Roseanne Barr

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Research shows that swearing is good for mental stability, and that smarter people tend to swear more. :plus_one:

As a woman, FTR, I have no problem with the c-word - the only time I do is if it's used maliciously against someone who doesn't deserve it. However, I'm probably in the minority of North American who feel this way. But I don't know why so many people are triggered by this word. Why is it considered to be worse than any other profanity? That's just dumb.

it is, but I still find myself cringing at it. not sure why. it's just so.....verbally violent maybe? like it potrays an intense amount of anger. 

Not when I say it, and not when anyone I know says. And not when everyone outside of North America says it. Damn, you can barely go 10 minutes in the UK without hearing it. I understand what you're saying, but I'm sure you're also aware that that perception is completely coloured by simple cultural bias.

well of course. saying the word faggot here has a much differnet connotation than it does in the UK as well, but that doesn't take away from its meaning in our cultural context. 

I wouldn't say that's comparable, because it's not even a swear word in the UK.
The c-word has the same meaning in both places.

not necessarily. in the UK, it can mean women's genetalia, a random person ("mate"), or an idiot. most people use it in the context of the latter two. 

the meaning is quite a bit stonger here when used in a derogatory way. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Research shows that swearing is good for mental stability, and that smarter people tend to swear more. :plus_one:

As a woman, FTR, I have no problem with the c-word - the only time I do is if it's used maliciously against someone who doesn't deserve it. However, I'm probably in the minority of North American who feel this way. But I don't know why so many people are triggered by this word. Why is it considered to be worse than any other profanity? That's just dumb.

it is, but I still find myself cringing at it. not sure why. it's just so.....verbally violent maybe? like it potrays an intense amount of anger. 

Not when I say it, and not when anyone I know says. And not when everyone outside of North America says it. Damn, you can barely go 10 minutes in the UK without hearing it. I understand what you're saying, but I'm sure you're also aware that that perception is completely coloured by simple cultural bias.

well of course. saying the word faggot here has a much differnet connotation than it does in the UK as well, but that doesn't take away from its meaning in our cultural context. 

I wouldn't say that's comparable, because it's not even a swear word in the UK.
The c-word has the same meaning in both places.

not necessarily. in the UK, it can mean women's genetalia, a random person ("mate"), or an idiot. most people use it in the context of the latter two. 

the meaning is quite a bit stonger here when used in a derogatory way. 

It also means those things here. The only difference is that people get offended by it here more. The meaning isn't stronger, the reaction is. IMO.

HughFreakingDillon

I've never ever once heard people here use it casually with those meanings. I rarely hear it at all. must be a vancouver thing.

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

I've never ever once heard people here use it casually with those meanings. I rarely hear it at all. must be a vancouver thing.

Maybe! lol. I definitely know plenty of people here who use it pretty casually (myself included, but I know my audience, so as not to offend all the others who are sensitive to it). I can think of at least 3 co-workers who use it in front of me (because they know they can), let alone friends outside of the workplace, lol. No, not as "mate", you're right, but we know that's one of the word's meanings even if people don't use it, right? In any case, look, that word is used in the same context as "bitch" is here, right? The only thing that makes people think the c-word is worse than the b-word is ... nothing but a bias against the word. God knows both words can be used in equally vicious ways, but they can also both be used in equally non-vicious ways.

Merkin Baller

mcgruff10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Weird how no one on the right seemed too bothered when Ted Nugent called Hillary a toxic c*** a few years back.
The double standards are staggering.

http://www.westword.com/news/ted-nugent-called-hillary-clinton-a-toxic-c-nt-eighteen-years-ago-5872607

He doesn't have a tv show.  Plus you are talking about a quote from 1994, I merely linked the article since Roseanne got fired the same week for using racist language.

He doesn't have a radio show?

Halifax2TheMax

Merkin Baller said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

When will the White House call for the Congress and Senate to act on the garbage spewing racist in the oval office. They're all a bunch of hypocritical idiots. It's so sickening and disgusting that Sanders can even keep a straight face while the shit pours out of her mouth.

she'll get hers. or maybe she's already a miserable piss bucket and gets hers on a daily having to look herself in the mirror. she's a disgusting vile pig of a human. 

