New SAT tests have "Adversity Scoring". Is this doing kids a disservice?

13

Comments

  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,821
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
    Formed around the farming calendar, maybe, but it’s changed since then, and when school districts have tried to reform the school year to remove the summer break it hasn’t been popular with parents. 

    Who knows what “mental training” even is? 

    Oz is mostly a quack. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,821
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
    Formed around the farming calendar, maybe, but it’s changed since then, and when school districts have tried to reform the school year to remove the summer break it hasn’t been popular with parents. 

    Who knows what “mental training” even is? 

    Oz is mostly a quack. 
    I liked the summer breaks too.  The other countries that excel in school past us?  They don't.

    Well being that mental health is a forefront for issues on everything to gun control, Michael Phelps and a myriad of others speaking about it and getting help I'm sure there is "mental training", or maybe I'm not saying it right or you just want to argue, I'm not sure?

  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    edited May 2019
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
    Formed around the farming calendar, maybe, but it’s changed since then, and when school districts have tried to reform the school year to remove the summer break it hasn’t been popular with parents. 

    Who knows what “mental training” even is? 

    Oz is mostly a quack. 
    I liked the summer breaks too.  The other countries that excel in school past us?  They don't.

    Well being that mental health is a forefront for issues on everything to gun control, Michael Phelps and a myriad of others speaking about it and getting help I'm sure there is "mental training", or maybe I'm not saying it right or you just want to argue, I'm not sure?

    I’m trying to understand what you’re saying. The phrase “mental training” is far too vague. Does it have something to do with mental health, as you suggest? Does it have something to do with more advanced cognitive techniques? I have no idea, so it’s not possible to really discuss it. 

    Dividing up the instructional hours more evenly over the school
    year would likely help students to not forget as much over the long break, but it’s a myth that the higher performing counties have more instructional hours overall in school. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,821
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
    Formed around the farming calendar, maybe, but it’s changed since then, and when school districts have tried to reform the school year to remove the summer break it hasn’t been popular with parents. 

    Who knows what “mental training” even is? 

    Oz is mostly a quack. 
    I liked the summer breaks too.  The other countries that excel in school past us?  They don't.

    Well being that mental health is a forefront for issues on everything to gun control, Michael Phelps and a myriad of others speaking about it and getting help I'm sure there is "mental training", or maybe I'm not saying it right or you just want to argue, I'm not sure?

    I’m trying to understand what you’re saying. The phrase “mental training” is far too vague. Does it have something to do with mental health, as you suggest? Does it have something to do with more advanced cognitive techniques? I have no idea, so it’s not possible to really discuss it. 

    Dividing up the instructional hours more evenly over the school
    year would likely help students to not forget as much over the long break, but it’s a myth that the higher performing counties have more instructional hours overall in school. 
    Ahhh yes, first one is about "mental health".

    2nd, not talking about how many hours they do but in that they don't have a summer break and perform better.

    I just tried looking up country rankings for schools and a few listed USA as the best  schooling in the world.  How is that possible?

    Also never saw Barbados listed on any of the lists.  When I was living there it boasted a 98% literacy rate.  That was very impressive.
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
    Formed around the farming calendar, maybe, but it’s changed since then, and when school districts have tried to reform the school year to remove the summer break it hasn’t been popular with parents. 

    Who knows what “mental training” even is? 

    Oz is mostly a quack. 
    I liked the summer breaks too.  The other countries that excel in school past us?  They don't.

    Well being that mental health is a forefront for issues on everything to gun control, Michael Phelps and a myriad of others speaking about it and getting help I'm sure there is "mental training", or maybe I'm not saying it right or you just want to argue, I'm not sure?

    I’m trying to understand what you’re saying. The phrase “mental training” is far too vague. Does it have something to do with mental health, as you suggest? Does it have something to do with more advanced cognitive techniques? I have no idea, so it’s not possible to really discuss it. 

    Dividing up the instructional hours more evenly over the school
    year would likely help students to not forget as much over the long break, but it’s a myth that the higher performing counties have more instructional hours overall in school. 
    Ahhh yes, first one is about "mental health".

    2nd, not talking about how many hours they do but in that they don't have a summer break and perform better.

    I just tried looking up country rankings for schools and a few listed USA as the best  schooling in the world.  How is that possible?

    Also never saw Barbados listed on any of the lists.  When I was living there it boasted a 98% literacy rate.  That was very impressive.

