Outrage Culture

brianlux

The issue of the reduction in the number of honey bees came up on another forum and, reading about it there, this struck me as a good example of "outrage culture" gone askew yet again.   When the subject of honey bees comes up, people often freak out and worry that crops will fail if the honey bees die off.  That may be true in some places but I don't see how that can be true in North America.  The honey be is an exotic (non-native) species.  It was introduced here in 1622.  There are about 4,000 other bee species in North America and they are as good at pollinating as the honey bee-- or better-- honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables.  My best hunch is that a lot of the hoopla over this issue is generated by the honey industry.  If I'm wrong about that, my apologies- but I'd need some good evidence to believe I'm wrong.

It might be helpful if we were all taught lot more about science before we get caught up freaking out about something science related because somebody tweeted it or it showed up on "the news".

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

The issue of the reduction in the number of honey bees came up on another forum and, reading about it there, this struck me as a good example of "outrage culture" gone askew yet again.   When the subject of honey bees comes up, people often freak out and worry that crops will fail if the honey bees die off.  That may be true in some places but I don't see how that can be true in North America.  The honey be is an exotic (non-native) species.  It was introduced here in 1622.  There are about 4,000 other bee species in North America and they are as good at pollinating as the honey bee-- or better-- honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables.  My best hunch is that a lot of the hoopla over this issue is generated by the honey industry.  If I'm wrong about that, my apologies- but I'd need some good evidence to believe I'm wrong.

It might be helpful if we were all taught lot more about science before we get caught up freaking out about something science related because somebody tweeted it or it showed up on "the news".

You're very wrong, and frankly, that theory doesn't even make any sense. It disturbs me that there are actually people out there spreading such info to people like you - it's like an anti-bee force. It's so odd because it is completely against their well-being as well as ours. I have even heard multiple recent stories about people literally destroying bee hives out of malice for some fucking reason. The honey industry can easily grow its own hives - the honey supply is the least of anyone's concern, including honey manufacturers. Very little of the honey you see in the store is wild honey. Obviously we still need thing pollinated in North America. I'm not sure where you heard bees aren't important to crops that need pollination, as that is clearly not true. Most of our crops come from Europe - it's not like we are farming like Natives from eons ago. Our crops need the European honeybee to survive. Yes, there are other pollinators. But honeybees are incredibly important to North America as well.

Here, read this, just as a start. https://www.pollinator.org/learning-center/bee-issues

Also, it sounds like you live on a property that might be good for bee hives. There are organizations that will set up bee hives on people's property for a reasonable fee (this is like charity on the property owners' parts), and they will maintain the hives for you, and also teach you one-on-one about bee keeping. I would do it, but I can't, as I live in an apartment, and they only set up in yards and on rooftops.

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

The issue of the reduction in the number of honey bees came up on another forum and, reading about it there, this struck me as a good example of "outrage culture" gone askew yet again.   When the subject of honey bees comes up, people often freak out and worry that crops will fail if the honey bees die off.  That may be true in some places but I don't see how that can be true in North America.  The honey be is an exotic (non-native) species.  It was introduced here in 1622.  There are about 4,000 other bee species in North America and they are as good at pollinating as the honey bee-- or better-- honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables.  My best hunch is that a lot of the hoopla over this issue is generated by the honey industry.  If I'm wrong about that, my apologies- but I'd need some good evidence to believe I'm wrong.

It might be helpful if we were all taught lot more about science before we get caught up freaking out about something science related because somebody tweeted it or it showed up on "the news".

You're very wrong, and frankly, that theory doesn't even make any sense. It disturbs me that there are actually people out there spreading such info to people like you - it's like an anti-bee force. It's so odd because it is completely against their well-being as well as ours. I have even heard multiple recent stories about people literally destroying bee hives out of malice for some fucking reason. The honey industry can easily grow its own hives - the honey supply is the least of anyone's concern, including honey manufacturers. Very little of the honey you see in the store is wild honey. Obviously we still need thing pollinated in North America. I'm not sure where you heard bees aren't important to crops that need pollination, as that is clearly not true. Most of our crops come from Europe - it's not like we are farming like Natives from eons ago. Our crops need the European honeybee to survive. Yes, there are other pollinators. But honeybees are incredibly important to North America as well.

