The Democratic Candidates

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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    mrussel1 said:
    All live-saving medicines should be free for those who can not afford.  It's called being compassionate.  But for a US drug company to sell it for 300/vial is just greed, pure greed...
    We have Medicaid in this country for the poor.  I don't know who or where these vials would cost 300, but it wouldn't be for the poor.  I'd love more real details on this.  My guess is this either the price for someone who has chosen not to buy insurance I'm Obamacare or someone where that 300 is part of the insurance co pay/ co insurance that must be met before payouts in many employer plans.  For example. im responsible for the first 2k of medical then everything is basically free after that. 
    How poor do you have to be to be on Medicaid?  My understanding is that a vial last 5 days?  In Canada, a vial is $32...130-140/month as opposed to the US 1200 plus a month...That is just 100% pure fucking greed...and this has nothing to do with the US research and development...insulin was invented in Ontario, Canada by Banting and Best...at some point even you need to see that the US Pharmaceuticals are just pure greed...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 6,952
    Another point is that Medicaid is paid for by taxes? correct?  So I would think all you taxpayers should be pissed that your taxes $$$ are being used to line the pockets of greedy pharmaceuticals...but yes let's fight $15 minimum wage that might cost you a 25 cents more for a big mac.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,292
    mrussel1 said:
    All live-saving medicines should be free for those who can not afford.  It's called being compassionate.  But for a US drug company to sell it for 300/vial is just greed, pure greed...
    We have Medicaid in this country for the poor.  I don't know who or where these vials would cost 300, but it wouldn't be for the poor.  I'd love more real details on this.  My guess is this either the price for someone who has chosen not to buy insurance I'm Obamacare or someone where that 300 is part of the insurance co pay/ co insurance that must be met before payouts in many employer plans.  For example. im responsible for the first 2k of medical then everything is basically free after that. 
    Here is an article with more info on the issue of high insulin prices from the Harvard Political Review.

    https://harvardpolitics.com/united-states/how-insulin-became-unaffordable/

    Basically, insulin in the US is ridiculously expensive for everyone, unless you are very wealthy. Due to the way that the pharmaceutical companies are colluding with the insurance companies, it is extremely challenging even for someone with insurance to get their insulin paid for in a timely manner. The insurance companies regularly change which insulin they will cover and which they won't, based partly on what kickbacks they are getting from the companies, but they don't make this clear to anyone, leaving physicians having to spend hours on the phone with insurance company reps trying to figure out which insulin each patient's program will cover this month. There are no generic insulins, and thus no cheaper option. There is a "rebate" program - that goes to the insurance and pharma companies, not the patient who pays out of pocket. 

    The upper income limit for Medicaid coverage this year is about $19,500 for a single person. I can see that having to pay several hundred dollars a month  just for the insulin, let alone the supplies and the blood glucose monitors, if you make only $20,000 a year would be a challenge. 

    It's a racket.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,513
    mrussel1 said:
    All live-saving medicines should be free for those who can not afford.  It's called being compassionate.  But for a US drug company to sell it for 300/vial is just greed, pure greed...
    We have Medicaid in this country for the poor.  I don't know who or where these vials would cost 300, but it wouldn't be for the poor.  I'd love more real details on this.  My guess is this either the price for someone who has chosen not to buy insurance I'm Obamacare or someone where that 300 is part of the insurance co pay/ co insurance that must be met before payouts in many employer plans.  For example. im responsible for the first 2k of medical then everything is basically free after that. 
    Here is an article with more info on the issue of high insulin prices from the Harvard Political Review.

    https://harvardpolitics.com/united-states/how-insulin-became-unaffordable/

    Basically, insulin in the US is ridiculously expensive for everyone, unless you are very wealthy. Due to the way that the pharmaceutical companies are colluding with the insurance companies, it is extremely challenging even for someone with insurance to get their insulin paid for in a timely manner. The insurance companies regularly change which insulin they will cover and which they won't, based partly on what kickbacks they are getting from the companies, but they don't make this clear to anyone, leaving physicians having to spend hours on the phone with insurance company reps trying to figure out which insulin each patient's program will cover this month. There are no generic insulins, and thus no cheaper option. There is a "rebate" program - that goes to the insurance and pharma companies, not the patient who pays out of pocket. 

