Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    No, when people say that it's because the lawmakers that are pushing these bills are overwhelmingly men.  The R party is the one that is pro life and it's lawmaker makeup is not 50/50, which would be the population split. 
    I was referring to the general population. Depending on the qualifiers, it’s not far from a 50/50 gender split on abortion views. If nearly half the people voting these guys in office are women and support the laws, I don’t see how it’s men trying to control women.
    No elected party is a 50/50 split.

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    The Juggler said:
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.

    I didn't say that mace.  What I said was to encourage men to stand up for women's rights.  They are the ones who may be denied the right to their bodies, not us men.  That simple.  I never said it was men taking away women's rights. 

    HOWEVER... lets see who will make the final judgement- men and women equally?
    Justices

    Not to mention that all but 1 of these people who'll potentially vote to overturn it was nominated by a president who did not receive the most votes in their respective election.

    Welcome to Minority Rule. 

    Exactly!  And this is why it is so important for the majority to get off our butts and speak out, write and call our representatives, and advocate for better education. And vote for candidates who are not pro-authoritarian!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,255
    edited May 2022
    The Juggler said:
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.

    I didn't say that mace.  What I said was to encourage men to stand up for women's rights.  They are the ones who may be denied the right to their bodies, not us men.  That simple.  I never said it was men taking away women's rights. 

    HOWEVER... lets see who will make the final judgement- men and women equally?
    Justices

    Not to mention that all but 1 of these people who'll potentially vote to overturn it was nominated by a president who did not receive the most votes in their respective election.

    Welcome to Minority Rule. 
    I wasn’t aware that presidential elections were determined based on popular vote.  Campaigns would be a lot different if they knew they had to get more votes out of CA and NY.
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    bootlegger10 said:
    The Juggler said:
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.

    I didn't say that mace.  What I said was to encourage men to stand up for women's rights.  They are the ones who may be denied the right to their bodies, not us men.  That simple.  I never said it was men taking away women's rights. 

    HOWEVER... lets see who will make the final judgement- men and women equally?
    Justices

    Not to mention that all but 1 of these people who'll potentially vote to overturn it was nominated by a president who did not receive the most votes in their respective election.

    Welcome to Minority Rule. 
    I wasn’t aware that presidential elections were determined based on popular vote.  Campaigns would be a lot different if they knew they had to get more votes out of CA and NY.
    It’s inherently a problem though as is anything that gives extra power to a smaller group of a population

    California can be 99% pro choice and they only get two senators.  You could have 10 states that are split 40/60 favouring pro life and they get 20 senators. Population is the same.  The house of reps doesn’t solve that because without the senate you can’t do anything anyway.  The filibuster further increases the power of minority rule 

    same concept in an extreme but mathematical possibility of a presidential election.  A candidate could lose the popular vote by 10,20,30 million votes and still be the president. 

    It is what it is, but there is no doubt it’s set up to create the conditions for extremely unpopular positions to become law.  If government doesn’t have the consent  of the governed that’s how revolutions start.  Just look how militant some groups get when their view isn’t even the majority view, just imagine what happens when it’s now 60 percent of the population 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    No, when people say that it's because the lawmakers that are pushing these bills are overwhelmingly men.  The R party is the one that is pro life and it's lawmaker makeup is not 50/50, which would be the population split. 
    I was referring to the general population. Depending on the qualifiers, it’s not far from a 50/50 gender split on abortion views. If nearly half the people voting these guys in office are women and support the laws, I don’t see how it’s men trying to control women.
    No elected party is a 50/50 split.

    Then I don't understand the usage of the phrase in that context.  I've never heard it said that it's men controlling women, when it comes to the population.  That phrase is used (to my knowledge) as legislators that are overwhelmingly men making these laws.  

    And btw, the vote in this country isn't split 50/50 men and women for R and D.  Women lean/vote D at a 56-38%.  Men vote/lean R at 50-42%
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    Cropduster-80 said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    The Juggler said:
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.

