Knowing What You Know Now, Would You Still Support Trump for President?

HughFreakingDillon

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

JimmyV said:

Meltdown99 said:

When the US stops meddling in other countries affairs and starting wars that lead to regime changes and expanded war, the maybe, just maybe you can cry foul about Russia.

It's a fair point but also a bit overly simplistic. I can be critical of my own government and aware of my country's faults while still being concerned about Russia meddling in our election.

Personally I don't concern myself to much about Russian meddling.  

I would if there were some way to pin this thing down with undeniable proof.  Without that (and with all due respect to those who believe it, I still don't see solid proof) the issue is doing more to harm dems than help. 

It also distracts from other reasons that Hillary did not win, reasons such as (and ranking in impact) a) the electoral college, b) too many people who thought she was a shoe-in so stayed home and didn't vote, c)   those skeletons in her closet and D)  her awkward voice and manner of speech.

Totally agree.  The electoral college thing is weird to me though, it’s kinda like being pissed off when you lost a baseball game but had more hits than the other team.  You still lose when you don’t score runs.  Everyone knew the rules going in, it’s never been the popular vote or base hits that matter.

people didn’t have any complaints during the campaign about the electoral college but as soon as the results were in it suddenly was like “wait, that’s unfair!”

I've been saying this since the beginning. the EC was fair until their candidate won the pop but lost the EC. the amount of "but she got more votes" memes on Twitter still astounds me. 

it's not just the right that needs to let HC go. The left does as well. 

brianlux

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

JimmyV said:

Meltdown99 said:

When the US stops meddling in other countries affairs and starting wars that lead to regime changes and expanded war, the maybe, just maybe you can cry foul about Russia.

It's a fair point but also a bit overly simplistic. I can be critical of my own government and aware of my country's faults while still being concerned about Russia meddling in our election.

Personally I don't concern myself to much about Russian meddling.  

I would if there were some way to pin this thing down with undeniable proof.  Without that (and with all due respect to those who believe it, I still don't see solid proof) the issue is doing more to harm dems than help. 

It also distracts from other reasons that Hillary did not win, reasons such as (and ranking in impact) a) the electoral college, b) too many people who thought she was a shoe-in so stayed home and didn't vote, c)   those skeletons in her closet and D)  her awkward voice and manner of speech.

Totally agree.  The electoral college thing is weird to me though, it’s kinda like being pissed off when you lost a baseball game but had more hits than the other team.  You still lose when you don’t score runs.  Everyone knew the rules going in, it’s never been the popular vote or base hits that matter.

people didn’t have any complaints during the campaign about the electoral college but as soon as the results were in it suddenly was like “wait, that’s unfair!”

Yeah, the electoral college thing is outmoded but those who are still in favor of it aren't going to change their mind.  So to my way of thinking anyway, the two biggest issues in 2016 were lack of voter turn out and poor choices of candidates.  If I hadn't lived in California where Clinton was assured of the e.c. win, I would have had to vote for her (of course!) instead of Stein.  Of all the "choose the lesser of two evils" kind of voting I've ever done, that was the worst.  And I've been voting in presidential elections since the early 70's.

JimmyV

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

JimmyV said:

Meltdown99 said:

When the US stops meddling in other countries affairs and starting wars that lead to regime changes and expanded war, the maybe, just maybe you can cry foul about Russia.

It's a fair point but also a bit overly simplistic. I can be critical of my own government and aware of my country's faults while still being concerned about Russia meddling in our election.

Personally I don't concern myself to much about Russian meddling.  

I would if there were some way to pin this thing down with undeniable proof.  Without that (and with all due respect to those who believe it, I still don't see solid proof) the issue is doing more to harm dems than help. 

It also distracts from other reasons that Hillary did not win, reasons such as (and ranking in impact) a) the electoral college, b) too many people who thought she was a shoe-in so stayed home and didn't vote, c)   those skeletons in her closet and D)  her awkward voice and manner of speech.

Totally agree.  The electoral college thing is weird to me though, it’s kinda like being pissed off when you lost a baseball game but had more hits than the other team.  You still lose when you don’t score runs.  Everyone knew the rules going in, it’s never been the popular vote or base hits that matter.

people didn’t have any complaints during the campaign about the electoral college but as soon as the results were in it suddenly was like “wait, that’s unfair!”