    Which sites listed the US as the best schooling in the world, which parameters were they using, and which educational level were they looking at? The US has some good universities, certainly, but I never see it scoring highly in measurements of literacy, math or science competency. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,184
    edited May 2019
    oftenreading said:
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    Their curriculum is way different than ours. I would say theirs is a lot more shallow in terms of less things to teach so they can go deeper into each concept and spend more time on each one while we have to go over a heck of a lot more.  (At least that is what we have learned in workshops.)
     summer vacation is essential, kids need that break as well as teachers. However I would be willing to try an alternate schedule like teach two months then two weeks off (or whatever it may be).  I know a big hang up is cost since every school doesn’t have air conditioning. 
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    Their curriculum is way different than ours. I would say theirs is a lot more shallow in terms of less things to teach so they can go deeper into each concept and spend more time on each one while we have to go over a heck of a lot more.  (At least that is what we have learned in workshops.)
     summer vacation is essential, kids need that break as well as teachers. However I would be willing to try an alternate schedule like teach two months then two weeks off (or whatever it may be).  I know a big hang up is cost since every school doesn’t have air conditioning. 

    Here's Finland ranking second in the world in math and reading, and first in the world in sciences, so I wonder if your description of their curriculum is accurate. Or maybe the US is spending a lot of time on unnecessary minutia. Whatever the difference is, it seems to be working. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,184
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    Their curriculum is way different than ours. I would say theirs is a lot more shallow in terms of less things to teach so they can go deeper into each concept and spend more time on each one while we have to go over a heck of a lot more.  (At least that is what we have learned in workshops.)
     summer vacation is essential, kids need that break as well as teachers. However I would be willing to try an alternate schedule like teach two months then two weeks off (or whatever it may be).  I know a big hang up is cost since every school doesn’t have air conditioning. 

    Here's Finland ranking second in the world in math and reading, and first in the world in sciences, so I wonder if your description of their curriculum is accurate. Or maybe the US is spending a lot of time on unnecessary minutia. Whatever the difference is, it seems to be working. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
    I'm thinking a lot has changed since 2010.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    Their curriculum is way different than ours. I would say theirs is a lot more shallow in terms of less things to teach so they can go deeper into each concept and spend more time on each one while we have to go over a heck of a lot more.  (At least that is what we have learned in workshops.)
     summer vacation is essential, kids need that break as well as teachers. However I would be willing to try an alternate schedule like teach two months then two weeks off (or whatever it may be).  I know a big hang up is cost since every school doesn’t have air conditioning. 

    Here's Finland ranking second in the world in math and reading, and first in the world in sciences, so I wonder if your description of their curriculum is accurate. Or maybe the US is spending a lot of time on unnecessary minutia. Whatever the difference is, it seems to be working. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
    I'm thinking a lot has changed since 2010.  

    Here's the 2015/2016 data, which appears to be the most recent. Finland still ranks right up there at 8, though Canada beats them now at 6 (woo hoo). USA at 31. 

    http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,184
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    Their curriculum is way different than ours. I would say theirs is a lot more shallow in terms of less things to teach so they can go deeper into each concept and spend more time on each one while we have to go over a heck of a lot more.  (At least that is what we have learned in workshops.)
     summer vacation is essential, kids need that break as well as teachers. However I would be willing to try an alternate schedule like teach two months then two weeks off (or whatever it may be).  I know a big hang up is cost since every school doesn’t have air conditioning. 

    Here's Finland ranking second in the world in math and reading, and first in the world in sciences, so I wonder if your description of their curriculum is accurate. Or maybe the US is spending a lot of time on unnecessary minutia. Whatever the difference is, it seems to be working. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
    I'm thinking a lot has changed since 2010.  

    Here's the 2015/2016 data, which appears to be the most recent. Finland still ranks right up there at 8, though Canada beats them now at 6 (woo hoo). USA at 31. 

    http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/
    Interesting how much the us has fallen, I wonder why. 

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,821
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
    Formed around the farming calendar, maybe, but it’s changed since then, and when school districts have tried to reform the school year to remove the summer break it hasn’t been popular with parents. 

    Who knows what “mental training” even is? 

    Oz is mostly a quack. 
    I liked the summer breaks too.  The other countries that excel in school past us?  They don't.

    Well being that mental health is a forefront for issues on everything to gun control, Michael Phelps and a myriad of others speaking about it and getting help I'm sure there is "mental training", or maybe I'm not saying it right or you just want to argue, I'm not sure?

    I’m trying to understand what you’re saying. The phrase “mental training” is far too vague. Does it have something to do with mental health, as you suggest? Does it have something to do with more advanced cognitive techniques? I have no idea, so it’s not possible to really discuss it. 

    Dividing up the instructional hours more evenly over the school
    year would likely help students to not forget as much over the long break, but it’s a myth that the higher performing counties have more instructional hours overall in school. 
    Ahhh yes, first one is about "mental health".

    2nd, not talking about how many hours they do but in that they don't have a summer break and perform better.

    I just tried looking up country rankings for schools and a few listed USA as the best  schooling in the world.  How is that possible?

