2018 Euro Merch

WildFly

@bradklausen
I wish more artist were set up to sell their A/P like your site.  Like you said there is no way to have a perfect concept to get the prints into the hands of fans that truly appreciate the art and experience they had at the show.  Your only talking about 100 prints with tens of thousands wanting one of the 100.  In my opinion you should only be able to purchase an A/P during an artist sale if you are a member of the 10C.  Still not going to stop all the madness of flippers but at least stop the outsider from profiting off true fans that are members.  I appreciate the fact you interact with all of us and love the fact you are part of our community.  Keep up the awesome art!!!

PJNB

bradklausen said:

drakeheuer14 said:

I think some of the flipping outrage is a little overblown. I think less than 20% hit the market, even with these prices they will go for. And subtract the ones that won’t sell and we are down to even less. 

Battling bots would be nice if possible, but it isn’t that bad. Something limited in nature isn’t meant for everyone to have. This might sound harsh and not fun, but if you really want a poster, get to the line early and you will. I think it is pretty funny when people say I got in line an hour before it opened and are pissed when the miss out. 

I do think they could bump up SE runs, but they obviously did that for Fenway last time and look at the shop now... 

100 people will get the AP and 500+ more won’t get it no matter what anyways. 

yeah... and Pj is an internationally famous band... so instead of lining up outside a brick and mortar store in your town, you are lining up to an online store that the whole world has access to. So you are not just competing for a spot in line with the people in your town interested in the thing you like, you are competing with everyone on the planet that likes the same thing you like. 

I like to go snowboarding, and like most people, prefer to do that when it is not crowded... when I go on days when it is crowded I get all angry and mad at all these other people being there... and my lady often reminds me, you mean all these people who are here because they too love the same thing you love...?  Right!  how dare these other people also enjoy the thing I too enjoy!!!  how dare they try and do the exact same thing I am doing on the same day!! 

as for battling bots... can you? is there software to determine if a customer using your site figured out some algorithm or some code to help them purchase things online? And if they can do that, is that wrong? Should people who are better at using computers and the internet be penalized because they have more knowledge then others? For having an interest and knowledge in how the internet works and how websites function and are code writers, I dont feel like those people should have to be punished for being better at something then someone else... does it give them an advantage, of course, but that is the benefit of having knowledge and skills, it gives you and advantage over those who do not have the same knowledge or skill..... should someone be penalized for just having a faster computer? for having a better internet connection then someone living in some rural setting where their internet speed is slower? If you have an old out of date computer like I do, and it takes longer then new computers for your webpages to refresh and connect to, should those people be allowed a head start because they are not as equipped as someone else with a better machine? 



oh my word, like always, when you see my posting... guaranteed I am procrastinating and should be drawing... 

I do not think they should be penalized for being better at knowing how websites work and shortcuts in that regard if that is the method of sale that you as the artist choose. No sale method is perfect but the system in place for most sites now only benefits these people and leaves it impossible for others to have a shot. Why limit it to such a small group of people instead of giving the opportunity to the masses? The only reason I would imagine is the time factor of setting something else up as Mumford did for his Brazil print. People can still game that system but it still gives those that are not educated on websites/software manipulation a chance that they would otherwise not have. I also wish that they would give you the opportunity to bump up your AP stocks. I think it is proven that the majority of AP's are selling out and it would in no way take away from the SE imo. Win for you and win for us real fans that want a print as our odds just got better. Thanks for your insight and get back to work!

JamesN

Why not timed editions??
If you have an off day, no excess...
If you nail it, reap the rewards...
Eads does timed, & there is still a robust
secondary market for eBay flippers
- As well as (Especially!) PJ Vault vinyls - Good luck trying to find ANY Vault for cost!! HAHA
Renegotiate with the band(s) - Timed APs, 
let the fans decide the run...Some people will
undoubtedly miss out as per normal, but those
astute enthusiasts won't have to pay outrageous
prices for something they want - & so much more
$$$ would end up with the well-deserving artist.

sheenTN

bradklausen said:

drakeheuer14 said:

I think some of the flipping outrage is a little overblown. I think less than 20% hit the market, even with these prices they will go for. And subtract the ones that won’t sell and we are down to even less. 

