All the merch gone bad!

crookedcross

tempo_n_groove said:

crookedcross said:

Also, sorry and no offense but if you want a memento, take a picture, put it on canvas. To go ape shit over posters is a little petty to me, not necessarily you, but people I see around in general. It cracks me up when people say "it is a MUST to have that poster because it means so much to me bla bla". Ummm no. You are putting material over what the show means to you.  That show will always be in your heart. Why do you need a poster? Save your beer cup. Don't wash your stank shirt. Something.  Does it really have to be a poster or anything that has the show info? To have a print is a great bonus, but nothing more to me.

Lastly, FWIW, kids are shooting each other over Jordans at least once a year and MJ is still making limited shoes.  We're not there yet, but yea... I don't see anything changing.

Is that a thing anymore?  Jordans are hardly "rare" anymore.  Flight Club is going out of business soon.  They jumped the shark.  All the kids are wearing ADIDAS now.  

As for the merch this year though the stickers and pins are a disappointment.  That key chain is cool though.

I dont follow Jordans, but I read the news... sometimes.  Lol  I remember seeing one last year.  Not sure this year. Agree with you on pins and stickers.  City-specific designs are more fun than just changing the image in the circle

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I have a suggestion for the Seattle shows @Santos L. Halper :

This idea is in 'rough' form and sorry if it has already been suggested. You guys are better at working out the details.

What if there was an outdoor merch booth that set its time for 3 pm? Allow 10C members 2pm entry?

Honestly, at this point, I'd love to spend some money at the merch booths, but I can't see fighting the hordes to get a few posters when I could be spending time having a few ipas on an outdoor patio somewhere.

Without a reasonable option... I'm afraid I'm out of the merch game. I know that makes no difference to you guys with regards to the bottom line (there'll be plenty of people buying that stuff)... but it sure would show you love us!

Either way. Thanks for listening. 

deadendp

jeffbr said:

This is an issue PJ created, enables and perpetuates. They can put a stop to it at any time. They've obviously chosen merch as their primary source of income and focus, so it is what it is. Music is now a secondary concern.

I don't agree at all.  

drakeheuer14

jeffbr said:

This is an issue PJ created, enables and perpetuates. They can put a stop to it at any time. They've obviously chosen merch as their primary source of income and focus, so it is what it is. Music is now a secondary concern.

Most bands rely on merch for a lot of the income.

jeffbr

deadendp said:

jeffbr said:

This is an issue PJ created, enables and perpetuates. They can put a stop to it at any time. They've obviously chosen merch as their primary source of income and focus, so it is what it is. Music is now a secondary concern.

I don't agree at all.  

With which part? Neither? You don't think PJ created the scarcity, which created the demand? You don't think PJ could either increase supply or move merch booths inside to prevent non-ticket holders from doing a merch grab (thus further limiting supply to fans)? As far as my last sentence, the quality and quantity of their output of late informs my opinion there.

jeffbr

drakeheuer14 said:

jeffbr said:

This is an issue PJ created, enables and perpetuates. They can put a stop to it at any time. They've obviously chosen merch as their primary source of income and focus, so it is what it is. Music is now a secondary concern.

Most bands rely on merch for a lot of the income.

No argument there. Touring and merch are the big money makers now. Music, not so much. That's the state of the industry. I don't begrudge them at all for that.

RP112579

jeffbr said:

deadendp said:

jeffbr said:

This is an issue PJ created, enables and perpetuates. They can put a stop to it at any time. They've obviously chosen merch as their primary source of income and focus, so it is what it is. Music is now a secondary concern.

I don't agree at all.  

With which part? Neither? You don't think PJ created the scarcity, which created the demand? You don't think PJ could either increase supply or move merch booths inside to prevent non-ticket holders from doing a merch grab (thus further limiting supply to fans)? As far as my last sentence, the quality and quantity of their output of late informs my opinion there.

The biggest myth is that the outdoor merch stand is full of non ticket holders in the line. I'd bet it's less than 1%. It's not hard to figure out that the fans are the flippers, the fans are the rafflers, the 10c members are the flippers, the 10c members are the rafflers. Some of the biggest money makers from merch are regulars in this forum. It's not just hundreds of random people who aren't fans standing outside to buy up all the merch to resell. If anyone thinks putting merch only inside of the venue will solve the "merch craze", you're wrong.

deadendp

jeffbr said:

deadendp said:

jeffbr said:

This is an issue PJ created, enables and perpetuates. They can put a stop to it at any time. They've obviously chosen merch as their primary source of income and focus, so it is what it is. Music is now a secondary concern.

I don't agree at all.  

With which part? Neither? You don't think PJ created the scarcity, which created the demand? You don't think PJ could either increase supply or move merch booths inside to prevent non-ticket holders from doing a merch grab (thus further limiting supply to fans)? As far as my last sentence, the quality and quantity of their output of late informs my opinion there.