    The upper income limit for Medicaid coverage this year is about $19,500 for a single person. I can see that having to pay several hundred dollars a month  just for the insulin, let alone the supplies and the blood glucose monitors, if you make only $20,000 a year would be a challenge. 

    It's a racket.
    It is a racket, but it's also as I suspected earlier.  The person in the article aged out of his parents' insurance, and earned too much for medicaid, but not enough to pay for his own insurance (specifically the deductible).  This is the gap that expanded medicare/aid can assist, those that make too much for gov assistance today, but not enough to pay that hefty deductible.  Now if that deductible was paid through taxes instead, would that be better for the young man?  Maybe, maybe not.  That's really the crux of Sander/Warren argument, that it is better.  
    It's also a racket that there isn't a generic for insulin.  My mother is diabetic and is on medicare.  Her insulin is very reasonably priced.  A guy that works for me has type I (juvenile) diabetes.  He has a pump.  I'll find out how much he pays, since he is on my company's insurance.  I'm interested in this. 
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,292
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    All live-saving medicines should be free for those who can not afford.  It's called being compassionate.  But for a US drug company to sell it for 300/vial is just greed, pure greed...
    We have Medicaid in this country for the poor.  I don't know who or where these vials would cost 300, but it wouldn't be for the poor.  I'd love more real details on this.  My guess is this either the price for someone who has chosen not to buy insurance I'm Obamacare or someone where that 300 is part of the insurance co pay/ co insurance that must be met before payouts in many employer plans.  For example. im responsible for the first 2k of medical then everything is basically free after that. 
    Here is an article with more info on the issue of high insulin prices from the Harvard Political Review.

    https://harvardpolitics.com/united-states/how-insulin-became-unaffordable/

    Basically, insulin in the US is ridiculously expensive for everyone, unless you are very wealthy. Due to the way that the pharmaceutical companies are colluding with the insurance companies, it is extremely challenging even for someone with insurance to get their insulin paid for in a timely manner. The insurance companies regularly change which insulin they will cover and which they won't, based partly on what kickbacks they are getting from the companies, but they don't make this clear to anyone, leaving physicians having to spend hours on the phone with insurance company reps trying to figure out which insulin each patient's program will cover this month. There are no generic insulins, and thus no cheaper option. There is a "rebate" program - that goes to the insurance and pharma companies, not the patient who pays out of pocket. 

    The upper income limit for Medicaid coverage this year is about $19,500 for a single person. I can see that having to pay several hundred dollars a month  just for the insulin, let alone the supplies and the blood glucose monitors, if you make only $20,000 a year would be a challenge. 

    It's a racket.
    It is a racket, but it's also as I suspected earlier.  The person in the article aged out of his parents' insurance, and earned too much for medicaid, but not enough to pay for his own insurance (specifically the deductible).  This is the gap that expanded medicare/aid can assist, those that make too much for gov assistance today, but not enough to pay that hefty deductible.  Now if that deductible was paid through taxes instead, would that be better for the young man?  Maybe, maybe not.  That's really the crux of Sander/Warren argument, that it is better.  
    It's also a racket that there isn't a generic for insulin.  My mother is diabetic and is on medicare.  Her insulin is very reasonably priced.  A guy that works for me has type I (juvenile) diabetes.  He has a pump.  I'll find out how much he pays, since he is on my company's insurance.  I'm interested in this. 

    I've read that Medicare/Medicaid will not pay for pumps. Perhaps it views them as a luxury. 

    And yes, overall it would be better for people if there wasn't the patchwork "system" that is American health care. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 18,355
    edited August 12
    i have never given a fuck what any celebrity thinks just because of who they are/if i'm a fan. if they have something meaningful to say, i'd listen, just like if it was joe blow on the street. it's coincidence that my and pj's views are largely parallel. 

    i like the pumpkins but corgan is a fucking nutjob, for example. 

    one reason, however, i'm glad the real hugh dillon doesn't openly talk politics. lol
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,297
    August 28th is deadline for the 3rd debate qualifications to be met. 9 in right now, Castro and Gabbard both need to meet polling qualifications. Castro looks like he has best shot. I think he qualified in 3 poll so far, but needs 4. I think Gabbard needs 3 more qualifying polls. I was hoping she would make it in. 
    So the field, quite possibly being cut in half for debates, should relieve some frustration and maybe some candidates start to drop out officially and possibly give endorsements.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,481
    Hi! said:
    August 28th is deadline for the 3rd debate qualifications to be met. 9 in right now, Castro and Gabbard both need to meet polling qualifications. Castro looks like he has best shot. I think he qualified in 3 poll so far, but needs 4. I think Gabbard needs 3 more qualifying polls. I was hoping she would make it in. 
    So the field, quite possibly being cut in half for debates, should relieve some frustration and maybe some candidates start to drop out officially and possibly give endorsements.
    It would be great to be down to 9-10.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556






