$15 minimum wage

Gern Blansten

Halifax2TheMax said:

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe it works different in the US.  In Canada Divorce laws are federal...

Alimony or spousal support is tax deductible but child support is not. I'm just wondering why its a deduction?

Alimony is a deduction for the payor and income for the payee...it's meant to be a transfer of income and, therefore, the tax burden follows the income

Child support is not deductible by the payor because it is to represent payment for personal expenses of the child that are not normally deductible.  Plus...the payor generally gets a tax exemption (prior to 2018) and/or tax credits for the dependent.

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe it works different in the US.  In Canada Divorce laws are federal...

Alimony or spousal support is tax deductible but child support is not. I'm just wondering why its a deduction?

Isn't it just because it's a hardship to have to pay taxes on money you're giving away to another person to spend and pay taxes on, aside from the double-dipping factor. I mean, I admit I'm a pretty big tax law dummy, but I think it goes: person pays income tax on all income, then gives some of that income to another person, and therefore deducts in order to recover at least some of those income taxes because it's really not income for him or her at all at the end of the day, but for their ex-spouse instead. And the ex-spouse turns around and pays tax on that income, making up for the initial deductions .... Right? I think it's not the same for child support because, well, that's money going to his or her kids, who are dependents, while ex-spouses are generally not .... I would imagine that the person paying child support does get to include that under the dependents section though.

There are several ways to pay spousal support in Canada.  The couple that is separating can come to an agreement on their own and the arrangements remain off the books (the person paying support would pay all taxes, in exchange for low spousal support, the other way I'm familiar is go through a lawyer and spousal support payer gets the tax deduction and person pays taxes ... once lawyers are involved the person paying spousal support payments usually increase.  As for child support, that is a whole different area and you need a lawyer with good math skills to figure.  In all fairness, from what I can tell Canada has good divorce laws.  The problem for some is collecting.

PJ_Soul

Okay, I was really just talking about actually filing your taxes, not the process of coming to a divorce agreement.

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Okay, I was really just talking about actually filing your taxes, not the process of coming to a divorce agreement.

I imagine you just file your taxes the same way, except their are boxes for spousal support and child support...

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Okay, I was really just talking about actually filing your taxes, not the process of coming to a divorce agreement.

I imagine you just file your taxes the same way, except their are boxes for spousal support and child support...

Kay, what I mean is, I was just talking about exactly what I posted above. I.e. why one deducts alimony while filing their taxes ..... Not how one arrives at the point where they have to do so.

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Okay, I was really just talking about actually filing your taxes, not the process of coming to a divorce agreement.

I imagine you just file your taxes the same way, except their are boxes for spousal support and child support...

Kay, what I mean is, I was just talking about exactly what I posted above. I.e. why one deducts alimony while filing their taxes ..... Not how one arrives at the point where they have to do so.

Ok gotcha...Gern Blansten said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Meltdown99 said:

Maybe it works different in the US.  In Canada Divorce laws are federal...

Alimony or spousal support is tax deductible but child support is not. I'm just wondering why its a deduction?

Alimony is a deduction for the payor and income for the payee...it's meant to be a transfer of income and, therefore, the tax burden follows the income

Child support is not deductible by the payor because it is to represent payment for personal expenses of the child that are not normally deductible.  Plus...the payor generally gets a tax exemption (prior to 2018) and/or tax credits for the dependent.

Thanks for the clarity.  That makes perfect sense.  

Meltdown99

The quotes fuck up, or user error ^^

unsung

cincybearcat said:

CM189191 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways.  How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.

How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?

Ummmm because “the government” doesn’t have the means to do that unless they take it from other people. 

Mostly i I disagree with the “expect” portion of this.  I’m ok with moving closer to being able to do all of this...but “expecting” the government to provide it for you is basically expecting others to pay for you.  

How is that different from anything else it perceives to provide?

1ThoughtKnown

Minimum wage has gone up here in Alberta.. I think its close to $15/hr.  I haven't even noticed anything get more expensive. I'm sure it has but I'm not really a big "consumer".  I generally despise shopping so it hasn't effected me one bit.  Maybe dinners out have risen slightly but I couldn't tell you for sure. 