If for any reason I'm being asked tough questions by the media....she may just be my #1 pick to defend me though.

a good portion of her answers are nothing but "the president has been very clear on his position on that" and "we're not going to get into the specifics of that at this time". all she's good it is not looking flustered and sweaty like Spicer did. he was horrible at his job. she's better than he was, which isn't great. 

She seems mean....and if I was being attacked I'd want her meanness on my side

I find her repulsive and cowardly. 

She's a bully, like her boss. (as well as repulsive & cowardly)

RE: Samantha Bee... F Me in the Brain hit the nail on the head, this is apples & oranges compared to Roseanne. Judging someone based on their actions (or lack thereof) is pretty different than judging someone based on their race. As reprehensible as the c word is, it still isn't racist.

If you need that explained to you..... 

Also, Hugh, you hit on another great point - the Executive Branch shouldn't be sticking their noses into private businesses for political purposes... this goes for the NFL, the Washington Post, or Time Warner. There are actual laws against this, but for some reason this administration is getting a pass.

The NFL has a certain exemption in a law passed by Congress. Just saying.
 

Not any more they don't.

http://time.com/3839164/nfl-tax-exempt-status/

I was thinking more about the anti-trust exemption and how it affects labor relations. Its complicated but there was somehting that happened between the players and owners and when I heard the reporting of the issue and the why, I thought, hmmmm, that's not your typical employer being held accountable. It may also help explain why Kapernick has been successfully blacklisted. But I'm not sure as my memory is fuzzy and its too much for me to research right now. We have Rosanne to occupy our time. If I think of the thng that I was thinking of originally and think to post it, I will.

http://www.pepperlaw.com/publications/why-the-nfl-says-theres-no-crying-antitrust-in-football-2011-05-16/

Basically, the NFL is not bound by (insert labor law here, "Fair Employment Act?"). I dunno.

mace1229

F Me In The Brain said:

What lunacy.  Dude, she called a black person an ape.  
Where is the double standard here?

Only a racist fails to see that this is an unacceptable racist thing.

Criticizing the president is something totally unrelated to her getting her due as a racist piece of donkey shit.

Jumped into this conversation late.

first, I think what Rosanne said was terrible and I’m glad she got fired for it.

But I also agree there is a double standard in that when a conservative says something like that the fallout is 10 times worse. I’ve mentioned before that it is fairly common to see people group conservatives into redneck, toothless sister-loving idiots.
Remember after the Vegas shooter than CBS exec who said she was glad that country music goers were shot, because country music is associated with Republicans? Yes, she got fired, but that was the end of it and I think I heard about it once. No doubt by if someone on Fox said something equivalent they would have lost sponsors on all their shows, people would be demanding boycotts, that entire network would have been destroyed. But with CBS it was forgotten in a day and moved on. No real backlash, no loss of sponsors, they didn’t shut down for a day to take some sensitivity training. 
There is a double standard with the public reaction to these events.

PJ_Soul

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

What lunacy.  Dude, she called a black person an ape.  
Where is the double standard here?

Only a racist fails to see that this is an unacceptable racist thing.

Criticizing the president is something totally unrelated to her getting her due as a racist piece of donkey shit.

Jumped into this conversation late.

first, I think what Rosanne said was terrible and I’m glad she got fired for it.

But I also agree there is a double standard in that when a conservative says something like that the fallout is 10 times worse. I’ve mentioned before that it is fairly common to see people group conservatives into redneck, toothless sister-loving idiots.
Remember after the Vegas shooter than CBS exec who said she was glad that country music goers were shot, because country music is associated with Republicans? Yes, she got fired, but that was the end of it and I think I heard about it once. No doubt by if someone on Fox said something equivalent they would have lost sponsors on all their shows, people would be demanding boycotts, that entire network would have been destroyed. But with CBS it was forgotten in a day and moved on. No real backlash, no loss of sponsors, they didn’t shut down for a day to take some sensitivity training. 

