Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

As far as half the country not agreeing with each other, I'm pretty sure that's not the case w/ the right to choose. 

As I understand it, 70% of Americans support the right to choose, and only 28% oppose. That's a pretty glaring gap. 

"not" should be in there...

No way there are that many people for it and this becomes a thing.

I see half the country as conservative and they usually, not always lean that way w abortion.

I just took a quick glance at Pew Research center (which I'm under the impression is a good source), it might be closer to 60%... I was going off memory, apologies for not researching first... if accurate though, 60-40 is still a pretty glaring gap. 

Merkin Baller

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

As far as half the country not agreeing with each other, I'm pretty sure that's not the case w/ the right to choose. 

As I understand it, 70% of Americans support the right to choose, and only 28% oppose. That's a pretty glaring gap. 

"not" should be in there...

No way there are that many people for it and this becomes a thing.

I see half the country as conservative and they usually, not always lean that way w abortion.

I just took a quick glance at Pew Research center (which I'm under the impression is a good source), it might be closer to 60%... I was going off memory, apologies for not researching first... if accurate though, 60-40 is still a pretty glaring gap. 

According to this, 70% of Americans do not want to see RvW overturned. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/17/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/

I knew I didn't come up with that # out of thin air. 

The Juggler

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-americans-really-think-about-abortion/

It may be hard to know how most people really feel about abortion, but one important takeaway from this data is that the vast majority of Americans — somewhere between 85 and 90 percent, according to most polls — think abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances. Total bans on abortion, which have now passed in three states, are popular only with a small sliver of the public. 

tempo_n_groove

The Juggler said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-americans-really-think-about-abortion/

It may be hard to know how most people really feel about abortion, but one important takeaway from this data is that the vast majority of Americans — somewhere between 85 and 90 percent, according to most polls — think abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances. Total bans on abortion, which have now passed in three states, are popular only with a small sliver of the public. 

Yes, that one is very telling.  One is on the books where even rape and incest won't be able to get abortions.

These same people whom are against it should be adopting at one hell of a pace...

tempo_n_groove

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

As far as half the country not agreeing with each other, I'm pretty sure that's not the case w/ the right to choose. 

As I understand it, 70% of Americans support the right to choose, and only 28% oppose. That's a pretty glaring gap. 

"not" should be in there...

No way there are that many people for it and this becomes a thing.

I see half the country as conservative and they usually, not always lean that way w abortion.

I just took a quick glance at Pew Research center (which I'm under the impression is a good source), it might be closer to 60%... I was going off memory, apologies for not researching first... if accurate though, 60-40 is still a pretty glaring gap. 

According to this, 70% of Americans do not want to see RvW overturned. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/17/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/

I knew I didn't come up with that # out of thin air. 

Still 60/40 split is closer than you'd think.  That is a swing away from going to the other direction.  That 70% not wanting to change is promising though.

Merkin Baller

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

As far as half the country not agreeing with each other, I'm pretty sure that's not the case w/ the right to choose. 

As I understand it, 70% of Americans support the right to choose, and only 28% oppose. That's a pretty glaring gap. 

"not" should be in there...

No way there are that many people for it and this becomes a thing.

I see half the country as conservative and they usually, not always lean that way w abortion.

I just took a quick glance at Pew Research center (which I'm under the impression is a good source), it might be closer to 60%... I was going off memory, apologies for not researching first... if accurate though, 60-40 is still a pretty glaring gap. 

According to this, 70% of Americans do not want to see RvW overturned. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/17/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/

I knew I didn't come up with that # out of thin air. 

Still 60/40 split is closer than you'd think.  That is a swing away from going to the other direction.  That 70% not wanting to change is promising though.

Bottom line, SCOTUS is acting against the will of the majority. 

bootlegger10

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

As far as half the country not agreeing with each other, I'm pretty sure that's not the case w/ the right to choose. 

As I understand it, 70% of Americans support the right to choose, and only 28% oppose. That's a pretty glaring gap. 

"not" should be in there...

No way there are that many people for it and this becomes a thing.

I see half the country as conservative and they usually, not always lean that way w abortion.

I just took a quick glance at Pew Research center (which I'm under the impression is a good source), it might be closer to 60%... I was going off memory, apologies for not researching first... if accurate though, 60-40 is still a pretty glaring gap. 

According to this, 70% of Americans do not want to see RvW overturned. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/17/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/

I knew I didn't come up with that # out of thin air. 

Still 60/40 split is closer than you'd think.  That is a swing away from going to the other direction.  That 70% not wanting to change is promising though.

