George H.W. Bush, the 41st U.S. president and father of the 43rd, has died at age 94

HughFreakingDillon

tbergs said:

Wow, take a break for a few hours and a thread about a dead president goes to shit over a dog posed in what is clearly meant to be a symbolic photo. If you haven't had a dog for a pet you may not be the best person to speak to how dogs act and the bond they form with their companion with them almost every hour of every day.

why do you assume that just because we don't agree with a point of view that we haven't been/aren't dog owners? I had a dog that our entire family loved and nearly worshipped for his entire 13 years. we knew the joy of having him as part of our family and the incredible pain of losing him when it was time. it was so painful losing him that we couldn't bear to get another one. it felt like replacing a family member. 

my parents still have a giant pic of him and my cat over the bar in their basement. and he died 20 years ago. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

Halifax2TheMax

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

Outdoor cats, more than any other reason/predator, have decimated the North American song bird population. They kill for thrills rather than solely for necessity.

Domestic cats kill between 1.4 and 3.7 billion birds and between 6.9 and 20.7 billion mammals (mostly mice, shrews, rabbits, squirrels, and voles) each year, according to a study published last year in Nature Communications.Dec 17, 2014

https://www.businessinsider.com/cats-kill-billions-of-birds-and-mammals-each-year-2014-12

PJ_Soul

Halifax2TheMax said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

Outdoor cats, more than any other reason/predator, have decimated the North American song bird population. They kill for thrills rather than solely for necessity.

Domestic cats kill between 1.4 and 3.7 billion birds and between 6.9 and 20.7 billion mammals (mostly mice, shrews, rabbits, squirrels, and voles) each year, according to a study published last year in Nature Communications.Dec 17, 2014

https://www.businessinsider.com/cats-kill-billions-of-birds-and-mammals-each-year-2014-12

People and human activity (cars, electrical wires, pesticides and other pollutants) kill far more than that. I'd prefer that domestic cats be allowed to prowl and humans do better about saving the birds. Not feral cats though. I don't want feral cats walking around at all - those poor things suffer horribly from disease and hunger and injury and exposure. I hope someday people can manage to end the problem of feral cats and stray dogs altogether.

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

I actually think that would be a great law. I like cats too, but love dogs way more. 
I just don't get it, just about every city has leash laws, but then cats are allowed to roam freely?
And its not that I think its unfair to have leash laws for one and not the other, I just don't see how it could be allowed to allow your property (a cat) to roam freely on someone else's lawn. It drives my dog nuts, 9/10 if he's barking, its probably because our neighbor's cat was just there. He goes crazy over those cats, and when he's older I wouldn't be surprised if he injured himself try to chase one down. Keep your cat in your yard and I'll keep my dog in mine.
Luckily I really like my neighbor and he's a good guy, so I don;t it bother me much. But if we didn't get along it'd be a different story.

Halifax2TheMax

Marra might like cats. But he also sees a bigger picture. In his day job, he and his team at the migratory bird center track the global movements of birds and tease apart threats to their existence. He knows that birds don’t just twit around pointlessly. They pollinate plants, spread seeds, control insects and protect environments from the effects of climate change; they are the glue that binds healthy ecosystems together. “Birds are critical,” he says. And outdoor cats, he and other ecologists have determined, are the leading human-influenced cause of dead birds.

Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-cats-180960505/#53vZmFKJxO0iyRHu.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-cats-180960505/

PJ_Soul

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

I actually think that would be a great law. I like cats too, but love dogs way more. 
I just don't get it, just about every city has leash laws, but then cats are allowed to roam freely?
And its not that I think its unfair to have leash laws for one and not the other, I just don't see how it could be allowed to allow your property (a cat) to roam freely on someone else's lawn. It drives my dog nuts, 9/10 if he's barking, its probably because our neighbor's cat was just there. He goes crazy over those cats, and when he's older I wouldn't be surprised if he injured himself try to chase one down. Keep your cat in your yard and I'll keep my dog in mine.
Luckily I really like my neighbor and he's a good guy, so I don;t it bother me much. But if we didn't get along it'd be a different story.

