City folk (like me) are disconnected with their food.
I understand this though. I understand the process undergone by other people who have grown or raised the food my family eats.
As much as evolution has been an astounding thing (getting to where he have come to)... it has its pitfalls.
You grew up rural didn't you? The country never leaves a person who was raised there.
We hunted and fished (we still 'casually' fish). I grew up with our deep freezer full of deer, moose, and fish- trout and salmon.
My parents owned a farm when I was small, but this doesn't count for me.
Gotcha, not full country mouse or city mouse, somewhere in between. I grew up and live still full country, but hunting has always been minimal for a country fella.
I always feel a little guilty: I never raised my son and daughter as I was raised.
Growing up, we were at the lake all summer. In the fall we hunted. During the winter it was skidooing and ice fishing every weekend. In the spring we fished.
My kids have not experienced this and I'm not sure if they have been ripped off or not?
any other connection to the outdoors you are giving them?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
City folk (like me) are disconnected with their food.
I understand this though. I understand the process undergone by other people who have grown or raised the food my family eats.
As much as evolution has been an astounding thing (getting to where he have come to)... it has its pitfalls.
You grew up rural didn't you? The country never leaves a person who was raised there.
We hunted and fished (we still 'casually' fish). I grew up with our deep freezer full of deer, moose, and fish- trout and salmon.
My parents owned a farm when I was small, but this doesn't count for me.
Gotcha, not full country mouse or city mouse, somewhere in between. I grew up and live still full country, but hunting has always been minimal for a country fella.
I always feel a little guilty: I never raised my son and daughter as I was raised.
Growing up, we were at the lake all summer. In the fall we hunted. During the winter it was skidooing and ice fishing every weekend. In the spring we fished.
My kids have not experienced this and I'm not sure if they have been ripped off or not?
any other connection to the outdoors you are giving them?
Just the idle stuff (hiking and such). We used to snowshoe when the kids were younger.
We do the neat stuff like (surf, swim and snorkel) when on vacation.
But all this doesn't equate to my experience. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I am just saying I can't help but feel I might have been wise to force myself to revisit more outdoor pursuits to mentor properly.
I'm also not going to hang myself for this either. We've done the best we could for our kids and they have not been neglected.
I'm not against hunting and fishing, both are part of my own heritage and I still engage in both from time to time. Whales though...those fuckers might be just as smart as us and they are certainly as loving as us. I don't like the idea of killing whales and dolphins, it's just not groovy.
Killing any animal - when it is not needed - is not groovy. Shouldn't need tiers on how loving or intelligent they are.
That thar be a slippery slope! What about the insects that are deliberately murdered on your veggie crops?
Not a fan of it.
But you accept it. Why?
In what way do you mean I accept it?
I try to not harm insects either, if I can help it. I try to by ecologically (maybe you call i organically though?) farmed things as much as possible.
And in a philosophical sense, I'd say we should try to not harm any other life - if we can help it.
But choosing a vegetarian option for you tomorrow for lunch instead of the slaughtered an murdered cow, or chicken, or fish is a very easy option to make. It's even SUPER EASY. It should be the only sane choice to make in 2018. Any other, shows a severe lack of empathy and thought.
What I mean is that thousands upon thousands of insects die for you to eat vegetables, whether grown organically or not, and you accept it and continue to eat the vegetables. If no distinction is to be made based on the intelligence and emotional depth of the living creature, then how do you draw the line. Shouldn't eating plants even be a problem under that ideology?
What do you think?
I think the distinction is relevant. We are animals too. Smart ones, sure, but animals nonetheless. We evolved to consume a large variety of living creatures and I don't think that can be cast aside easily. On the other hand, we really don't NEED to eat beef for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I think that starting with the smartest and most emotional animals as "off-limits" is a good way to push societies towards eating less meat over time. Guilt trips will only entrench the staunch carnivores, they won't make progress.
I also think veganism is silly. If you really care so much about your food then you should produce your own. There's nothing wrong with eggs, milk, and cheese if the animals aren't abused.
I have a hard time seeing the relevance of us being "animals too"? So?
I don't see how that could not be cast aside easily -- when it's easily proven it without a problem can be cast aside easily?
I also don't see the point in calling veganism or vegans silly. That way of living harms less living creatures than your diet, destroys the planet less and don't harm anyone. "It's silly to care". I'm trying to eat vegan as much as possible, but would not have a problem eating eggs etc if I had a couple of hens my self.