I've been saying this since the beginning. the EC was fair until their candidate won the pop but lost the EC. the amount of "but she got more votes" memes on Twitter still astounds me. 

it's not just the right that needs to let HC go. The left does as well. 

Agreed. When Al Gore won the popular vote but lost the Electoral College in 2000, no one tried to paint him as a victim. They tried to blame Ralph Nader, yes, but there was also an understanding that Gore was not a great nominee.

tbergs

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

JimmyV said:

Meltdown99 said:

When the US stops meddling in other countries affairs and starting wars that lead to regime changes and expanded war, the maybe, just maybe you can cry foul about Russia.

It's a fair point but also a bit overly simplistic. I can be critical of my own government and aware of my country's faults while still being concerned about Russia meddling in our election.

Personally I don't concern myself to much about Russian meddling.  

I would if there were some way to pin this thing down with undeniable proof.  Without that (and with all due respect to those who believe it, I still don't see solid proof) the issue is doing more to harm dems than help. 

It also distracts from other reasons that Hillary did not win, reasons such as (and ranking in impact) a) the electoral college, b) too many people who thought she was a shoe-in so stayed home and didn't vote, c)   those skeletons in her closet and D)  her awkward voice and manner of speech.

Totally agree.  The electoral college thing is weird to me though, it’s kinda like being pissed off when you lost a baseball game but had more hits than the other team.  You still lose when you don’t score runs.  Everyone knew the rules going in, it’s never been the popular vote or base hits that matter.

people didn’t have any complaints during the campaign about the electoral college but as soon as the results were in it suddenly was like “wait, that’s unfair!”

I've been saying this since the beginning. the EC was fair until their candidate won the pop but lost the EC. the amount of "but she got more votes" memes on Twitter still astounds me. 

it's not just the right that needs to let HC go. The left does as well. 

I disagree. The EC has been a problem for a while now, but until 2000, no one bothered to think about it. Comparing it to a baseball game or sporting event is reflective of how little we value the vote of the people. If my vote means about as much as being a stranded runner, then we should really be looking at how to make each and every "hit" count when it comes to voter impact. How can you expect a strong voter turnout when it's not really my vote that will make the difference?

Those wanting to make it about Trump or Hillary, aren't acknowledging the bigger issue. It's the process and it should concern us as a country moving forward, no matter what political party you support. Unfortunately, it's only ever about the winning "side" even though we are all on the same damn team.

HughFreakingDillon

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

JimmyV said:

Meltdown99 said:

When the US stops meddling in other countries affairs and starting wars that lead to regime changes and expanded war, the maybe, just maybe you can cry foul about Russia.

It's a fair point but also a bit overly simplistic. I can be critical of my own government and aware of my country's faults while still being concerned about Russia meddling in our election.

Personally I don't concern myself to much about Russian meddling.  

I would if there were some way to pin this thing down with undeniable proof.  Without that (and with all due respect to those who believe it, I still don't see solid proof) the issue is doing more to harm dems than help. 

It also distracts from other reasons that Hillary did not win, reasons such as (and ranking in impact) a) the electoral college, b) too many people who thought she was a shoe-in so stayed home and didn't vote, c)   those skeletons in her closet and D)  her awkward voice and manner of speech.

Totally agree.  The electoral college thing is weird to me though, it’s kinda like being pissed off when you lost a baseball game but had more hits than the other team.  You still lose when you don’t score runs.  Everyone knew the rules going in, it’s never been the popular vote or base hits that matter.

people didn’t have any complaints during the campaign about the electoral college but as soon as the results were in it suddenly was like “wait, that’s unfair!”

I've been saying this since the beginning. the EC was fair until their candidate won the pop but lost the EC. the amount of "but she got more votes" memes on Twitter still astounds me. 

it's not just the right that needs to let HC go. The left does as well. 

I disagree. The EC has been a problem for a while now, but until 2000, no one bothered to think about it. Comparing it to a baseball game or sporting event is reflective of how little we value the vote of the people. If my vote means about as much as being a stranded runner, then we should really be looking at how to make each and every "hit" count when it comes to voter impact. How can you expect a strong voter turnout when it's not really my vote that will make the difference?

Those wanting to make it about Trump or Hillary, aren't acknowledging the bigger issue. It's the process and it should concern us as a country moving forward, no matter what political party you support. Unfortunately, it's only ever about the winning "side" even though we are all on the same damn team.

