Should I ask Agnes out on a date?

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,759
    Yes
    Not to use this place as a 13 year old girl's personal blog...

    .... but, about the girl I mentioned who didn't like my jokey comment and ended our dating. We started texting again and she called me (drunk) and opened up a bit. Felt like she wanted to find a way to get back, but in texts she felt a bit off and with hesitation so I didn't really know.

    I wanted to clear the air. She agreed and with the fear it might be a break-up talk I went to her a week ago. As soon as she opened the door, whatever fabricated "being" I had turned her into from her texts stripped away - there she stood, this supercute, charming, hot, welcoming, (vegan) girl I had wanted to see and hug for weeks. And we hugged. And talked. The "joke" had been a culmination of something I had not had a clue about - she felt I had not shown that I really liked her and feared I was just with her until something better came along, and also that I had been very negative in comments supporting this fear of hers. I was surprised. She had been very affirmative towards me in ways (like talking about me coming along to her dads birthday) but I thought it was obvious I was into her and did not know my "sarcastic jargon" was taken as dismissive. So I told her my side of the story, that I didn't know really what she wanted out of us (us meeting through Tinder and all) and that I didn't want to "rock the boat" by saying something stupid that would make her "scared" - but that I did like her and that I had missed her (a lot). And that I had not realized my sarcasm had been taken as matter of fact dissing. I had even stopped seeing an "until something better comes along"-person as soon as I met this girl because I dug her so right off the bat - ironic enough.

    It seemed to me like we were cool -  the miscommunication was cleared up. She was happy and we snuggled, drank some tea and just hanged out like normal. She asked if I wanted to eat something, and it being really late I took it as a cute invite for me to stay. In the end I left her place at midnight with her looking happy and a text confirming she had enjoyed me visiting. I asked if she wanted to catch a movie or a play soon - which she seemed into.

    But this weekend she was getting "off" in texts (again) and didn't seem to be in a rush to meet. And last night she wrote and said she doesn't like me enough to see me ("I will never fall deep in love with you, so there is no point in seeing each other"). So first she was afraid I didn't like her enough because I did not show it - so I tell her how sorry I am about that not coming across and that I like her as much as she (seemed) to like me - only to face this problem of me liking her being a problem because she now doesn't like me (enough). So.. now it would have been better if I didn't "rock the boat" and told her I liked her? As she first presumed, so we could meet..(?).

    I've been down all last evening and day over this. This is the first girl in 10 years I've found charming enough to keep on seeing and see where it leads (whatever that might be). I remember the first time we met, I was surprised by me not wanting her to leave in the morning and wanting to see her again as soon as she left my apartment. That is not how it had been for me in a loooong time. There's something about her and being close to her that makes me happy. I even accept her not caring for Pearl Jam. And i really thought after the "bump in the road" that we were back on track. Whatever the track would be. I just knew we both were open with liking each other, and it felt right...

    If this was 15 years ago then-me would have gone to her and told her how stupid it all is and how this is a stupid mistake ending it. Maybe even quoting some Pearl Jam lyrics. 35 year old me just feels empty and like shit. And man, first one in 10 years that made me feel butterflies.

    Fucking shit.

    / Veddergirl84
    She sounds like a real mess. I'm sorry for you, because it sounds like you really like her. But better now than later, if she's so very wishy washy. I'm afraid this kind of behaviour isn't generally a one time kind of thing. If things somehow keep happening with you two (because she changes her mind again), prepare for ongoing drama and confusion.
    At least you know you're still capable of feeling butterflies for someone. That's a very good sign.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,039
    PJ_Soul said:
    I also have to rule out vegans.  Nothing against y'all, but I don't need a fucking lecture every god damn time I eat.
    Ditto. Actually, I'm not really interested in vegetarians either. I was engaged to one once and it kind of sucked. And not only because of the harassment about me eating meat, which did happen. It was just a drag to figure out meals and where to go out to eat and stuff. I hated it.
    Yeah. there's also that.  And the "we can just make x & y at home, we don't need to go out."  Like, no, the whole point is to go out and NOT be home!!

  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,431
    Yes
    Not to use this place as a 13 year old girl's personal blog...