I know what you're saying, but a racist comment against a minority is not the same as making a nasty comment about Republicans. The comment that woman made was insane, but it's still not the same. And it still got the idiot fired. And if someone on Fox said something equivalent, the only reason Fox would lose sponsors and see boycotts (but by who? The Fox audience would love it, lol) is because fucking Fox wouldn't fire the person! In the case of CBS, she was immediately fired, issue over. Why would sponsors bail if the problem was already handled? They wouldn't.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

What lunacy.  Dude, she called a black person an ape.  
Where is the double standard here?

Only a racist fails to see that this is an unacceptable racist thing.

Criticizing the president is something totally unrelated to her getting her due as a racist piece of donkey shit.

Jumped into this conversation late.

first, I think what Rosanne said was terrible and I’m glad she got fired for it.

But I also agree there is a double standard in that when a conservative says something like that the fallout is 10 times worse. I’ve mentioned before that it is fairly common to see people group conservatives into redneck, toothless sister-loving idiots.
Remember after the Vegas shooter than CBS exec who said she was glad that country music goers were shot, because country music is associated with Republicans? Yes, she got fired, but that was the end of it and I think I heard about it once. No doubt by if someone on Fox said something equivalent they would have lost sponsors on all their shows, people would be demanding boycotts, that entire network would have been destroyed. But with CBS it was forgotten in a day and moved on. No real backlash, no loss of sponsors, they didn’t shut down for a day to take some sensitivity training. 
There is a double standard with the public reaction to these events.

Its still a false equivalency. A one year legal affairs person within a network is not the same as a "star" who appears on television before millions of viewers for whatever the number of weeks the show runs. Had you ever heard of this CBS employee prior to her disgusting post/tweet?

CBS Corp. fired a vice president in business affairs Monday for comments she made on social media regarding the mass shooting at a country music festival in Las Vegas.

Hayley Geftman-Gold, wrote on her Facebook page that she was not sympathetic to victims of the shooting because, she claimed, most country music fans are Republican.

Geftman-Gold also wrote: “If they wouldn’t do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs will ever do the right thing. I’m actually not even sympathetic bc country music fans often are Republican gun toters.”

The comments were deleted but not before they were picked up on a number of right-wing blogs and websites. A petition was posted online that called for her firing.

A CBS spokesperson confirmed that Geftman-Gold was dismissed because of her comments.

“This individual, who was with us for approximately one year, violated the standards of our company and is no longer an employee of CBS. Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS. Our hearts go out to the victims in Las Vegas and their families,” the company said in a statement.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-cbs-fires-executive-for-deeply-1506969657-htmlstory.html

That's how you deal with stupidity, free speech be damned.

my2hands

Well it worked, people are talking about Samantha Bee for some fucking reason...

mcgruff10

my2hands said:

Well it worked, people are talking about Samantha Bee for some fucking reason...

So do we all agree that if she says something like this again she should be fired?

oftenreading

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

Well it worked, people are talking about Samantha Bee for some fucking reason...

So do we all agree that if she says something like this again she should be fired?

You mean, if she says something blatantly racist? Sure.

But she didn’t, which is why the “apples and oranges” comments. 

PJ_Soul

I think it's insane to suggest regular name calling (however profane) is even similar to racist comments. Just nuts. But this is the year (or 4) of false equivalencies, so there you have it.

benjs

mcgruff10 said:

my2hands said:

Well it worked, people are talking about Samantha Bee for some fucking reason...

So do we all agree that if she says something like this again she should be fired?

Freedom of speech laws exist so that there there can be no fear of legal persecution to sharing of public opinions, and are foundational to the federal republic of the USA. On the other hand, socially people have always spoken through actions about what words should be tolerable, and they've always set those standards rather arbitrarily, and historically not always correctly. This is why women who wanted to work while their female peers chose the then-expected housewife career were ostracized by women. This is why white people historically congregated with white people predominantly while interracial marriages were abhorrent to some. This is why the Church acted within fair free speech policy by condemning Galileo and ridiculing his name when he shared his opinions (though later betrayed those ideals and showed the need for freedom of speech laws upon his legal persecution).

