The Democratic Candidates

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Being a native Californian (others living in the south west, I appreciate the Hispanic heritage that is a big part of this part of the country (Texas etc. could say the same).  I can understand why a governor or representative from these states would want to know a little Spanish.  But why is this such a big deal for a presidential candidate?  If it's about immigration, then why don't they also show off their prowess in Arabic and some of the African languages, etc. 

Meanwhile, they spend 7 minutes (ONLY) talking about global warming.  Politics is becoming more and more a crock of shit in this country.  Geee- suss!

In Canada about 20% of the population (almost all of them in one province) speak French. It is literally unheard of for a PM not to be fluent in both English and French, and they literally always switch between French and English for official announcements and speeches, and there is always a french language debate as well. This is not simply because French is one of our two official languages (the USA doesn't have an official language). It is simply out of respect for the fact that 20% of the population speaks French. 18% of Americans speak Spanish (spread out across several states), which easily makes it the second most spoken language in America (only about 0.3% speak Arabic). Doesn't it make sense that the presidential hopefuls all show a similar sign of respect for all those people? I think any respectable POTUS nominee should be fluent in Spanish, and that they really do need to do parts of all the debates in Spanish, or have a Spanish-only debate. If English were actually the official language of the country, I might not say that, although it certainly would still be appropriate. But English isn't the official language. So the fact that these people all made an effort to speak Spanish is quite meaningful IMO - it's about inclusion. That doesn't mean climate change isn't important. Of course it is. And yes, more time should have been spent on it. But it is the moderator who really could have changed that...

But then why just Spanish?  Why not French, since a big portion of the center was bought off cheap from the French via the Louisiana Purchase.  And since this country's railroads were built by the Chinese, so we need to add Cantonese and Mandarin as well.  And let's not forget that much of the country was built by the sweat of African slaves.  How many languages is that? 

Or here's an idea- how about we expect the president to be well spoken in English again, the way Obama was.  I would be happy with that.

I already said why (that was my point in saying that only 0.3% of Americans speak Arabic, for example). Because of the very large portion of the population that speaks it. It is the second most common language spoken in America by far. That warrants the heavier use of Spanish by the government IMO.

True, it's about 11%.    Not a huge percentage.  I'd rather the president spend his or her time learning more about pressing issues like... (yeah, that's right).

Meltdown99

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

When is Quebec leaving???

Hate the Nordiques....

LOL.  I should re-phrase those racist Quebecors who dislike Canada can catch a plane to their homeland France...the last big separatist movement, the Mohawks made it clear that Quebec was their land and no way they were leaving Canada...and they are right...if the 1st nations are willing to make Canada work...then no reason Quebec can't...after all they leech off the rest of Canada...

Spiritual_Chaos

IF NO ONE SPEAKS SPANISH TONIGHT I'M GONNA BE FUMING!

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Being a native Californian (others living in the south west, I appreciate the Hispanic heritage that is a big part of this part of the country (Texas etc. could say the same).  I can understand why a governor or representative from these states would want to know a little Spanish.  But why is this such a big deal for a presidential candidate?  If it's about immigration, then why don't they also show off their prowess in Arabic and some of the African languages, etc. 

Meanwhile, they spend 7 minutes (ONLY) talking about global warming.  Politics is becoming more and more a crock of shit in this country.  Geee- suss!

In Canada about 20% of the population (almost all of them in one province) speak French. It is literally unheard of for a PM not to be fluent in both English and French, and they literally always switch between French and English for official announcements and speeches, and there is always a french language debate as well. This is not simply because French is one of our two official languages (the USA doesn't have an official language). It is simply out of respect for the fact that 20% of the population speaks French. 18% of Americans speak Spanish (spread out across several states), which easily makes it the second most spoken language in America (only about 0.3% speak Arabic). Doesn't it make sense that the presidential hopefuls all show a similar sign of respect for all those people? I think any respectable POTUS nominee should be fluent in Spanish, and that they really do need to do parts of all the debates in Spanish, or have a Spanish-only debate. If English were actually the official language of the country, I might not say that, although it certainly would still be appropriate. But English isn't the official language. So the fact that these people all made an effort to speak Spanish is quite meaningful IMO - it's about inclusion. That doesn't mean climate change isn't important. Of course it is. And yes, more time should have been spent on it. But it is the moderator who really could have changed that...