Here, read this, just as a start. https://www.pollinator.org/learning-center/bee-issues

Also, it sounds like you live on a property that might be good for bee hives. There are organizations that will set up bee hives on people's property for a reasonable fee (this is like charity on the property owners' parts), and they will maintain the hives for you, and also teach you one-on-one about bee keeping. I would do it, but I can't, as I live in an apartment, and they only set up in yards and on rooftops.

My baby boxer attacked a wasps nest last week and was stung in the eye.  It blew up like a balloon.  Fortunately benadryl knocked it out in a matter of hours.  That night, I took her out and she went right back to the hive (it was under the grill) and started snapping at it again.  I yanked her out and then hit it with the wasp spray, killing them off.  The little pup is fearless.  

That story had nothing to do with anything, although I'm mildly curious if wasps pollinate?  Did I make things worse?

Meltdown99

Do not take this the wrong as you 2 are both very knowledgeable...who do I believe?  I hope this debate continues.  I will go to your link PJ.

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

The issue of the reduction in the number of honey bees came up on another forum and, reading about it there, this struck me as a good example of "outrage culture" gone askew yet again.   When the subject of honey bees comes up, people often freak out and worry that crops will fail if the honey bees die off.  That may be true in some places but I don't see how that can be true in North America.  The honey be is an exotic (non-native) species.  It was introduced here in 1622.  There are about 4,000 other bee species in North America and they are as good at pollinating as the honey bee-- or better-- honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables.  My best hunch is that a lot of the hoopla over this issue is generated by the honey industry.  If I'm wrong about that, my apologies- but I'd need some good evidence to believe I'm wrong.

It might be helpful if we were all taught lot more about science before we get caught up freaking out about something science related because somebody tweeted it or it showed up on "the news".

You're very wrong, and frankly, that theory doesn't even make any sense. It disturbs me that there are actually people out there spreading such info to people like you - it's like an anti-bee force. It's so odd because it is completely against their well-being as well as ours. I have even heard multiple recent stories about people literally destroying bee hives out of malice for some fucking reason. The honey industry can easily grow its own hives - the honey supply is the least of anyone's concern, including honey manufacturers. Very little of the honey you see in the store is wild honey. Obviously we still need thing pollinated in North America. I'm not sure where you heard bees aren't important to crops that need pollination, as that is clearly not true. Most of our crops come from Europe - it's not like we are farming like Natives from eons ago. Our crops need the European honeybee to survive. Yes, there are other pollinators. But honeybees are incredibly important to North America as well.

Here, read this, just as a start. https://www.pollinator.org/learning-center/bee-issues

Also, it sounds like you live on a property that might be good for bee hives. There are organizations that will set up bee hives on people's property for a reasonable fee (this is like charity on the property owners' parts), and they will maintain the hives for you, and also teach you one-on-one about bee keeping. I would do it, but I can't, as I live in an apartment, and they only set up in yards and on rooftops.

My baby boxer attacked a wasps nest last week and was stung in the eye.  It blew up like a balloon.  Fortunately benadryl knocked it out in a matter of hours.  That night, I took her out and she went right back to the hive (it was under the grill) and started snapping at it again.  I yanked her out and then hit it with the wasp spray, killing them off.  The little pup is fearless.  

That story had nothing to do with anything, although I'm mildly curious if wasps pollinate?  Did I make things worse?