But, anyways - there is no defendable reason to eat meat in the western world in 2018. The only reasons are lack of empathy, ignorance and gluttony. Shitty people eat meat.
And I don't think we should kill whales if we can avoid it.
"Shitty people eat meat". Wtf??? What a statement! It's lines like that that fuel anti-vegan sentiments.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'm not against hunting and fishing, both are part of my own heritage and I still engage in both from time to time. Whales though...those fuckers might be just as smart as us and they are certainly as loving as us. I don't like the idea of killing whales and dolphins, it's just not groovy.
Killing any animal - when it is not needed - is not groovy. Shouldn't need tiers on how loving or intelligent they are.
That thar be a slippery slope! What about the insects that are deliberately murdered on your veggie crops?
Not a fan of it.
But you accept it. Why?
In what way do you mean I accept it?
I try to not harm insects either, if I can help it. I try to by ecologically (maybe you call i organically though?) farmed things as much as possible.
And in a philosophical sense, I'd say we should try to not harm any other life - if we can help it.
But choosing a vegetarian option for you tomorrow for lunch instead of the slaughtered an murdered cow, or chicken, or fish is a very easy option to make. It's even SUPER EASY. It should be the only sane choice to make in 2018. Any other, shows a severe lack of empathy and thought.
What I mean is that thousands upon thousands of insects die for you to eat vegetables, whether grown organically or not, and you accept it and continue to eat the vegetables. If no distinction is to be made based on the intelligence and emotional depth of the living creature, then how do you draw the line. Shouldn't eating plants even be a problem under that ideology?
What do you think?
I think the distinction is relevant. We are animals too. Smart ones, sure, but animals nonetheless. We evolved to consume a large variety of living creatures and I don't think that can be cast aside easily. On the other hand, we really don't NEED to eat beef for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I think that starting with the smartest and most emotional animals as "off-limits" is a good way to push societies towards eating less meat over time. Guilt trips will only entrench the staunch carnivores, they won't make progress.
I also think veganism is silly. If you really care so much about your food then you should produce your own. There's nothing wrong with eggs, milk, and cheese if the animals aren't abused.
I have a hard time seeing the relevance of us being "animals too"? So?
I don't see how that could not be cast aside easily -- when it's easily proven it without a problem can be cast aside easily?
I also don't see the point in calling veganism or vegans silly. That way of living harms less living creatures than your diet, destroys the planet less and don't harm anyone. "It's silly to care". I'm trying to eat vegan as much as possible, but would not have a problem eating eggs etc if I had a couple of hens my self.
But, anyways - there is no defendable reason to eat meat in the western world in 2018. The only reasons are lack of empathy, ignorance and gluttony. Shitty people eat meat.
And I don't think we should kill whales if we can avoid it.
"Shitty people eat meat". Wtf??? What a statement! It's lines like that that fuel anti-vegan sentiments.
Don't you dare talk about bbq around him; he will try to go for your jugular.
City folk (like me) are disconnected with their food.
I understand this though. I understand the process undergone by other people who have grown or raised the food my family eats.
As much as evolution has been an astounding thing (getting to where he have come to)... it has its pitfalls.
You grew up rural didn't you? The country never leaves a person who was raised there.
We hunted and fished (we still 'casually' fish). I grew up with our deep freezer full of deer, moose, and fish- trout and salmon.
My parents owned a farm when I was small, but this doesn't count for me.
Gotcha, not full country mouse or city mouse, somewhere in between. I grew up and live still full country, but hunting has always been minimal for a country fella.
I always feel a little guilty: I never raised my son and daughter as I was raised.
Growing up, we were at the lake all summer. In the fall we hunted. During the winter it was skidooing and ice fishing every weekend. In the spring we fished.
My kids have not experienced this and I'm not sure if they have been ripped off or not?
any other connection to the outdoors you are giving them?
Just the idle stuff (hiking and such). We used to snowshoe when the kids were younger.
We do the neat stuff like (surf, swim and snorkel) when on vacation.
But all this doesn't equate to my experience. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I am just saying I can't help but feel I might have been wise to force myself to revisit more outdoor pursuits to mentor properly.
I'm also not going to hang myself for this either. We've done the best we could for our kids and they have not been neglected.
next question I would have is, have you shared with them how you grew up? what were/are their thoughts on that? is those sort of things something that interests them?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
They are familiar with how I was raised. They aren't interested in that life.
If they expressed any kind of interest I would have for sure provided.
Your last question is where my doubts have entered my mind. I feel that maybe I should have exposed them more.