But then why just Spanish?  Why not French, since a big portion of the center was bought off cheap from the French via the Louisiana Purchase.  And since this country's railroads were built by the Chinese, so we need to add Cantonese and Mandarin as well.  And let's not forget that much of the country was built by the sweat of African slaves.  How many languages is that? 

Or here's an idea- how about we expect the president to be well spoken in English again, the way Obama was.  I would be happy with that.

I already said why (that was my point in saying that only 0.3% of Americans speak Arabic, for example). Because of the very large portion of the population that speaks it. It is the second most common language spoken in America by far. That warrants the heavier use of Spanish by the government IMO.

True, it's about 11%.    Not a huge percentage.  I'd rather the president spend his or her time learning more about pressing issues like... (yeah, that's right).

More people speak Spanish in America than people do in Spain. It's tens of millions of people. And more all the time. Plus sharing a border with Mexico. Plus Puerto Rico. Add to that all the English speakers who are also fluent in Spanish - many, many millions more. 20% of NYC speaks Spanish. These are not insignificant numbers. I'm not suggesting that those running right now who can't speak Spanish sign up for language lessons. Too little too late.

Hi!

Spiritual_Chaos said:

So, what is everyone eating and drinking for tonights debate? 

Weed, water and rainbow sherbet

mrussel1

RYME said:

It's amazing to me that nobody gives a s*** about what John Delaney had to say about Healthcare.  He is correct that medicare for all won't work.

I do. And I think he's right... today.  And that's the important part.  Maybe we get there someday but for now let's deal with our cost structure and uninsured.  Medicare for all is a losing issue.  And I like Delaney.

brianlux

Spiritual_Chaos said:

IF NO ONE SPEAKS SPANISH TONIGHT I'M GONNA BE FUMING!

Why?  This whole speaking Spanish thing is starting to sound like political correctness gone into over drive.  Will you be fuming just as much if global warming isn't given more time (you know I will be).   That's way more important to EVERYBODY!

And don't get me wrong- I'm a big fan of our Hispanic citizens and neighbors to the south and their culture.  I know a fair amount of Spanish language myself, amigos y amigas.   And, in fact, as I write this, I'm eating fajitas.  (Hope I don't spill any into the keyboard!)

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

IF NO ONE SPEAKS SPANISH TONIGHT I'M GONNA BE FUMING!

Why?  This whole speaking Spanish thing is starting to sound like political correctness gone into over drive.  Will you be fuming just as much if global warming isn't given more time (you know I will be).   That's way more important to EVERYBODY!

And don't get me wrong- I'm a big fan of our Hispanic citizens and neighbors to the south and their culture.  I know a fair amount of Spanish language myself, amigos y amigas.   And, in fact, as I write this, I'm eating fajitas.  (Hope I don't spill any into the keyboard!)

People speaking Spanish isn't eating up time though, so what's the problem with it? I truly don't understand why anyone minds it. Like, okay okay, "identity politics"... soooo..... speaking a very common language used in America is irritating to people because it is meant to appeal to those who speak it?

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

IF NO ONE SPEAKS SPANISH TONIGHT I'M GONNA BE FUMING!

Why?  This whole speaking Spanish thing is starting to sound like political correctness gone into over drive.  Will you be fuming just as much if global warming isn't given more time (you know I will be).   That's way more important to EVERYBODY!

And don't get me wrong- I'm a big fan of our Hispanic citizens and neighbors to the south and their culture.  I know a fair amount of Spanish language myself, amigos y amigas.   And, in fact, as I write this, I'm eating fajitas.  (Hope I don't spill any into the keyboard!)