Yeah, I'm sorry to say that wasps pollinate too! ... That's a tricky one though. Bees are one thing, but wasps can be so aggressive. You can't really live with a wasp nest on or next to your house. But there are ways to remove a wasp nest without killing them. Google it next time!

cincybearcat

I’m still killing wasps when I see them....well if it’s me or the wasp situation I mean. Wasp is a goner

PJ_Soul

cincybearcat said:

I’m still killing wasps when I see them....well if it’s me or the wasp situation I mean. Wasp is a goner

Yeah, sure, if it's me or the wasp, I'm choosing me, lol. I'm actually TERRIFIED of them. Have been ever since my real-life wasp nightmare. My and my then-hubby were woken up one night with terrible sharp pains on our legs. We were yelling, "WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!", threw back the covers and found 5 or 6 wasps IN our bed!! We both had several bites or stings or whatever wasps give you. It was just awful! We had no clue where these fuckers had come from though. We looked and looked. Nothing. So the next night... it happened again, but MORE wasps in our bed, and more bites/stings. Of course by then I couldn't even sleep anymore. And then AGAIN they were in our bed on the third night. But finally I happened to look up at the right time, and saw one crawling out of this minuscule little hole that was right in the corner of the bedroom ceiling - it was basically invisible. It turned out that that wasp nest was inside the outer wall, and they had chewed this tiny passage into our bedroom, and kept all crawling down seeking the warmth of our bed. As soon as either of us moved in our sleep they all went into defense mode. Obviously because of that, if there is a wasp that I can't just sort of corral out of the balcony door, it's a dead duck. However, I wouldn't want to kill an entire nest of them unless there was no other way to get rid of it (like with that nest inside that wall - the humane methods wouldn't work for that unless you tore the entire wall right off, and that wasn't an option for the building managers).

mrussel1

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

I’m still killing wasps when I see them....well if it’s me or the wasp situation I mean. Wasp is a goner

Yeah, sure, if it's me or the wasp, I'm choosing me, lol. I'm actually TERRIFIED of them. Have been ever since my real-life wasp nightmare. My and my then-hubby were woken up one night with terrible sharps pains on our legs. We threw back the covers and found 5 or 6 wasps IN our bed!! We both had several bites or stings or whatever wasps give you. It was just awful! We had no clue where these fuckers had come from though. We looked and looked. Nothing. So the next night... it happened again, but MORE wasps in our bed, and more bites/stings. Of course by then I couldn't even sleep anymore. And then AGAIN they were in our bed on the third night. But finally I happened to look up at the right time, and saw one crawling out of this minuscule little hole that was right in the corner of the bedroom ceiling. It turned out that that wasp nest was inside the outer wall, and they had chewed this tiny passage into our bedroom, and kept all crawling down seeking the warmth of our bed. As soon as either of us moved they all went into defense mode. Obviously because of that, if there is a wasp I can't just sort of corral out of the balcony door, it's a dead duck. However, I wouldn't want to kill an entire nest of them unless there was no other way to get rid of it (like with that nest inside that wall - the humane methods wouldn't work for that unless you tore the entire wall right off, and that wasn't an option for the building managers).

Wow that is the worst!  I have never heard of such of thing.  My ten year old daughter is deathly afraid of wasps, even though she's never been stung by anything like that.  If I tell her that story, she would be in our bed for a month.  For the record, it was a brand new nest and had four wasps working it.  I didn't feel bad though.  Bastards hurt my youngest animal.  

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

I’m still killing wasps when I see them....well if it’s me or the wasp situation I mean. Wasp is a goner

Yeah, sure, if it's me or the wasp, I'm choosing me, lol. I'm actually TERRIFIED of them. Have been ever since my real-life wasp nightmare. My and my then-hubby were woken up one night with terrible sharps pains on our legs. We threw back the covers and found 5 or 6 wasps IN our bed!! We both had several bites or stings or whatever wasps give you. It was just awful! We had no clue where these fuckers had come from though. We looked and looked. Nothing. So the next night... it happened again, but MORE wasps in our bed, and more bites/stings. Of course by then I couldn't even sleep anymore. And then AGAIN they were in our bed on the third night. But finally I happened to look up at the right time, and saw one crawling out of this minuscule little hole that was right in the corner of the bedroom ceiling. It turned out that that wasp nest was inside the outer wall, and they had chewed this tiny passage into our bedroom, and kept all crawling down seeking the warmth of our bed. As soon as either of us moved they all went into defense mode. Obviously because of that, if there is a wasp I can't just sort of corral out of the balcony door, it's a dead duck. However, I wouldn't want to kill an entire nest of them unless there was no other way to get rid of it (like with that nest inside that wall - the humane methods wouldn't work for that unless you tore the entire wall right off, and that wasn't an option for the building managers).

