-sea-level-climate/index.html
-EV 8/14/93
It has been melting for years though so unless it melts all at once I don't see anything catastrophic happening. Glaciers melt, that is what they do. If they all melt hen we have a problem but for right now we are holding on.
-EV 8/14/93
I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.
Probably more like a doomsyear or doomsdecade scenario. I don't think it will happen overnight. Just a SWAG on my part though.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
More rain could be a problem in some place. Sure would be welcome here though!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
When California asks people to buy electric vehicles, then tells them not to charge the cars, we witness more than fiscal stupidity. The middle class is being forced to shoulder the burden of a haphazard green agenda that squeezes regular Americans in the short term for the sake of achieving foolish long-term energy goals. California’s clumsy attempt to transition to renewable energy is mirrored nationally by the Biden administration.
Americans are paying higher prices now because of Biden’s regulatory war on fossil fuels. Senior Editor David Harsanyi put it well when he wrote, “Democrats are rigging the market to force you to buy a car that has a 200-mile reach and uses erratic and expensive energy when you already have increasingly efficient models in your driveway and tens of billions of easily accessible barrels of offshore fossil fuels here at home — and much more around the world.”
“We have centuries worth of the stuff waiting in the ground,” he added. “Which gives us enough time to come up with some better ideas.”
As David points out, a Berkeley study found over 90 percent of taxpayer subsidies for electric vehicles went to the top income quintile as of 2015. The numbers overall are striking. “Since 2006, U.S. households have received more than $18 billion in federal income tax credits for weatherizing their homes, installing solar panels, buying hybrid and electric vehicles, and other ‘clean energy’ investments,” wrote the authors. “We find that these tax expenditures have gone predominantly to higher-income Americans. The bottom three income quintiles have received about 10% of all credits, while the top quintile has received about 60%.”
Taxpayers have been funding subsidies for people who can already afford them. Money goes out of their paychecks and into their rich neighbors’ Chinese solar panels. Renewables in general will replace our dependence on OPEC with dependence on China. Alternatively, we could allow Americans to go about business as usual while eliminating excess emissions where it’s affordable (see: carbon capture), improving nuclear technology, and making other energy sources more efficient.
If countries like China and the quickly growing India don’t meet emission reduction goals, Americans will have suffered needlessly. China emits more greenhouse gases than every developed country combined.
Higher fuel prices don’t affect John Kerry like they affect the 58 percent of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. For the laptop class, much of which resides in walkable cities, an extra few bucks in gas or taxes is annoying but fine. For others, it’s enormous stress, it’s a second job, it’s less time with their children, more debt, or fewer drives to see relatives.
Overall, to put it bluntly, high-profile environmentalists want to normalize a world with fewer children, less steak, and less driving. That amounts to a war on American culture. It’s a political gift to Republicans and a moral imperative to fight. Not for the sake of cheap cuts of beef at Outback Steakhouse, but for the sake of communities and human flourishing.
When white-collar Republican politicians talk about “pain at the pump” this fall, what they’re really talking about is the consequence of a culture war on America’s middle class — one that burdens the unwashed masses with lifestyle sacrifices our elites can weather more easily or simply refuse to give up altogether.
Many wealthy policymakers and investors will profit majorly off the transition to “clean” energy while they force others to change their lives and fork over more of their paychecks. This is easy messaging for Republicans. Worried about culture warriors talking about Drag Queen Story Hours and abortion? First, don’t be. Second, consider “ESG” — environmental and social governance — as an all-encompassing corporate agenda to join forces with groups like Planned Parenthood to bulldoze our culture. The left sees these causes as intertwined, and the right must understand that.
As working-class voters shift away from the Democratic Party, the left’s agenda becomes increasingly entangled with the interests of elites, from environmentalism to student loan bailouts to marriage to policing. Republicans should be shrewd enough to recognize the opportunity and smart enough to understand the stakes are higher than partisan politics.