People speaking Spanish isn't eating up time though, so what's the problem with it? I truly don't understand why anyone minds it. Like, okay okay, "identity politics"... soooo..... speaking a very common language used in America is irritating to people because it is meant to appeal to those who speak it?

People speaking Spanish is not irritating to me.  But I don't think 11% is very common.  In California, yes.  New Mexico, Arizona and Texas yes.  Those who govern those states would do well to know some Spanish.  But the POTUS?  If he or she does, fine.  If not, fine.  There are much bigger issues.  Why has this become such a big issue?  I don't get it. 

Hi!

RYME said:

It's amazing to me that nobody gives a s*** about what John Delaney had to say about Healthcare.  He is correct that medicare for all won't work.

I didn’t even know who he was until last night and I was impressed. I appreciate his level headedness. Just imagine if the moderators had quit interrupting and let him talk. It was frustrating. 

dignin

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

IF NO ONE SPEAKS SPANISH TONIGHT I'M GONNA BE FUMING!

Why?  This whole speaking Spanish thing is starting to sound like political correctness gone into over drive.  Will you be fuming just as much if global warming isn't given more time (you know I will be).   That's way more important to EVERYBODY!

And don't get me wrong- I'm a big fan of our Hispanic citizens and neighbors to the south and their culture.  I know a fair amount of Spanish language myself, amigos y amigas.   And, in fact, as I write this, I'm eating fajitas.  (Hope I don't spill any into the keyboard!)

People speaking Spanish isn't eating up time though, so what's the problem with it? I truly don't understand why anyone minds it. Like, okay okay, "identity politics"... soooo..... speaking a very common language used in America is irritating to people because it is meant to appeal to those who speak it?

Yeah, I really don't see the issue. Everyone is trying to separate themselves from the pack of 20 and stand out.

Maybe it is because we come from a country with two official languages? Even though I speak virtually no french, which I think is a failure of our education system. I shouldn't of had a choice dammit!

njnancy

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

Being a native Californian (others living in the south west, I appreciate the Hispanic heritage that is a big part of this part of the country (Texas etc. could say the same).  I can understand why a governor or representative from these states would want to know a little Spanish.  But why is this such a big deal for a presidential candidate?  If it's about immigration, then why don't they also show off their prowess in Arabic and some of the African languages, etc. 

Meanwhile, they spend 7 minutes (ONLY) talking about global warming.  Politics is becoming more and more a crock of shit in this country.  Geee- suss!

In Canada about 20% of the population (almost all of them in one province) speak French. It is literally unheard of for a PM not to be fluent in both English and French, and they literally always switch between French and English for official announcements and speeches, and there is always a french language debate as well. This is not simply because French is one of our two official languages (the USA doesn't have an official language). It is simply out of respect for the fact that 20% of the population speaks French. 18% of Americans speak Spanish (spread out across several states), which easily makes it the second most spoken language in America (only about 0.3% speak Arabic). Doesn't it make sense that the presidential hopefuls all show a similar sign of respect for all those people? I think any respectable POTUS nominee should be fluent in Spanish, and that they really do need to do parts of all the debates in Spanish, or have a Spanish-only debate. If English were actually the official language of the country, I might not say that, although it certainly would still be appropriate. But English isn't the official language. So the fact that these people all made an effort to speak Spanish is quite meaningful IMO - it's about inclusion. That doesn't mean climate change isn't important. Of course it is. And yes, more time should have been spent on it. But it is the moderator who really could have changed that...

But then why just Spanish?  Why not French, since a big portion of the center was bought off cheap from the French via the Louisiana Purchase.  And since this country's railroads were built by the Chinese, so we need to add Cantonese and Mandarin as well.  And let's not forget that much of the country was built by the sweat of African slaves.  How many languages is that? 