Bottom line, SCOTUS is acting against the will of the majority. 

It is not the job of the SCOTUS to act on behalf of the majority.  That would be scary in a lot of situations.  The majority are not legal scholars either.  The majority comes into play by electing leaders to enact laws. 

tempo_n_groove

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

As far as half the country not agreeing with each other, I'm pretty sure that's not the case w/ the right to choose. 

As I understand it, 70% of Americans support the right to choose, and only 28% oppose. That's a pretty glaring gap. 

"not" should be in there...

No way there are that many people for it and this becomes a thing.

I see half the country as conservative and they usually, not always lean that way w abortion.

I just took a quick glance at Pew Research center (which I'm under the impression is a good source), it might be closer to 60%... I was going off memory, apologies for not researching first... if accurate though, 60-40 is still a pretty glaring gap. 

According to this, 70% of Americans do not want to see RvW overturned. 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/17/key-facts-about-the-abortion-debate-in-america/

I knew I didn't come up with that # out of thin air. 

Still 60/40 split is closer than you'd think.  That is a swing away from going to the other direction.  That 70% not wanting to change is promising though.

Bottom line, SCOTUS is acting against the will of the majority. 

That doesn't bother me.  The last 4 that were questioned all said that R vs W would not be touched.  

cblock4life

Yes, the fact that they (SC candidates) lied should also be an alarm for Americans.  

As for what people think about abortion, we are perfectly fine with a group of individuals other than ourselves deciding such a touchy subject.  But what everyone keeps missing (not here) is that whether you’re for or against abortion itself doesn’t mean that ANYONE has a right to tell us what to do with our bodies.  Men shouldn’t have even been part of this conversation which is what makes it even more crazy.  I don’t mean that to be an ass it just means it also applies that I shouldn’t have a say in what men do with their penises or where they put them as long as it’s consensual.   Edit: and legal 

Cropduster-80

Decision will be final in June.

if I was betting, PJ shows in KY, MO, TN, and OK won’t happen.  Pro choice is and has been central to PJ since the beginning.  They would be smart to avoid those states 

MO in particular as they are moving to criminalise their residents leaving the state to get an abortion.  So the entire premise of leaving the decision up to individual states will last about 2 minutes, then the red states will try to regulate the procedure across state lines by either a Texas style law to sue out of state entities in their state courts which technically they shouldn’t be allowed to due but that won’t stop them or to punish their residents who leave the states jurisdiction to get an abortion in a state where it’s legal 

NewJPage

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

Swinging back to conservatism? The country is far more conservative today than it was 50 years ago

Cropduster-80

NewJPage said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

Swinging back to conservatism? The country is far more conservative today than it was 50 years ago

Politics are more conservative the people aren’t.  That’s fundamentally the problem as most people aren’t that far to the right but the governing is that far right.  It’s a smaller hardcore group calling the shots for everyone.  Governing specifically to the base and no one else  which is probably 20-30 percent of your party and the rest of the party just sort of go along out of loyalty.  Then you get laws passed that basically only are really strongly supported by 1/4 of the population.  

7 of the last 8 presidential elections more people have voted for the democrats than the republicans, you wouldn’t notice though just based on policies 

NewJPage

Cropduster-80 said:

NewJPage said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Merkin Baller said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I am just hearing about the SCOTUS leak.

So when all of these Justices were at their hearings and said that R vs W was sanctimony and not to be messed with we were all lied to?

What else do they have cooking in the works?

Same sex marriage

Inter racial marriage
Griswold V Connecticut

You name it. 

"The inescapable conclusion is that a right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and traditions." is what Alito wrote. 

This logic could just as easily be applied to the civil rights and / or woman’s suffrage movement and any other progressive movement of the last 100 years. 

I really, really hope that the other things mentioned start happening but I very well can see the pendulum swinging back to conservatism.  You do have half a country that doesn't agree w each other...

Swinging back to conservatism? The country is far more conservative today than it was 50 years ago

Politics are more conservative the people aren’t.  That’s fundamentally the problem as most people aren’t that far to the right but the governing is that far right.  It’s a smaller hardcore group calling the shots for everyone.  

