Is it still acceptable in this day and age to ask a WOMAN in public out for a coffee/drink/lunch?

Thoughts_Arrive

As a guy I am confused with things.
Like if I saw a pretty woman on the train or out on the street somewhere, would it be against the current norm to ask her out?

eddiec

Yes

62,984,828 Americans believe grabbing a girl by the p***y is acceptable behaviour so I'm sure a coffee is still okay.

rgambs

Yes

Of course it's ok, as long as you are respectful and handle the inevitable rejection respectfully.
Unless you are an absolute stud, you will likely be rejected.  I just don't think it's in most women's nature to respond favourably to a stranger's proposition even if the stranger is handsome. 

lastexitlondon

Yes

Acceptable  but as above strangers maybe taken at arms length and worried

Thoughts_Arrive

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

mickeyrat

complete stranger?   hmm , not a good look.

someone you see often but havent met? perhaps, but only after introductions  and a few brief light conversations.

fwiw, stick with women near enough your age

vaggar99

i prefer stalking over social media.  not working well, but preferred.

rgambs

Yes

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

Thoughts_Arrive

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

Not spiteful feelings, feelings of fear at being labelled as someone who does not respect women or as a pervert.
Like if I started talking to a girl on the train making small talk and asking where she's off to or whatever comes to mind and then asking her for her number. If I did that would I get beat down by people for 'harassment'? I know one woman who thinks that when guys ask her out it's for sex only. Like seriously, how about they want to meet someone special to share their life with. That's what I am getting at. 
I would never get into incel territory, I don't even remotely harbour or have never even harboured thoughts of hatred towards females. Those thoughts have not once popped into my head.
What signs are there that I don't respect women and soon won't? Sorry I'm taken aback and slightly offended at that.

Thoughts_Arrive

Btw, this poll was in response to me seeing a lot of anti-men comments on social media.
There are extreme feminists blaming ALL men for the wrong doings of some.
All men are bad, all men need to change etc.
I feel like we are damned if we even compliment a woman on her looks in a polite way.

rgambs

Yes

Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

Not spiteful feelings, feelings of fear at being labelled as someone who does not respect women or as a pervert.
Like if I started talking to a girl on the train making small talk and asking where she's off to or whatever comes to mind and then asking her for her number. If I did that would I get beat down by people for 'harassment'? I know one woman who thinks that when guys ask her out it's for sex only. Like seriously, how about they want to meet someone special to share their life with. That's what I am getting at. 
I would never get into incel territory, I don't even remotely harbour or have never even harboured thoughts of hatred towards females. Those thoughts have not once popped into my head.
What signs are there that I don't respect women and soon won't? Sorry I'm taken aback and slightly offended at that.

I understand why you'd be offended, it was an offensive thing to say lol
What I see that is a bit troubling is that you seem to think of women as other.
As an example you don't often say you are repulsive, you more often say women are repulsed by you...it seems to me that you tend to lump women together as an inscrutable monolith rather than approaching each as an individual person with needs and wants and goals that don't necessarily involve you at all.  You seem to tend toward that all too easy to feel sentiment that women who reject you don't know what's best for themselves and you could show them.
Now, these are just observations from a variety of your posts, and they may be completely off-base, but I think you should focus less on what people can bring to your life or you could bring to theirs and just focus on enjoying what is openly available.  Doing that, just simply enjoying a person's presence without wishing or hoping or scheming for more is a great pathway to solid relationships of all types.

rgambs

Yes

Thoughts_Arrive said:

Btw, this poll was in response to me seeing a lot of anti-men comments on social media.
There are extreme feminists blaming ALL men for the wrong doings of some.
All men are bad, all men need to change etc.
I feel like we are damned if we even compliment a woman on her looks in a polite way.

As a first-rate horndog and someone who takes aesthetics seriously in both carnal and philosophical manners, I fully understand the impulse to tell beautiful women that they have brightened my day with their beauty.
I also understand there is no reason that they would care to hear that from me, or any other stranger.  No reason at all, it isn't the pick me up that us shlubs think it is, and it can be downright insulting. 
Do you think a woman who is smart and strong and determined, funny and sensitive and tough as nails wants to hear that some dude thinks they have a hot ass or a pretty face?  Why?  Why would they want to hear that? 
A man's impulse to say so is natural, but it's only indulged because men have made it their prerogative to do as they please for...well, forever.

