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The Democratic Candidates

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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited August 2019
    Should be noted that the countries spending half - also live longer. So you're paying double - to live shorter and having more of your children dying at birth.

    Start seeing the picture. It's getting a bit ridiculous to be honest. 

    #Inslee2020
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    fifefife Posts: 3,327
    I guess this has turned into a health care thread now so here is a question for people who may not want a Universal health care system.  if you had the power, how would you want your health care to work?  do you like how its is run now?  what changes would you make. 


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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited August 2019
    Produly waving some "moderate" flag isn't gonna help you out of this. Or have helped your country in most  other areas, proven by metrics and statistics.

    It's the year of the lord 2019 and you have kept a system (that some of you even defend) that makes you - bernie voice - ONLY MAJOR COUNTRY ON EARTH TO NOT GUARANTEE HEALTH CARE AS A HUMAN RIGHT*


    *And is paying double the price to keep it not a human right.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,612
    fife said:
    I guess this has turned into a health care thread now so here is a question for people who may not want a Universal health care system.  if you had the power, how would you want your health care to work?  do you like how its is run now?  what changes would you make. 


    To me, the one topic I want to hear these candidates talk about is improving healthcare.  Doesn't necessarily need to be universal.... but something.  Some plan, suggestion, system.  Attention to it with a road map to make it affordable and accessible

    This is an impending crisis and I think people should be on the streets demanding something get done.  This feels like the biggest threat to the security to me and my family (not M-13 or whatever that is called).
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,655
    MayDay10 said:
    fife said:
    I guess this has turned into a health care thread now so here is a question for people who may not want a Universal health care system.  if you had the power, how would you want your health care to work?  do you like how its is run now?  what changes would you make. 


    To me, the one topic I want to hear these candidates talk about is improving healthcare.  Doesn't necessarily need to be universal.... but something.  Some plan, suggestion, system.  Attention to it with a road map to make it affordable and accessible

    This is an impending crisis and I think people should be on the streets demanding something get done.  This feels like the biggest threat to the security to me and my family (not M-13 or whatever that is called).
    The repubs have had 9 years to improve or replace ACA with something better and Team Trump Treason says he won’t share his plan until after the election. They have no plan other than get sick and die. They should be skewered and beaten over the head repeatedly by the dems during the campaign.

    I’d like to see universal health care for all, like the Massachusetts model, with a focus on preventive care and healthy outcomes, maybe start with all of those under 18, tweak it, make improvements, cut stuff that doesn’t work and after a period of time, expand it, maybe by age bracket? Build on the successes, allow states flexibility but require minimum benefits and bring in the health care and insurance industries, from all sectors, for input. It’s a huge lift and it needs to be a group and bi-partisan effort. That repubs won’t even discuss it is shameful.

    Personally, I’d like to know the factors that drive increased cost and see less drastic increases in patient insurance costs. Healthcare CEO compensation needs to be addressed as well. Hospitals and doctors used to be fee for service and if you couldn’t pay full boat, they had sliding scales based on income and hospitals had endowments to pay for the poor. All of that changed when Wall Street monetized health care and made them profit centers for shareholders and investors, rather than remaining not for profits at the service of their communities. At least where I grew up that’s what happened.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,828
    fife said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So question on the lack of doctors and residents... could this be related to the pay,  if they are government employees (are they)?  In the States,  our brightest enter medical school because it's very prestigious and well paying.  Could UHC/M4A change that dynamic?
    No, it’s not pay related. As has been said, it’s almost all supply of physicians, in terms of how many can be trained. There are many, many applications for each spot in medical school, and then for each residency spot. The issue is how many training positions are available in the universities 
    another reason is that Canada has some stupid rules on foreign trained doctors.  i remember reading a report that Canada doctor shortage could all be solved if we accepted foreign traded doctors. 
    We do accept foreign trained doctors. Those trained in countries that have acceptable training systems (ie accredited similarly to Canadian training)  have a quicker path to licensure than those who are from systems that don’t have a similar accreditation system. Do you want inadequately trained doctors practicing?

    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,678
    fife said:
    I guess this has turned into a health care thread now so here is a question for people who may not want a Universal health care system.  if you had the power, how would you want your health care to work?  do you like how its is run now?  what changes would you make. 