7 of the last 8 presidential elections more people have voted for the democrats than the republicans, you wouldn’t notice though just based on policies 

Those democratic presidents would have been moderate Republicans 50 years ago. The conception on what the role of government should be is not the same as it used to be. 

tbergs

Cropduster-80 said:

Decision will be final in June.

if I was betting, PJ shows in KY, MO, TN, and OK won’t happen.  Pro choice is and has been central to PJ since the beginning.  They would be smart to avoid those states 

MO in particular as they are moving to criminalise their residents leaving the state to get an abortion.  So the entire premise of leaving the decision up to individual states will last about 2 minutes, then the red states will try to regulate the procedure across state lines by either a Texas style law to sue out of state entities in their state courts which technically they shouldn’t be allowed to due but that won’t stop them or to punish their residents who leave the states jurisdiction to get an abortion in a state where it’s legal 

I really hope PJ doesn't punish the fan base for things they can't control and most likely also don't agree with. They took a stand for a good reason in 2016, but it wasn't handled well in regards to the fans. This time, do it right and make these shows opportunities to use their stature and Eddies voice to speak out against what's happening.

Eddie scrawling pro choice on his arm during Porch is forever a memory i will have when i hear that song. 

Cropduster-80

tbergs said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Decision will be final in June.

if I was betting, PJ shows in KY, MO, TN, and OK won’t happen.  Pro choice is and has been central to PJ since the beginning.  They would be smart to avoid those states 

MO in particular as they are moving to criminalise their residents leaving the state to get an abortion.  So the entire premise of leaving the decision up to individual states will last about 2 minutes, then the red states will try to regulate the procedure across state lines by either a Texas style law to sue out of state entities in their state courts which technically they shouldn’t be allowed to due but that won’t stop them or to punish their residents who leave the states jurisdiction to get an abortion in a state where it’s legal 

I really hope PJ doesn't punish the fan base for things they can't control and most likely also don't agree with. They took a stand for a good reason in 2016, but it wasn't handled well in regards to the fans. This time, do it right and make these shows opportunities to use their stature and Eddies voice to speak out against what's happening.

Eddie scrawling pro choice on his arm during Porch is forever a memory i will have when i hear that song. 

Reducing tourism and tax revenue for the states is how I see it, not punishing the fans. 

It’s inconvenient for fans sure, but it’s also inconvenient for all  the women who now have to fly to California.  And the state is able to do that directly or indirectly off of revenue PJ creates for them 

plus if MO says a California resident who gets pregnant in MO is subject to MO laws on abortion I bet she really would have rather not gone to that PJ show.  That has absolutely been floated in Missouri as a way to reach across state lines and extend their jurisdiction 

tempo_n_groove

Cropduster-80 said:

tbergs said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Decision will be final in June.

if I was betting, PJ shows in KY, MO, TN, and OK won’t happen.  Pro choice is and has been central to PJ since the beginning.  They would be smart to avoid those states 

MO in particular as they are moving to criminalise their residents leaving the state to get an abortion.  So the entire premise of leaving the decision up to individual states will last about 2 minutes, then the red states will try to regulate the procedure across state lines by either a Texas style law to sue out of state entities in their state courts which technically they shouldn’t be allowed to due but that won’t stop them or to punish their residents who leave the states jurisdiction to get an abortion in a state where it’s legal 

I really hope PJ doesn't punish the fan base for things they can't control and most likely also don't agree with. They took a stand for a good reason in 2016, but it wasn't handled well in regards to the fans. This time, do it right and make these shows opportunities to use their stature and Eddies voice to speak out against what's happening.

Eddie scrawling pro choice on his arm during Porch is forever a memory i will have when i hear that song. 

Reducing tourism and tax revenue for the states is how I see it, not punishing the fans. 

It’s inconvenient for fans sure, but it’s also inconvenient for all  the women who now have to fly to California.  And the state is able to do that directly or indirectly off of revenue PJ creates for them 

plus if MO says a California resident who gets pregnant in MO is subject to MO laws on abortion I bet she really would have rather not gone to that PJ show.  That has absolutely been floated in Missouri as a way to reach across state lines and extend their jurisdiction 

plus if MO says a California resident who gets pregnant in MO is subject to MO laws on abortion

No way in hell they can tell when that happened.  No way.  I wouldn't believe this to hold water in the lower courts not much less the larger circuits.

Cropduster-80

tempo_n_groove said:

Cropduster-80 said:

tbergs said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Decision will be final in June.

if I was betting, PJ shows in KY, MO, TN, and OK won’t happen.  Pro choice is and has been central to PJ since the beginning.  They would be smart to avoid those states 

MO in particular as they are moving to criminalise their residents leaving the state to get an abortion.  So the entire premise of leaving the decision up to individual states will last about 2 minutes, then the red states will try to regulate the procedure across state lines by either a Texas style law to sue out of state entities in their state courts which technically they shouldn’t be allowed to due but that won’t stop them or to punish their residents who leave the states jurisdiction to get an abortion in a state where it’s legal 

I really hope PJ doesn't punish the fan base for things they can't control and most likely also don't agree with. They took a stand for a good reason in 2016, but it wasn't handled well in regards to the fans. This time, do it right and make these shows opportunities to use their stature and Eddies voice to speak out against what's happening.