Leash laws are about safety. Cats don't tend to bite people or maul people and other dogs to death, or jump up on them during walks and scare the shit out of them, lol! Nor do cats shit where people walk.

PJ_Soul

Halifax2TheMax said:

Marra might like cats. But he also sees a bigger picture. In his day job, he and his team at the migratory bird center track the global movements of birds and tease apart threats to their existence. He knows that birds don’t just twit around pointlessly. They pollinate plants, spread seeds, control insects and protect environments from the effects of climate change; they are the glue that binds healthy ecosystems together. “Birds are critical,” he says. And outdoor cats, he and other ecologists have determined, are the leading human-influenced cause of dead birds.

Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-cats-180960505/#53vZmFKJxO0iyRHu.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/moral-cost-of-cats-180960505/

My cat is an indoor cat, but if she wasn't, she'd be scared shitless of birds. If anything is getting killed, it would be my cat killed by the bird, lol.

As I said, feral cats should not exist. If we could stop the feral cat problem, this bird problem you seem to be concerned about would not be such a problem. I still think it's weird to ban people from letting their cats into the yard (and they'll roam where they like). Dogs get to go outside all the time, to dog parks, on leash for walk, to the beach, and run around the back yard. It's totally unfair to expect that cats can't go outside. Obviously you can't walk cats and take them to parks and shit. Just letting them out is their only option. Some cats need this to be psychologically sound.

njnancy

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

I actually think that would be a great law. I like cats too, but love dogs way more. 
I just don't get it, just about every city has leash laws, but then cats are allowed to roam freely?
And its not that I think its unfair to have leash laws for one and not the other, I just don't see how it could be allowed to allow your property (a cat) to roam freely on someone else's lawn. It drives my dog nuts, 9/10 if he's barking, its probably because our neighbor's cat was just there. He goes crazy over those cats, and when he's older I wouldn't be surprised if he injured himself try to chase one down. Keep your cat in your yard and I'll keep my dog in mine.
Luckily I really like my neighbor and he's a good guy, so I don;t it bother me much. But if we didn't get along it'd be a different story.

Leash laws are about safety. Cats don't tend to bite people or maul people and other dogs to death, or jump up on them during walks and scare the shit out of them, lol! Nor do cats shit where people walk.

I find leash laws to be more for the safety of the dog here. There is traffic everywhere and if the dog were to just run (not bite or maul  ) as dogs do, there is a very good chance that they would be hit by a car. Imagine unleashed dogs walking around the streets of Manhattan. They would be running into traffic more than hurting people.

PJ_Soul

njnancy said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

I actually think that would be a great law. I like cats too, but love dogs way more. 
I just don't get it, just about every city has leash laws, but then cats are allowed to roam freely?
And its not that I think its unfair to have leash laws for one and not the other, I just don't see how it could be allowed to allow your property (a cat) to roam freely on someone else's lawn. It drives my dog nuts, 9/10 if he's barking, its probably because our neighbor's cat was just there. He goes crazy over those cats, and when he's older I wouldn't be surprised if he injured himself try to chase one down. Keep your cat in your yard and I'll keep my dog in mine.
Luckily I really like my neighbor and he's a good guy, so I don;t it bother me much. But if we didn't get along it'd be a different story.

Leash laws are about safety. Cats don't tend to bite people or maul people and other dogs to death, or jump up on them during walks and scare the shit out of them, lol! Nor do cats shit where people walk.

I find leash laws to be more for the safety of the dog here. There is traffic everywhere and if the dog were to just run (not bite or maul  ) as dogs do, there is a very good chance that they would be hit by a car. Imagine unleashed dogs walking around the streets of Manhattan. They would be running into traffic more than hurting people.