Not saying there isn't a time and place, there is, and a right way to go about it too...but mostly it's just a selfish impulse because it gives us men a rise.

benjs

Thoughts_Arrive said:

As a guy I am confused with things.
Like if I saw a pretty woman on the train or out on the street somewhere, would it be against the current norm to ask her out?

Norms have nothing to do with it - respect and decency do. Fuck the norms. If you are a respectful and decent person in the way you conduct yourself in any situation, you really don't have anything to fear. A good rule of thumb for checking if something is okay, is to remove specifics and see if it still sounds like a moral thing to do.

Like this:
"If I saw an attractive person on the train or out on the street somewhere, would it be okay to ask the person out?"
And my answer would be, sure, as long as you conduct yourself with respect and decency, and recognize that if you're rejected, that's the right of the individual (for a litany of reasons, many of which may have absolutely nothing to do with you), and you haven't been wronged by anyone or any gender. 

Anyone around here, I'd be curious to hear if you agree with this thought or not!

Gern Blansten

No

If she wants to go out she'll ask you

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

If she wants to go out she'll ask you

That would be sexual harassment 

tbergs

Instead of asking her out without any pretext, maybe try to start a conversation with her first and see if there is a common interest to get to know one another. I doubt any woman would accept a date from a random person they have never talked to, and if they did, well, you might be in for some crazy times.

F Me In The Brain

Yes

"There is nothing to fear except fear itself."

Be respectful.  It is a rare person who does not like respectful attention.

The rest of this is in your head. 

Nothing about Feminism or #MeToo is against being respectful and seeking company. 

Gern Blansten

No

Hey baby...wanna drink some coffee?

Wobbie

Is her name “Agnes”?

OnWis97

Yes

I responded "yes," based on the title and I was kinda envisioning someone you at least kinda knew.  Seemed like a no-brainer.

But now that I read it more as approaching someone out of the blue in public...well...my answer is still yes.  But I don't think you're likely to come off well.  Again, it's OK, as long as you are prepared to take rejection like a champ...smile and move on.  Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

Not spiteful feelings, feelings of fear at being labelled as someone who does not respect women or as a pervert.
Like if I started talking to a girl on the train making small talk and asking where she's off to or whatever comes to mind and then asking her for her number. If I did that would I get beat down by people for 'harassment'? I know one woman who thinks that when guys ask her out it's for sex only. Like seriously, how about they want to meet someone special to share their life with. That's what I am getting at. 
I would never get into incel territory, I don't even remotely harbour or have never even harboured thoughts of hatred towards females. Those thoughts have not once popped into my head.
What signs are there that I don't respect women and soon won't? Sorry I'm taken aback and slightly offended at that.

One thing I've learned over the years is that it's really, really  hard for me to relate to what it's like to be a female. I had a class review to go to one evening (i.e., after dark) in college.  A woman I knew in a different dorm was in my class.  After the review session, she proceeded to tell me that she called my dorm room (1993...no cell phones) so I could stop and get her on the way but I'd already left.  But since I was gone, two of her friends walked her there and walked back home together so no woman was ever out alone on campus.  That I should have offered to walk her never occurred to me.  Because I hadn't lived in that reality.

Now you read a lot about male Uber drivers asking female riders whether they're going home...to a boyfriend's?...etc.  My guess is that the vast majority of the drivers have no intent of committing a felony, but again, women live with discomfort (and some legitimate danger) that is really hard for men to relate to.  I've read that many won't go to a gym because of the pick-ups and/or ogling.  They live in a different world than men do and I think the world would be a better place if we were more able to consider how we're coming across in our interactions.

I have a co-worker who has told me she gets sexually harassed on the train nearly every time she rides it.  I was floored when she told me this.  I ride the same train and have never noticed this kind of thing...but then again, I'm listening to music and either reading or looking at my phone.  Part of why I don't realize that this stuff is fairly common is because I have the luxury of not realizing it.

