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Sexual Misconduct in Politics

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  • PP193448PP193448 Springboro, OHPosts: 4,123
    It’s kinda ridiculous for anyone to be sided either liberal or conservative on issues of sexual harassment and abuse.  It really is everywhere.
    Politics—JFK, Bill Clinton, Trump, Franken, Moore, etc.  
    media— Oreilly, Lauer, etc
    Hollywood— Weinstein, etc.
    not to mention common work places.  
    Stop the insanity!!
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,366
    PP193448 said:
    It’s kinda ridiculous for anyone to be sided either liberal or conservative on issues of sexual harassment and abuse.  It really is everywhere.
    Politics—JFK, Bill Clinton, Trump, Franken, Moore, etc.  
    media— Oreilly, Lauer, etc
    Hollywood— Weinstein, etc.
    not to mention common work places.  
    Stop the insanity!!
    An article the other day was pointing out most sexual harassment allegations come from retail and food service industry. 
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 32,017
    Welp...garrison keillor now
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    PP193448 said:
    It’s kinda ridiculous for anyone to be sided either liberal or conservative on issues of sexual harassment and abuse.  It really is everywhere.
    Politics—JFK, Bill Clinton, Trump, Franken, Moore, etc.  
    media— Oreilly, Lauer, etc
    Hollywood— Weinstein, etc.
    not to mention common work places.  
    Stop the insanity!!
    Don't forget high schools.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,366
    Welp...garrison keillor now
    Wow. What’s jarring on a personal level is how we unconsciously create an image of what these people are like in their private life. Some people you know are dicks, but others you think cool, reasonable people.  
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    Welp...garrison keillor now
    Wow. What’s jarring on a personal level is how we unconsciously create an image of what these people are like in their private life. Some people you know are dicks, but others you think cool, reasonable people.  
    That's assuming the accusation is true, of course..... I don't think anyone has really left any room for the possibility in any of the ways that would matter for someone who is falsely accused, but that doesn't mean false accusations haven't and/or won't be laid against people.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 15,307
    Yes. As more and more of these allegations surface and as the terminations resulting from the allegations come quicker and quicker, the very real possibility of false accusations being made is growing. I hate to say it but it's true.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,366
    PJ_Soul said:
    Welp...garrison keillor now
    Wow. What’s jarring on a personal level is how we unconsciously create an image of what these people are like in their private life. Some people you know are dicks, but others you think cool, reasonable people.  
    That's assuming the accusation is true, of course..... I don't think anyone has really left any room for the possibility in any of the ways that would matter for someone who is falsely accused, but that doesn't mean false accusations haven't and/or won't be laid against people.
    True. I keep thinking how these aren’t union employees. Or if they are, the contract is pretty weak. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    edited November 2017
    JimmyV said:
    Yes. As more and more of these allegations surface and as the terminations resulting from the allegations come quicker and quicker, the very real possibility of false accusations being made is growing. I hate to say it but it's true.
    Yeah, I mean, I actually find myself hesitating to say such things out of "fear" of being accused of victim shaming or something - the mob is riled up and one has to tread carefully. But yes, of course, in mob situations like this false accusations are inevitable because everyone has almost completely taken this issue out of the hands of the justice system. The vast majority of these "cases" are being tried in the course of public opinion alone. I was talking a while back about how I felt there was something rather sinister and disturbing about this whole "movement" against pervs. I struggled then just as I do now when it comes to trying to put into words how I feel about it without coming off like I'm defending guilty parties. Just the fact that I feel like I have to tread so lightly in order to avoid that accusation, and also to still have people know I condemn sexual misconduct and worse and that there is positive side to all the attention this brings to the issue, kind of highlights my concern.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PP193448PP193448 Springboro, OHPosts: 4,123
    So here’s a question, completely hypothetical... just in case these kind of accusations spill into the home...
    If you grab your spouses ass without asking, and he/she doesn’t object, is that misconduct or just part of the marriage guidelines???  

    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 18,776
    PP193448 said:
    So here’s a question, completely hypothetical... just in case these kind of accusations spill into the home...
    If you grab your spouses ass without asking, and he/she doesn’t object, is that misconduct or just part of the marriage guidelines???  

