The Democratic Candidates

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  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 11,683
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    dignin said:
    It's also important to throw shade on the false narrative that only Biden can beat Trump.

    Everyone likes to back a winner.
    There's lots of false shade.. this one deals with the fact that the media and twitter is not reflective of the Democratic coalition in age, education or region.  And it has a lot of truth to it.  

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/joe-biden-media-2020-1488835
    What's funny, and not in any way trying to be a smart ass, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb in saying that I'm fairly tapped into at least my local politics (Philly's politics and the surrounding area) and I've never seen a candidate get so much traditional support from the local politicos (ward leaders, Dem City & State Committee) and the sheer amount of money his team is pouring in (his national HQ is here for christsakes) - and his support, at least here, from a non-entrenched Dem level is no where near where he thinks it is. It's not a stretch to say he will lose this city.

    What about the suburbs and ex-burbs.  That's where PA will be won and lost.  
    See above. I also disagree. PA can be made up in Philly alone. I forget the number now, but I want to say PA was decided by ~44k. That can be made up here on its own. But, yes, I do not discount the need to get the women/moms in the 'burbs.
    Suburban men vote too, as does Pittsburgh.  Winning women by 20 and losing men by 25 is not a great recipe for a win.  
    Sure, again, not discounting that. But knowing the numbers and where turnout is headed in this city it can be made up here. Dems have about a 800-850k voter reg advantage in the state. And Pittsburgh/Alleghany County is incredibly blue as well. I also don't see him increasing his large variance in those rust belt counties from where they were in '16.
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,406
    edited September 12
    Big night. I’m hoping Evans goes off.(Yes, he’s in my ff team.) I know he was sick Sunday, so hopefully Tampa Bay can get in sync tonight. If Winston doesn’t turn the ball over they could be a decent team, but their run game is kinda weak. I have a hard time believing Carolina is going to start season 0-2.
    Oh, there’s also a debate. Have a good night y’all.

    Post edited by Hi! on
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,300
    mrussel1 said:
    dignin said:
    It's also important to throw shade on the false narrative that only Biden can beat Trump.

    Everyone likes to back a winner.
    There's lots of false shade.. this one deals with the fact that the media and twitter is not reflective of the Democratic coalition in age, education or region.  And it has a lot of truth to it.  

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/09/11/joe-biden-media-2020-1488835
    What's funny, and not in any way trying to be a smart ass, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb in saying that I'm fairly tapped into at least my local politics (Philly's politics and the surrounding area) and I've never seen a candidate get so much traditional support from the local politicos (ward leaders, Dem City & State Committee) and the sheer amount of money his team is pouring in (his national HQ is here for christsakes) - and his support, at least here, from a non-entrenched Dem level is no where near where he thinks it is. It's not a stretch to say he will lose this city.


    I'd take some action on that in a heartbeat.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,300
    dignin said:
    It's also important to throw shade on the false narrative that only Biden can beat Trump.

    Everyone likes to back a winner.

    The significant problem Democrats have is choices 2 and 3 (Liz and Bernie) support very extremist healthcare proposals. That might win a democrat nomination but how many general election swing states are going to get enthused by mandatory govt healthcare? Please use history as a guide.

    Does anybody recall 2012 and the word "mandate?" Anybody?

    I'd say Liz has another problem and that's Trump punched her into oblivion twice. She had no rebuttal to him mocking her own DNA test. It was HER IDEA AND HER TEST for crying  out loud. That's Dukakis level weak.

    I'd say she has a glass jaw but really he didnt punch her, he used a fly swatter.

    Notice trump has been a little quiet about Warren lately? Guess why.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,814
    Liz Warren triggering Ed Rendell is a feather in her cap as far as I'm concerned. 
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,406
    JimmyV said:
    Liz Warren triggering Ed Rendell is a feather in her cap as far as I'm concerned. 
    🤔
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,300
    ^ let's be honest, Trump is pulling for her to win the nom. For good reason 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 18,897
    I think an old white man, or any white man for that matter, has a much better chance of beating trump that any woman. unfortunately. 
    Headstones Fan Boy
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,406
    Bullock 2020
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,881
    Hi! said:
    Bullock 2020
    He's running?!

  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,300
    I think an old white man, or any white man for that matter, has a much better chance of beating trump that any woman. unfortunately. 

    Trump is exposed as being a rapist or thinking rape is funny and a month later the majority of white women vote for him.

    Should our expectations be any different?
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,300
    ^ My opinion of Liz is related mostly to her views could be held as extreme by swing state voters, and she did have a weak response to an attack she initiated.

    My opinion of Sanders is similar. He is a fierce counterattacker but his acceptance as being labeled a socialist is very concerning. 