Fine, but that is not what leash laws are for at all. The LAWS are made because of public safety, and public complaints (and I'm not sure why the biting and mauling comment bothered you... It does happen obviously. I've actually been attacked by dogs 4 times in my life). Not because the law makers are worried about dogs bolting and getting run over. Especially since leash laws exist in quiet suburban and even some more rural areas, as well as in huge parks and on isolated trails, not just in cities. On leash laws are clearly not mainly made for the sake of dog safety.

njnancy

Each state and municipality has their own leash laws. West Virginia is the one state that does not have a leash law. And you are correct, in NJ at least it is so they do not annoy or harm people. 

I have always had rescue dogs, my parents always had rescue dogs and I have a sore spot for the bad rap that certain dogs get when it is the owners who are responsible for their bad behavior. Most dogs would not go after a person in a violent way; but there are assumptions about dogs that I do not like. Just a personal peeve. 

njnancy

Thread integrity - I am sure that Sully would not harm another dog or person unless they were attacking his owner. 

PJ_Soul

njnancy said:

Each state and municipality has their own leash laws. West Virginia is the one state that does not have a leash law. And you are correct, in NJ at least it is so they do not annoy or harm people. 

I have always had rescue dogs, my parents always had rescue dogs and I have a sore spot for the bad rap that certain dogs get when it is the owners who are responsible for their bad behavior. Most dogs would not go after a person in a violent way; but there are assumptions about dogs that I do not like. Just a personal peeve. 

Yeah, they're all different depending on where you are.

I absolutely love dogs. But I have also been attacked by dogs. It has nothing to do with a bad rap or whatever, and the reason a dog attacks someone is probably not that important to someone being attacked by a dog. Facts are facts. Leash laws are generally about public safety because dog attacks do happen, and because dogs do jump up on people against their wills (I personally love being jumped on by a happy dog as long as his feet aren't dirty), and dogs off leash do scare some people. I understand where you're coming from, but you also have to think about the people are ARE attacked by dogs (including me). Me, I don't expect most dogs to do any harm at all, and I love to see a happy dog running around off leash... But as a victim of dog attacks, I support laws that protect the public first. I also very, very much support laws that protect animals though. It's one of the main causes that I support. And all THAT said... I think pit bulls should be allowed to die out through breeding bans. I do want the ones that exist to be rescued and treated well too though.

njnancy

One of the accomplishments that George HW Bush did that I personally appreciate is The Americans With Disabilities Act. I used to think it was only about widening of doors and street corner access. Anyone can be hit with a career ending disability at anytime. I appreciate everything that this law embodies. No person wants to become disabled, and many disabilities are not obvious, but they are real. So thank you Mr. President. 

mace1229

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

I actually think that would be a great law. I like cats too, but love dogs way more. 
I just don't get it, just about every city has leash laws, but then cats are allowed to roam freely?
And its not that I think its unfair to have leash laws for one and not the other, I just don't see how it could be allowed to allow your property (a cat) to roam freely on someone else's lawn. It drives my dog nuts, 9/10 if he's barking, its probably because our neighbor's cat was just there. He goes crazy over those cats, and when he's older I wouldn't be surprised if he injured himself try to chase one down. Keep your cat in your yard and I'll keep my dog in mine.
Luckily I really like my neighbor and he's a good guy, so I don;t it bother me much. But if we didn't get along it'd be a different story.

Leash laws are about safety. Cats don't tend to bite people or maul people and other dogs to death, or jump up on them during walks and scare the shit out of them, lol! Nor do cats shit where people walk.

I agree with leash laws, I have no problem with them.
i just don’t get why it isn’t applied to all pets.
A cat may not maul l me to death, but I should be allowed to prevent it dome coming on my property and ruining my grass and other plants and making my dog go nuts. It’s my yard, get your stupid car out of it.

PJ_Soul

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

Manitoba. And now that I think about it, it's probably a civic by law, not a provincial one. 