Freedom of speech laws make it all the more critical for society to socially persecute when necessary in all cases (due to the fact that freedom of speech laws effectively forbid legal persecution for any sharing of opinion), but to expect absolute behaviours from a contextual judgment (i.e. a true democracy) isn't realistic in my opinion. The social court will always evaluate what is worthy of social persecution in a case-by-case, contextualized manner.

mickeyrat

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/opinion/roseanne-political-correctness.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Roseanne Barr’s Right to Offend and Our Right to Say No
Lindy West

By Lindy West

Contributing Opinion Writer

    May 30, 2018

Image
Roseanne Barr in March.CreditVera Anderson/WireImage, via Getty Images

On Tuesday, ABC canceled its “Roseanne” revival, the network’s first No. 1 show in 24 years, after its star Roseanne Barr referred to Valerie Jarrett, a former senior adviser to President Barack Obama, as the offspring of the “Muslim Brotherhood & Planet of the Apes.”

The decision prompted surprise, relief and schadenfreude from many on the left, who already regarded the sitcom — in which Barr’s character, like Barr herself, is a supporter of President Trump and his radical racist authoritarian ideology — as an alarming bellwether of Trumpism’s slide into normalcy.

Meanwhile, the right-wing backlash is unfolding as scripted: the usual cries of censorship, the usual recriminations about liberal celebrities who once said something mean, the usual lamentations about politically correct overreach, the usual free-market fetishists suddenly oppressed by the marketplace of ideas.

Barr attributed her gleeful antebellum-vintage racism to the sleep aid Ambien and played down her comment as a joke (yes, we know, a racist one). Trump — who himself referred to some immigrants as “animals” this month — predictably joined in, whining that Disney’s chief executive, Bob Iger, “never called President Donald J. Trump to apologize for the HORRIBLE statements made and said about me on ABC.”

Right-wing Twitter (including Barr’s own feed) is now thick with similar sentiments: Here is Joy Behar saying something cutting about Trump. Here is Jimmy Kimmel. Here is Michelle Wolf. Why didn’t the outrage mob come for them? One important difference is that it is possible, or at least up for debate, for Trump’s decorum, health care plan, tax bill or hair to deserve mockery. It is not possible, and well beyond the realm of debate, for black people to deserve five centuries of racialized brutality and dehumanization.

Chattel slavery in America ended 153 years ago. I am only 36 years old, and when my father was born, there were black Americans alive who remembered being the property of white people. Slavery is not our distant past; it is yesterday. Descendants of slaves (again, only a few generations removed) have never been compensated for the hundreds of years of unpaid forced labor upon which white Americans built generational wealth and economic stability. The culturally and legislatively enforced poverty, subjugation and mass incarceration of black people continue to this day, while white supremacist violence saturates our news media, whether it’s identified as such or not.

The Parkland, Fla., high school gunman Nikolas Cruz “talked about killing Mexicans, keeping black people in chains and cutting their necks,” according to CNN. The gunman at Santa Fe High School in Texas, Dimitrios Pagourtzis, posted photos of himself in Nazi regalia. Alek Minassian, who drove his van into a crowded sidewalk in Toronto, killing 10, was a member of the “incel” (or “involuntarily celibate”) community, an online misogynist hate group with roots in white supremacist male entitlement.

Elliot Rodger, an incel hero who killed six people in a 2014 rampage, wrote repeatedly about his rage at the sight of white women socializing with black men. In Charlottesville, Va., last year, Heather Heyer was killed by the self-professed neo-Nazi James Alex Fields Jr., one of Trump’s “very fine people.” The stories of black people murdered by the police could fill a library.

Racism is America’s defining sickness, and comparing black and brown people to animals is one of its most pervasive pathogens — a rationalization that, even in 2018, kills people every day. Flint still doesn’t have clean water.