Giving people a living wage is step one. Guaranteed income for all is step 2.  Enough with all this Republican/Conservative nonsense on how it will ruin the economy.  Only a half-wit could really argue these points, unless they are paid by a right wing think tank

Meltdown99

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

brianlux

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

I will clarify, I live 4 hours south of Toronto...where I live is affordable making 14/hour, in Toronto, no way that is liveable. In Ontario, we used to have a student, farm, server minimum wages...

I like your idea about seniors, I wonder how many seniors would love to work in your book store just to make a few bucks to make life easier, but it would help many combat loneliness at the same time...loneliness among seniors is getting worse they say.

oftenreading

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

Unfortunately, a lot of students and retired people are working to survive, not to get out of the house a little, and it just isn't fair that their labour is valued less than other adults. The "starving student" isn't just a myth. Way back when I was in university, I had a job all the way through, so that I could afford to eat on top of tuition and rent and books and everything else. Costs are higher now, even more students are struggling, and we have seniors who can't afford to retire. If there are seniors out there who are only working to have something to do, then they can volunteer. 

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

Unfortunately, a lot of students and retired people are working to survive, not to get out of the house a little, and it just isn't fair that their labour is valued less than other adults. The "starving student" isn't just a myth. Way back when I was in university, I had a job all the way through, so that I could afford to eat on top of tuition and rent and books and everything else. Costs are higher now, even more students are struggling, and we have seniors who can't afford to retire. If there are seniors out there who are only working to have something to do, then they can volunteer. 

Why does it have to be black or white.  Why can there not be exceptions?   A lot of students would be happy to make a few bucks while still living at home and not being self supportive and a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness- or maybe they just need that little extra money to get by and no one will hire them except for bookstores like our- but only if we can afford to do so.  Please consider what I am saying here.  You did not address either of those.

oftenreading

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

Unfortunately, a lot of students and retired people are working to survive, not to get out of the house a little, and it just isn't fair that their labour is valued less than other adults. The "starving student" isn't just a myth. Way back when I was in university, I had a job all the way through, so that I could afford to eat on top of tuition and rent and books and everything else. Costs are higher now, even more students are struggling, and we have seniors who can't afford to retire. If there are seniors out there who are only working to have something to do, then they can volunteer. 

Why does it have to be black or white.  Why can there not be exceptions?   A lot of students would be happy to make a few bucks while still living at home and not being self supportive and a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness- or maybe they just need that little extra money to get by and no one will hire them except for bookstores like our- but only if we can afford to do so.  Please consider what I am saying here.  You did not address either of those.

How can legislation be enacted that would allow for differences in pay depending on what you're suggesting? How can one enact legislation that says this senior citizen doesn't really need to work but that one does? How do you separate this 17 year old who lives in a middle class family and just wants a bit of money for flashy sneakers from that one who was kicked out, or left home because of abuse, and needs to work to live? I can't see any practical or fair way to do that. 

Yes, I did address the issue of "a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness" - those are the people that can have those needs and more met by volunteering, which surely would give a greater sense of contribution and accomplishment because it would be directly helping others, or a cause important to them. 

brianlux

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

Unfortunately, a lot of students and retired people are working to survive, not to get out of the house a little, and it just isn't fair that their labour is valued less than other adults. The "starving student" isn't just a myth. Way back when I was in university, I had a job all the way through, so that I could afford to eat on top of tuition and rent and books and everything else. Costs are higher now, even more students are struggling, and we have seniors who can't afford to retire. If there are seniors out there who are only working to have something to do, then they can volunteer. 

Why does it have to be black or white.  Why can there not be exceptions?   A lot of students would be happy to make a few bucks while still living at home and not being self supportive and a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness- or maybe they just need that little extra money to get by and no one will hire them except for bookstores like our- but only if we can afford to do so.  Please consider what I am saying here.  You did not address either of those.

How can legislation be enacted that would allow for differences in pay depending on what you're suggesting? How can one enact legislation that says this senior citizen doesn't really need to work but that one does? How do you separate this 17 year old who lives in a middle class family and just wants a bit of money for flashy sneakers from that one who was kicked out, or left home because of abuse, and needs to work to live? I can't see any practical or fair way to do that. 