I agree the EC needs reform. But that's not what I was saying. The EC was just peachy for everyone until their candidate lost. If it had been reversed,  (Hillary won and Trump won the Pop) the left most assuredly would be holding the EC high as the saviour of the nation, not complaining about how unfair it is. 

OnWis97

If the election could magically be re-held tomorrow....Trump still beats Hillary.  

If we could magically re-hold the election tomorrow but with Bernie instead of Hillary?  That would be interesting.

If we could magically re-hold it tomorrow with Biden instead of Hillary?  Then Biden probably wins.

Trump has not lost any support.  The hatred of Hillary has not diminished.  America does not regret it's choice on NOV 8, though America does lament the circumstances that led to that being the choice.

tbergs

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

JimmyV said:

Meltdown99 said:

When the US stops meddling in other countries affairs and starting wars that lead to regime changes and expanded war, the maybe, just maybe you can cry foul about Russia.

It's a fair point but also a bit overly simplistic. I can be critical of my own government and aware of my country's faults while still being concerned about Russia meddling in our election.

Personally I don't concern myself to much about Russian meddling.  

I would if there were some way to pin this thing down with undeniable proof.  Without that (and with all due respect to those who believe it, I still don't see solid proof) the issue is doing more to harm dems than help. 

It also distracts from other reasons that Hillary did not win, reasons such as (and ranking in impact) a) the electoral college, b) too many people who thought she was a shoe-in so stayed home and didn't vote, c)   those skeletons in her closet and D)  her awkward voice and manner of speech.

Totally agree.  The electoral college thing is weird to me though, it’s kinda like being pissed off when you lost a baseball game but had more hits than the other team.  You still lose when you don’t score runs.  Everyone knew the rules going in, it’s never been the popular vote or base hits that matter.

people didn’t have any complaints during the campaign about the electoral college but as soon as the results were in it suddenly was like “wait, that’s unfair!”

I've been saying this since the beginning. the EC was fair until their candidate won the pop but lost the EC. the amount of "but she got more votes" memes on Twitter still astounds me. 

it's not just the right that needs to let HC go. The left does as well. 

I disagree. The EC has been a problem for a while now, but until 2000, no one bothered to think about it. Comparing it to a baseball game or sporting event is reflective of how little we value the vote of the people. If my vote means about as much as being a stranded runner, then we should really be looking at how to make each and every "hit" count when it comes to voter impact. How can you expect a strong voter turnout when it's not really my vote that will make the difference?

Those wanting to make it about Trump or Hillary, aren't acknowledging the bigger issue. It's the process and it should concern us as a country moving forward, no matter what political party you support. Unfortunately, it's only ever about the winning "side" even though we are all on the same damn team.

I agree the EC needs reform. But that's not what I was saying. The EC was just peachy for everyone until their candidate lost. If it had been reversed,  (Hillary won and Trump won the Pop) the left most assuredly would be holding the EC high as the saviour of the nation, not complaining about how unfair it is. 

Fair enough. Truth is, I doubt we ever see a republican win the popular vote and not the EC. I can't think of a way that would ever happen. Not in our current political climate anyway. Although, I also didn't think there were 60 million people willing to throw a dart at an orange and call it a bulls eye. Yuck.

PJ_Soul

JimmyV said:

She didn't lose because of Russia but her losing was Russia's preferred outcome. She lost because of a unique set of flaws that should have prevented her nomination in the first place but did not. Russia played a role but that role was magnified by the weaknesses of the candidate. Yes there was propaganda and yes there was fake news, but it was so easily believed because so many minds were already decided about the Clintons long ago. A stronger nominee would not have been nearly as vulnerable to Russian mischief as was Hillary Clinton.

Still...none of that excuses voting for Donald Trump.

Given how close it was, I think she technically lost only because of Comey's bullshit right before the election. If that hadn't happened, I think she would have still squeaked out a win. After that... I think she lost because of third party votes and write ins. I say this without consideration for whatever else she or the DNC did wrong during the campaign. These two factors are what literally lost the election for her on voting day (or, you could say, what won the election for Trump).

HughFreakingDillon

OnWis97 said:

If the election could magically be re-held tomorrow....Trump still beats Hillary.  

If we could magically re-hold the election tomorrow but with Bernie instead of Hillary?  That would be interesting.

If we could magically re-hold it tomorrow with Biden instead of Hillary?  Then Biden probably wins.