    I didn't say that mace.  What I said was to encourage men to stand up for women's rights.  They are the ones who may be denied the right to their bodies, not us men.  That simple.  I never said it was men taking away women's rights. 

    HOWEVER... lets see who will make the final judgement- men and women equally?
    Justices

    Not to mention that all but 1 of these people who'll potentially vote to overturn it was nominated by a president who did not receive the most votes in their respective election.

    Welcome to Minority Rule. 
    I wasn’t aware that presidential elections were determined based on popular vote.  Campaigns would be a lot different if they knew they had to get more votes out of CA and NY.
    It’s inherently a problem though as is anything that gives extra power to a smaller group of a population

    California can be 99% pro choice and they only get two senators.  You could have 10 states that are split 40/60 favouring pro life and they get 20 senators. Population is the same.  The house of reps doesn’t solve that because without the senate you can’t do anything anyway.  The filibuster further increases the power of minority rule 

    same concept in an extreme but mathematical possibility of a presidential election.  A candidate could lose the popular vote by 10,20,30 million votes and still be the president. 

    It is what it is, but there is no doubt it’s set up to create the conditions for extremely unpopular positions to become law.  If government doesn’t have the consent  of the governed that’s how revolutions start.  Just look how militant some groups get when their view isn’t even the majority view, just imagine what happens when it’s now 60 percent of the population 
    I love how republicans only think CA and NY would be different. lol. You don't think a Democrat would spend a whole lot more time and resources in Texas or some other red state? Such nonsense. 


    www.myspace.com
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,590
    edited May 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    No, when people say that it's because the lawmakers that are pushing these bills are overwhelmingly men.  The R party is the one that is pro life and it's lawmaker makeup is not 50/50, which would be the population split. 
    I was referring to the general population. Depending on the qualifiers, it’s not far from a 50/50 gender split on abortion views. If nearly half the people voting these guys in office are women and support the laws, I don’t see how it’s men trying to control women.
    No elected party is a 50/50 split.

    Then I don't understand the usage of the phrase in that context.  I've never heard it said that it's men controlling women, when it comes to the population.  That phrase is used (to my knowledge) as legislators that are overwhelmingly men making these laws.  

    And btw, the vote in this country isn't split 50/50 men and women for R and D.  Women lean/vote D at a 56-38%.  Men vote/lean R at 50-42%
    Suburban women.....we need them this November. 
    www.myspace.com
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    The Juggler said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    bootlegger10 said:
    The Juggler said:
    brianlux said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.

    I didn't say that mace.  What I said was to encourage men to stand up for women's rights.  They are the ones who may be denied the right to their bodies, not us men.  That simple.  I never said it was men taking away women's rights. 

    HOWEVER... lets see who will make the final judgement- men and women equally?
    Justices

    Not to mention that all but 1 of these people who'll potentially vote to overturn it was nominated by a president who did not receive the most votes in their respective election.

    Welcome to Minority Rule. 
    I wasn’t aware that presidential elections were determined based on popular vote.  Campaigns would be a lot different if they knew they had to get more votes out of CA and NY.
    It’s inherently a problem though as is anything that gives extra power to a smaller group of a population

    California can be 99% pro choice and they only get two senators.  You could have 10 states that are split 40/60 favouring pro life and they get 20 senators. Population is the same.  The house of reps doesn’t solve that because without the senate you can’t do anything anyway.  The filibuster further increases the power of minority rule 

    same concept in an extreme but mathematical possibility of a presidential election.  A candidate could lose the popular vote by 10,20,30 million votes and still be the president. 

    It is what it is, but there is no doubt it’s set up to create the conditions for extremely unpopular positions to become law.  If government doesn’t have the consent  of the governed that’s how revolutions start.  Just look how militant some groups get when their view isn’t even the majority view, just imagine what happens when it’s now 60 percent of the population 
    I love how republicans only think CA and NY would be different. lol. You don't think a Democrat would spend a whole lot more time and resources in Texas or some other red state? Such nonsense. 