Battling bots would be nice if possible, but it isn’t that bad. Something limited in nature isn’t meant for everyone to have. This might sound harsh and not fun, but if you really want a poster, get to the line early and you will. I think it is pretty funny when people say I got in line an hour before it opened and are pissed when the miss out. 

I do think they could bump up SE runs, but they obviously did that for Fenway last time and look at the shop now... 

100 people will get the AP and 500+ more won’t get it no matter what anyways. 

yeah... and Pj is an internationally famous band... so instead of lining up outside a brick and mortar store in your town, you are lining up to an online store that the whole world has access to. So you are not just competing for a spot in line with the people in your town interested in the thing you like, you are competing with everyone on the planet that likes the same thing you like. 

I like to go snowboarding, and like most people, prefer to do that when it is not crowded... when I go on days when it is crowded I get all angry and mad at all these other people being there... and my lady often reminds me, you mean all these people who are here because they too love the same thing you love...?  Right!  how dare these other people also enjoy the thing I too enjoy!!!  how dare they try and do the exact same thing I am doing on the same day!! 

as for battling bots... can you? is there software to determine if a customer using your site figured out some algorithm or some code to help them purchase things online? And if they can do that, is that wrong? Should people who are better at using computers and the internet be penalized because they have more knowledge then others? For having an interest and knowledge in how the internet works and how websites function and are code writers, I dont feel like those people should have to be punished for being better at something then someone else... does it give them an advantage, of course, but that is the benefit of having knowledge and skills, it gives you and advantage over those who do not have the same knowledge or skill..... should someone be penalized for just having a faster computer? for having a better internet connection then someone living in some rural setting where their internet speed is slower? If you have an old out of date computer like I do, and it takes longer then new computers for your webpages to refresh and connect to, should those people be allowed a head start because they are not as equipped as someone else with a better machine? 



oh my word, like always, when you see my posting... guaranteed I am procrastinating and should be drawing... 

Thanks for your insight on the artist side of this and after reading some of these posts would it best maximize your costs as well as appease the fans if you had an AP preorder in a limited time frame?  Maybe have the preorder option open for 3-5 days which can keep the limited nature of APs yet still avoid the craziness of the online sales crush at one particular time.  For the artists you could give yourself a cap on how many you would be willing to make BUT you will not have any leftover inventory plus you will maximize your profits because in today’s poster/art market you will surely sell many more than the short runs that are currently selling out immediately.  Love your work and have many of your prints on my wall today so I would love to see you get a bigger chunk of this flippers market on YOUR art that you deserve!

JBob87

Lotteries (even w/a limited entry window of 10-15 min) would at least negate the bots impact

bradklausen

slug420 said:

I think its just a question (for you BK) of what the purpose of the AP sale is for.  If its to make money (no shame in that at all) then you should auction them or waffle them or something so you get make the profits not the flippers.

If its to get the art in the hands of the fans at a reasonable price, then a lottery system (maybe with a validated CC with billing/shipping address tied to each lottery entry) should eliminate most bots, or at the very least level the playing field a little.

If its to get the art in the hands of the most clever purchasers (again, this might be a valid purpose, no shame in it necessarily) then the current model where the more knowledgeable people who take the time to write bots, get the prints, and make the flipping profits.

One very fair point you made about it not being wrong for people to be rewarded because they are more knowledgeable about something and take the time to learn about it...bots aside, for how many years have some people been in the "knowledgeable" population of poster collectors who even knew about APs and Artist releases?  For quite a while I just knew they sold them at shows and that was it...didn't know there was such a thing as an AP.  I also didn't know until recently that Santos would randomly drop posters - sometimes really desirable ones -  in the 10c store with some sort of predictability.  Only those people in the know were able to score APs or these surplus prints through 10c.  Those same people now complain because the bots have come in and made it hard for them to get that thing...but they were not worried about all the fans that were essentially shut out from APs or 10c drops due to lack of knowledge before the bots.....so maybe you're onto something.

Another debate that has raged for forever is the idea that any event tickets should ONLY be sold for face value, whereas those same people expecting to buy tickets for face felt free to sell posters for 10xFace.  My theory has always been that the reason for this, is the majority of the hardcore fans feel they have more control over getting a poster than they do the tickets.  Where they are not in control, subject to the lottery, they dont want to be stuck paying marked up ticket prices, but when they know about the AP drops, the variants, and they know legions of hardcore fans who camp out in lines for 24 hours to get a poster...they feel comfortable that they can get one for face...so screw everyone else.