    Healthcare was essentially universal until the individual mandate was repealed by the last Congress.  The argument really is about single payer vs public/ private. 
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    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,911

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited August 2019
    mcgruff10 said:


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,678
    fife said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So question on the lack of doctors and residents... could this be related to the pay,  if they are government employees (are they)?  In the States,  our brightest enter medical school because it's very prestigious and well paying.  Could UHC/M4A change that dynamic?
    I don't know if this was a question about the lack of doctors in canada but i think it is.  I don't have any stats that show the lack of doctors has anything to do with pay to be honest so can't answer that question.  but to answer the question if they are government workers the answer is no.  of course some people have a different opinion but what it means to be owned by the government. 

    I don't know if you read the article i posted early but here is a quote talking about the same concern medical schools are having in america.

    " A survey by the Association of American Medical Colleges found that 78% of medical school deans are concerned about the ability of incoming students to find residency positions of their choice nationwide. The problem could end up being worse there because unlike in Canada, where provincial governments control the number of residency positions, in the US any hospital can set up a residency program and determine how many residents will be admitted."



    Good point on the distinction of gov't workers.  What I mean is not.. does their paycheck originate from a gov't contract.  I'm more asking if the gov't is actually their employer, controls their raises, individual performance assessment, etc.  Sounds like you are saying no in that case.  
    As far as the available residency positions, I'm a bit confused on the quote from the article.  The way I interpret it (I'm not in the medical field) is that in the States, the Deans are concerned that choice for the incoming residents may be limited.  But this limitation is driven by the private hospitals not wanting/needing residents in the fields that the incoming residents want.  This seems like a supply/demand issue, one that I am okay with it, since it's market driven.  I don't believe medical schools play a role in controlling what the hospitals take for residents.  

    Regardless, my broader concern is about having our best and brightest in the medical field.  I'm most interested to know if that's the case in Canada; that the medical fields draw the strongest people and are the highest paid fields. And that the higher the skill level, the higher the paid.  In other words, in the States, average salaries of family practice doctors are lower than cardiologists.  
    The 10k foot concern for moving to a system similar to Canada, is that when you take the profit motive and choice out of the field, does the quality of care and availability of efficient service go down.  I hear some Canadians say "no" and others like @Meltdown99 say yes.  My only correlation in the States is the VA, and that's not a positive comparison.  

    Sorry for the long winded post.  This reply was for @oftenreading as well.  I'm a bit unsure if you mean med school training or residency when you are talking about training positions, simply because it sounds like the universities have control of the residency process.  I think that's different than here.  
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,911
    mcgruff10 said:


    How is this a drinking game?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    mrussel1 said:
    fife said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So question on the lack of doctors and residents... could this be related to the pay,  if they are government employees (are they)?  In the States,  our brightest enter medical school because it's very prestigious and well paying.  Could UHC/M4A change that dynamic?
    I don't know if this was a question about the lack of doctors in canada but i think it is.  I don't have any stats that show the lack of doctors has anything to do with pay to be honest so can't answer that question.  but to answer the question if they are government workers the answer is no.  of course some people have a different opinion but what it means to be owned by the government. 

    I don't know if you read the article i posted early but here is a quote talking about the same concern medical schools are having in america.

    " A survey by the Association of American Medical Colleges found that 78% of medical school deans are concerned about the ability of incoming students to find residency positions of their choice nationwide. The problem could end up being worse there because unlike in Canada, where provincial governments control the number of residency positions, in the US any hospital can set up a residency program and determine how many residents will be admitted."



    Good point on the distinction of gov't workers.  What I mean is not.. does their paycheck originate from a gov't contract.  I'm more asking if the gov't is actually their employer, controls their raises, individual performance assessment, etc.  Sounds like you are saying no in that case.  
    As far as the available residency positions, I'm a bit confused on the quote from the article.  The way I interpret it (I'm not in the medical field) is that in the States, the Deans are concerned that choice for the incoming residents may be limited.  But this limitation is driven by the private hospitals not wanting/needing residents in the fields that the incoming residents want.  This seems like a supply/demand issue, one that I am okay with it, since it's market driven.  I don't believe medical schools play a role in controlling what the hospitals take for residents.  

    Regardless, my broader concern is about having our best and brightest in the medical field.  I'm most interested to know if that's the case in Canada; that the medical fields draw the strongest people and are the highest paid fields. And that the higher the skill level, the higher the paid.  In other words, in the States, average salaries of family practice doctors are lower than cardiologists.  
    The 10k foot concern for moving to a system similar to Canada, is that when you take the profit motive and choice out of the field, does the quality of care and availability of efficient service go down.  I hear some Canadians say "no" and others like @Meltdown99 say yes.  My only correlation in the States is the VA, and that's not a positive comparison.  