Or here's an idea- how about we expect the president to be well spoken in English again, the way Obama was.  I would be happy with that.

I already said why (that was my point in saying that only 0.3% of Americans speak Arabic, for example). Because of the very large portion of the population that speaks it. It is the second most common language spoken in America by far. That warrants the heavier use of Spanish by the government IMO.

True, it's about 11%.    Not a huge percentage.  I'd rather the president spend his or her time learning more about pressing issues like... (yeah, that's right).

13% of eligible voters in 2020 are Latinos - highest ethnic or racial minority. 40 million Latinos live in the US. 

The debate was on NBC, MSNBC and Telemundo simultaneously so they were reaching out to Spanish audience watching on Telemundo. 

Or pandering, whatever it was, Telemundo had a less than 2 second delay in translation and when the candidates spoke in Spanish, the translators switched to English. They had a team of translators for each candidate and moderators and studied each of the candidates speaking styles, issue focus, etc. 

Pretty impressive. 

I love ya Brain, but no one is ignoring global warming. Or at least most of the Democratic party, candidates, Independents, etc are tuned into it - it is in the forefront of people's minds and top on their list of issues along with healthcare, etc. 

People care. It's not the Democrats that are ignoring what's going on and it's necessary for them to speak about many issues in a Presidential debate. Your passion is on point. Don't let it turn into negativity though, it is a passion for positivity. 

Hi!

brianlux said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

IF NO ONE SPEAKS SPANISH TONIGHT I'M GONNA BE FUMING!

Why?  This whole speaking Spanish thing is starting to sound like political correctness gone into over drive.  Will you be fuming just as much if global warming isn't given more time (you know I will be).   That's way more important to EVERYBODY!

And don't get me wrong- I'm a big fan of our Hispanic citizens and neighbors to the south and their culture.  I know a fair amount of Spanish language myself, amigos y amigas.   And, in fact, as I write this, I'm eating fajitas.  (Hope I don't spill any into the keyboar

It does seem to come off as a gimmick sometimes, 

I hear Trump Tower has the best taco salads. He loves Mexicans.

Spiritual_Chaos

Lets not go in circles. 

We have established Beto going into spanish the first thing he did was cringe. Haha.

BUT LETS HOPE BIDEN DOES IT TOO!

RYME

mrussel1 said:

RYME said:

It's amazing to me that nobody gives a s*** about what John Delaney had to say about Healthcare.  He is correct that medicare for all won't work.

I do. And I think he's right... today.  And that's the important part.  Maybe we get there someday but for now let's deal with our cost structure and uninsured.  Medicare for all is a losing issue.  And I like Delaney.

Well I'm obviously not a dem, but when the pendulum does swing your way which it will t always does.  I'd be more comfortable with people like John Delaney or Jay Inslee.  Spanish speaking is just blatent pandering, won't work.  That means they got nothing.
And there is nothing with making profit in the healthcare industry.
If bread Bakers don't make a profit then they won't bake bread and you won't be able to. get bread at the store.  If Pearl Jam didn't make a profit from selling T-shirts they wouldn't be selling T-shirts or tickets or anything else. Profiting is what makes the wheels of business spin.  There's nothing wrong with it.  Without profit there is no incentive to provide service or improve anything.

Lerxst1992

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mrussel1 said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

Let's be clear about something here on student loan debt. It is on a path that goes beyond this dumb label of just stamping people with a label of "oh, you knew what you were getting into." Stop with that shit right now. I paid my loans. Do I want future generations to continue on the trajectory it's currently on? Absolutely not. "Because I did it means everyone else should do it" is terrible logic. There is a problem. It needs to be fixed as it's not sustainable. But like everything in our world - people like to pretend something isn't their problem when they're not individually attached to the issue (usually a beautifully dystopic Libertarian viewpoint).