    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,513
    Im interested in hearing more from Tom Steyer 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556
    edited August 14
    Very soothing to listen to Yang



    Paraphrasing:

    "$1000 per month isn't socialism - it's capitalism where income doesn't start at zero. Businesses and consumers do better when we have money to spend"
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Hi!Hi! Posts: 1,297
    mrussel1 said:
    Im interested in hearing more from Tom Steyer 
    I’m down to hear him out. I think he’ll qualify for 3rd debate, only needs one more poll.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556

    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556
    Normal folks (truckers) being screwed over by Trump. How many more normal folks (workers) have this experience under Trump?


    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,343
    helluva work around......



    CANCÚN, Mexico — Donna Ferguson awoke in the resort city of Cancún before sunrise on a sweltering Saturday in July.

    She wasn’t headed to the beach. Instead, she walked down a short hallway from her Sheraton hotel and into Galenia Hospital.

    A little later that morning, a surgeon, Dr. Thomas Parisi, who had flown in from Wisconsin the day before, stood by Ms. Ferguson’s hospital bed and used a black marker to note which knee needed repair. “I’m ready,” Ms. Ferguson, 56, told him just before being taken to the operating room for her total knee replacement. For this surgery, she would not only receive free care, but would receive a check when she got home.

    The hospital costs of the American medical system are so high that it made financial sense for both a highly trained orthopedist from Milwaukee and a patient from Mississippi to leave the country and meet at an upscale private Mexican hospital for the surgery.

    Ms. Ferguson gets her health coverage through her husband’s employer, Ashley Furniture Industries. The cost to Ashley was less than half of what a knee replacement in the United States would have been. That’s why its employees and dependents who use this option have no out-of-pocket co-pays or deductibles for the procedure; in fact, they receive a $5,000 payment from the company, and all their travel costs are covered.

    Dr. Parisi, who spent less than 24 hours in Cancún, was paid $2,700, or three times what he would have received from Medicare, the largest single payer of hospital costs in the United States. Private insurers often base their reimbursement rates on what Medicare pays.

    ImageMs Fergusonrsquos surgery was Dr Thomas Parisirsquos first one in Cancuacuten He spent less than 24 hours there and was paid triple what Medicare would reimburse in the United States
    Ms. Ferguson’s surgery was Dr. Thomas Parisi’s first one in Cancún. He spent less than 24 hours there and was paid triple what Medicare would reimburse in the United States.CreditRocco Saint-Mleux for Kaiser Health News

    Ms. Ferguson is one of hundreds of thousands of Americans who seek lower-cost care outside the United States each year, with many going to Caribbean and Central American countries. For many, a key question is whether the facility offers quality care.

    In a new twist on medical tourism, a Denver company is tapping into this market. The company, North American Specialty Hospital, known as NASH, has organized treatment for a couple of dozen Americans at Galenia since 2017.

    Dr. Parisi, a graduate of the Mayo Clinic, is one of about 40 orthopedic surgeons in the United States who have signed up with NASH, to travel to Cancún on their days off to treat American patients. NASH is betting that having an American surgeon will alleviate concerns some people have about going outside the country, and persuade self-insured American employers to offer this option to their workers to save money and still provide high-quality care. NASH, a for-profit company that charges a fixed amount for each case, is paid by the employer or an intermediary that arranged the treatment.

    “It was a big selling point, having an American doctor,” Ms. Ferguson said.

    The American surgeons work closely with a Mexican counterpart and local nurses. NASH buys additional malpractice coverage for the American physicians, who could be sued in the United States by patients unhappy with their results.

    “In the past, medical tourism has been mostly a blind leap to a country far away, to unknown hospitals and unknown doctors with unknown supplies, to a place without U.S. medical malpractice insurance,” said James Polsfut, the chief executive of NASH. “We are making the experience completely different and removing as much uncertainty as we can.”