Having said that... we are all healthy and happy. We don't have anything to complain about. I'm typically in the habit of questioning everything including my beliefs and actions. I'm expressing this now I guess.
They are familiar with how I was raised. They aren't interested in that life.
If they expressed any kind of interest I would have for sure provided.
Your last question is where my doubts have entered my mind. I feel that maybe I should have exposed them more.
Having said that... we are all healthy and happy. We don't have anything to complain about. I'm typically in the habit of questioning everything including my beliefs and actions. I'm expressing this now I guess.
Thanks for taking an interest. Cheers!
cool. I'd posit it wouldnt be the same anyway. World is too filled with other distractions now
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The Inuit are not responsible for the decline in whale populations. They have a varied diet, they do not just eat whales. It is not practical for them to buy their meat when they can harvest their own, something they've been doing for 100's of years. And I will say again, this is their land ... they do not need permission from government set up by European conquerers as far as I'm concerned.
No one here is talking about permission. We are talking about morality and ethics and sustainability, not permission.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
The Inuit are not going to hunt every last whale ... that's just ridiculous.
You don’t have to kill every last member of a species to endanger it and eventually cause its extinction. Once the population falls below a certain number, the species can not recover, even if there are still living members, for many reasons including loss of genetic diversity. Some sub-species of beluga whales are already endangered and near extinction, including some Alaskan sub-species that were previously hunted.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Each to their own I hate nobody really. Nobody is shitty for making their own life Choices. Name calling won't solve any problems. I admire vegans and vegetarians my daughter is a vegetarian who eats vegan sometimes because she is dairy intolerant so foods labelled as vegan are safe for her . I eat meat and enjoy it. I try to not eat it all the time. And mix it up with veggie meals. Live and let live but Don t kill whales I say.
brixton 93
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
First of all, KISS blows so I'm not watching that lol Nickelback in make-up is not my thing.
Second, I don't love animals like you do. Not everyone is raised like you were. I was raised as a part of the natural world, not a thing separate from it. I'm not sure you can understand what difference that makes. Death is a natural part of life, as are suffering and joy. In the animal kingdom, suffering is the dominant state. Believe it. Now, I'm not claiming that killing animals to eat them is a service to them, but being a part of the cycle of life and death teaches you a perspective that you don't have. Cultivating this "love" for animals that has popped up in recent centuries is unnatural and it is just another piece in the mosaic of the human disconnect from our home planet and our origin.
Third, the mental gymnastics of veganism exist as well. There's a big hypocrisy is claiming ALL life has value, and then ignoring and diminishing the myriad lesser life forms that are destroyed in the process of your food production. The line has to be drawn somewhere, you know it and we know it, so stop pretending there is no line.
I would comment on the above back and forth, but this thread is already way off the rails the way it is.
I will say that killing whales as a part of your heritage is walking a pretty fine line in the current modern age. I respect the traditions and lifestyle they are trying to uphold, but I think at some point you have to weigh the pros and cons and determine if what you are doing makes sense anymore. We are meant to evolve not only physically, but also mentally, which means considering how the world has changed in relation to our practices and cultural customs.
With that said, I am sure there are tribes living in the rainforests that kill animals considered protected or endangered because it's still a part of their lifestyle because they are fully immersed in the historical culture and way of life their ancestors practiced. I will say that the main difference between them and the example of the Inuk with the Beluga Whale is that there is no promotion via technology. I think once you introduce modern day social media, you are losing the meaning and respect of the act. I wouldn't go to a funeral and snap a photo of me next to my grandma in the casket at the wake so everyone know what's going on.
It's a hopeless situation...
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,310
We started out talking about Inuit hunting whales, took a side trip to the corner of Vegan Lane and Carnivore Blvd, and ended up in Kissville.
What strange paths these threads wander.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
If the Inuit stopped harvesting their own food ... how are they going to eat? Most of the Inuit communities are located above the tree, have long cold winters ... so growing food is not an option. The price of food in the northern communities are extremely expensive because everything is pretty much flown. Asking the Inuit or any First Nation person to stop harvesting their own food is extremely selfish ... if not for this reason alone, this is their land ... deal with it.
Every single one of you posting against the Inuit way of life would be the first one's crying to your government if you had to pay those food prices...
Every single one of you posting against the Inuit way of life would be the first one's crying to your government if you had to pay those food prices...
Not buying ketchup or Sunny D would be a great start! lol I do have ketchup in my fridge, to be honest.