Now suddenly the rise of the bots, the same legion of hardcore fans is having trouble getting their face value posters through the normal means, and suddenly that's an issue.  Realistically the difficult time hardcore fans/collectors are now having getting APs because of bots is no worse than the impossible time a casual fan has had for a decade going into a venue around the time the band is going to go on and trying to find an SE at a merch stand.  The problem is not new, its only a question of who is impacted.

the purpose number one of the AP sale is to get paid for the work done. The merch company gives you x amount as a payment, you have to sell those to get paid for your time and put food on the table. 

but after that you want the posters to go to people who want them. Who like the art and went to the show. That is one of the fun parts of making these things is knowing you are making something that someone will frame and look at for months and months or years and years and it will be a visual reminder of the time they had at the show. I recently saw the Queens play at the Key Arena, and have seen them many times before, but that night for some reason was one of the most fun times I have had seeing live music... and since that show in January whenever I think about it, it makes me happy, it generates that feeling again. It is a cool component to making posters that you are creating something that will do that for someone, trigger that memory, trigger those feelings and maybe for a moment take them back to that night.

I only bring up the advantage that someone who can create a bot has and should not be penalized for it, because it is really no different then back in the day when you had to go wait in line for hours out front of Tower Records or some record shop to buy tickets through ticketmaster for big concerts like PJ or whoever... some people camped out for days ahead of time... but if tickets go on sale wednesday at 10 AM at the local Tower Records and someone has a car and I only have a bike or a bus pass, the person with the car has an advantage and will get a better spot in line then I do,... should the person who has a car be penalized or handicapped because they have and advantage I do not have? Is it fair that they have a technology I do not have, the technology of the car vs the technology of a bicycle?  Apply that same logic to the internet, and someone with a faster computer, faster internet connection, more technical knowledge, and they will get to the poster or tickets before you. That is just what I think of when the conversation of the fairness of bots is brought up... I do not wanna compete with them either for anything online, but people use them and using bots is not an unethical or immoral or illegal thing, so if I cannot compete with people who have figured things out I have not figured out, I am unfortunately not going to fare as well as them. 

on2legs

sheenTN said:

bradklausen said:

drakeheuer14 said:

I think some of the flipping outrage is a little overblown. I think less than 20% hit the market, even with these prices they will go for. And subtract the ones that won’t sell and we are down to even less. 

Battling bots would be nice if possible, but it isn’t that bad. Something limited in nature isn’t meant for everyone to have. This might sound harsh and not fun, but if you really want a poster, get to the line early and you will. I think it is pretty funny when people say I got in line an hour before it opened and are pissed when the miss out. 

I do think they could bump up SE runs, but they obviously did that for Fenway last time and look at the shop now... 

100 people will get the AP and 500+ more won’t get it no matter what anyways. 

yeah... and Pj is an internationally famous band... so instead of lining up outside a brick and mortar store in your town, you are lining up to an online store that the whole world has access to. So you are not just competing for a spot in line with the people in your town interested in the thing you like, you are competing with everyone on the planet that likes the same thing you like. 

I like to go snowboarding, and like most people, prefer to do that when it is not crowded... when I go on days when it is crowded I get all angry and mad at all these other people being there... and my lady often reminds me, you mean all these people who are here because they too love the same thing you love...?  Right!  how dare these other people also enjoy the thing I too enjoy!!!  how dare they try and do the exact same thing I am doing on the same day!! 

as for battling bots... can you? is there software to determine if a customer using your site figured out some algorithm or some code to help them purchase things online? And if they can do that, is that wrong? Should people who are better at using computers and the internet be penalized because they have more knowledge then others? For having an interest and knowledge in how the internet works and how websites function and are code writers, I dont feel like those people should have to be punished for being better at something then someone else... does it give them an advantage, of course, but that is the benefit of having knowledge and skills, it gives you and advantage over those who do not have the same knowledge or skill..... should someone be penalized for just having a faster computer? for having a better internet connection then someone living in some rural setting where their internet speed is slower? If you have an old out of date computer like I do, and it takes longer then new computers for your webpages to refresh and connect to, should those people be allowed a head start because they are not as equipped as someone else with a better machine? 



oh my word, like always, when you see my posting... guaranteed I am procrastinating and should be drawing... 