    Texas was less than a 6 point split in the last presidential election.  It’s way, way closer than the policies of Texas would indicate 

    thats 5.2 million democrats that even bothered to vote who live in a state with the Texas abortion law 

    population largely in the middle on the whole, laws coming way from the right 

    florida is another.  Their hard right shift politically isn’t in proportion to the voter base. It was even closer 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    No, when people say that it's because the lawmakers that are pushing these bills are overwhelmingly men.  The R party is the one that is pro life and it's lawmaker makeup is not 50/50, which would be the population split. 
    I was referring to the general population. Depending on the qualifiers, it’s not far from a 50/50 gender split on abortion views. If nearly half the people voting these guys in office are women and support the laws, I don’t see how it’s men trying to control women.
    No elected party is a 50/50 split.

    Then I don't understand the usage of the phrase in that context.  I've never heard it said that it's men controlling women, when it comes to the population.  That phrase is used (to my knowledge) as legislators that are overwhelmingly men making these laws.  

    And btw, the vote in this country isn't split 50/50 men and women for R and D.  Women lean/vote D at a 56-38%.  Men vote/lean R at 50-42%
    You were referring to the elected leaders as not being a 50/50 split. At least I thought you were. That has never been the case for any party. So why mention just republicans as it being an issue for?

    That’s probably the single biggest pro-choice argument, that they don’t want men to control women’s bodies. Yes, majority of republicans making said laws are men. But they were voted in and are supported by a lot of women. And polls that generally ban abortions but allow for certain exceptions are fairly close to a 50/50 gender split. Therefore I don’t see calling abortion laws as men trying to control a women’s body as accurate. If that were the case then women wouldn’t make up a significant portion of the pro-life movement.
    It really just comes down to does the rights of the unborn child supersede that of the mother, or do the mother’s rights supersede the unborn baby? Not if you believe in old white guys then you’re against abortion. Every single person I’ve ever had a genuine conversation about this topic with it has come down to that.

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,879
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    No, when people say that it's because the lawmakers that are pushing these bills are overwhelmingly men.  The R party is the one that is pro life and it's lawmaker makeup is not 50/50, which would be the population split. 
    I was referring to the general population. Depending on the qualifiers, it’s not far from a 50/50 gender split on abortion views. If nearly half the people voting these guys in office are women and support the laws, I don’t see how it’s men trying to control women.
    No elected party is a 50/50 split.

    Then I don't understand the usage of the phrase in that context.  I've never heard it said that it's men controlling women, when it comes to the population.  That phrase is used (to my knowledge) as legislators that are overwhelmingly men making these laws.  

    And btw, the vote in this country isn't split 50/50 men and women for R and D.  Women lean/vote D at a 56-38%.  Men vote/lean R at 50-42%
    You were referring to the elected leaders as not being a 50/50 split. At least I thought you were. That has never been the case for any party. So why mention just republicans as it being an issue for?

    That’s probably the single biggest pro-choice argument, that they don’t want men to control women’s bodies. Yes, majority of republicans making said laws are men. But they were voted in and are supported by a lot of women. And polls that generally ban abortions but allow for certain exceptions are fairly close to a 50/50 gender split. Therefore I don’t see calling abortion laws as men trying to control a women’s body as accurate. If that were the case then women wouldn’t make up a significant portion of the pro-life movement.
    It really just comes down to does the rights of the unborn child supersede that of the mother, or do the mother’s rights supersede the unborn baby? Not if you believe in old white guys then you’re against abortion. Every single person I’ve ever had a genuine conversation about this topic with it has come down to that.

    Look at the states passing the laws,  then look at the republican party legislative bodies in those states. You will see them as overwhelmingly male.  That's the point of the statement around men passing these laws.  You can't just look at the country as a whole and say,  look there are just as many women serving office so it must not be men driving these laws.  Well these laws aren't across the country,  they are in certain states.  