I think that you might need a relaxing cup of chamomile tea. I disagree, but given your reaction to that simple statement, I'm just going to hang back and keep my thoughts on this to myself. 

Carry on.  May you be blessed with the music and merch of your dreams.  

on2legs

jeffbr said:

deadendp said:

jeffbr said:

This is an issue PJ created, enables and perpetuates. They can put a stop to it at any time. They've obviously chosen merch as their primary source of income and focus, so it is what it is. Music is now a secondary concern.

I don't agree at all.  

With which part? Neither? You don't think PJ created the scarcity, which created the demand? You don't think PJ could either increase supply or move merch booths inside to prevent non-ticket holders from doing a merch grab (thus further limiting supply to fans)? As far as my last sentence, the quality and quantity of their output of late informs my opinion there.

I don’t Think the band created the scarcity.  They are actually producing more posters than they did in the 90s.  Posters that go for thousands now went unsold on tour back then and were available in their mail order catalog for peanuts.  We created the scarcity when people started catching on to them. 

jpdannabelle

deadendp said:

jeffbr said:

deadendp said:

jeffbr said:

This is an issue PJ created, enables and perpetuates. They can put a stop to it at any time. They've obviously chosen merch as their primary source of income and focus, so it is what it is. Music is now a secondary concern.

I don't agree at all.  

With which part? Neither? You don't think PJ created the scarcity, which created the demand? You don't think PJ could either increase supply or move merch booths inside to prevent non-ticket holders from doing a merch grab (thus further limiting supply to fans)? As far as my last sentence, the quality and quantity of their output of late informs my opinion there.

I think that you might need a relaxing cup of chamomile tea. I disagree, but given your reaction to that simple statement, I'm just going to hang back and keep my thoughts on this to myself. 

Carry on.  May you be blessed with the music and merch of your dreams.  

I love chamomile tea

on2legs

Maybe people are stocking up for the next collectionzz flash sale?

cincybearcat

It’s clear that the Band doesn’t care, do you? 

lastexitlondon

I don't anymore. I feel for the people  and threads of people who just wanted a chance to buy something  from their show. It's sad That s all.

Peasant Tents

lastexitlondon said:

I don't anymore. I feel for the people  and threads of people who just wanted a chance to buy something  from their show. It's sad That s all.

Again - I'm with you. I am sad about not getting a shirt in Prague and I was really dissappointed  but I am was blessed to be able to go there, see a good show and cool city. 
But I am with you - I think you made some really sensible points and from what I saw I agree with you 100%. I think it was a good thread and good of you to raise it.   If some disagree then that's flipping well up to them!! :-) .

lastexitlondon

Thanks.. this forum sometimes has no heart. And it's all about shooting people down and one upmanship . The past few days have been the worst in my life so all this is irrelevant . My hope is that  people see sence. Unlikely.  But look out for each other 
 Not themselves

cincybearcat

lastexitlondon said:

I don't anymore. I feel for the people  and threads of people who just wanted a chance to buy something  from their show. It's sad That s all.

I agree with this. Use to bother me, but now I understand this is the new norm, so I choose to not let it bother me.

went to Rome with my daughter for her first PJ concert. She was hoping for can’t dent me and just breath, got both. Would love a poster and stickers to commemorate for sure....but nothing will beat the memory of her freaking out when they played her songs. 

js261067

If I miss out on a poster at London 2.5,  i'll be on eBay whilst I wait for the band to come on.  tragic but necessary.  

lastexitlondon

cincybearcat said:

lastexitlondon said:

I don't anymore. I feel for the people  and threads of people who just wanted a chance to buy something  from their show. It's sad That s all.

I agree with this. Use to bother me, but now I understand this is the new norm, so I choose to not let it bother me.

went to Rome with my daughter for her first PJ concert. She was hoping for can’t dent me and just breath, got both. Would love a poster and stickers to commemorate for sure....but nothing will beat the memory of her freaking out when they played her songs. 

That is wonderful
 That s what life is all about. Good go hear

SmalltownSteph

cincybearcat said:

lastexitlondon said:

I don't anymore. I feel for the people  and threads of people who just wanted a chance to buy something  from their show. It's sad That s all.

I agree with this. Use to bother me, but now I understand this is the new norm, so I choose to not let it bother me.

went to Rome with my daughter for her first PJ concert. She was hoping for can’t dent me and just breath, got both. Would love a poster and stickers to commemorate for sure....but nothing will beat the memory of her freaking out when they played her songs. 

sent you a pm

helplessdancer

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I have a suggestion for the Seattle shows @Santos L. Halper :

This idea is in 'rough' form and sorry if it has already been suggested. You guys are better at working out the details.