    At least he should explain that he is a social democrat and define the difference for the voters.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,300
    “1/1024th Native American, 100% Liar,” which quoted its deputy chief of staff Mike Reed as saying, Warren "lied about being [Native American] to gain minority status at a time when Ivy League law schools were desperate to add diversity to their ranks.” 

    ....

    Do I agree with that? No. 

    But I do know it will represent 75% of her news coverage if she is the nominee. 

    The other 25%...begins  with an S.
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 11,683
    JimmyV said:
    Liz Warren triggering Ed Rendell is a feather in her cap as far as I'm concerned. 
    Yyyyyup
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,406
    I think they are called headdresses or war bonnets.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,814
    edited September 12
    Anyone who votes for Trump over Warren and tries to claim it was because of her native American "lie" is both a liar themselves and someone who was extremely unlikely to support a Democrat in 2020.
    Post edited by JimmyV on
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,300
    edited September 12
    JimmyV said:
    Anyone who votes for Trump over Warren and tries to claim it was because of her native American "lie" is both a liar themselves and someone who was extremely unlikely to support a Democrat in 2020.
    It's not about her lying per se, it's about her lack of proven talent fighting off a brutal personal attack.

    We all know she will need to excel at this against trump. Biden is folksy and relates  well to middle America.  That's how he gets swing state votes. Liz promises free stuff which just does not work with these voters 

    The GOP literally convinced active military members that Hillarys email was a threat to national security and then that she was a liar based on her lack of technical proxy server knowledge. Then they convinced the overwhelming majority of swing states to vote trump.

    I'm with you in theory JV but I'm getting a sinking feeling about this election based on Democrats apparent short memory

    Trump is the fiercest campaigner probably of all time and they got Liz in a big lie just like Hilary and native Americans support THEM.

    It took Liz years to apologize, which she refused to do until she was boxed in a corner. They will harp on this EVERY DAY.

    If my fellow dems can give me an example of her ability to counter vicious GOP personal attacks, only then would I even think of supporting her over biden. I really wish dems wisen up about her before it's too late 
    Post edited by Lerxst1992 on
  • JimmyV said:
    Anyone who votes for Trump over Warren and tries to claim it was because of her native American "lie" is both a liar themselves and someone who was extremely unlikely to support a Democrat in 2020.
    It's not about her lying per se, it's about her lack of proven talent fighting off a brutal personal attack.

    We all know she will need to excel at this against trump. Biden is folksy and relates  well to middle America.  That's how he gets swing state votes. Liz promises free stuff which just does not work with these voters 

    The GOP literally convinced active military members that Hillarys email was a threat to national security and then that she was a liar based on her lack of technical proxy server knowledge. Then they convinced the overwhelming majority of swing states to vote trump.

    I'm with you in theory JV but I'm getting a sinking feeling about this election based on Democrats apparent short memory

    Trump is the fiercest campaigner probably of all time and they got Liz in a big lie just like Hilary and native Americans support THEM.

    It took Liz years to apologize, which she refused to do until she was boxed in a corner. They will harp on this EVERY DAY.

    If my fellow dems can give me an example of her ability to counter vicious GOP personal attacks, only then would I even think of supporting her over biden. I really wish dems wisen up about her before it's too late 
    I hear what you’re saying but I wonder how well Biden can do with countering GOP attacks too. It’s been painful watching him campaign, and the hard part hasn’t even started yet. 

    I get a sense from him that he doesn’t even wanna run, but he’s doing it cause he knows Trump is so awful and he has the best shot with moderates and anti-Trump republicans in a general election...if he makes it that far. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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  • Surprised this thread wasn’t active tonight with a debate going on.
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,814
    In no real order other than how they come to mind before my coffee kicks in this morning:

    Liz Warren disappeared at times last night. Particularly in the gun control section. 

    I like Booker's passion but he seems to consistently have the least substantive answers.

    Beto's position on buybacks was both shocking and relieving to hear. It's the first time I can remember a candidate not waffling and saying "Yes, we will be taking those guns."

    Biden again seems so old. Castro's attack was vicious and uncalled for, but Joe continues to struggle with his words.

    I've liked Castro but I think his candidacy for the Vice Presidency ended last night.

    How do I get my freedom dividend? Can I get it now? Is your contest no purchase necessary?

    Bernie is angry. So are a lot of us. He remains someone who has been on the right side of history and almost every fight he has ever been in, but he too comes across as so old. I don't see it winning this nomination or beating Trump.

    Mayor Pete felt like he may be four years too early, but it might be in the same way I thought Barack Obama was four years too early at this same time in 2007. There is a lot to like there.