Yes, I did address the issue of "a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness" - those are the people that can have those needs and more met by volunteering, which surely would give a greater sense of contribution and accomplishment because it would be directly helping others, or a cause important to them. 

I agree, making those differences would be difficult. But I do think it could be done.  Much more difficult and complex issues are dealt with by the IRS, for example.  

As for the elderly- what about the retired person who would benefit from having a 10 hour a week job making $10 or $12 an hour- giving her or him those couple extra hundred dollars that would make the difference between eating oatmeal for breakfast every day or maybe being able to have eggs and an English muffin once in a while?  Or keeping the thermostat at 66 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter instead of 62?  There are a lot of elderly on fixed incomes who have a tough time getting by on social security- many of them need that extra couple of hundred dollars a month to get by.  Who is going to help them with that?  Not many.  But I've seen it done where I work. 

And what about the small businesses on Main Street that cannot afford to pay every retail or service employee $15 an hour.  Do we really want them to all just shut down, thus eroding an already weakened sense of community in many places?

And then there is the issue of proximity.  At $15 an hour, most people where I live (El Dorado County, Calif.) can get by OK, but just.  Almost anywhere in the Bay Area a couple hours away, next to impossible.

So my proposal would be to set minimum wage based on county location, and draw up a basic plan for exemptions to minimum wage based on reasonable factors as I've outlined. 

rgambs

Aren't there usually exemptions for small enough businesses with low enough revenue?
I know there have always been such protections in Ohio.

Meltdown99

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

Unfortunately, a lot of students and retired people are working to survive, not to get out of the house a little, and it just isn't fair that their labour is valued less than other adults. The "starving student" isn't just a myth. Way back when I was in university, I had a job all the way through, so that I could afford to eat on top of tuition and rent and books and everything else. Costs are higher now, even more students are struggling, and we have seniors who can't afford to retire. If there are seniors out there who are only working to have something to do, then they can volunteer. 

Why does it have to be black or white.  Why can there not be exceptions?   A lot of students would be happy to make a few bucks while still living at home and not being self supportive and a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness- or maybe they just need that little extra money to get by and no one will hire them except for bookstores like our- but only if we can afford to do so.  Please consider what I am saying here.  You did not address either of those.

How can legislation be enacted that would allow for differences in pay depending on what you're suggesting? How can one enact legislation that says this senior citizen doesn't really need to work but that one does? How do you separate this 17 year old who lives in a middle class family and just wants a bit of money for flashy sneakers from that one who was kicked out, or left home because of abuse, and needs to work to live? I can't see any practical or fair way to do that. 

Yes, I did address the issue of "a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness" - those are the people that can have those needs and more met by volunteering, which surely would give a greater sense of contribution and accomplishment because it would be directly helping others, or a cause important to them. 

I agree, making those differences would be difficult. But I do think it could be done.  Much more difficult and complex issues are dealt with by the IRS, for example.  

As for the elderly- what about the retired person who would benefit from having a 10 hour a week job making $10 or $12 an hour- giving her or him those couple extra hundred dollars that would make the difference between eating oatmeal for breakfast every day or maybe being able to have eggs and an English muffin once in a while?  Or keeping the thermostat at 66 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter instead of 62?  There are a lot of elderly on fixed incomes who have a tough time getting by on social security- many of them need that extra couple of hundred dollars a month to get by.  Who is going to help them with that?  Not many.  But I've seen it done where I work. 

And what about the small businesses on Main Street that cannot afford to pay every retail or service employee $15 an hour.  Do we really want them to all just shut down, thus eroding an already weakened sense of community in many places?

And then there is the issue of proximity.  At $15 an hour, most people where I live (El Dorado County, Calif.) can get by OK, but just.  Almost anywhere in the Bay Area a couple hours away, next to impossible.

So my proposal would be to set minimum wage based on county location, and draw up a basic plan for exemptions to minimum wage based on reasonable factors as I've outlined. 

Brian, a year ago Ontario increased the minimum to 14/hr, it was about a 2.60 increase, all at one time.  I am telling you this, the only people who gave a damn what small business said, were other small business owners.  And it did increase the price of most everything.  Another thing about minimum wage, if you increase minimum, then those living on fixed pensions need an increase and that never happens.

brianlux

rgambs said:

Aren't there usually exemptions for small enough businesses with low enough revenue?
I know there have always been such protections in Ohio.