Ohhh. I read Montana. But I guess the question applied equally to both, lol.

I am still disturbed by this... Although would need to know more. I mean, who recommended it? If, say, the SPCA or something recommended it, then that's something I'd consider. Certainly indoor cats are a hell of a lot safer than outdoor, with dramatically longer average lifespans, and the overpopulation problem might be solved with such a bylaw... But on the other hand (and assuming we're not talking farming communities), I feel bad for those cats who really really want to be outside. I'm okay with indoor only cats if they are happy that way... but some cats were just born to roam, and I think they should be allowed to if the owners feel it's best for their pet's happiness.

I actually think that would be a great law. I like cats too, but love dogs way more. 
I just don't get it, just about every city has leash laws, but then cats are allowed to roam freely?
And its not that I think its unfair to have leash laws for one and not the other, I just don't see how it could be allowed to allow your property (a cat) to roam freely on someone else's lawn. It drives my dog nuts, 9/10 if he's barking, its probably because our neighbor's cat was just there. He goes crazy over those cats, and when he's older I wouldn't be surprised if he injured himself try to chase one down. Keep your cat in your yard and I'll keep my dog in mine.
Luckily I really like my neighbor and he's a good guy, so I don;t it bother me much. But if we didn't get along it'd be a different story.

Leash laws are about safety. Cats don't tend to bite people or maul people and other dogs to death, or jump up on them during walks and scare the shit out of them, lol! Nor do cats shit where people walk.

I agree with leash laws, I have no problem with them.
i just don’t get why it isn’t applied to all pets.
A cat may not maul l me to death, but I should be allowed to prevent it dome coming on my property and ruining my grass and other plants and making my dog go nuts. It’s my yard, get your stupid car out of it.

Again, because of public safety being why the leash laws exists. Also, most cats cannot be on a leash, so that's a pretty major consideration. Some cats really need to be able to be outside for the sake of their well-being, but you can't generally walk a cat, or take them out to play at a cat park. It just doesn't work that way. The options available for dogs are not for cats. Certainly it sucks to have a cat wandering in your yard, but life isn't always fair. There are things you can do to deter cats from coming into your yard though. Google it - there are a ton of suggestions.

Halifax2TheMax

Team Trump Treason would have been sweaty, out of breath and his hair disheveled at that distance. Should have taken a helicopter though.

https://apple.news/A7uvHJAPBThmSrH7S3-1hHA

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

outdoor cats (unteathered) are outlawed in Manitoba. have been for many years. it's fucking creepy seeing my neighbours white cat teathered and walking in a circle with its belly on the ground

I wonder how the rat and mice populations are doing in Montana? This is insane to me. So there are no barn/farm cats?? Aren't there a shitload of farms and barns in Montana??

to answer your question though, i haven't noticed any increase at all in mice and rats, but rabbits and squirrels and chipmunks used to be seen rarely when i was a kid....now they fucking tear around like it's their playground. 

it's pretty cute having baby bunnies in the yard in the spring. 

not so cute throwing out eyeless baby bunnies from the fucking crows. 

Meltdown99

Former Secret Service agent: Why we loved Bush 41 (aka Timberwolf)

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/03/opinions/george-h-w-bush-support-law-enforcement-wackrow/index.html

Wobbie

oftenreading said:

tbergs said:

Wow, take a break for a few hours and a thread about a dead president goes to shit over a dog posed in what is clearly meant to be a symbolic photo. If you haven't had a dog for a pet you may not be the best person to speak to how dogs act and the bond they form with their companion with them almost every hour of every day.

I’ve had dogs, I’ve had that bond. I stand by my position that we are reading something different into that bond than the dogs are. Of course, my position is affected by having a degree in zoology. 

had to throw that in, didn’t you?

also, smartypants, I think “effected” may be the right word (at least here in the US) but I’m not 100% sure.