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,343
    continues....

    Medical tourism has been around for decades but has become more common in the past 20 years as more countries and hospitals around the world market themselves to foreigners.

    There are, of course, risks to going outside the country, including the headache of travel and the possibility that the standards of care may be lower than at home. If something goes wrong, patients will be far from family and friends who can help — and it might be more difficult to sue providers in other countries.

    Chasing Lower Costs

    The high prices charged at American hospitals make it relatively easy to offer surgical bargains in Mexico: In the United States, knee replacement surgery costs an average of about $30,000 — sometimes double or triple that — but at Galenia, it is only $12,000, said Dr. Gabriela Flores Teón, medical director of the facility.

    The standard charge for a night in the hospital is $300 at Galenia, Dr. Flores said, compared with $2,000 on average at United States hospitals.

    The other big savings is the cost of the medical device — made by a subsidiary of the New Jersey-based Johnson & Johnson — used in Ms. Ferguson’s knee replacement surgery. The very same implant she would have received at home costs $3,500 at Galenia, compared with nearly $8,000 in the United States, Dr. Flores said.

    Galenia is accredited by the international affiliation of the Joint Commission, which sets hospital standards in the United States. But to help doctors and patients feel comfortable with surgery here, NASH and Galenia worked to exceed those standards.

    That included adding an extra autoclave to sterilize instruments more quickly, using spacesuit-like gowns for doctors to reduce infection risk and having patients start physical therapy just hours after knee- or hip-replacement surgery.

    I. Glenn Cohen, a law professor at Harvard and an expert on medical tourism, called the model used by NASH and a few other similar operations a “clever strategy” to attack some of the perceived risks about medical tourism.

    “It doesn’t answer all concerns, but I will say it’s a big step forward,” he said. “It’s a very good marketing strategy.”

    Still, he added, patients should be concerned with whether the hospital is equipped for all contingencies, the skills of other surgical team members and how their care is handed off when they return home.

    Officials at Ashley Furniture, where Ms. Ferguson’s husband, Terry, is a longtime employee, said they had been impressed so far.

    “We’ve had an overwhelming positive reaction from employees who have gone,” said Marcus Gagnon, manager of global benefits and health at Ashley, a Wisconsin-based company that has 17,000 employees. Ms. Ferguson was the company’s 10th insured person to go to Cancún.

    Ashley also has sent about 140 employees or dependents for treatments at a hospital in Costa Rica, and together the foreign medical facilities have saved the firm $3.2 million in health costs since 2016, he said.

    “Even after the incentive payments and travel expenses, we still save about half the cost of paying for care in the United States,” Mr. Gagnon said. “It’s been a nice option — not a magic bullet — but a nice option.”

    NASH’s strategy has its skeptics.

    “Building a familiar culture in a foreign destination may be appealing to some American consumers, but I do not see it as a sustainable business,” said Irving Stackpole, a health consultant in Rhode Island. “It’s not unusual for people thinking about this to have doctors, family and friends who will see this as a high-risk undertaking.”

    Mr. Stackpole said only a limited number of Americans were willing — even with a financial incentive — to travel abroad, because most perceive the care won’t be as good.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,343
    continued...

    ‘You Are Nuts for Doing This’

    Ms. Ferguson’s knee started causing her trouble two years ago, and last autumn a doctor recommended replacing it. She is on her feet most of the day assembling furniture tool kits at her job at American Furniture Manufacturing in Ecru, Miss. Terry Ferguson mentioned the Cancún option he had heard about at work. The couple pay $300 a month in premiums for family health coverage.

    “I had a friend say, ‘You are nuts for doing this,’ but Dr. Parisi trained at Mayo, and you can’t do any better than that,” Ms. Ferguson said before the surgery. Also, having an American doctor meant that if something went wrong, she could file a malpractice suit in the United States, she added.

    IndusHealth, Ashley’s medical travel plan administrator, arranged for her to get a physical exam, X-rays and heart tests near her home to make sure she was a good candidate for surgery. It even had her see a dentist to make sure she didn’t have an infection that could complicate her recovery. Dr. Parisi reviewed some of those records before Ms. Ferguson headed to Cancún.

    The company also coordinated her medical care and made travel arrangements, including obtaining passports, airline tickets, hotel and meals for the couple.