    Sorry for the long winded post.  This reply was for @oftenreading as well.  I'm a bit unsure if you mean med school training or residency when you are talking about training positions, simply because it sounds like the universities have control of the residency process.  I think that's different than here.  
    In Ontario, most family Drs are considered self-employed.  Those Drs. bill OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan) and OHIP pays those Drs.  OHIP fees are supposed to be negotiated with an organization that represents the Drs.  No matter the government, the Drs are often butting heads over fees with the government and currently I believe the Drs. are still trying to get a better agreement, the old agreement expired.  Drs can also work in hospitals and private clinics and are likely paid an hourly rate in those places and the employer bills OHIP.

    Quotas are placed on medical school acceptance.  A real problem in healthcare in Ontario (according to my Dr. is that many Drs. are going into specialties where the pay is much higher, leaving a shortage of family Drs.  My own Dr 3 sons are all Drs working in specialty medicine and his 4th child, his daughter his also going into specialty medicine.

    As for the quality of care.  I have a couple of recent stays at our hospitals...they suck.  Usually overcrowded and many times if you are being admitted you must wait for discharge to get a room.  A term that is used often used when referring to Ontario Hospitals is "hallway medicine".

    But as far as I'm concerned our Drs. are saints...they could easily make much more in the US...so the ones that stay are saints.

    I am assuming that your government shells out more for healthcare because of Medicaid (or whatever its called that serves low-income people), is because your hospitals are private and the government has less control.  It's easier to manage health care cost when the government controls the system...
    Give Peas A Chance…
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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,828
    edited August 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    fife said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So question on the lack of doctors and residents... could this be related to the pay,  if they are government employees (are they)?  In the States,  our brightest enter medical school because it's very prestigious and well paying.  Could UHC/M4A change that dynamic?
    I don't know if this was a question about the lack of doctors in canada but i think it is.  I don't have any stats that show the lack of doctors has anything to do with pay to be honest so can't answer that question.  but to answer the question if they are government workers the answer is no.  of course some people have a different opinion but what it means to be owned by the government. 

    I don't know if you read the article i posted early but here is a quote talking about the same concern medical schools are having in america.

    " A survey by the Association of American Medical Colleges found that 78% of medical school deans are concerned about the ability of incoming students to find residency positions of their choice nationwide. The problem could end up being worse there because unlike in Canada, where provincial governments control the number of residency positions, in the US any hospital can set up a residency program and determine how many residents will be admitted."



    Good point on the distinction of gov't workers.  What I mean is not.. does their paycheck originate from a gov't contract.  I'm more asking if the gov't is actually their employer, controls their raises, individual performance assessment, etc.  Sounds like you are saying no in that case.  
    As far as the available residency positions, I'm a bit confused on the quote from the article.  The way I interpret it (I'm not in the medical field) is that in the States, the Deans are concerned that choice for the incoming residents may be limited.  But this limitation is driven by the private hospitals not wanting/needing residents in the fields that the incoming residents want.  This seems like a supply/demand issue, one that I am okay with it, since it's market driven.  I don't believe medical schools play a role in controlling what the hospitals take for residents.  

    Regardless, my broader concern is about having our best and brightest in the medical field.  I'm most interested to know if that's the case in Canada; that the medical fields draw the strongest people and are the highest paid fields. And that the higher the skill level, the higher the paid.  In other words, in the States, average salaries of family practice doctors are lower than cardiologists.  
    The 10k foot concern for moving to a system similar to Canada, is that when you take the profit motive and choice out of the field, does the quality of care and availability of efficient service go down.  I hear some Canadians say "no" and others like @Meltdown99 say yes.  My only correlation in the States is the VA, and that's not a positive comparison.  

    Sorry for the long winded post.  This reply was for @oftenreading as well.  I'm a bit unsure if you mean med school training or residency when you are talking about training positions, simply because it sounds like the universities have control of the residency process.  I think that's different than here.  