    No offense Mace, but you're kind of picking some strange arguments here the last few days.  
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited May 2022
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    No, when people say that it's because the lawmakers that are pushing these bills are overwhelmingly men.  The R party is the one that is pro life and it's lawmaker makeup is not 50/50, which would be the population split. 
    I was referring to the general population. Depending on the qualifiers, it’s not far from a 50/50 gender split on abortion views. If nearly half the people voting these guys in office are women and support the laws, I don’t see how it’s men trying to control women.
    No elected party is a 50/50 split.

    Then I don't understand the usage of the phrase in that context.  I've never heard it said that it's men controlling women, when it comes to the population.  That phrase is used (to my knowledge) as legislators that are overwhelmingly men making these laws.  

    And btw, the vote in this country isn't split 50/50 men and women for R and D.  Women lean/vote D at a 56-38%.  Men vote/lean R at 50-42%
    You were referring to the elected leaders as not being a 50/50 split. At least I thought you were. That has never been the case for any party. So why mention just republicans as it being an issue for?

    That’s probably the single biggest pro-choice argument, that they don’t want men to control women’s bodies. Yes, majority of republicans making said laws are men. But they were voted in and are supported by a lot of women. And polls that generally ban abortions but allow for certain exceptions are fairly close to a 50/50 gender split. Therefore I don’t see calling abortion laws as men trying to control a women’s body as accurate. If that were the case then women wouldn’t make up a significant portion of the pro-life movement.
    It really just comes down to does the rights of the unborn child supersede that of the mother, or do the mother’s rights supersede the unborn baby? Not if you believe in old white guys then you’re against abortion. Every single person I’ve ever had a genuine conversation about this topic with it has come down to that.

    Look at the states passing the laws,  then look at the republican party legislative bodies in those states. You will see them as overwhelmingly male.  That's the point of the statement around men passing these laws.  You can't just look at the country as a whole and say,  look there are just as many women serving office so it must not be men driving these laws.  Well these laws aren't across the country,  they are in certain states.  

    No offense Mace, but you're kind of picking some strange arguments here the last few days.  
    It also ignores the obvious. 

    It is an issue to a large extent because it concerns women.  If men got pregnant there is absolutely no way abortion restrictions get any traction.  All these issues become issues because there are people pushing the issue. More often than not it’s coordinated to achieve a political end.  If republicans didn’t make abortion an issue than significantly less republicans would be pro life.  It’s as simple as that 

    it’s an abstract argument obviously, but it’s true. Male lawmakers aren’t passing restrictions that have anything to do with negativity affecting their autonomy over themselves 

    The idea that people organically are that aggressively pro life is absurd.  Their churches, advocacy groups, and politicians shape their views. 100%.  Don’t want an abortion? Don’t get one.  That’s a pretty Republican position on most issues (don’t want a vaccine, don’t get one).   If they wanted to repackage the message they could. 

    The southern Baptist convention was officially pro choice until the 1980’s they even were known to take out full page ads in newspapers affirming the right to an abortion. Case in point of how churches shape the views of their followers. I don’t know a single southern Baptist today that’s pro choice and neither is the church. Church switches sides and so do the followers. 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    No, when people say that it's because the lawmakers that are pushing these bills are overwhelmingly men.  The R party is the one that is pro life and it's lawmaker makeup is not 50/50, which would be the population split. 
    I was referring to the general population. Depending on the qualifiers, it’s not far from a 50/50 gender split on abortion views. If nearly half the people voting these guys in office are women and support the laws, I don’t see how it’s men trying to control women.
    No elected party is a 50/50 split.

    Then I don't understand the usage of the phrase in that context.  I've never heard it said that it's men controlling women, when it comes to the population.  That phrase is used (to my knowledge) as legislators that are overwhelmingly men making these laws.  

    And btw, the vote in this country isn't split 50/50 men and women for R and D.  Women lean/vote D at a 56-38%.  Men vote/lean R at 50-42%
    You were referring to the elected leaders as not being a 50/50 split. At least I thought you were. That has never been the case for any party. So why mention just republicans as it being an issue for?