    .... but, about the girl I mentioned who didn't like my jokey comment and ended our dating. We started texting again and she called me (drunk) and opened up a bit. Felt like she wanted to find a way to get back, but in texts she felt a bit off and with hesitation so I didn't really know.

    I wanted to clear the air. She agreed and with the fear it might be a break-up talk I went to her a week ago. As soon as she opened the door, whatever fabricated "being" I had turned her into from her texts stripped away - there she stood, this supercute, charming, hot, welcoming, (vegan) girl I had wanted to see and hug for weeks. And we hugged. And talked. The "joke" had been a culmination of something I had not had a clue about - she felt I had not shown that I really liked her and feared I was just with her until something better came along, and also that I had been very negative in comments supporting this fear of hers. I was surprised. She had been very affirmative towards me in ways (like talking about me coming along to her dads birthday) but I thought it was obvious I was into her and did not know my "sarcastic jargon" was taken as dismissive. So I told her my side of the story, that I didn't know really what she wanted out of us (us meeting through Tinder and all) and that I didn't want to "rock the boat" by saying something stupid that would make her "scared" - but that I did like her and that I had missed her (a lot). And that I had not realized my sarcasm had been taken as matter of fact dissing. I had even stopped seeing an "until something better comes along"-person as soon as I met this girl because I dug her so right off the bat - ironic enough.

    It seemed to me like we were cool -  the miscommunication was cleared up. She was happy and we snuggled, drank some tea and just hanged out like normal. She asked if I wanted to eat something, and it being really late I took it as a cute invite for me to stay. In the end I left her place at midnight with her looking happy and a text confirming she had enjoyed me visiting. I asked if she wanted to catch a movie or a play soon - which she seemed into.

    But this weekend she was getting "off" in texts (again) and didn't seem to be in a rush to meet. And last night she wrote and said she doesn't like me enough to see me ("I will never fall deep in love with you, so there is no point in seeing each other"). So first she was afraid I didn't like her enough because I did not show it - so I tell her how sorry I am about that not coming across and that I like her as much as she (seemed) to like me - only to face this problem of me liking her being a problem because she now doesn't like me (enough). So.. now it would have been better if I didn't "rock the boat" and told her I liked her? As she first presumed, so we could meet..(?).

    I've been down all last evening and day over this. This is the first girl in 10 years I've found charming enough to keep on seeing and see where it leads (whatever that might be). I remember the first time we met, I was surprised by me not wanting her to leave in the morning and wanting to see her again as soon as she left my apartment. That is not how it had been for me in a loooong time. There's something about her and being close to her that makes me happy. I even accept her not caring for Pearl Jam. And i really thought after the "bump in the road" that we were back on track. Whatever the track would be. I just knew we both were open with liking each other, and it felt right...

    If this was 15 years ago then-me would have gone to her and told her how stupid it all is and how this is a stupid mistake ending it. Maybe even quoting some Pearl Jam lyrics. 35 year old me just feels empty and like shit. And man, first one in 10 years that made me feel butterflies.

    Fucking shit.

    / Veddergirl84
    That sucks. She sounds like a player of games; so, not someone you actually want in your life, unless you like a lot of drama. It’s unfortunate that you have such strong feelings for her, but maybe not surprising, since some people operate on that constant push-me-pull-you level. You are better off finding out now, rather than a year down the line, but that doesn’t necessary make you feel any better, I know. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,916
    Yes
    Not to use this place as a 13 year old girl's personal blog...

    .... but, about the girl I mentioned who didn't like my jokey comment and ended our dating. We started texting again and she called me (drunk) and opened up a bit. Felt like she wanted to find a way to get back, but in texts she felt a bit off and with hesitation so I didn't really know.

    I wanted to clear the air. She agreed and with the fear it might be a break-up talk I went to her a week ago. As soon as she opened the door, whatever fabricated "being" I had turned her into from her texts stripped away - there she stood, this supercute, charming, hot, welcoming, (vegan) girl I had wanted to see and hug for weeks. And we hugged. And talked. The "joke" had been a culmination of something I had not had a clue about - she felt I had not shown that I really liked her and feared I was just with her until something better came along, and also that I had been very negative in comments supporting this fear of hers. I was surprised. She had been very affirmative towards me in ways (like talking about me coming along to her dads birthday) but I thought it was obvious I was into her and did not know my "sarcastic jargon" was taken as dismissive. So I told her my side of the story, that I didn't know really what she wanted out of us (us meeting through Tinder and all) and that I didn't want to "rock the boat" by saying something stupid that would make her "scared" - but that I did like her and that I had missed her (a lot). And that I had not realized my sarcasm had been taken as matter of fact dissing. I had even stopped seeing an "until something better comes along"-person as soon as I met this girl because I dug her so right off the bat - ironic enough.