Sadly, not in California.

Meltdown99 said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

oftenreading said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

Unfortunately, a lot of students and retired people are working to survive, not to get out of the house a little, and it just isn't fair that their labour is valued less than other adults. The "starving student" isn't just a myth. Way back when I was in university, I had a job all the way through, so that I could afford to eat on top of tuition and rent and books and everything else. Costs are higher now, even more students are struggling, and we have seniors who can't afford to retire. If there are seniors out there who are only working to have something to do, then they can volunteer. 

Why does it have to be black or white.  Why can there not be exceptions?   A lot of students would be happy to make a few bucks while still living at home and not being self supportive and a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness- or maybe they just need that little extra money to get by and no one will hire them except for bookstores like our- but only if we can afford to do so.  Please consider what I am saying here.  You did not address either of those.

How can legislation be enacted that would allow for differences in pay depending on what you're suggesting? How can one enact legislation that says this senior citizen doesn't really need to work but that one does? How do you separate this 17 year old who lives in a middle class family and just wants a bit of money for flashy sneakers from that one who was kicked out, or left home because of abuse, and needs to work to live? I can't see any practical or fair way to do that. 

Yes, I did address the issue of "a lot of older folks who have enough money to live on comfortably like having part-time work because it gives them a sense of accomplishment and contributing as well as to combat loneliness or idleness" - those are the people that can have those needs and more met by volunteering, which surely would give a greater sense of contribution and accomplishment because it would be directly helping others, or a cause important to them. 

I agree, making those differences would be difficult. But I do think it could be done.  Much more difficult and complex issues are dealt with by the IRS, for example.  

As for the elderly- what about the retired person who would benefit from having a 10 hour a week job making $10 or $12 an hour- giving her or him those couple extra hundred dollars that would make the difference between eating oatmeal for breakfast every day or maybe being able to have eggs and an English muffin once in a while?  Or keeping the thermostat at 66 degrees Fahrenheit in the winter instead of 62?  There are a lot of elderly on fixed incomes who have a tough time getting by on social security- many of them need that extra couple of hundred dollars a month to get by.  Who is going to help them with that?  Not many.  But I've seen it done where I work. 

And what about the small businesses on Main Street that cannot afford to pay every retail or service employee $15 an hour.  Do we really want them to all just shut down, thus eroding an already weakened sense of community in many places?

And then there is the issue of proximity.  At $15 an hour, most people where I live (El Dorado County, Calif.) can get by OK, but just.  Almost anywhere in the Bay Area a couple hours away, next to impossible.

So my proposal would be to set minimum wage based on county location, and draw up a basic plan for exemptions to minimum wage based on reasonable factors as I've outlined. 

Brian, a year ago Ontario increased the minimum to 14/hr, it was about a 2.60 increase, all at one time.  I am telling you this, the only people who gave a damn what small business said, were other small business owners.  And it did increase the price of most everything.  Another thing about minimum wage, if you increase minimum, then those living on fixed pensions need an increase and that never happens.

Good point.  That's why, when people mention "retirement" I say, bullshit!  No way am I ever going to retire (except when my body retires permanently).

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

The minimum wage thing is a little fucked up.  In Ontario, it is 14/hour ... no problem with that, except, a report was released that in my area 14/hour is considered a living wage.  How the fuck is 14 a living wage in Toronto?  I think the provinces need to allow large cities to decide minimum wage.

That's where the minimum wage concept is screwed up.  It doesn't take into account cost of living in differing areas.  There should also be exceptions for students who want a part-time job to get a little cash going or retired people who just want something to do and not be alone all the time.  We have both kinds of employees at my wife's bookstore and if minimum wages go to have, we will not be able to afford to keep them on.  Small business is a struggle as it is.  $15 minimum wage in many areas will hurt small businesses and would be unfair to those students and elderly. 

I think paying people differently like that would be a huge mistake. People doing the same work, but with some of them doing it for way less money??? Nope. That can't work. Companies would just totally fill their rosters with part time student workers then, leaving those who need a living wage without jobs.