    I think you're overstating the "best and brightest" argument. Sure, medical school and residency spots are competitive, but lots of prestigious, highly paid fields are. It takes high academic standing to get in and you have to be prepared to work really long hours basically forever to make it through, so there's that aspect. Medicine attracts bright people who like the biological sciences and who like all the interpersonal interaction. Other fields attract bright people who like physics, for example, or law, or engineering. Even in the US I suspect you can make more money, more easily in business or finance than in medicine.

    Physician income varies greatly by specialty in both Canada and the US. American physicians tend to have a higher gross income than Canadian physicians for the same specialty, but they also have far higher overheads (American malpractice insurance premiums are absurd, for instance, and doctors need to hire more staff to manage their billing because of all the different payment organization), spend less of their time doing medicine due to the need to deal with mountains of paperwork and back-and-forth arguing with insurance companies, and don't always get paid what they are owed. Some people I've talked to who have done both don't think it's worth it to practice in the US, particularly with the headaches and frustrations involved with the insurance companies essentially dictating care by limiting what they will fund. Those of you in the US who like your private insurance might be surprised at how often you aren't actually getting the care that your doctor wants and thinks you need, because the insurance company won't pay for it. This is particularly bad regarding hospital stays, as patients are routinely discharged before they are medically ready in order to meet insurance company demands. 

    Residency funding is broadly similar in the US and Canada. In both countries the funding for basically all aspects of residency training is government funded (in the US it comes through the Medicare budget). What happens in Canada is that the government provides funding for a certain number of residency and fellowship spots to each postgrad program (which are run by the universities), and the decision as to how to allocate them is made by the programs. The government doesn't get into the specifics of saying "six spots for pediatrics, nine for general surgery.....".  The training is usually hospital-based but the programs are university-affiliated in both countries. 
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited August 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:


    How is this a drinking game?
    Don't drink when the US does something in a needlessly idiotic way or when an american defends the needlessly idiotic ways for purely egoistical reasons.

    Because if you do, then you will drink yourself to death at once.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited August 2019
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,911
    edited August 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:


    How is this a drinking game?
    Don't drink when the US does something in a needlessly idiotic way or when an american defends the needlessly idiotic ways for purely egoistical reasons.

    Because if you do, then you will drink yourself to death at once.
    So then I ll be sober?  Again, doesn’t sound like too much of a drinking game to me. 
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,126
    After this weekend I kept thinking...for the love of god please don’t nominate Bernie Sanders.....

    I really hope someone catches lightning in a bottle for the D’s...need a great candidate that help end our long national nightmare.
    hippiemom = goodness
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,911
    After this weekend I kept thinking...for the love of god please don’t nominate Bernie Sanders.....

    I really hope someone catches lightning in a bottle for the D’s...need a great candidate that help end our long national nightmare.
    Cincy did you like Obama or W?
    and agree on Sanders, dude needs to retire.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:


    How is this a drinking game?
    Don't drink when the US does something in a needlessly idiotic way or when an american defends the needlessly idiotic ways for purely egoistical reasons.

    Because if you do, then you will drink yourself to death at once.
    So then I ll be sober? 
    Finally you are seeing the US with clear eyes.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,126
    mcgruff10 said:
    After this weekend I kept thinking...for the love of god please don’t nominate Bernie Sanders.....

    I really hope someone catches lightning in a bottle for the D’s...need a great candidate that help end our long national nightmare.
    Cincy did you like Obama or W?
    and agree on Sanders, dude needs to retire.  
    I voted for W. 2x. Second time I wasn’t hesitant and going back I really should have just voted 3rd party or something. I liked many of the ideas but 9/11 through a curveball and I don’t think W ever got to some of the things I was hoping for. 

    I voted for Obama 1x. Did I like him? I think he is an intelligence honest person. A good person. I liked some of what he did. He started to turn me off when he was blaming rich people for stuff and including families that make a couple hundred thousand a year and lumping them in with the billionaires. If Obama was in the group running this time, he’d be at the top of my list. Well, I’d have to compare him and Amy and Pete real hard to see.
    hippiemom = goodness
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited August 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    After this weekend I kept thinking...for the love of god please don’t nominate Bernie Sanders.....

    I really hope someone catches lightning in a bottle for the D’s...need a great candidate that help end our long national nightmare.
    Cincy did you like Obama or W?
    and agree on Sanders, dude needs to retire.  
    I voted for W. 2x. 
    Choosing to vote for a known War Criminal responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent people...




    Who was your favorite moderate mayor choice of your town - Frederick Charles Krueger?