    Amy Klobuchar succeeds at coming across like one of the nicest people in politics and it might be because she genuinely is one of the nicest people in politics. I love the Midwest.

    Kamala Harris dodged too often for my liking. "What would you do?" pivoted to Trump more than once. Yes, it's important to remember he needs to be beaten but he's not on the primary ballot.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,586
    I missed the beginning and the end.  My perspective from the middle:

    Biden - Joe continues to struggle.  He is trying to balance showing energy and talking fast with actually saying meaningful things.  He is struggling.  The debate stage is not his friend.

    Bernie - angry old man. 

    Warren - did a nice job but seemed to have less time then I would have thought (so did bernie actually).  She tones down her anger to a below-bernie level and is able to get out words when talking fast.  She beats Bernie and Joe here.

    Harris - had some of the funniest lines. I know it shouldn't matter, but she often sounds like she is slurry words...drunk.  Weird and hard to listen to at times.  I thought they (the panel) attacked her pretty hard on her actually being a liberal working in a system and not just pie in the sky ideas.  They seem to hate her being too moderate.

    Pete - love the guy, super smart answers again but didn't shine.  He's more of a steady leader we actually need but people won't vote for this time around I do not think.  Was hoping he would kill it.

    Booker - really comes alive on the gun issue.  making himself into a strong VP candidate once his campaign dissolves, and it will.

    Castro - barely saw him speak except for the attack on Joe about riding Obama coattails for wins and distancing on the losses.  Stupid attack.

    Yang - I honestly don't remember a thing.

    Amy - didn't get much time when I was watching.  She has a nice, calm, moderate approach.  So in a primary of running to the free everything...she stands little chance.

    Beto - this may sound bad, but he is really taking advantage of the shootings in Texas to revitalize his campaign.  He is finally not a robot, shows extreme passion.  Really making a move in my opinion, but I'm not the real target voter.  If he had started his campaign here, he would be sitting at #4 with an opportunity.  As it is, he stumbled out of the gate and unless Joe gives it up and his voters look elsewhere, I don't  see a path to victory for Beto.  

    I do wonder what this race would look like without Biden and Bernie.  Warren the likely leader...but who would the moderates choose?  Beto? Amy? 

    I really enjoyed the gun portion of the debate as it's one of my biggest issues and the one that I most align with the Democrats.  


    hippiemom = goodness
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,406
    Biden dominated.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,027
    I never figured Super Polygrip would figure into the democratic nomination.  =)
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,586
    Hi! said:
    Biden dominated.
    Really?  That's interesting.  Cause the part I saw he was mostly terrible.  How did he dominate?

    Like I said I missed the first 20 or so minutes and the last bit as well.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,406
    Hi! said:
    Biden dominated.
    Really?  That's interesting.  Cause the part I saw he was mostly terrible.  How did he dominate?

    Like I said I missed the first 20 or so minutes and the last bit as well.
    He controlled the healthcare debate, he had the energy, the first 20+ min were his strongest, which in a televised debate are probably most important. Yeah, he’s old. Bernie looked just as old and Warren didn’t inspire me at all. I thought Yangs little thing at beginning was inappropriate and Castro is a punk. Lol, IDK. Biden did well or at least exceeded expectations which as the front runner is important. Buddha didn’t do so well. IDK
  • Jearlpam0925Jearlpam0925 Deep South PhillyPosts: 11,683
    Hi! said:
    Biden dominated.
    Really?  That's interesting.  Cause the part I saw he was mostly terrible.  How did he dominate?

    Like I said I missed the first 20 or so minutes and the last bit as well.
    Ha, what people want to believe is so interesting. He did not, in fact, dominate.
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,406
    Hi! said:
    Biden dominated.
    Really?  That's interesting.  Cause the part I saw he was mostly terrible.  How did he dominate?

    Like I said I missed the first 20 or so minutes and the last bit as well.
    Ha, what people want to believe is so interesting. He did not, in fact, dominate.
    Lol, maybe a little exaggeration. How do you think he did? 
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,406
    Just got off the phone with my 70+ Yr. old parents to get their perspective.
    They liked Beto the best
    Thought Biden did well and think he’s probably best to go against Trump
    They really like Pete, but he can’t win
    They like the idea of Medicare for those who want it, not Medicare for all.(They have Pensions)
    They like Sanders, but thought he seems angry.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,586
    Hi! said:
    Just got off the phone with my 70+ Yr. old parents to get their perspective.
    They liked Beto the best
    Thought Biden did well and think he’s probably best to go against Trump
    They really like Pete, but he can’t win
    They like the idea of Medicare for those who want it, not Medicare for all.(They have Pensions)
    They like Sanders, but thought he seems angry.
    Did y'all only talk about the white males on stage? ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
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