Eddie scrawling pro choice on his arm during Porch is forever a memory i will have when i hear that song. 

Reducing tourism and tax revenue for the states is how I see it, not punishing the fans. 

It’s inconvenient for fans sure, but it’s also inconvenient for all  the women who now have to fly to California.  And the state is able to do that directly or indirectly off of revenue PJ creates for them 

plus if MO says a California resident who gets pregnant in MO is subject to MO laws on abortion I bet she really would have rather not gone to that PJ show.  That has absolutely been floated in Missouri as a way to reach across state lines and extend their jurisdiction 

plus if MO says a California resident who gets pregnant in MO is subject to MO laws on abortion

No way in hell they can tell when that happened.  No way.  I wouldn't believe this to hold water in the lower courts not much less the larger circuits.

That law is in committee now in Missouri.  I think it’s like “reasonable suspicion” a child was conceived in Missouri then they look into it. As to criminal or civil (like the Texas law) no idea.  Point being they are trying to figure out how to extend their reach by any means necessary

Legality aside, it’ll take a long time to sort out.  The Texas law is absurd but that’s still in effect, for example 

tempo_n_groove

Cropduster-80 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Cropduster-80 said:

tbergs said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Decision will be final in June.

if I was betting, PJ shows in KY, MO, TN, and OK won’t happen.  Pro choice is and has been central to PJ since the beginning.  They would be smart to avoid those states 

MO in particular as they are moving to criminalise their residents leaving the state to get an abortion.  So the entire premise of leaving the decision up to individual states will last about 2 minutes, then the red states will try to regulate the procedure across state lines by either a Texas style law to sue out of state entities in their state courts which technically they shouldn’t be allowed to due but that won’t stop them or to punish their residents who leave the states jurisdiction to get an abortion in a state where it’s legal 

I really hope PJ doesn't punish the fan base for things they can't control and most likely also don't agree with. They took a stand for a good reason in 2016, but it wasn't handled well in regards to the fans. This time, do it right and make these shows opportunities to use their stature and Eddies voice to speak out against what's happening.

Eddie scrawling pro choice on his arm during Porch is forever a memory i will have when i hear that song. 

Reducing tourism and tax revenue for the states is how I see it, not punishing the fans. 

It’s inconvenient for fans sure, but it’s also inconvenient for all  the women who now have to fly to California.  And the state is able to do that directly or indirectly off of revenue PJ creates for them 

plus if MO says a California resident who gets pregnant in MO is subject to MO laws on abortion I bet she really would have rather not gone to that PJ show.  That has absolutely been floated in Missouri as a way to reach across state lines and extend their jurisdiction 

plus if MO says a California resident who gets pregnant in MO is subject to MO laws on abortion

No way in hell they can tell when that happened.  No way.  I wouldn't believe this to hold water in the lower courts not much less the larger circuits.

That law is in committee now in Missouri.  I think it’s like “reasonable suspicion” a child was conceived in Missouri then they look into it. As to criminal or civil (like the Texas law) no idea.  Point being they are trying to figure out how to extend their reach by any means necessary

Legality aside, it’ll take a long time to sort out.  The Texas law is absurd but that’s still in effect, for example 

I can see how the Texas law is still there.  It still lets you get an abortion within a time frame.  What you stated has a state guessing?  Proving when and where you got pregnant?

Fuck no that ain't going to hold up.  No damn way.  ACLU are licking their lips on that one right now.

It is indeed scary that the tentacles are reaching out that far, holy cow...  

cblock4life

When EV was at Pilgrimage Festival in TN he got down on one knee when he came out in support of Kaepernick when it first started.  The response in the audience was a bit chilly and as we clapped our support we didn’t get too many others joining in.  I’m not sure what they’ll do but either way they’ll be asses to some and not others regardless.  Abortion is a no win situation no matter how you look at it.  If I’m for it my mind says will I feel guilt forever if I ever have to go thru it or is it a split second decision that we don’t dare think about what may follow.  This is what I mean about it’s a right to decide issue and that right belongs to woman only so why take the ONLY thing that belongs only to us away. 

cblock4life

However, I do believe that if a man wants the baby that his feelings should be taken into consideration for adoption purposes and a woman should not be thought less of if she gives full custody and all her future involvement over to the father.  Old enough to have sex then you’re old enough to have these conversations.