What if there was an outdoor merch booth that set its time for 3 pm? Allow 10C members 2pm entry?

Honestly, at this point, I'd love to spend some money at the merch booths, but I can't see fighting the hordes to get a few posters when I could be spending time having a few ipas on an outdoor patio somewhere.

Without a reasonable option... I'm afraid I'm out of the merch game. I know that makes no difference to you guys with regards to the bottom line (there'll be plenty of people buying that stuff)... but it sure would show you love us!

Either way. Thanks for listening. 

i have read at least once that at least one usa 10c member(s) are supporting their europe tour by buying extra merch to sell after the tour finishes. who's to say this won't happen in seattle/chicago/boston as well. like another post said in another related thread some of the people who do these raffles and sell on ebay actively post here in the pit. i love that, in a twisted kinda way   
you don't have to be out of the merch game...just buy from ebay like i do. i would not have a framed emek telluride poster hanging on my wall today if it wasn't for ebay.  thank you ebay. thank you to the people who wait in line when i won't !!

stones

It seems simple to me.  If items are limited edition, say posters, stickers, pins then limit the number any one individual can buy.  If the items are not limited then have at it buy as many as you like.  It just cannot be that difficult to explain this to local merch sellers.

Whilst I don't think it's possible to prevent someone buying one or two things to flip, applying no limits allows people to corner the market and rip off fellow fans. 

I accept people will miss out and always will if items are limited, and that means some unhappy fans, but it seems to me that since Rome almost everyone is missing out.   In Prague there was hardly anyone with poster tubes or show T-shirts on.

gettingright

One solution to the supply problem is to get closer to an equilibrium price. If the posters were 75 or 100, and show specific shirts 50, the risk/reward would be lower/higher, and flipping would go down. 

cannotstaylong

I can’t  speak to other merch items, but this is what I’ve heard from PJ’s merch folks regarding the number of posters printed for each city:

PJ’s merch team determines the number of prints based on sales from previous concerts in the same city or general area. So, for example, the limited number of posters in Prague was based, in part, on the sales numbers for posters at PJ’s last concert in Prague. Apparently sales weren’t great for the previous Prague poster, so the inventory for 2018 was low. Obviously, the low number of sales for the previous poster probably was due to the fact that the “Ronald McDonald” poster was completed shit. But those sales numbers still set the baseline for poster inventory for the 2018 show. I’m sure they adjust numbers as appropriate from there. 

Add in the exploding number of folks queuing for merch, along with the profit-seeking reality of this business, and that’s how we get where we are now.

I’m not defending PJ’s approach. Just explaining what I’ve heard. 

Kearn5y

gettingright said:

One solution to the supply problem is to get closer to an equilibrium price. If the posters were 75 or 100, and show specific shirts 50, the risk/reward would be lower/higher, and flipping would go down. 

Wouldnt be happy with that at all. Would feel very ripped off.

RP112579

gettingright said:

One solution to the supply problem is to get closer to an equilibrium price. If the posters were 75 or 100, and show specific shirts 50, the risk/reward would be lower/higher, and flipping would go down. 

They actually want to sell the merch. No one is buying a $50 t-shirt.

on2legs

RP112579 said:

gettingright said:

One solution to the supply problem is to get closer to an equilibrium price. If the posters were 75 or 100, and show specific shirts 50, the risk/reward would be lower/higher, and flipping would go down. 

They actually want to sell the merch. No one is buying a $50 t-shirt.

Agreed.  The average fan is not paying that much for a shirt.  $40 is pushing it as it is. 

bootlegger10

Three shows and bought no merch.  Nothing.  I didn’t try either.  Liberating and not worth the long waits. If I can snag a poster online I will, but not for a lot of money.

stones

cannotstaylong said:

I can’t  speak to other merch items, but this is what I’ve heard from PJ’s merch folks regarding the number of posters printed for each city:

PJ’s merch team determines the number of prints based on sales from previous concerts in the same city or general area. So, for example, the limited number of posters in Prague was based, in part, on the sales numbers for posters at PJ’s last concert in Prague. Apparently sales weren’t great for the previous Prague poster, so the inventory for 2018 was low. Obviously, the low number of sales for the previous poster probably was due to the fact that the “Ronald McDonald” poster was completed shit. But those sales numbers still set the baseline for poster inventory for the 2018 show. I’m sure they adjust numbers as appropriate from there. 

Add in the exploding number of folks queuing for merch, along with the profit-seeking reality of this business, and that’s how we get where we are now.

I’m not defending PJ’s approach. Just explaining what I’ve heard. 

Yeah I had heard something similar, and my comments below are not aimed at you but the utter stupidity of that approach.