    EDIT: Haha, found this by the way:


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,126
    I knew that was coming. It’s ok, I’ve been around here a long time and had many discussions on it. 

    You defend a country complicit in the killing of 6 million Jews and countless soldiers as they profited off of their dead bodies. Sometimes we make mistakes and admit it. Other times we make mistakes and defend them.
    hippiemom = goodness
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    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited August 2019
    I knew that was coming. It’s ok, I’ve been around here a long time and had many discussions on it. 

    You defend a country complicit in the killing of 6 million Jews and countless soldiers as they profited off of their dead bodies. Sometimes we make mistakes and admit it. Other times we make mistakes and defend them.
    I don't defend Germany for the actual killing or for Swedens choices at that time. Or for the US not caring for several years letting a lot of people die.

    But you chose to vote for a known War Criminal responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent people.

    Nice whatsaboutism though.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,911
    mcgruff10 said:
    After this weekend I kept thinking...for the love of god please don’t nominate Bernie Sanders.....

    I really hope someone catches lightning in a bottle for the D’s...need a great candidate that help end our long national nightmare.
    Cincy did you like Obama or W?
    and agree on Sanders, dude needs to retire.  
    I voted for W. 2x. Second time I wasn’t hesitant and going back I really should have just voted 3rd party or something. I liked many of the ideas but 9/11 through a curveball and I don’t think W ever got to some of the things I was hoping for. 

    I voted for Obama 1x. Did I like him? I think he is an intelligence honest person. A good person. I liked some of what he did. He started to turn me off when he was blaming rich people for stuff and including families that make a couple hundred thousand a year and lumping them in with the billionaires. If Obama was in the group running this time, he’d be at the top of my list. Well, I’d have to compare him and Amy and Pete real hard to see.
    Thanks for the insight Cincy!  So you are pretty much in the middle like me.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,126
    I knew that was coming. It’s ok, I’ve been around here a long time and had many discussions on it. 

    You defend a country complicit in the killing of 6 million Jews and countless soldiers as they profited off of their dead bodies. Sometimes we make mistakes and admit it. Other times we make mistakes and defend them.
    I don't defend Germany for the actual killing or for Swedens choices at that time. Or for the US not caring for several years letting a lot of people die.

    But you chose to vote for a known War Criminal responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent people.

    Nice whatsaboutism though.
    6 million
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Options
    Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 29,090
    edited August 2019
    I knew that was coming. It’s ok, I’ve been around here a long time and had many discussions on it. 

    You defend a country complicit in the killing of 6 million Jews and countless soldiers as they profited off of their dead bodies. Sometimes we make mistakes and admit it. Other times we make mistakes and defend them.
    I don't defend Germany for the actual killing or for Swedens choices at that time. Or for the US not caring for several years letting a lot of people die.

    But you chose to vote for a known War Criminal responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent people.

    Nice whatsaboutism though.
    6 million
    Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to over a million (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 183,348 - 205,908 violent civilian deaths through April 2019.


    "Jolly ol' George, Ill go and vore for that fellow a second time"
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    This should give the man a 5 % bump in the polls at least. Otherwise something is wrong:


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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    Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,986
    This should give the man a 5 % bump in the polls at least. Otherwise something is wrong:


    Yeah I like it....
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

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    mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,880
    fife said:
    mrussel1 said:
    So question on the lack of doctors and residents... could this be related to the pay,  if they are government employees (are they)?  In the States,  our brightest enter medical school because it's very prestigious and well paying.  Could UHC/M4A change that dynamic?
    I don't know if this was a question about the lack of doctors in canada but i think it is.  I don't have any stats that show the lack of doctors has anything to do with pay to be honest so can't answer that question.  but to answer the question if they are government workers the answer is no.  of course some people have a different opinion but what it means to be owned by the government. 

    I don't know if you read the article i posted early but here is a quote talking about the same concern medical schools are having in america.

    " A survey by the Association of American Medical Colleges found that 78% of medical school deans are concerned about the ability of incoming students to find residency positions of their choice nationwide. The problem could end up being worse there because unlike in Canada, where provincial governments control the number of residency positions, in the US any hospital can set up a residency program and determine how many residents will be admitted."



    "...residency of their choice....."

    this is where a gov program can come into play. in exchange for some percentage of loan forgiveness, these docs to be take residency positions at less desireable places, perhaps extended beyond residency for total or near total loan forgiveness
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