Every single one of you posting against the Inuit way of life would be the first one's crying to your government if you had to pay those food prices...
And you have done a really good job speaking without listening.
You have avoided responding to every solid counter point and as a result... you've lost your point and the discussion has stopped and switched to lifestyle (and farting mutant ninja turtles).
"My brain's a good brain!"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,310
Damn! I want to hear more about those farting mutant ninja turtles!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Every single one of you posting against the Inuit way of life would be the first one's crying to your government if you had to pay those food prices...
And you have done a really good job speaking without listening.
You have avoided responding to every solid counter point and as a result... you've lost your point and the discussion has stopped and switched to lifestyle (and farting mutant ninja turtles).
I have read and listened ... why I should I change my view. It's their land...prove me wrong, that it is not there land. Please, explain why they should give up their traditions. Harvesting their own meat and northern food prices go hand in hand ... my position is perfectly clear. I am not the who derailed this thread by bringing up vegans ... that was other people. I'm not one of these self righteous posters who thinks if I don't harvest my own food, or eat meat .... no one should.
Comments
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
We do the neat stuff like (surf, swim and snorkel) when on vacation.
But all this doesn't equate to my experience. I'm not saying one is better than the other. I am just saying I can't help but feel I might have been wise to force myself to revisit more outdoor pursuits to mentor properly.
I'm also not going to hang myself for this either. We've done the best we could for our kids and they have not been neglected.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
They are familiar with how I was raised. They aren't interested in that life.
If they expressed any kind of interest I would have for sure provided.
Your last question is where my doubts have entered my mind. I feel that maybe I should have exposed them more.
Having said that... we are all healthy and happy. We don't have anything to complain about. I'm typically in the habit of questioning everything including my beliefs and actions. I'm expressing this now I guess.
Thanks for taking an interest. Cheers!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
So I do no really see why my way of arguing should matter.
It's as...
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
was convicted of murder
2 a : something very difficult or dangerous
the traffic was murder
carrying the luggage was murder on my back
b : something outrageous or blameworthy
getting away with murder
3 : a flock of crows
There's a reason the proper term for a flock of them is a murder of crows, and it's not because we like having them around. —Jeffrey Kluger
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Nickelback in make-up is not my thing.
Second, I don't love animals like you do.
Not everyone is raised like you were. I was raised as a part of the natural world, not a thing separate from it. I'm not sure you can understand what difference that makes. Death is a natural part of life, as are suffering and joy. In the animal kingdom, suffering is the dominant state. Believe it. Now, I'm not claiming that killing animals to eat them is a service to them, but being a part of the cycle of life and death teaches you a perspective that you don't have. Cultivating this "love" for animals that has popped up in recent centuries is unnatural and it is just another piece in the mosaic of the human disconnect from our home planet and our origin.
Third, the mental gymnastics of veganism exist as well. There's a big hypocrisy is claiming ALL life has value, and then ignoring and diminishing the myriad lesser life forms that are destroyed in the process of your food production. The line has to be drawn somewhere, you know it and we know it, so stop pretending there is no line.
Fourth, man, KISS really blows lol
This is stupid.
There's been some dumb memes on this forum lately, but this might be the dumbest.
I would comment on the above back and forth, but this thread is already way off the rails the way it is.
I will say that killing whales as a part of your heritage is walking a pretty fine line in the current modern age. I respect the traditions and lifestyle they are trying to uphold, but I think at some point you have to weigh the pros and cons and determine if what you are doing makes sense anymore. We are meant to evolve not only physically, but also mentally, which means considering how the world has changed in relation to our practices and cultural customs.
With that said, I am sure there are tribes living in the rainforests that kill animals considered protected or endangered because it's still a part of their lifestyle because they are fully immersed in the historical culture and way of life their ancestors practiced. I will say that the main difference between them and the example of the Inuk with the Beluga Whale is that there is no promotion via technology. I think once you introduce modern day social media, you are losing the meaning and respect of the act. I wouldn't go to a funeral and snap a photo of me next to my grandma in the casket at the wake so everyone know what's going on.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
https://www.businessinsider.com/food-prices-high-northern-canada-2017-9
Every single one of you posting against the Inuit way of life would be the first one's crying to your government if you had to pay those food prices...
I do have ketchup in my fridge, to be honest.
And you have done a really good job speaking without listening.
You have avoided responding to every solid counter point and as a result... you've lost your point and the discussion has stopped and switched to lifestyle (and farting mutant ninja turtles).
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"