Next time they play the venue/area, what happens then?  The only record they have is that they sold out of their 200 prints, so what then?  Print 250 or 300?  Those all sell out.  What happens next time after that? There is absolutely no way of recording the real demand.

A far better approach is to use the venue size as a guide, and do some analysis of the 10c ticket sales for that show.  They have this information easily available to them.  To not use it and use very limited historical information to forecast future demand is incompetence.  It would be like me only taking shorts and flip flops when I next visit Scotland, because last time I was there it was hot and sunny.

It's really not hard to realise that if you've sold around 4000 tickets to 10c members and they are travelling from all over the world that 200 posters at an 18000 capacity venue is nowhere near enough.

I now need to try an find out how popular the previous Barcelona poster was, so I can decide whether its worthwhile even trying to score the new one next week, or whether it'll be the same situation as Prague and Krakow.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

helplessdancer said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I have a suggestion for the Seattle shows @Santos L. Halper :

This idea is in 'rough' form and sorry if it has already been suggested. You guys are better at working out the details.

What if there was an outdoor merch booth that set its time for 3 pm? Allow 10C members 2pm entry?

Honestly, at this point, I'd love to spend some money at the merch booths, but I can't see fighting the hordes to get a few posters when I could be spending time having a few ipas on an outdoor patio somewhere.

Without a reasonable option... I'm afraid I'm out of the merch game. I know that makes no difference to you guys with regards to the bottom line (there'll be plenty of people buying that stuff)... but it sure would show you love us!

Either way. Thanks for listening. 

i have read at least once that at least one usa 10c member(s) are supporting their europe tour by buying extra merch to sell after the tour finishes. who's to say this won't happen in seattle/chicago/boston as well. like another post said in another related thread some of the people who do these raffles and sell on ebay actively post here in the pit. i love that, in a twisted kinda way   
you don't have to be out of the merch game...just buy from ebay like i do. i would not have a framed emek telluride poster hanging on my wall today if it wasn't for ebay.  thank you ebay. thank you to the people who wait in line when i won't !!

I agree that ebay does give a person an option for something they really want to have, but missed out on- I've done it for DMB and for Tool and paid dearly for both.

And, if only the 'real collectors' or 'true fans' bought the merchandise... then if you miss out... you're done for.

I still feel that giving 10C members an opportunity to purchase crap ahead of the hordes before the show (even though it would be a bit of a horde itself) would be a good move. If they are planning on an outdoor merch booth... allow a pre-sale to 10C members (an hour or two would be fine I'm sure) and limit the merch to two per member.

MickeyMouse

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

helplessdancer said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I have a suggestion for the Seattle shows @Santos L. Halper :

This idea is in 'rough' form and sorry if it has already been suggested. You guys are better at working out the details.

What if there was an outdoor merch booth that set its time for 3 pm? Allow 10C members 2pm entry?

Honestly, at this point, I'd love to spend some money at the merch booths, but I can't see fighting the hordes to get a few posters when I could be spending time having a few ipas on an outdoor patio somewhere.

Without a reasonable option... I'm afraid I'm out of the merch game. I know that makes no difference to you guys with regards to the bottom line (there'll be plenty of people buying that stuff)... but it sure would show you love us!

Either way. Thanks for listening. 

i have read at least once that at least one usa 10c member(s) are supporting their europe tour by buying extra merch to sell after the tour finishes. who's to say this won't happen in seattle/chicago/boston as well. like another post said in another related thread some of the people who do these raffles and sell on ebay actively post here in the pit. i love that, in a twisted kinda way   
you don't have to be out of the merch game...just buy from ebay like i do. i would not have a framed emek telluride poster hanging on my wall today if it wasn't for ebay.  thank you ebay. thank you to the people who wait in line when i won't !!

I agree that ebay does give a person an option for something they really want to have, but missed out on- I've done it for DMB and for Tool and paid dearly for both.

And, if only the 'real collectors' or 'true fans' bought the merchandise... then if you miss out... you're done for.

I still feel that giving 10C members an opportunity to purchase crap ahead of the hordes before the show (even though it would be a bit of a horde itself) would be a good move. If they are planning on an outdoor merch booth... allow a pre-sale to 10C members (an hour or two would be fine I'm sure) and limit the merch to two per member.

You’re underestimating how long it takes to complete sales. PJ got more 10C tickets for the upcoming US shows than ever before. To suggest that an hour or two would be sufficient to handle thousands and thousands of 10C members for a pre-sale isn’t realistic. 

Being generous, assume the average transaction takes one minute and they have 8 points of sale. That’s 8 people per minute, 480 in an hour. Double or triple that and it still isn’t enough time especially since we all know an average transaction is way more than one minute. 

There’s no simple solution.  That’s why nothing is done.  It sucks to hear, but it’s the truth. If they wanted to make more inventory, they would. It’s not like they’re unaware.