    It seemed to me like we were cool -  the miscommunication was cleared up. She was happy and we snuggled, drank some tea and just hanged out like normal. She asked if I wanted to eat something, and it being really late I took it as a cute invite for me to stay. In the end I left her place at midnight with her looking happy and a text confirming she had enjoyed me visiting. I asked if she wanted to catch a movie or a play soon - which she seemed into.

    But this weekend she was getting "off" in texts (again) and didn't seem to be in a rush to meet. And last night she wrote and said she doesn't like me enough to see me ("I will never fall deep in love with you, so there is no point in seeing each other"). So first she was afraid I didn't like her enough because I did not show it - so I tell her how sorry I am about that not coming across and that I like her as much as she (seemed) to like me - only to face this problem of me liking her being a problem because she now doesn't like me (enough). So.. now it would have been better if I didn't "rock the boat" and told her I liked her? As she first presumed, so we could meet..(?).

    I've been down all last evening and day over this. This is the first girl in 10 years I've found charming enough to keep on seeing and see where it leads (whatever that might be). I remember the first time we met, I was surprised by me not wanting her to leave in the morning and wanting to see her again as soon as she left my apartment. That is not how it had been for me in a loooong time. There's something about her and being close to her that makes me happy. I even accept her not caring for Pearl Jam. And i really thought after the "bump in the road" that we were back on track. Whatever the track would be. I just knew we both were open with liking each other, and it felt right...

    If this was 15 years ago then-me would have gone to her and told her how stupid it all is and how this is a stupid mistake ending it. Maybe even quoting some Pearl Jam lyrics. 35 year old me just feels empty and like shit. And man, first one in 10 years that made me feel butterflies.

    Fucking shit.

    / Veddergirl84
    That sucks. She sounds like a player of games; so, not someone you actually want in your life, unless you like a lot of drama. It’s unfortunate that you have such strong feelings for her, but maybe not surprising, since some people operate on that constant push-me-pull-you level. You are better off finding out now, rather than a year down the line, but that doesn’t necessary make you feel any better, I know. 
    She appears, to me, as much as I can know from this post like a person who was in a relationship with someone who messed with her self confidence. I don't know if that is true or not and if so if it is just how she is or if she was in an abusive relationship and doesn't feel self worth from that situation. 

    I wouldn't automatically assume she is being dramatic and I definitely would not call her loco  :angry: . If you are really into her, take a step back and look at her texts and see if she is trying to self sabotage the relationship. People who have been in bad or abusive relationships will blow up a relationship, esp if it is a good one, because they 'know' it is going to end so it's an unconscious reaction to not get hurt. 

    Just be a nice guy and if she gets wishy washy, she may be struggling to trust more than being wishy washy on the relationship. Everyone has baggage of some sort and I didn't feel like she was playing games when I read your description. I  saw a person who had been demeaned in a relationship of some sort and was having a hard time being cool and collected in the dating game. 

    I could be wrong, of course, but I just thought I'd give an alternate view. She may like you a lot, she just doesn't believe that you could like her because someone told her she was worthless. It's a possibility. And if that is the case, she isn't doing the wishy washy thing on purpose to be dramatic, she is scared. She may not even realize why she is acting like she is or that she was in an abusive relationship. 

    I could be completely wrong, but from someone who has lived it, I recognized her....

    Good luck..
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
    Not to use this place as a 13 year old girl's personal blog...

    .... but, about the girl I mentioned who didn't like my jokey comment and ended our dating. We started texting again and she called me (drunk) and opened up a bit. Felt like she wanted to find a way to get back, but in texts she felt a bit off and with hesitation so I didn't really know.