    In Mexico, the day before surgery, Ms. Ferguson had more X-rays and had her blood drawn. After lunch, the couple met with Noemi Osorio, a nurse, who reviewed Ms. Ferguson’s schedule and showed her the physical therapy facilities. Later, they met Dr. Parisi and the rest of the medical team.

    “My job is pretty easy,” Dr. Parisi told her. “How you do over the next five or 10 years depends on how well you work with the physical therapy.”

    The surgery began at 8:20 the next morning. Dr. Daniel Rios, an orthopedic surgeon who practices full time in Cancún, worked with Dr. Parisi. Dr. Rios, who had done a fellowship at Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, checked on Ms. Ferguson for several days after the operation.

    By 9:30 a.m., the operation was over, and at 11 a.m. she left the recovery area. Dr. Parisi checked on her there. “Everything went great,” he told her before heading to the airport for his 2:30 flight home.

    Dr. Parisi said that the lack of English proficiency among some surgical staff members created “momentary delays,” but that the bilingual surgical assistant helped.


    A little more than three hours after the surgery, Ms. Ferguson was in her hospital room, and a physical therapist came and helped her out of bed. Using a walker, she gingerly took some steps to test her new knee. By the next morning, she was on crutches walking the hallway and was discharged before noon. She stayed at her hotel 10 additional days while having physical therapy twice a day at the hospital.

    “It’s been a great experience,” she said two days after the surgery. “Even if I had to pay, I would come back here because it’s just a different level of care — they treat you like family.”

    This article was produced in collaboration with Kaiser Health News, an editorially independent program of the Kaiser Family Foundation. The author is a reporter for Kaiser Health News.


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,201
    Very soothing to listen to Yang



    Paraphrasing:

    "$1000 per month isn't socialism - it's capitalism where income doesn't start at zero. Businesses and consumers do better when we have money to spend"


    Soothing? UBI approval polls at 26% while Medicare for all polls at 40%.

    You are really hoping for 4 more years?

    Source: NPR 7.22.19

    https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/743516166/npr-newshour-marist-poll-americans-not-sold-on-trump-or-democrats
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,513
    Very soothing to listen to Yang



    Paraphrasing:

    "$1000 per month isn't socialism - it's capitalism where income doesn't start at zero. Businesses and consumers do better when we have money to spend"


    Soothing? UBI approval polls at 26% while Medicare for all polls at 40%.

    You are really hoping for 4 more years?

    Source: NPR 7.22.19

    https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/743516166/npr-newshour-marist-poll-americans-not-sold-on-trump-or-democrats
    And if UBI is 1k, then by using our brains,  we can guess that inflation will make that 1k worth substantially less very soon. 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 15,556
    Very soothing to listen to Yang



    Paraphrasing:

    "$1000 per month isn't socialism - it's capitalism where income doesn't start at zero. Businesses and consumers do better when we have money to spend"


    Soothing? UBI approval polls at 26% while Medicare for all polls at 40%.

    You are really hoping for 4 more years?

    Source: NPR 7.22.19

    https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/743516166/npr-newshour-marist-poll-americans-not-sold-on-trump-or-democrats
    Where have I said anything about hoping anything?
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,603
    The Dems need to hang James Carville's sign (that hung in Clinton's campaign HQ) in the DNC office and send one to each of the candidates. It was the right formula for beating Bush. Bush had a 90% job performance approval rating in March 1991 after the Kuwait ground war. Forward to August 1992 and his disapproval rating was 64%. Ooops. A prevailing recession will do that. Here's what Carville hung in Clinton Campaign HQ:
    1. Change vs. more of the same.
    2. The economy, stupid
    3. Don't forget health care.
    If the Dems stick to a similar playbook, they can beat Drumpf. But if they try to get complicated or go for pie-in-the-sky promises, who knows. It is now time to really start pounding "The economy, stupid."
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,829
    jeffbr said:
    The Dems need to hang James Carville's sign (that hung in Clinton's campaign HQ) in the DNC office and send one to each of the candidates. It was the right formula for beating Bush. Bush had a 90% job performance approval rating in March 1991 after the Kuwait ground war. Forward to August 1992 and his disapproval rating was 64%. Ooops. A prevailing recession will do that. Here's what Carville hung in Clinton Campaign HQ:
    1. Change vs. more of the same.
    2. The economy, stupid
    3. Don't forget health care.
    If the Dems stick to a similar playbook, they can beat Drumpf. But if they try to get complicated or go for pie-in-the-sky promises, who knows. It is now time to really start pounding "The economy, stupid."
    That might be key.  I really wish the party had the ability to come together and say "let's be pragmatic; we need to beat this clown before any of the 'far left vs. moderate left' stuff can even be debated.  So let's attract the people in the middle that are turned off by him and might just vote against him given the way the economy is going."  