Wow that is the worst!  I have never heard of such of thing.  My ten year old daughter is deathly afraid of wasps, even though she's never been stung by anything like that.  If I tell her that story, she would be in our bed for a month.  For the record, it was a brand new nest and had four wasps working it.  I didn't feel bad though.  Bastards hurt my youngest animal.  

Oh, pshaw, killing just a few wasps to prevent them from building a nest is no biggie. I would recommend that you put some preventative shit on the grill and in any other spots you think might be a good spot for a nest. They tend to come back and try again when their attempts at nesting are disturbed. I learned that when yet another nest was up inside the balcony floor of the balcony above mine. So the ceiling of my balcony. They kept coming back and trying again in the same place until i had some shit that would deter them sprayed in there. Now I never see them hovering around shopping for a good spot, lol.

Meltdown99

mrussel1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

The issue of the reduction in the number of honey bees came up on another forum and, reading about it there, this struck me as a good example of "outrage culture" gone askew yet again.   When the subject of honey bees comes up, people often freak out and worry that crops will fail if the honey bees die off.  That may be true in some places but I don't see how that can be true in North America.  The honey be is an exotic (non-native) species.  It was introduced here in 1622.  There are about 4,000 other bee species in North America and they are as good at pollinating as the honey bee-- or better-- honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables.  My best hunch is that a lot of the hoopla over this issue is generated by the honey industry.  If I'm wrong about that, my apologies- but I'd need some good evidence to believe I'm wrong.

It might be helpful if we were all taught lot more about science before we get caught up freaking out about something science related because somebody tweeted it or it showed up on "the news".

You're very wrong, and frankly, that theory doesn't even make any sense. It disturbs me that there are actually people out there spreading such info to people like you - it's like an anti-bee force. It's so odd because it is completely against their well-being as well as ours. I have even heard multiple recent stories about people literally destroying bee hives out of malice for some fucking reason. The honey industry can easily grow its own hives - the honey supply is the least of anyone's concern, including honey manufacturers. Very little of the honey you see in the store is wild honey. Obviously we still need thing pollinated in North America. I'm not sure where you heard bees aren't important to crops that need pollination, as that is clearly not true. Most of our crops come from Europe - it's not like we are farming like Natives from eons ago. Our crops need the European honeybee to survive. Yes, there are other pollinators. But honeybees are incredibly important to North America as well.

Here, read this, just as a start. https://www.pollinator.org/learning-center/bee-issues

Also, it sounds like you live on a property that might be good for bee hives. There are organizations that will set up bee hives on people's property for a reasonable fee (this is like charity on the property owners' parts), and they will maintain the hives for you, and also teach you one-on-one about bee keeping. I would do it, but I can't, as I live in an apartment, and they only set up in yards and on rooftops.

My baby boxer attacked a wasps nest last week and was stung in the eye.  It blew up like a balloon.  Fortunately benadryl knocked it out in a matter of hours.  That night, I took her out and she went right back to the hive (it was under the grill) and started snapping at it again.  I yanked her out and then hit it with the wasp spray, killing them off.  The little pup is fearless.  

That story had nothing to do with anything, although I'm mildly curious if wasps pollinate?  Did I make things worse?

  ...I enjoyed the story...

Meltdown99

cincybearcat said:

I’m still killing wasps when I see them....well if it’s me or the wasp situation I mean. Wasp is a goner

Spoken like a true apex predator...lol

Meltdown99

Listen the Wasp is more afraid of you than you of them...#wasplivesmatter

make friends with them...

mrussel1

Meltdown99 said:

Listen the Wasp is more afraid of you than you of them...#wasplivesmatter

make friends with them...

This is not true. . Those fuckers are aggressive.  They are not bumblebees.  

PJ_Soul

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Listen the Wasp is more afraid of you than you of them...#wasplivesmatter

make friends with them...