First, they need to get rid of subsidized loans - that's #1: subsidies only drive up costs. #2 - the cost of college and higher education is no where even fucking close to what it was 20, 30, 40 years ago. Hell, it's not even close to what it was 10 years ago. College is not supposed to be only an accessible benefit to the wealthy. #3 the benefit to the economy as a whole by putting more money in the wallets of the largest generation since the fucking garbage Boomers would outweigh any costs to taxpayers. 

#4 - while we're on the topic of what comes out of my wallet for taxes that I don't want to pay for - I could name an endless list of shit that I'd want my money back from right now instead of helping out higher education. Namely, we all bitch about this college plan shit (even though Warren's plan taxes the ultra wealthy of the wealthies to fund this) when it's a fucking drop in the ocean to how much of our actual dollars are taken out of our actual wallets for some garbage war going on somewhere that in no way benefits us whatsoever.

Do I think higher education should be free? Not at all, but the access and opportunity should be fair and equal. And it is not right now.

Warren is by far the most qualified candidate both in experience and, more importantly, detail of policy. She should have been given the keys to the CFPB, as she was the one who started it. Where Obama completely dropped the ball was by not dropping the hammer on large bank and investment firm execs ten years ago, and if Warren was actually heading the CFPB this would have happened. 

Student loans and subsidies are not not the problem.  It's the cost curve of education outpacing inflation is the problem.  I also don't understand how one argues that subsidies drive up cost,  unless you're arguing that it allows too many people to go to college,  thereby driving up the cost.  

Last,  no one has articulated how this loan forgiveness isn't a regressive tax.  In fact the Post had a long editorial today calling it a rich kid bailout.  I'll post it later,  but it is. 

But WHY are college costs increasing by about 2x the inflation rate? Because more people can pay for tuition because of widely available loans.

So why are loans widely available? Because they are guaranteed. 

That is the subsidy driving up demand and limiting supply and causing tuition to increase roughly double the inflation rate.

If Warren or Sanders think they are going to win the presidency with another giveaway, we are looking at 4 more years. Address the problem, the hidden subsidy of guarantees. 

I don't know how you run on a platform if reducing access to universities.  That's not a winner.  I also think there's more to it than just subsidies.  State appointed funding has been reduced in many cases and some make the case that the reduced tuition to underprivileged has passed on higher costs to full tuition students.  Then there's the arguments about amenities,  including targeted facilities for athletes.  My guess is it's some combination of all.  Subsidies and loan guarantees are a big part I'm sure.  

I agree it's a rock and hard place. If Warren is the nom and she starts promising free stuff like tuition and debt forgiveness, its 4 more years.

A smarter tactic would be to offer lower cost tuition for 2 year colleges and lower interest rates and extended terms. Even throw in some volunteering to pay down loans.

But free stuff? They'll get tagged socialist and its hello Blondie.

Lerxst1992

RYME said:

It's amazing to me that nobody gives a s*** about what John Delaney had to say about Healthcare.  He is correct that medicare for all won't work.

Canada and Australia literally have Medicare for all and it's literally called Medicare. And they both have less debt than us.

I don't support forcing ppl off private insurance and like Delaney, but thought he was incorrect on that point.

RYME

Spiritual_Chaos said:

RYME said:

It's amazing to me that nobody gives a s*** about what John Delaney had to say about Healthcare.  He is correct that medicare for all won't work.

Why not?

Because this country has 329 million people in it.  And that doesn't count all the undocumented.  That's why not.

oftenreading

RYME said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

RYME said:

It's amazing to me that nobody gives a s*** about what John Delaney had to say about Healthcare.  He is correct that medicare for all won't work.

Why not?

Because this country has 329 million people in it.  That's why not.

No, that’s not why not. Try again with an answer that has some evidence base to it. 

Lerxst1992

RYME said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

RYME said:

It's amazing to me that nobody gives a s*** about what John Delaney had to say about Healthcare.  He is correct that medicare for all won't work.

Why not?

Because this country has 329 million people in it.  That's why not.

329 million potential ratepayers.