Approaching someone you've never met and asking them out is kind of a gray area, but I don't think it's the best approach.  You only know what she looks like.  She's not the love of your life.  It's better to get to know someone first.  There's a good chance you're not the first person to approach her out of the blue this week and she's probably getting burned out from the "positive reinforcement."  But whatever you do, take no for an answer with no protest.

OffSheGoes35

Gern Blansten said:

Hey baby...wanna drink some coffee?

LOL

Gern Blansten

No

OnWis97 said:

I responded "yes," based on the title and I was kinda envisioning someone you at least kinda knew.  Seemed like a no-brainer.

But now that I read it more as approaching someone out of the blue in public...well...my answer is still yes.  But I don't think you're likely to come off well.  Again, it's OK, as long as you are prepared to take rejection like a champ...smile and move on.  Thoughts_Arrive said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

Not spiteful feelings, feelings of fear at being labelled as someone who does not respect women or as a pervert.
Like if I started talking to a girl on the train making small talk and asking where she's off to or whatever comes to mind and then asking her for her number. If I did that would I get beat down by people for 'harassment'? I know one woman who thinks that when guys ask her out it's for sex only. Like seriously, how about they want to meet someone special to share their life with. That's what I am getting at. 
I would never get into incel territory, I don't even remotely harbour or have never even harboured thoughts of hatred towards females. Those thoughts have not once popped into my head.
What signs are there that I don't respect women and soon won't? Sorry I'm taken aback and slightly offended at that.

One thing I've learned over the years is that it's really, really  hard for me to relate to what it's like to be a female. I had a class review to go to one evening (i.e., after dark) in college.  A woman I knew in a different dorm was in my class.  After the review session, she proceeded to tell me that she called my dorm room (1993...no cell phones) so I could stop and get her on the way but I'd already left.  But since I was gone, two of her friends walked her there and walked back home together so no woman was ever out alone on campus.  That I should have offered to walk her never occurred to me.  Because I hadn't lived in that reality.

Now you read a lot about male Uber drivers asking female riders whether they're going home...to a boyfriend's?...etc.  My guess is that the vast majority of the drivers have no intent of committing a felony, but again, women live with discomfort (and some legitimate danger) that is really hard for men to relate to.  I've read that many won't go to a gym because of the pick-ups and/or ogling.  They live in a different world than men do and I think the world would be a better place if we were more able to consider how we're coming across in our interactions.

I have a co-worker who has told me she gets sexually harassed on the train nearly every time she rides it.  I was floored when she told me this.  I ride the same train and have never noticed this kind of thing...but then again, I'm listening to music and either reading or looking at my phone.  Part of why I don't realize that this stuff is fairly common is because I have the luxury of not realizing it.

Approaching someone you've never met and asking them out is kind of a gray area, but I don't think it's the best approach.  You only know what she looks like.  She's not the love of your life.  It's better to get to know someone first.  There's a good chance you're not the first person to approach her out of the blue this week and she's probably getting burned out from the "positive reinforcement."  But whatever you do, take no for an answer with no protest.

I would tell my daughters to avoid anyone like the plague that approached them.  You have to "know" someone.  Stranger danger and all that...unless you like taking the chance that you'll end up in someone's trunk.

PJPOWER

There are probably better ways than just trying to pick up random strangers...Throw a party and encourage your friends to bring friends (hopefully a single one), do you enjoy doing anything outdoors or book clubs or etc?  There are a lot of hobbyist groups out there that have local meetups, maybe even a political rallying group.  Volunteer at local outreach organizations to build relationships with others and to display the best of yourself. 
If there is someone on the train that you regularly run into and talk to, then yes, ask them out for coffee, but just going up asking people out that you have never engaged with otherwise is probably not the best course of action in my opinion.

stuckinline

tbergs said:

Instead of asking her out without any pretext, maybe try to start a conversation with her first and see if there is a common interest to get to know one another. I doubt any woman would accept a date from a random person they have never talked to, and if they did, well, you might be in for some crazy times.

^This.

ed243421

F Me In The Brain

Yes

ed243421 said:

Creepy (song context)

Creepy (being outside shower, uninvited, unannounced)

Creepy (a man wearing an Elf costume)

Awesome (in the movie where they set all of that up to be less creepy and handled as well as it could be)

PJ_Soul

Yes

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

I have been noticing that what men think female feminists like and don't like is almost always totally inaccurate. That is one of those times, lol. It worries me how a lot of men are taking the metoo movement as well. A lot of it seems to be going right over some men's heads (not all of course).