Thanks for your insight on the artist side of this and after reading some of these posts would it best maximize your costs as well as appease the fans if you had an AP preorder in a limited time frame?  Maybe have the preorder option open for 3-5 days which can keep the limited nature of APs yet still avoid the craziness of the online sales crush at one particular time.  For the artists you could give yourself a cap on how many you would be willing to make BUT you will not have any leftover inventory plus you will maximize your profits because in today’s poster/art market you will surely sell many more than the short runs that are currently selling out immediately.  Love your work and have many of your prints on my wall today so I would love to see you get a bigger chunk of this flippers market on YOUR art that you deserve!

I think he said that the number of AP prints he is allowed to sell is determined by the band.   Not the artist. 

sheenTN

on2legs said:

sheenTN said:

bradklausen said:

drakeheuer14 said:

I think some of the flipping outrage is a little overblown. I think less than 20% hit the market, even with these prices they will go for. And subtract the ones that won’t sell and we are down to even less. 

Battling bots would be nice if possible, but it isn’t that bad. Something limited in nature isn’t meant for everyone to have. This might sound harsh and not fun, but if you really want a poster, get to the line early and you will. I think it is pretty funny when people say I got in line an hour before it opened and are pissed when the miss out. 

I do think they could bump up SE runs, but they obviously did that for Fenway last time and look at the shop now... 

100 people will get the AP and 500+ more won’t get it no matter what anyways. 

yeah... and Pj is an internationally famous band... so instead of lining up outside a brick and mortar store in your town, you are lining up to an online store that the whole world has access to. So you are not just competing for a spot in line with the people in your town interested in the thing you like, you are competing with everyone on the planet that likes the same thing you like. 

I like to go snowboarding, and like most people, prefer to do that when it is not crowded... when I go on days when it is crowded I get all angry and mad at all these other people being there... and my lady often reminds me, you mean all these people who are here because they too love the same thing you love...?  Right!  how dare these other people also enjoy the thing I too enjoy!!!  how dare they try and do the exact same thing I am doing on the same day!! 

as for battling bots... can you? is there software to determine if a customer using your site figured out some algorithm or some code to help them purchase things online? And if they can do that, is that wrong? Should people who are better at using computers and the internet be penalized because they have more knowledge then others? For having an interest and knowledge in how the internet works and how websites function and are code writers, I dont feel like those people should have to be punished for being better at something then someone else... does it give them an advantage, of course, but that is the benefit of having knowledge and skills, it gives you and advantage over those who do not have the same knowledge or skill..... should someone be penalized for just having a faster computer? for having a better internet connection then someone living in some rural setting where their internet speed is slower? If you have an old out of date computer like I do, and it takes longer then new computers for your webpages to refresh and connect to, should those people be allowed a head start because they are not as equipped as someone else with a better machine? 



oh my word, like always, when you see my posting... guaranteed I am procrastinating and should be drawing... 

Thanks for your insight on the artist side of this and after reading some of these posts would it best maximize your costs as well as appease the fans if you had an AP preorder in a limited time frame?  Maybe have the preorder option open for 3-5 days which can keep the limited nature of APs yet still avoid the craziness of the online sales crush at one particular time.  For the artists you could give yourself a cap on how many you would be willing to make BUT you will not have any leftover inventory plus you will maximize your profits because in today’s poster/art market you will surely sell many more than the short runs that are currently selling out immediately.  Love your work and have many of your prints on my wall today so I would love to see you get a bigger chunk of this flippers market on YOUR art that you deserve!

I think he said that the number of AP prints he is allowed to sell is determined by the band.   Not the artist. 

Ahhhhhhh just reread and saw that and it makes sense.  Never mind hahaha

bradklausen

JamesN said:

Why not timed editions??
If you have an off day, no excess...
If you nail it, reap the rewards...
Eads does timed, & there is still a robust
secondary market for eBay flippers
- As well as (Especially!) PJ Vault vinyls - Good luck trying to find ANY Vault for cost!! HAHA
Renegotiate with the band(s) - Timed APs, 
let the fans decide the run...Some people will
undoubtedly miss out as per normal, but those
astute enthusiasts won't have to pay outrageous
prices for something they want - & so much more
$$$ would end up with the well-deserving artist.

timed editions for art prints works great... but for an event poster, they dont work
the posters are printed months in advance in order to get shipped to the show on time, so you need a determined amount. 

the whole idea of an event poster is something marking a date in time, an event, and you get it at the event. 