Trump has not lost any support.  The hatred of Hillary has not diminished.  America does not regret it's choice on NOV 8, though America does lament the circumstances that led to that being the choice.

I honestly don't believe for one second Bernie would have won. I don't think he would have done better than hillary even. he was too far left for even a lot of lefties to stomach. the "commie socialist" rhetoric would have been ramped up to 11 and probably would have scared a lot of people. 

HughFreakingDillon

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tbergs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

brianlux said:

Meltdown99 said:

JimmyV said:

Meltdown99 said:

When the US stops meddling in other countries affairs and starting wars that lead to regime changes and expanded war, the maybe, just maybe you can cry foul about Russia.

It's a fair point but also a bit overly simplistic. I can be critical of my own government and aware of my country's faults while still being concerned about Russia meddling in our election.

Personally I don't concern myself to much about Russian meddling.  

I would if there were some way to pin this thing down with undeniable proof.  Without that (and with all due respect to those who believe it, I still don't see solid proof) the issue is doing more to harm dems than help. 

It also distracts from other reasons that Hillary did not win, reasons such as (and ranking in impact) a) the electoral college, b) too many people who thought she was a shoe-in so stayed home and didn't vote, c)   those skeletons in her closet and D)  her awkward voice and manner of speech.

Totally agree.  The electoral college thing is weird to me though, it’s kinda like being pissed off when you lost a baseball game but had more hits than the other team.  You still lose when you don’t score runs.  Everyone knew the rules going in, it’s never been the popular vote or base hits that matter.

people didn’t have any complaints during the campaign about the electoral college but as soon as the results were in it suddenly was like “wait, that’s unfair!”

I've been saying this since the beginning. the EC was fair until their candidate won the pop but lost the EC. the amount of "but she got more votes" memes on Twitter still astounds me. 

it's not just the right that needs to let HC go. The left does as well. 

I disagree. The EC has been a problem for a while now, but until 2000, no one bothered to think about it. Comparing it to a baseball game or sporting event is reflective of how little we value the vote of the people. If my vote means about as much as being a stranded runner, then we should really be looking at how to make each and every "hit" count when it comes to voter impact. How can you expect a strong voter turnout when it's not really my vote that will make the difference?

Those wanting to make it about Trump or Hillary, aren't acknowledging the bigger issue. It's the process and it should concern us as a country moving forward, no matter what political party you support. Unfortunately, it's only ever about the winning "side" even though we are all on the same damn team.

I agree the EC needs reform. But that's not what I was saying. The EC was just peachy for everyone until their candidate lost. If it had been reversed,  (Hillary won and Trump won the Pop) the left most assuredly would be holding the EC high as the saviour of the nation, not complaining about how unfair it is. 

Fair enough. Truth is, I doubt we ever see a republican win the popular vote and not the EC. I can't think of a way that would ever happen. Not in our current political climate anyway. Although, I also didn't think there were 60 million people willing to throw a dart at an orange and call it a bulls eye. Yuck.

LOL

Go Beavers

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

If the election could magically be re-held tomorrow....Trump still beats Hillary.  

If we could magically re-hold the election tomorrow but with Bernie instead of Hillary?  That would be interesting.

If we could magically re-hold it tomorrow with Biden instead of Hillary?  Then Biden probably wins.

Trump has not lost any support.  The hatred of Hillary has not diminished.  America does not regret it's choice on NOV 8, though America does lament the circumstances that led to that being the choice.

I honestly don't believe for one second Bernie would have won. I don't think he would have done better than hillary even. he was too far left for even a lot of lefties to stomach. the "commie socialist" rhetoric would have been ramped up to 11 and probably would have scared a lot of people. 

It would’ve been a slam dunk for Bernie. 

HughFreakingDillon

Go Beavers said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

If the election could magically be re-held tomorrow....Trump still beats Hillary.  

If we could magically re-hold the election tomorrow but with Bernie instead of Hillary?  That would be interesting.

If we could magically re-hold it tomorrow with Biden instead of Hillary?  Then Biden probably wins.

Trump has not lost any support.  The hatred of Hillary has not diminished.  America does not regret it's choice on NOV 8, though America does lament the circumstances that led to that being the choice.

I honestly don't believe for one second Bernie would have won. I don't think he would have done better than hillary even. he was too far left for even a lot of lefties to stomach. the "commie socialist" rhetoric would have been ramped up to 11 and probably would have scared a lot of people. 