    I am on board with some of the "far left's" stuff.  Not all of it. Either way, save that shit for when you have more leverage and come together and take out a wannabe despot. I really believe Elizabeth Warren is the most qualified, but she's probably too into "free stuff" to beat Trump.
    1995 Milwaukee
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  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,201
    Very soothing to listen to Yang



    Paraphrasing:

    "$1000 per month isn't socialism - it's capitalism where income doesn't start at zero. Businesses and consumers do better when we have money to spend"


    Soothing? UBI approval polls at 26% while Medicare for all polls at 40%.

    You are really hoping for 4 more years?

    Source: NPR 7.22.19

    https://www.npr.org/2019/07/22/743516166/npr-newshour-marist-poll-americans-not-sold-on-trump-or-democrats
    Where have I said anything about hoping anything?


    That's my sarcastic outlook that extremely liberal campaign policies will push independent voters to Trump :=)
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,201

    OnWis97 said:
    jeffbr said:
    The Dems need to hang James Carville's sign (that hung in Clinton's campaign HQ) in the DNC office and send one to each of the candidates. It was the right formula for beating Bush. Bush had a 90% job performance approval rating in March 1991 after the Kuwait ground war. Forward to August 1992 and his disapproval rating was 64%. Ooops. A prevailing recession will do that. Here's what Carville hung in Clinton Campaign HQ:
    1. Change vs. more of the same.
    2. The economy, stupid
    3. Don't forget health care.
    If the Dems stick to a similar playbook, they can beat Drumpf. But if they try to get complicated or go for pie-in-the-sky promises, who knows. It is now time to really start pounding "The economy, stupid."
    That might be key.  I really wish the party had the ability to come together and say "let's be pragmatic; we need to beat this clown before any of the 'far left vs. moderate left' stuff can even be debated.  So let's attract the people in the middle that are turned off by him and might just vote against him given the way the economy is going."  

    I am on board with some of the "far left's" stuff.  Not all of it. Either way, save that shit for when you have more leverage and come together and take out a wannabe despot. I really believe Elizabeth Warren is the most qualified, but she's probably too into "free stuff" to beat Trump.

    Preach.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 13,513
    Steyer has gotten heat today for "buying his campaign".  The guy's wealth doesn't bother me.  He went on MSNBC a bit ago to defend himself, and did well.  I'm intrigued. 
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,292
    OnWis97 said:
    jeffbr said:
    The Dems need to hang James Carville's sign (that hung in Clinton's campaign HQ) in the DNC office and send one to each of the candidates. It was the right formula for beating Bush. Bush had a 90% job performance approval rating in March 1991 after the Kuwait ground war. Forward to August 1992 and his disapproval rating was 64%. Ooops. A prevailing recession will do that. Here's what Carville hung in Clinton Campaign HQ:
    1. Change vs. more of the same.
    2. The economy, stupid
    3. Don't forget health care.
    If the Dems stick to a similar playbook, they can beat Drumpf. But if they try to get complicated or go for pie-in-the-sky promises, who knows. It is now time to really start pounding "The economy, stupid."
    That might be key.  I really wish the party had the ability to come together and say "let's be pragmatic; we need to beat this clown before any of the 'far left vs. moderate left' stuff can even be debated.  So let's attract the people in the middle that are turned off by him and might just vote against him given the way the economy is going."  