    I wanted to clear the air. She agreed and with the fear it might be a break-up talk I went to her a week ago. As soon as she opened the door, whatever fabricated "being" I had turned her into from her texts stripped away - there she stood, this supercute, charming, hot, welcoming, (vegan) girl I had wanted to see and hug for weeks. And we hugged. And talked. The "joke" had been a culmination of something I had not had a clue about - she felt I had not shown that I really liked her and feared I was just with her until something better came along, and also that I had been very negative in comments supporting this fear of hers. I was surprised. She had been very affirmative towards me in ways (like talking about me coming along to her dads birthday) but I thought it was obvious I was into her and did not know my "sarcastic jargon" was taken as dismissive. So I told her my side of the story, that I didn't know really what she wanted out of us (us meeting through Tinder and all) and that I didn't want to "rock the boat" by saying something stupid that would make her "scared" - but that I did like her and that I had missed her (a lot). And that I had not realized my sarcasm had been taken as matter of fact dissing. I had even stopped seeing an "until something better comes along"-person as soon as I met this girl because I dug her so right off the bat - ironic enough.

    It seemed to me like we were cool -  the miscommunication was cleared up. She was happy and we snuggled, drank some tea and just hanged out like normal. She asked if I wanted to eat something, and it being really late I took it as a cute invite for me to stay. In the end I left her place at midnight with her looking happy and a text confirming she had enjoyed me visiting. I asked if she wanted to catch a movie or a play soon - which she seemed into.

    But this weekend she was getting "off" in texts (again) and didn't seem to be in a rush to meet. And last night she wrote and said she doesn't like me enough to see me ("I will never fall deep in love with you, so there is no point in seeing each other"). So first she was afraid I didn't like her enough because I did not show it - so I tell her how sorry I am about that not coming across and that I like her as much as she (seemed) to like me - only to face this problem of me liking her being a problem because she now doesn't like me (enough). So.. now it would have been better if I didn't "rock the boat" and told her I liked her? As she first presumed, so we could meet..(?).

    I've been down all last evening and day over this. This is the first girl in 10 years I've found charming enough to keep on seeing and see where it leads (whatever that might be). I remember the first time we met, I was surprised by me not wanting her to leave in the morning and wanting to see her again as soon as she left my apartment. That is not how it had been for me in a loooong time. There's something about her and being close to her that makes me happy. I even accept her not caring for Pearl Jam. And i really thought after the "bump in the road" that we were back on track. Whatever the track would be. I just knew we both were open with liking each other, and it felt right...

    If this was 15 years ago then-me would have gone to her and told her how stupid it all is and how this is a stupid mistake ending it. Maybe even quoting some Pearl Jam lyrics. 35 year old me just feels empty and like shit. And man, first one in 10 years that made me feel butterflies.

    Fucking shit.

    / Veddergirl84
    That sucks. She sounds like a player of games; so, not someone you actually want in your life, unless you like a lot of drama. It’s unfortunate that you have such strong feelings for her, but maybe not surprising, since some people operate on that constant push-me-pull-you level. You are better off finding out now, rather than a year down the line, but that doesn’t necessary make you feel any better, I know. 
    Starfire?


    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 14,350
    Yes

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • OffSheGoes35OffSheGoes35 Posts: 2,455
    No
    I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,759
    edited May 15
    Yes
    I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,916
    Yes
    I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 
    Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime. :wink:

    PJ_Soul said:
    I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.
    This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

    However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
    njnancy said:
    I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 
    Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime. :wink:

    PJ_Soul said:
    I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.
    This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

    However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 
    I wouldn't consider it blaming, but generally people don't go all in on an investment if things are looking difficult from the outset. ideally the beginning of a relationship isn't supposed to be fraught with drama and misunderstandings. that's supposed to come later when the spark is gone and you aren't as engaged as you were at the outset. 

    do I want to start dating someone who is going to take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and confusion? or someone I can sit and chat with over coffee and post-sex for hours on end?

    it's not "blaming" the damaged person. it's simply not wanting to be their caretaker or the focus of their damage. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,916
    Yes
    njnancy said:
    I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 
    Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime. :wink:

    PJ_Soul said:
    I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.
    This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

    However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 
    I wouldn't consider it blaming, but generally people don't go all in on an investment if things are looking difficult from the outset. ideally the beginning of a relationship isn't supposed to be fraught with drama and misunderstandings. that's supposed to come later when the spark is gone and you aren't as engaged as you were at the outset. 

    do I want to start dating someone who is going to take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and confusion? or someone I can sit and chat with over coffee and post-sex for hours on end?

    it's not "blaming" the damaged person. it's simply not wanting to be their caretaker or the focus of their damage. 
    Ouch!