    That’s probably the single biggest pro-choice argument, that they don’t want men to control women’s bodies. Yes, majority of republicans making said laws are men. But they were voted in and are supported by a lot of women. And polls that generally ban abortions but allow for certain exceptions are fairly close to a 50/50 gender split. Therefore I don’t see calling abortion laws as men trying to control a women’s body as accurate. If that were the case then women wouldn’t make up a significant portion of the pro-life movement.
    It really just comes down to does the rights of the unborn child supersede that of the mother, or do the mother’s rights supersede the unborn baby? Not if you believe in old white guys then you’re against abortion. Every single person I’ve ever had a genuine conversation about this topic with it has come down to that.

    Look at the states passing the laws,  then look at the republican party legislative bodies in those states. You will see them as overwhelmingly male.  That's the point of the statement around men passing these laws.  You can't just look at the country as a whole and say,  look there are just as many women serving office so it must not be men driving these laws.  Well these laws aren't across the country,  they are in certain states.  

    No offense Mace, but you're kind of picking some strange arguments here the last few days.  
    The fish isn’t taking the bait today.  
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    No, when people say that it's because the lawmakers that are pushing these bills are overwhelmingly men.  The R party is the one that is pro life and it's lawmaker makeup is not 50/50, which would be the population split. 
    I was referring to the general population. Depending on the qualifiers, it’s not far from a 50/50 gender split on abortion views. If nearly half the people voting these guys in office are women and support the laws, I don’t see how it’s men trying to control women.
    No elected party is a 50/50 split.

    Then I don't understand the usage of the phrase in that context.  I've never heard it said that it's men controlling women, when it comes to the population.  That phrase is used (to my knowledge) as legislators that are overwhelmingly men making these laws.  

    And btw, the vote in this country isn't split 50/50 men and women for R and D.  Women lean/vote D at a 56-38%.  Men vote/lean R at 50-42%
    You were referring to the elected leaders as not being a 50/50 split. At least I thought you were. That has never been the case for any party. So why mention just republicans as it being an issue for?

    That’s probably the single biggest pro-choice argument, that they don’t want men to control women’s bodies. Yes, majority of republicans making said laws are men. But they were voted in and are supported by a lot of women. And polls that generally ban abortions but allow for certain exceptions are fairly close to a 50/50 gender split. Therefore I don’t see calling abortion laws as men trying to control a women’s body as accurate. If that were the case then women wouldn’t make up a significant portion of the pro-life movement.
    It really just comes down to does the rights of the unborn child supersede that of the mother, or do the mother’s rights supersede the unborn baby? Not if you believe in old white guys then you’re against abortion. Every single person I’ve ever had a genuine conversation about this topic with it has come down to that.

    Look at the states passing the laws,  then look at the republican party legislative bodies in those states. You will see them as overwhelmingly male.  That's the point of the statement around men passing these laws.  You can't just look at the country as a whole and say,  look there are just as many women serving office so it must not be men driving these laws.  Well these laws aren't across the country,  they are in certain states.  

    No offense Mace, but you're kind of picking some strange arguments here the last few days.  
    There aren’t as many women serving as men. I didn’t say there were Never has been for any political party.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,824
    I guess we’ll have to disagree. To me it doesn’t make sense that abortion laws are about restricting women when nearly half of the supporters are women. It makes more sense to believe what they claim, and that is they believe a fetus is a life deserving of rights. That makes sense. Of course those views are influenced by church and politics.
    I’m not trying to pick strange arguments. It just frustrates me when everything creates more division and leads to more hate among our own country. The left should recognize it’s not about controlling women, for the reasons I just stated. The right needs to recognize late term abortions are actually pretty rare and it’s not used as just another form of birth control. People are waking into the clinic 1 week before the due date because they changed their mind. Maybe we’d get some common ground if everyone could see that.
  • Cropduster-80
    Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    Common ground is important as is compromising 

    skills I don’t believe that survive today in politics 
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,455
    Cropduster-80 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    A lot of that polling you have to look into the data a bit.  If 54% of women are pro choice for example it looks pretty even.  However when asked should Roe be overturned it’s 2/3 say or 66% say no. 