    Also never saw Barbados listed on any of the lists.  When I was living there it boasted a 98% literacy rate.  That was very impressive.

    Which sites listed the US as the best schooling in the world, which parameters were they using, and which educational level were they looking at? The US has some good universities, certainly, but I never see it scoring highly in measurements of literacy, math or science competency. 
    I seriously don't know what to believe anymore...
    Here is 1 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education ranks it 2nd in a chart below the article.

    This one ranks the US pretty poorly http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/

    This one ranks us higher at 6th https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/07/the-10-most-educated-countries-in-the-world.html

    I guess it all depends on what criteria you base the scoring on which is funny considering my whole purpose of this thread was to discuss the introduction of different scoring criteria...


  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,821
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    Their curriculum is way different than ours. I would say theirs is a lot more shallow in terms of less things to teach so they can go deeper into each concept and spend more time on each one while we have to go over a heck of a lot more.  (At least that is what we have learned in workshops.)
     summer vacation is essential, kids need that break as well as teachers. However I would be willing to try an alternate schedule like teach two months then two weeks off (or whatever it may be).  I know a big hang up is cost since every school doesn’t have air conditioning. 

    Here's Finland ranking second in the world in math and reading, and first in the world in sciences, so I wonder if your description of their curriculum is accurate. Or maybe the US is spending a lot of time on unnecessary minutia. Whatever the difference is, it seems to be working. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
    I'm thinking a lot has changed since 2010.  

    Here's the 2015/2016 data, which appears to be the most recent. Finland still ranks right up there at 8, though Canada beats them now at 6 (woo hoo). USA at 31. 

    http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/
    Interesting how much the us has fallen, I wonder why. 

    Did it start w the "No child left behind" era?
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
    Formed around the farming calendar, maybe, but it’s changed since then, and when school districts have tried to reform the school year to remove the summer break it hasn’t been popular with parents. 

    Who knows what “mental training” even is? 

    Oz is mostly a quack. 
    I liked the summer breaks too.  The other countries that excel in school past us?  They don't.

    Well being that mental health is a forefront for issues on everything to gun control, Michael Phelps and a myriad of others speaking about it and getting help I'm sure there is "mental training", or maybe I'm not saying it right or you just want to argue, I'm not sure?

    I’m trying to understand what you’re saying. The phrase “mental training” is far too vague. Does it have something to do with mental health, as you suggest? Does it have something to do with more advanced cognitive techniques? I have no idea, so it’s not possible to really discuss it. 

    Dividing up the instructional hours more evenly over the school
    year would likely help students to not forget as much over the long break, but it’s a myth that the higher performing counties have more instructional hours overall in school. 
    Ahhh yes, first one is about "mental health".

    2nd, not talking about how many hours they do but in that they don't have a summer break and perform better.

    I just tried looking up country rankings for schools and a few listed USA as the best  schooling in the world.  How is that possible?

    Also never saw Barbados listed on any of the lists.  When I was living there it boasted a 98% literacy rate.  That was very impressive.

    Which sites listed the US as the best schooling in the world, which parameters were they using, and which educational level were they looking at? The US has some good universities, certainly, but I never see it scoring highly in measurements of literacy, math or science competency. 
    I seriously don't know what to believe anymore...
    Here is 1 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education ranks it 2nd in a chart below the article.

    This one ranks the US pretty poorly http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/

    This one ranks us higher at 6th https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/07/the-10-most-educated-countries-in-the-world.html

    I guess it all depends on what criteria you base the scoring on which is funny considering my whole purpose of this thread was to discuss the introduction of different scoring criteria...


    One of the answers is in the description of that first article, the one that ranks the US as second - it’s a “perception based study” - ie it’s based on opinion, not fact, and one is the opinion factors is whether someone would want to go to school in the US. So basically the “data” is irrelevant. You could ask a ton of people where they would like to go to school, but that has nothing to do with the quality of that education.  
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,184
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    Their curriculum is way different than ours. I would say theirs is a lot more shallow in terms of less things to teach so they can go deeper into each concept and spend more time on each one while we have to go over a heck of a lot more.  (At least that is what we have learned in workshops.)
     summer vacation is essential, kids need that break as well as teachers. However I would be willing to try an alternate schedule like teach two months then two weeks off (or whatever it may be).  I know a big hang up is cost since every school doesn’t have air conditioning. 

    Here's Finland ranking second in the world in math and reading, and first in the world in sciences, so I wonder if your description of their curriculum is accurate. Or maybe the US is spending a lot of time on unnecessary minutia. Whatever the difference is, it seems to be working. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
    I'm thinking a lot has changed since 2010.  

    Here's the 2015/2016 data, which appears to be the most recent. Finland still ranks right up there at 8, though Canada beats them now at 6 (woo hoo). USA at 31. 

    http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/
    Interesting how much the us has fallen, I wonder why. 