If after the event people really love a poster and there is demand, you could do a timed edition after the show, but that would mean you would need to do another print run, so it would be a second edition... which many people would not care about, I am merely pointing out you would have to do another print run, and the idea again of the event poster is that it was something you had to be at to get, they only printed them for that day, time and place and they only made a limited amount.  So if you are printing second runs of show posters the argument could be made why not reprint old show posters that are fan favorite holy grails... and again, you could do that, and many folks would be stoked, but then it again is no longer what it was originally, which was a limited work of art created to mark this one event, this one day in time. 

jeffer96

bradklausen said:

drakeheuer14 said:

I think some of the flipping outrage is a little overblown. I think less than 20% hit the market, even with these prices they will go for. And subtract the ones that won’t sell and we are down to even less. 

Battling bots would be nice if possible, but it isn’t that bad. Something limited in nature isn’t meant for everyone to have. This might sound harsh and not fun, but if you really want a poster, get to the line early and you will. I think it is pretty funny when people say I got in line an hour before it opened and are pissed when the miss out. 

I do think they could bump up SE runs, but they obviously did that for Fenway last time and look at the shop now... 

100 people will get the AP and 500+ more won’t get it no matter what anyways. 

yeah... and Pj is an internationally famous band... so instead of lining up outside a brick and mortar store in your town, you are lining up to an online store that the whole world has access to. So you are not just competing for a spot in line with the people in your town interested in the thing you like, you are competing with everyone on the planet that likes the same thing you like. 

I like to go snowboarding, and like most people, prefer to do that when it is not crowded... when I go on days when it is crowded I get all angry and mad at all these other people being there... and my lady often reminds me, you mean all these people who are here because they too love the same thing you love...?  Right!  how dare these other people also enjoy the thing I too enjoy!!!  how dare they try and do the exact same thing I am doing on the same day!! 

as for battling bots... can you? is there software to determine if a customer using your site figured out some algorithm or some code to help them purchase things online? And if they can do that, is that wrong? Should people who are better at using computers and the internet be penalized because they have more knowledge then others? For having an interest and knowledge in how the internet works and how websites function and are code writers, I dont feel like those people should have to be punished for being better at something then someone else... does it give them an advantage, of course, but that is the benefit of having knowledge and skills, it gives you and advantage over those who do not have the same knowledge or skill..... should someone be penalized for just having a faster computer? for having a better internet connection then someone living in some rural setting where their internet speed is slower? If you have an old out of date computer like I do, and it takes longer then new computers for your webpages to refresh and connect to, should those people be allowed a head start because they are not as equipped as someone else with a better machine? 



oh my word, like always, when you see my posting... guaranteed I am procrastinating and should be drawing... 

Hey Brad - would a captcha work on your site?  I know what they are, but not the programming side of them.  A captcha is that “I am not a robot” checkbox you have to click after typing in a username and password on some sites.  Google is one that comes to mind.  Captcha stands for Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart per Wikipedia.  

hihobibo

If the artist preference is to get the APs into the hands of fans who went to the show, why not request images of tickets or a ticket code be sent with payment? 

Or maybe start a list of the print numbers and the address that print was sent to. Then after an eBay sale, message the buyer and see if they can provide the number to you so you can flag the original sale as a flipper. 

I also have been seeing screen shots of artists replying to direct email and messages from people looking for drop information. Not sure how normal that is, but that seems to me like that would be the move of flippers fishing for insider information. 

I know these would be time consuming options, but could be a way to curb some of it. 

my_wave

,

EdVedder_1

I wonder if you are familiar with an artist like Brad. Would it be beneficial to do a blind pre buy of an ap if you knew he was doing a pj print for an upcoming show. Ive never been dissapointed by his posters. Id do it.

drakeheuer14

Hell yes BK

telc

Very cool.

arnhem1976

My likey!!

EM194007

Cool looking print from Mr Klausen.

lastexitlondon

That s quality. BK done good

deftones

Beautiful

lastexitlondon

I like brads  work/style I wish he did London shows