    You didn't say anything wrong.

    It's one thing to talk about it with other women but to hear it from a man's perspective is incredibly depressing. 
  • OffSheGoes35OffSheGoes35 Posts: 2,455
    No
    We get it. That's why we're getting rocking chairs. One for me, one for Nancy. :rock_on: I don't know if Nancy is going to flip the bird at happy young couples as they go prancing by, but I sure as hell am!
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,431
    edited May 15
    Yes
    njnancy said:
    njnancy said:
    I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 
    Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime. :wink:

    PJ_Soul said:
    I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.
    This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

    However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 
    I wouldn't consider it blaming, but generally people don't go all in on an investment if things are looking difficult from the outset. ideally the beginning of a relationship isn't supposed to be fraught with drama and misunderstandings. that's supposed to come later when the spark is gone and you aren't as engaged as you were at the outset. 

    do I want to start dating someone who is going to take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and confusion? or someone I can sit and chat with over coffee and post-sex for hours on end?

    it's not "blaming" the damaged person. it's simply not wanting to be their caretaker or the focus of their damage. 
    Ouch!

    You didn't say anything wrong.

    It's one thing to talk about it with other women but to hear it from a man's perspective is incredibly depressing. 
    That doesn’t have to be a man’s perspective; that can be the perspective of anyone who doesn’t want to have to deal with the things that HFD doesn’t want to deal with, whether man or woman. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287
    edited May 15
    I think you might be onto something @njnancy - but if that is part of this shit, I do not think she's interested in me being part of breaking that pattern. She's not calling for help (to me), she just wants me gone.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • darwinstheorydarwinstheory LaPorte, INPosts: 3,193
    Yes
    Please keep in mind that some of us may understand what you mean in what may have happened to her. And it most certainly is a shame. But also keep in mind that if someone may have such deep seeded issues, it certainly still does not make it wrong for someone to walk away. Perhaps S_C:

    •has enough self awareness to know that maybe he is not the right type of guy to handle a person in such a fragile state

    •maybe he has been in the same type of relationship and is in the same state of mind she is in and he sees this as a potential long term issue

    •he may know that despite how into her he is, he is not equipped to be the fixer she needs. If so, that is perfectly fine. 


    "A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
  • OffSheGoes35OffSheGoes35 Posts: 2,455
    No
    I was just kidding, Nancy. I know I'm an instigator, but I won't flip youngsters off and get us killed. :)
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 14,350
    Yes

    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287
    edited May 15
    Leaving for Stockholm tomorrow morning for work. First with my colleagues at an award show-thing getting drunk and then a friday getting drunk with friends. Will try to get my mind off of the cute as I-don't-know-what. Will try to leave phone off while drunk.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,759
    Yes
    njnancy said:
    I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 
    Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime. :wink:

    PJ_Soul said:
    I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.
    This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

    However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 
    I am not blaming her for anything though, and didn't say anything is her fault, and didn't say she is bad. I am, however, advocating for self-preservation over taking a chance on a relationship that starts out with negative drama, which is usually simply a bad sign, whether the person causing it has suffered adversity in the past or not. I am NOT saying that nobody should ever date people who have been damaged or hurt (I have been badly hurt myself, more than once). I am saying that it might be best to avoid people who create a ton of drama at the beginning of a relationship, and who flip flop back and forth about his or her feelings. Those two things don't necessarily go hand in hand, but even if they do, I don't think anyone is obligated to put up with it. Those of us who are vulnerable don't all create unnecessary drama and confusion at beginnings of relationships, right? And I don't think it's really fair to expect other people to put up with a bunch of wishy-washiness, or else call them judgemental.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,759
    Yes
    njnancy said:
    njnancy said:
    I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 
    Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime. :wink:

    PJ_Soul said:
    I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.
    This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

    However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 
    I wouldn't consider it blaming, but generally people don't go all in on an investment if things are looking difficult from the outset. ideally the beginning of a relationship isn't supposed to be fraught with drama and misunderstandings. that's supposed to come later when the spark is gone and you aren't as engaged as you were at the outset. 

    do I want to start dating someone who is going to take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and confusion? or someone I can sit and chat with over coffee and post-sex for hours on end?

    it's not "blaming" the damaged person. it's simply not wanting to be their caretaker or the focus of their damage. 
    Ouch!