This is not true. . Those fuckers are aggressive.  They are not bumblebees.  

That's a fact. I have been attacked by wasps tons of times. They literally will come at you when you're just sitting there innocently.... still, try not to kill pollinators if you can help it!

brianlux

.

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

I'm not going to engaged in some fucking conversation where someone I respect and think of as a friend yells at me and berates me.  You didn't even get what I was saying right.  Fuck that.

What are you talking about?! Brian, remember when I said to you that whenever you think something like this that you just ask for clarity, because I would NEVER do that? This is one of those times when you should have asked. Because I didn't berate you at all, or yell at you.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

The issue of the reduction in the number of honey bees came up on another forum and, reading about it there, this struck me as a good example of "outrage culture" gone askew yet again.   When the subject of honey bees comes up, people often freak out and worry that crops will fail if the honey bees die off.  That may be true in some places but I don't see how that can be true in North America.  The honey be is an exotic (non-native) species.  It was introduced here in 1622.  There are about 4,000 other bee species in North America and they are as good at pollinating as the honey bee-- or better-- honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables.  My best hunch is that a lot of the hoopla over this issue is generated by the honey industry.  If I'm wrong about that, my apologies- but I'd need some good evidence to believe I'm wrong.

It might be helpful if we were all taught lot more about science before we get caught up freaking out about something science related because somebody tweeted it or it showed up on "the news".

You're very wrong, and frankly, that theory doesn't even make any sense. It disturbs me that there are actually people out there spreading such info to people like you - it's like an anti-bee force. It's so odd because it is completely against their well-being as well as ours. I have even heard multiple recent stories about people literally destroying bee hives out of malice for some fucking reason. The honey industry can easily grow its own hives - the honey supply is the least of anyone's concern, including honey manufacturers. Very little of the honey you see in the store is wild honey. Obviously we still need thing pollinated in North America. I'm not sure where you heard bees aren't important to crops that need pollination, as that is clearly not true. Most of our crops come from Europe - it's not like we are farming like Natives from eons ago. Our crops need the European honeybee to survive. Yes, there are other pollinators. But honeybees are incredibly important to North America as well.

Here, read this, just as a start. https://www.pollinator.org/learning-center/bee-issues

Also, it sounds like you live on a property that might be good for bee hives. There are organizations that will set up bee hives on people's property for a reasonable fee (this is like charity on the property owners' parts), and they will maintain the hives for you, and also teach you one-on-one about bee keeping. I would do it, but I can't, as I live in an apartment, and they only set up in yards and on rooftops.

Friend or not, I'm not going to engage in a conversation with someone who yells at me and berates me.  You didn't even get what I was saying right.  Fuck that .

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

The issue of the reduction in the number of honey bees came up on another forum and, reading about it there, this struck me as a good example of "outrage culture" gone askew yet again.   When the subject of honey bees comes up, people often freak out and worry that crops will fail if the honey bees die off.  That may be true in some places but I don't see how that can be true in North America.  The honey be is an exotic (non-native) species.  It was introduced here in 1622.  There are about 4,000 other bee species in North America and they are as good at pollinating as the honey bee-- or better-- honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables.  My best hunch is that a lot of the hoopla over this issue is generated by the honey industry.  If I'm wrong about that, my apologies- but I'd need some good evidence to believe I'm wrong.

It might be helpful if we were all taught lot more about science before we get caught up freaking out about something science related because somebody tweeted it or it showed up on "the news".

You're very wrong, and frankly, that theory doesn't even make any sense. It disturbs me that there are actually people out there spreading such info to people like you - it's like an anti-bee force. It's so odd because it is completely against their well-being as well as ours. I have even heard multiple recent stories about people literally destroying bee hives out of malice for some fucking reason. The honey industry can easily grow its own hives - the honey supply is the least of anyone's concern, including honey manufacturers. Very little of the honey you see in the store is wild honey. Obviously we still need thing pollinated in North America. I'm not sure where you heard bees aren't important to crops that need pollination, as that is clearly not true. Most of our crops come from Europe - it's not like we are farming like Natives from eons ago. Our crops need the European honeybee to survive. Yes, there are other pollinators. But honeybees are incredibly important to North America as well.