    There are pro life people and pro choice people… there are also a lot of  people who are against abortion morally but who also don’t want the government deciding that question so capturing the pro choice light crowd is harder to capture 


    My wife is one.  She would never ever have an abortion under any circumstance and is morally opposed to it.  She also doesn’t want her views forced on others.  I consider her pro choice, she considers herself pro life.  When your personal views are separate from the legal argument a lot of people self identify with their personal view

    If you look at the makeup of a lot of these statehouses it’s still overwhelmingly men.  That’s where these laws are passed. Same can be said for all the anti gay laws.  It’s not like there is a lot of gay lawmakers voting for this stuff

    my wife is another. exact same stance. that's the essence of pro choice. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,844
    mace1229 said:
    I guess we’ll have to disagree. To me it doesn’t make sense that abortion laws are about restricting women when nearly half of the supporters are women. It makes more sense to believe what they claim, and that is they believe a fetus is a life deserving of rights. That makes sense. Of course those views are influenced by church and politics.
    I’m not trying to pick strange arguments. It just frustrates me when everything creates more division and leads to more hate among our own country. The left should recognize it’s not about controlling women, for the reasons I just stated. The right needs to recognize late term abortions are actually pretty rare and it’s not used as just another form of birth control. People are waking into the clinic 1 week before the due date because they changed their mind. Maybe we’d get some common ground if everyone could see that.


    If the right cared about coming together, there would be huge resources thrown at supporting pregnant females who are most likely to have abortions ( minority and young). States with the aggressive abortion bans  of late like Texas -  would they ever have generous programs educating women to take pregnancies to term, guaranteeing all support, healthcare, childcare for the new life, even adoption programs for those who are not ready for parenthoood, so young pregnant women all feel like a valued member of the community with its arms outstretched ready to help support these pregnancies after birth no matter what?

    But we know this is not how these aggressive states operate. The truth is they treat these pregnant females like criminals, and they are in the precipice of scaring them into back alleys looking for the nearest dry cleaner. “Do not expect us to pay one penny because you are young and poor and had premarital sex” is the message.

    Although I agree white women are very much to blame for the SCOTUS moving 6-3 conservative during the trump years, this is all about men and extremists like ACB wanting to control women’s sexual activity
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    Cropduster-80 said:
    mace1229 said:
    brianlux said:
    Bentleyspop said:
    A must watch and share...



    Right on. 
    We men need to stand up for women and say, "Enough of this bullshit. We're not in favor of taking away a woman's right to choose.  Were not going to let this happen." 
    I don’t see why I keep seeing this as men taking away womens rights. On most polls I’ve seen, the split between men and women being against abortion is around 5%. Pretty close to half and half.
    A lot of that polling you have to look into the data a bit.  If 54% of women are pro choice for example it looks pretty even.  However when asked should Roe be overturned it’s 2/3 say or 66% say no. 

    There are pro life people and pro choice people… there are also a lot of  people who are against abortion morally but who also don’t want the government deciding that question so capturing the pro choice light crowd is harder to capture 


    My wife is one.  She would never ever have an abortion under any circumstance and is morally opposed to it.  She also doesn’t want her views forced on others.  I consider her pro choice, she considers herself pro life.  When your personal views are separate from the legal argument a lot of people self identify with their personal view

    If you look at the makeup of a lot of these statehouses it’s still overwhelmingly men.  That’s where these laws are passed. Same can be said for all the anti gay laws.  It’s not like there is a lot of gay lawmakers voting for this stuff

    my wife is another. exact same stance. that's the essence of pro choice. 
    These are the best stances yet.  That was my point all along.  I was pregnant at 22 and engaged.  So when my son noticed that our anniversary obviously is before nine months I was able to say to him honestly that he was a CHOICE.  He wasn’t a mistake, nor did we even consider abortion.  Had I been 16 and alone I would have gone the adoption route.  I am against abortion for me.  It’s a free world so I get to choose and I don’t judge those who choose abortion, I’m not here to judge.  

  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,402

  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,255
    Rightward shift of both major parties?

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