    You didn't say anything wrong.

    It's one thing to talk about it with other women but to hear it from a man's perspective is incredibly depressing. 
    That doesn’t have to be a man’s perspective; that can be the perspective of anyone who doesn’t want to have to deal with the things that HFD doesn’t want to deal with, whether man or woman. 
    For sure. It is my perspective as well. I have been taken on such early roller coaster rides, and it has never turned out to be worth it when I've tried to stick it out.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
    njnancy said:
    njnancy said:
    I recognized her too, Nancy. I'm so thankful that you found all the right words. I was struggling. Damaged people don't know how to go along with the Boy Meets Girl formula anymore. 
    Thanks. At least I can explain what a person that's met too many narcissists acts like and maybe someone can have a good future. It's up to him if he wants to bother to find out who she really is. I'll be working on finding some nice rocking chairs in the meantime. :wink:

    PJ_Soul said:
    I also recognize her, but I'm thinking about it from S_C's perspective only, and frankly, I think that anyone should walk away when red flags like that go up, whatever the causes of the behaviour may be. Maybe it's my cynicism talking, but at this point in my life I think it's better to be careful and preemptively avoid potential mega-drama in relationships. Aka, at the beginning of relationships, use the head, not the heart. I say this as someone with a very strong and long history of ignoring red flags because I thought our strong feelings for one another could overcome them, and that such problems could be worked out with time and love and tolerance, etc etc ... WRONG. They all usually just snowball.
    This is exactly why I don't even bother anymore. I figure since they are in their 30's that he should give her a chance. It's not her fault, if she indeed was manipulated at some point. I'd like to think that there are guys that won't blame her for what was done to her. It's just like getting used to a bitch or an introvert or an intellectual. Damaged people aren't bad people. We're actually very nice people in most cases, our vulnerability and non-judgemental nature is what was used against us. The asshole that messed us up is on to his next victim. She should have a chance at being understood. 

    However, at this point in my life I think that people would think exactly what you wrote and why bother being misunderstood or hurt or , most likely, fooled again. It is sad that the 'victim' is the one who winds up alone. And I'm not old enough to be okay with spending my life alone, but I have accepted the fact that I will most likely do just that. 
    I wouldn't consider it blaming, but generally people don't go all in on an investment if things are looking difficult from the outset. ideally the beginning of a relationship isn't supposed to be fraught with drama and misunderstandings. that's supposed to come later when the spark is gone and you aren't as engaged as you were at the outset. 

    do I want to start dating someone who is going to take me on a roller coaster ride of emotions and confusion? or someone I can sit and chat with over coffee and post-sex for hours on end?

    it's not "blaming" the damaged person. it's simply not wanting to be their caretaker or the focus of their damage. 
    Ouch!

    You didn't say anything wrong.

    It's one thing to talk about it with other women but to hear it from a man's perspective is incredibly depressing. 
    well i don't know why anyone, male or female, would expect special treatment because of how they were treated in the past, right off the bat. over the long term, absolutely, when there is ground work in the relationship already laid. but at the beginning? if a guy is a douche to you, or unclear, or wishy washy, do you give him a chance thinking it wasn't his fault he was treated that way in the past by other women? i would hope not. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • OffSheGoes35OffSheGoes35 Posts: 2,455
    No
     We understand your points. We understand why you feel the way you do. And some people have said that they understand how we feel. So what do we have to do, scream uncle? Nancy was just offering a different perspective. She wasn't trying to win an argument.
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 16,287
    edited May 16
    I wrote and said that I wanted another talk, when Im back. If its "final" then that is okey, but for me it would be good to know that when leaving the talk. I felt like the rug got pulled from under me last time. Hoodwinked. 