“Roseanne” was not canceled because it is mean or “HORRIBLE” to compare a black person to an ape (though it is both of those things). It was canceled because it carries the weight of both historic horrors and current atrocities — because comparing a black person to an ape nods to a historically rooted yet increasingly emboldened far-right hate movement whose chosen figurehead, Donald Trump, is the president of the United States. Because it is our collective responsibility to not let that movement win, to fight to be a better country, and right now cultural power is all we have.

Perhaps more significantly, “Roseanne” was canceled because it is bad for business (for now) when your prime-time family sitcom’s star sounds like David Duke — just as it will eventually become bad for the N.F.L.’s business to punish black players for protesting police brutality.

Disclosure: I had my own bizarre and unpleasant run-in with Barr in the summer of 2013. I’d appeared on a TV show to talk about political correctness (specifically rape jokes) in comedy, and Barr became convinced that I was the P.C. police. She tweeted a video I’d made about the online harassment that I was receiving (sample: “This big bitch is bitter that no one wants to rape her”) and described me as a “female advocating censorship of comedy.”

I tried to explain, it didn’t work, and things devolved from there in the way they typically do on Twitter. Eventually, in disbelief, I had to block Roseanne Barr. I loved Roseanne Barr. This was not how I’d imagined our first encounter. And she never forgot. Every once in a while, even five years later, she occasionally tweets, “Lindy West is a fat bitch.”

The term “political correctness” (much like the slimy “pro-life”) is a right-wing neologism, a tactical bending of reality, an attempt to colonize the playing field, a bluff to lure dupes into dignifying propaganda. True to form, the credulous left adopted it wholesale in the early ’90s, electively embroiling us in three decades of bad-faith “debate” over whether discouraging white people from using racial slurs constitutes government censorship. Of course it doesn’t. Debate over. Treating anti-P.C. arguments as anything but a shell game props up the lie that it is somehow unfair to identify and point out racism, let alone fight to eradicate it. Pointing out and fighting to eradicate racism is how we build the racism-free world that all but racists profess to want.

The anti-P.C. set deliberately frames political correctness as a sovereign entity, separate from real human beings — like an advisory board or a nutritional label or a silly after-school club that one can heed or ignore with no moral implications — as though if we simply reject political correctness we can still have “Roseanne.” But the reality is that there’s no such thing as political correctness — it’s a rhetorical device to depersonalize oppression.

What we have here, really, is a person, Roseanne Barr, who called a black person an animal, a comparison that directly refers to and reinforces our country’s genocidal past — a past that still hinders black life in devastating ways, and that good people have been fighting to not just leave behind but repair for generations. Understandably, many people (including the people who worked on the show and paid to make the show) did not like hearing this from Barr, so people at ABC decided to cancel the show.

Political correctness is just people reacting to other people; parents protecting their children; the oppressed and underserved advocating for themselves. Canceling “Roseanne” is not society regulating “mean” speech; it is us regulating our collective morality, so that we don’t atrophy into a moral vacuum. It is saying no, because we are more than animals.

Lindy West is the author of “Shrill: Notes From a Loud Woman” and a contributing opinion writer.

gimmesometruth27

i just drank an alka seltzer cold and cough for this bug i am fighting. i apologize in advance for any anti-white people hatred that i post later.

self hating racism is a little known side effect, but it normally hits me in a big way.

gimmesometruth27

and to everyone comparing what samantha bee said to what roseanne said and calling them equal, i will just throw the flag right here.

cincybearcat

Ugh I’m tired of hearing that they aren’t equivalent. No shit.  But they are both bad, one worse than the other for sure. And Rosannes show was canceled already what more do you want? You can’t ignore Samatha Bees stupidity just because Barr was stupider 

Halifax2TheMax

cincybearcat said:

Ugh I’m tired of hearing that they aren’t equivalent. No shit.  But they are both bad, one worse than the other for sure. And Rosannes show was canceled already what more do you want? You can’t ignore Samatha Bees stupidity just because Barr was stupider 

What more do we want? For people to understand the difference between the two situations. And for Team Trump Treason to get a moral compass.

brianlux

Alright, enough of this Roseanne bullshit.  Can we talk about some real news?  What is Pee Wee Herman up to these days?