    I am on board with some of the "far left's" stuff.  Not all of it. Either way, save that shit for when you have more leverage and come together and take out a wannabe despot. I really believe Elizabeth Warren is the most qualified, but she's probably too into "free stuff" to beat Trump.
    I don’t have a vote in this, but it does still kinda bug me that it seems it’s never the “right time” for progressive policies. Something else always has to be the focus first, and we’ll get to that equality and justice stuff later. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 15,343
    OnWis97 said:
    jeffbr said:
    The Dems need to hang James Carville's sign (that hung in Clinton's campaign HQ) in the DNC office and send one to each of the candidates. It was the right formula for beating Bush. Bush had a 90% job performance approval rating in March 1991 after the Kuwait ground war. Forward to August 1992 and his disapproval rating was 64%. Ooops. A prevailing recession will do that. Here's what Carville hung in Clinton Campaign HQ:
    1. Change vs. more of the same.
    2. The economy, stupid
    3. Don't forget health care.
    If the Dems stick to a similar playbook, they can beat Drumpf. But if they try to get complicated or go for pie-in-the-sky promises, who knows. It is now time to really start pounding "The economy, stupid."
    That might be key.  I really wish the party had the ability to come together and say "let's be pragmatic; we need to beat this clown before any of the 'far left vs. moderate left' stuff can even be debated.  So let's attract the people in the middle that are turned off by him and might just vote against him given the way the economy is going."  

    I am on board with some of the "far left's" stuff.  Not all of it. Either way, save that shit for when you have more leverage and come together and take out a wannabe despot. I really believe Elizabeth Warren is the most qualified, but she's probably too into "free stuff" to beat Trump.
    I don’t have a vote in this, but it does still kinda bug me that it seems it’s never the “right time” for progressive policies. Something else always has to be the focus first, and we’ll get to that equality and justice stuff later. 
    Johnson had a huge lift to get civil rights, voting act and the housing act passed. but he had the will to be the bully to get that shit done. since then, change for the better has come incrementally and when it was more than that , later Congresses gutted important legislation like Dodd Frank, Feingold McCain etc.....
    ACA was a shock to the system, one that initially had a public option. just an option that saw huge blowback so it was dropped to get it passed.  It was only possible because all both chambers and the admin were same party. 

    so unless you totally change the makeup of Congress as a whole to have veto proof majorities of far left progressives, you arent likely to see much of anything they currently propose get passed.


    I am more willing to hear and pay attention to whats possible/probable then empty promises......

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 1,201
    mickeyrat said:
    OnWis97 said:
    jeffbr said:
    The Dems need to hang James Carville's sign (that hung in Clinton's campaign HQ) in the DNC office and send one to each of the candidates. It was the right formula for beating Bush. Bush had a 90% job performance approval rating in March 1991 after the Kuwait ground war. Forward to August 1992 and his disapproval rating was 64%. Ooops. A prevailing recession will do that. Here's what Carville hung in Clinton Campaign HQ:
    1. Change vs. more of the same.
    2. The economy, stupid
    3. Don't forget health care.
    If the Dems stick to a similar playbook, they can beat Drumpf. But if they try to get complicated or go for pie-in-the-sky promises, who knows. It is now time to really start pounding "The economy, stupid."
    That might be key.  I really wish the party had the ability to come together and say "let's be pragmatic; we need to beat this clown before any of the 'far left vs. moderate left' stuff can even be debated.  So let's attract the people in the middle that are turned off by him and might just vote against him given the way the economy is going."  

    I am on board with some of the "far left's" stuff.  Not all of it. Either way, save that shit for when you have more leverage and come together and take out a wannabe despot. I really believe Elizabeth Warren is the most qualified, but she's probably too into "free stuff" to beat Trump.
    I don’t have a vote in this, but it does still kinda bug me that it seems it’s never the “right time” for progressive policies. Something else always has to be the focus first, and we’ll get to that equality and justice stuff later. 
    Johnson had a huge lift to get civil rights, voting act and the housing act passed. but he had the will to be the bully to get that shit done. since then, change for the better has come incrementally and when it was more than that , later Congresses gutted important legislation like Dodd Frank, Feingold McCain etc.....
    ACA was a shock to the system, one that initially had a public option. just an option that saw huge blowback so it was dropped to get it passed.  It was only possible because all both chambers and the admin were same party. 

    so unless you totally change the makeup of Congress as a whole to have veto proof majorities of far left progressives, you arent likely to see much of anything they currently propose get passed.


    I am more willing to hear and pay attention to whats possible/probable then empty promises......



    This is an important point that LizBernie supporters need to get.

    To pass dramatic changes to our economy and culture there needs to overwhelming demand for it. Big big waves.

    Current polling indicates tepid MFA support, depending how the question is asked. When its explained you will be forced to give up private insurance, taxes go up and wait times increased, support plummets.
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