PJ_Soul

Yes

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

I totally agree with all of this.

And FWIW, when a man out in public proposes something like a drink or coffee with me, I can say yes or no. But no matter what that answer is, unless the guy is acting like a fucking creep or weirdo from the start (T_A, I frankly have doubts that you quite understand what creepy and not creepy behaviour really is), I'm flattered either way. Obviously a woman is only going to say yes if something about the guy interests her, be it personality, looks, vibe, or any or all of the above.

Gern Blansten

No

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

I totally agree with all of this.

And FWIW, when a man out in public proposes something like a drink or coffee with me, I can say yes or no. But no matter what that answer is, unless the guy is acting like a fucking creep or weirdo from the start (T_A, I frankly have doubts that you quite understand what creepy and not creepy behaviour really is), I'm flattered either way. Obviously a woman is only going to say yes if something about the guy interests her, be it personality, looks, vibe, or any or all of the above.

Right but Ted Bundy had personality, looks, vibe, etc.

PJ_Soul

Yes

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

I totally agree with all of this.

And FWIW, when a man out in public proposes something like a drink or coffee with me, I can say yes or no. But no matter what that answer is, unless the guy is acting like a fucking creep or weirdo from the start (T_A, I frankly have doubts that you quite understand what creepy and not creepy behaviour really is), I'm flattered either way. Obviously a woman is only going to say yes if something about the guy interests her, be it personality, looks, vibe, or any or all of the above.

Right but Ted Bundy had personality, looks, vibe, etc.

Yes, so? What's your point? Are people supposed to avoid everyone and assume everyone is a serial killer? That's not much of a life, is it? Life comes with risks, and we have to do our best to trust our instincts, and be appropriately cautious without ruining life in the process. Most people understand that.

FWIW, Bundy managed to kill those women by luring them into his car when they didn't know him. No woman should ever be alone with a stranger like that. Only a fool gets into a man's car or goes to his house or anywhere else alone with him before getting to know him at least a little bit. First and second dates at least should always be in public, and you meet him there. That's the kind of reasonable caution a woman can use while still living a life without being in constant fear, i.e. being able to go for a drink with someone she meets randomly and who's interested. It REALLY isn't as complicated as some people seem to think. Don't be dumb, but don't be paranoid. Pretty simple.

OffSheGoes35

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

Thoughts_Arrive said:

I don't about a 'yes'. With this me too movement and radical feminism I feel like it is frowned upon nowadays.

Me too movement and radical feminism?
Speaking as a friend who doesn't think you are a bad guy, you need to check those spiteful feelings at the door before they grow out of control into full on Incel territory.
I know you say you respect women, but there are signs that you don't, or soon won't.
You talk of women as though they are some inscrutable species from Venus that can't be understood or reasoned with.  They don't run from you in horror, they aren't out looking to drag poor lonely guys through the mud.  Women are people.  They are just people like you, and they don't owe you anything more than you owe them.  Like I said, I don't think you are a bad guy, but your eagerness to cast yourself as a victim is casting the women of your life as villains.

I don't understand why you asked the poll in the first place, is hitting on a stranger on the train something you would really do?  You refuse every other avenue, and that's the one you would consider?
It will come off a little creepy because you are only basing your assessment of the person's worth on their looks in that scenario, but there's a respectful way to do it.  Like I said, only a true stud is ever going to pull that off.
A stranger with a shared interest, like at a book club, class, gym, work, etc gives a much better opportunity because it's plausible that you want to get to know the person based off their interests and not just their body.

I totally agree with all of this.

And FWIW, when a man out in public proposes something like a drink or coffee with me, I can say yes or no. But no matter what that answer is, unless the guy is acting like a fucking creep or weirdo from the start (T_A, I frankly have doubts that you quite understand what creepy and not creepy behaviour really is), I'm flattered either way. Obviously a woman is only going to say yes if something about the guy interests her, be it personality, looks, vibe, or any or all of the above.

Right but Ted Bundy had personality, looks, vibe, etc.

Yes, never trust a good first impression, it's a bullshit scam for sure.