Here, read this, just as a start. https://www.pollinator.org/learning-center/bee-issues

Also, it sounds like you live on a property that might be good for bee hives. There are organizations that will set up bee hives on people's property for a reasonable fee (this is like charity on the property owners' parts), and they will maintain the hives for you, and also teach you one-on-one about bee keeping. I would do it, but I can't, as I live in an apartment, and they only set up in yards and on rooftops.

Friend or not, I'm not going to engage in a conversation with someone who yells at me and berates me.  You didn't even get what I was saying right.  Fuck that .

I'll refer you back to my last comment. What in the world are you talking about?! I wasn't yelling or berating at all. Did you misread something??

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

The issue of the reduction in the number of honey bees came up on another forum and, reading about it there, this struck me as a good example of "outrage culture" gone askew yet again.   When the subject of honey bees comes up, people often freak out and worry that crops will fail if the honey bees die off.  That may be true in some places but I don't see how that can be true in North America.  The honey be is an exotic (non-native) species.  It was introduced here in 1622.  There are about 4,000 other bee species in North America and they are as good at pollinating as the honey bee-- or better-- honey bees don't pollinate tomatoes and other fruits and vegetables.  My best hunch is that a lot of the hoopla over this issue is generated by the honey industry.  If I'm wrong about that, my apologies- but I'd need some good evidence to believe I'm wrong.

It might be helpful if we were all taught lot more about science before we get caught up freaking out about something science related because somebody tweeted it or it showed up on "the news".

You're very wrong, and frankly, that theory doesn't even make any sense. It disturbs me that there are actually people out there spreading such info to people like you - it's like an anti-bee force. It's so odd because it is completely against their well-being as well as ours. I have even heard multiple recent stories about people literally destroying bee hives out of malice for some fucking reason. The honey industry can easily grow its own hives - the honey supply is the least of anyone's concern, including honey manufacturers. Very little of the honey you see in the store is wild honey. Obviously we still need thing pollinated in North America. I'm not sure where you heard bees aren't important to crops that need pollination, as that is clearly not true. Most of our crops come from Europe - it's not like we are farming like Natives from eons ago. Our crops need the European honeybee to survive. Yes, there are other pollinators. But honeybees are incredibly important to North America as well.

Here, read this, just as a start. https://www.pollinator.org/learning-center/bee-issues

Also, it sounds like you live on a property that might be good for bee hives. There are organizations that will set up bee hives on people's property for a reasonable fee (this is like charity on the property owners' parts), and they will maintain the hives for you, and also teach you one-on-one about bee keeping. I would do it, but I can't, as I live in an apartment, and they only set up in yards and on rooftops.

Friend or not, I'm not going to engage in a conversation with someone who yells at me and berates me.  You didn't even get what I was saying right.  Fuck that .

I'll refer you back to my last comment. What in the world are you talking about?! I wasn't yelling or berating at all. Did you misread something??

Yelling and berating  (call me mistaken, perhaps, but saying "you're very wrong"...   uh uh)   "People such as me?  WTF?:

"You're very wrong, and frankly, that theory doesn't even make any sense. It disturbs me that there are actually people out there spreading such info to people like you"

Totally misconstrued where I'm coming from:

"it's like an anti-bee force."d

No, I'm not anti-bee, I'm anti anthropocentric thinking.

It doesn't matter anyway because I'm probably going to get fried for making a personal statement.  And if that's the cased, so be it and sayonara.

PJ_Soul

I didn't mean you're an anti-bee force. I wasn't talking about you at all when I said that - of course I know you're not anti-bee dude. And "people like you" would be "people who are being convinced that it's the honey bee industry." That is what I thought you were very wrong about, and you literally mentioned maybe being wrong, so I said I thought you are. Seriously Brian. Just ask me when you have a reaction like that, instead of essentially attacking me for things I didn't even mean. I don't understand why you keep doing this, lol.