It would’ve been a slam dunk for Bernie. 

you really think so? I don't think the US is ready for a Bernie. 

Go Beavers

OnWis97 said:

If the election could magically be re-held tomorrow....Trump still beats Hillary.  

If we could magically re-hold the election tomorrow but with Bernie instead of Hillary?  That would be interesting.

If we could magically re-hold it tomorrow with Biden instead of Hillary?  Then Biden probably wins.

Trump has not lost any support.  The hatred of Hillary has not diminished.  America does not regret it's choice on NOV 8, though America does lament the circumstances that led to that being the choice.

trump’s approval rating has dropped over the past year, so he has lost support. 

JimmyV

I don't know if I believe Bernie would have won. Maybe he would have, but I'm not sure. However, he would have fought like hell for every vote in Michigan and Wisconsin. That I do believe.  

Ledbetterman10

Knowing what we know now? What has been learned since he became president that wasn't already known during his campaign. After watching his campaign, his presidency is going exactly as I expected it too.

JimmyV

Ledbetterman10 said:

Knowing what we know now? What has been learned since he became president that wasn't already known during his campaign. After watching his campaign, his presidency is going exactly as I expected it too.

Known to people who didn't like or support him, sure, but was it known to his voters? Are people who believed he was going to "drain the swamp" happy?" Are people who believed he was going to "build the wall" happy?" Is there anyone out there who is tired of all the winning?

RoleModelsinBlood31

JimmyV said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Knowing what we know now? What has been learned since he became president that wasn't already known during his campaign. After watching his campaign, his presidency is going exactly as I expected it too.

Known to people who didn't like or support him, sure, but was it known to his voters? Are people who believed he was going to "drain the swamp" happy?" Are people who believed he was going to "build the wall" happy?" Is there anyone out there who is tired of all the winning?

Me! Wall or no wall, illegal crossings have been slowed to a crawl since he’s been in. I can only think of two reports of a tractor trailer semi filled with cooked dead illegals found in a parking lot abandoned since he’s been in office.  Those weekly discoveries in Texas were making me sick during Obama’s years.

HughFreakingDillon

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

JimmyV said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Knowing what we know now? What has been learned since he became president that wasn't already known during his campaign. After watching his campaign, his presidency is going exactly as I expected it too.

Known to people who didn't like or support him, sure, but was it known to his voters? Are people who believed he was going to "drain the swamp" happy?" Are people who believed he was going to "build the wall" happy?" Is there anyone out there who is tired of all the winning?

Me! Wall or no wall, illegal crossings have been slowed to a crawl since he’s been in. I can only think of two reports of a tractor trailer semi filled with cooked dead illegals found in a parking lot abandoned since he’s been in office.  Those weekly discoveries in Texas were making me sick during Obama’s years.

"cooked dead illegals"?

JimmyV

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

JimmyV said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Knowing what we know now? What has been learned since he became president that wasn't already known during his campaign. After watching his campaign, his presidency is going exactly as I expected it too.

Known to people who didn't like or support him, sure, but was it known to his voters? Are people who believed he was going to "drain the swamp" happy?" Are people who believed he was going to "build the wall" happy?" Is there anyone out there who is tired of all the winning?

Me! Wall or no wall, illegal crossings have been slowed to a crawl since he’s been in. I can only think of two reports of a tractor trailer semi filled with cooked dead illegals found in a parking lot abandoned since he’s been in office.  Those weekly discoveries in Texas were making me sick during Obama’s years.

"cooked dead illegals"?

Wow.

Halifax2TheMax

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

JimmyV said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Knowing what we know now? What has been learned since he became president that wasn't already known during his campaign. After watching his campaign, his presidency is going exactly as I expected it too.

Known to people who didn't like or support him, sure, but was it known to his voters? Are people who believed he was going to "drain the swamp" happy?" Are people who believed he was going to "build the wall" happy?" Is there anyone out there who is tired of all the winning?

Me! Wall or no wall, illegal crossings have been slowed to a crawl since he’s been in. I can only think of two reports of a tractor trailer semi filled with cooked dead illegals found in a parking lot abandoned since he’s been in office.  Those weekly discoveries in Texas were making me sick during Obama’s years.

“Weekly?” Care to give a count during Obama’s terms?