    Like when Pearl Jam cancels a show just a few days before the gig.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 19,201
     We understand your points. We understand why you feel the way you do. And some people have said that they understand how we feel. So what do we have to do, scream uncle? Nancy was just offering a different perspective. She wasn't trying to win an argument.
    what? no, i was just clarifying my perspective. i felt nancy was taking my position harsher than it is. i didn't think anyone was having an argument. 
    Headstones and Watchmen Fan Boy
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,916
    Yes
    I wrote and said that I wanted another talk, when Im back. If its "final" then that is okey, but for me it would be good to know that when leaving the talk. I felt like the rug got pulled from under me last time. Hoodwinked. 

    Like when Pearl Jam cancels a show just a few days before the gig.
    Ahhh....like leaving for the Hampton, VA show in April 2016 and hearing the news say that Pearl Jam had cancelled their Raleigh show. It was exactly when I was leaving and I had added Hampton because Raleigh was my 10C win on my birthday and it broke up the trip between NJ and NC. PJ had held out so long, I really thought that I was good for that show, but it was a horrible feeling to hear it as I was walking out the door.  My cheap back/side stage ticket,was front row and I was on Mike's side and got a pick - my first PJ show, amazing crowd, had a blast. But yeah, Raleigh....rug pulled out, definitely know what you're saying. 

    I hope your talk resolves the issues so that however it goes, you can feel like you know where you both stand and there isn't some awkward change in attitude all of a sudden. That is hard to deal with, it's not fun to think everything is great and then a text makes her ignore you. I get it. Glad that maybe I made sense of why it was happening, It sounds like you and her got along well, but if it is too weird then you know when you need to walk away. A last talk was a good idea on your part. Good luck! Hope it's an honest talk for both of you. 
  • njnancynjnancy Northern New JerseyPosts: 4,916
    Yes
    We get it. That's why we're getting rocking chairs. One for me, one for Nancy. :rock_on: I don't know if Nancy is going to flip the bird at happy young couples as they go prancing by, but I sure as hell am!
    Definitely got to mess with the young 'happy' couples. Make believe we know one of them and say 'oh, when did you get a new girlfriend?'. That would so mess with a teen's mind. Hehe. Twenty something's on a weekend night, coming home from the bars, catch a couple arguing and yell 'he's like that with all of them, don't pay attention'. Evil, yes. Care, no.

    But the rocking chairs are a must. No mumus though. We will be very cool, troublemaking with a smile, spinsters! :rock_on:

  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 19,962
    Maybe she's really uncomfortable communicating via text....?  It sounds like all of the negative words came through that medium, but you were better than fine in person.

    Just a thought.
  • OffSheGoes35OffSheGoes35 Posts: 2,455
    No
    njnancy said:
    We get it. That's why we're getting rocking chairs. One for me, one for Nancy. :rock_on: I don't know if Nancy is going to flip the bird at happy young couples as they go prancing by, but I sure as hell am!
    Definitely got to mess with the young 'happy' couples. Make believe we know one of them and say 'oh, when did you get a new girlfriend?'. That would so mess with a teen's mind. Hehe. Twenty something's on a weekend night, coming home from the bars, catch a couple arguing and yell 'he's like that with all of them, don't pay attention'. Evil, yes. Care, no.

    But the rocking chairs are a must. No mumus though. We will be very cool, troublemaking with a smile, spinsters! :rock_on:

    Evil, yes. Care, no. Sounds like something we can needlepoint on some pillows. :naughty:
    This idea just gets better and better.  =)
  • kce8kce8 Posts: 1,515
    I'm very sorry for you S_C! 

    Some girls just need someone who does not run away so quickly. Maybe she just felt uneasy, you know, she just needs that you not give up and show that you're serious with her.

    The older we get, the more uncompromising we become. This makes us suspicious and may prevent relationships that could had become really great.
    You don't have to be a "damaged" person to not easily trust others. 

    Nobody knows, if you like her that much just give her a chance… 

    Keep your phone off. Have fun this weekend! She'll send a message. If not - it's her own fault. Maybe she did already?
  • kce8kce8 Posts: 1,515
    dankind said:

    :lol: 

    Great! I have to steal it... ;)
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