    Did it start w the "No child left behind" era?
    Correct. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Also, the last article looks at percentage of college/university educated adults, which is a whole different issue. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,821
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    oftenreading said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mattsl1983 said:
    Why be surprised by this?  I bet you’ll be shocked in 10 years when you are paying an extra 10 percent in taxes for the reparation fund.  This is what happens when institutions are caught between extreme left and extreme ideologies.  I miss the days of moderate and common sense. 
    I just heard Dr Oz say that our school system is still based off of 1800's style of life.

    Pretty interesting if that's true.

    So maybe Devos is on to something?
    Referring to what aspects of life, though? That’s a pretty unspecific comment. There were actually many important educational reforms in the 19th century in the US, including the formation of public schools funded by a tax base rather than private schools, and public education of girls and young women.  
    He was referring to how archaic our system of learning still is and how it was formed around farming, hence the summer break for one .

    He also focused on how kids don't have any "mental" training.  I feel that is true too.
    Formed around the farming calendar, maybe, but it’s changed since then, and when school districts have tried to reform the school year to remove the summer break it hasn’t been popular with parents. 

    Who knows what “mental training” even is? 

    Oz is mostly a quack. 
    I liked the summer breaks too.  The other countries that excel in school past us?  They don't.

    Well being that mental health is a forefront for issues on everything to gun control, Michael Phelps and a myriad of others speaking about it and getting help I'm sure there is "mental training", or maybe I'm not saying it right or you just want to argue, I'm not sure?

    I’m trying to understand what you’re saying. The phrase “mental training” is far too vague. Does it have something to do with mental health, as you suggest? Does it have something to do with more advanced cognitive techniques? I have no idea, so it’s not possible to really discuss it. 

    Dividing up the instructional hours more evenly over the school
    year would likely help students to not forget as much over the long break, but it’s a myth that the higher performing counties have more instructional hours overall in school. 
    Ahhh yes, first one is about "mental health".

    2nd, not talking about how many hours they do but in that they don't have a summer break and perform better.

    I just tried looking up country rankings for schools and a few listed USA as the best  schooling in the world.  How is that possible?

    Also never saw Barbados listed on any of the lists.  When I was living there it boasted a 98% literacy rate.  That was very impressive.

    Which sites listed the US as the best schooling in the world, which parameters were they using, and which educational level were they looking at? The US has some good universities, certainly, but I never see it scoring highly in measurements of literacy, math or science competency. 
    I seriously don't know what to believe anymore...
    Here is 1 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/best-education ranks it 2nd in a chart below the article.

    This one ranks the US pretty poorly http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/

    This one ranks us higher at 6th https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/07/the-10-most-educated-countries-in-the-world.html

    I guess it all depends on what criteria you base the scoring on which is funny considering my whole purpose of this thread was to discuss the introduction of different scoring criteria...


    One of the answers is in the description of that first article, the one that ranks the US as second - it’s a “perception based study” - ie it’s based on opinion, not fact, and one is the opinion factors is whether someone would want to go to school in the US. So basically the “data” is irrelevant. You could ask a ton of people where they would like to go to school, but that has nothing to do with the quality of that education.  
     
    Agreed.  I didn't skim through the whole article and was fascinated to find the US so highly ranked.

    There was another article I glanced at that was just opinion too but I didn't include that one.
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,821
    mcgruff10 said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Finnish summer vacation lasts 2.5-3 months, and they beat almost everyone in reading, math and science. 
    Their curriculum is way different than ours. I would say theirs is a lot more shallow in terms of less things to teach so they can go deeper into each concept and spend more time on each one while we have to go over a heck of a lot more.  (At least that is what we have learned in workshops.)
     summer vacation is essential, kids need that break as well as teachers. However I would be willing to try an alternate schedule like teach two months then two weeks off (or whatever it may be).  I know a big hang up is cost since every school doesn’t have air conditioning. 

    Here's Finland ranking second in the world in math and reading, and first in the world in sciences, so I wonder if your description of their curriculum is accurate. Or maybe the US is spending a lot of time on unnecessary minutia. Whatever the difference is, it seems to be working. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/dec/07/world-education-rankings-maths-science-reading
    I'm thinking a lot has changed since 2010.  

    Here's the 2015/2016 data, which appears to be the most recent. Finland still ranks right up there at 8, though Canada beats them now at 6 (woo hoo). USA at 31. 

    http://factsmaps.com/pisa-worldwide-ranking-average-score-of-math-science-reading/
    Interesting how much the us has fallen, I wonder why. 

    Did it start w the "No child left behind" era?
    Correct. 
    I'm not in education but have enough friends that are and read enough to form the conclusion that I agree 100%.


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