    I've never asked for sexual favors in my marriage; they just sort of happen. On our first date, however, I did ask if I could kiss her at the end of the night.

    And if I grab, pinch or grope any part of my wife without asking, I'll know if it's misconduct by how many teeth I have left after I do so. Goddamn redheads don't play!
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,899
    Ron Burgundy must be a little worried right now
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 41,106
    Everyone else in this country is held to a higher standard than the president.....and a child molester in Alabama. 
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • JimmyV said:
    Yes. As more and more of these allegations surface and as the terminations resulting from the allegations come quicker and quicker, the very real possibility of false accusations being made is growing. I hate to say it but it's true.
    I'm also starting to wonder what is "unacceptable behavior"?

    I get running around naked can be viewed as funny or unacceptable but where is the line drawn?

    If I do something and everyone in the room but one person finds it funny is it unacceptable?
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 41,106
    JimmyV said:
    Yes. As more and more of these allegations surface and as the terminations resulting from the allegations come quicker and quicker, the very real possibility of false accusations being made is growing. I hate to say it but it's true.
    I'm also starting to wonder what is "unacceptable behavior"?

    I get running around naked can be viewed as funny or unacceptable but where is the line drawn?

    If I do something and everyone in the room but one person finds it funny is it unacceptable?
    Doesn't the company you work at have sexual harassment training?
    chinese-happy.jpg
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    edited November 2017
    JimmyV said:
    Yes. As more and more of these allegations surface and as the terminations resulting from the allegations come quicker and quicker, the very real possibility of false accusations being made is growing. I hate to say it but it's true.
    I'm also starting to wonder what is "unacceptable behavior"?

    I get running around naked can be viewed as funny or unacceptable but where is the line drawn?

    If I do something and everyone in the room but one person finds it funny is it unacceptable?
    Good questions - the other question that has to be asked is who, exactly, is determining the answers?? How hysterical are the people who can ruin lives, like corporate executives and people in the media? I hope more people finally start asking these kinds of questions, and that this wave of mob hysteria is coming to a close so that we can think about this whole issue more critically. I feel like right now people are still more focused on burning the accused at the stake than they are about the underlying problems that lead so many people to act this way or about all the people, mostly women, who have been and are suffering under the attitudes that create these circumstances. It isn't enough for people to stop behaving that way just because they are afraid of getting called out on it (better than nothing, but still). They should not behave that way because they aren't even compelled to do it in the first place. It's about respect, and usually about gender relations and power relations. And those issues connect to very complex things like social conditioning, sexuality, power dynamics in society, etc, and not just how it applies to famous and/or powerful people. What's going on now isn't helping that side of it IMO.... All I can hope for is that this is just the first step to something better. But I fear that this is just a flash in the pan, a distraction from Trump, and it will just fizzle and it will be back to business (sexual harassment and assault) as usual.

    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JimmyV said:
    Yes. As more and more of these allegations surface and as the terminations resulting from the allegations come quicker and quicker, the very real possibility of false accusations being made is growing. I hate to say it but it's true.
    I'm also starting to wonder what is "unacceptable behavior"?

    I get running around naked can be viewed as funny or unacceptable but where is the line drawn?

    If I do something and everyone in the room but one person finds it funny is it unacceptable?
    Doesn't the company you work at have sexual harassment training?
    I took it already and it's amazing at what is considered "harassment" hence why I asked the Funny for all but 1 question.


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    edited November 2017
    JimmyV said:
    Yes. As more and more of these allegations surface and as the terminations resulting from the allegations come quicker and quicker, the very real possibility of false accusations being made is growing. I hate to say it but it's true.
    I'm also starting to wonder what is "unacceptable behavior"?

    I get running around naked can be viewed as funny or unacceptable but where is the line drawn?

    If I do something and everyone in the room but one person finds it funny is it unacceptable?
    Doesn't the company you work at have sexual harassment training?
    I took it already and it's amazing at what is considered "harassment" hence why I asked the Funny for all but 1 question.


    So what was the answer to that question in your harassment seminar?

    I've taken the same kind of seminar at my work (union atmosphere). Harassment was defined as repeated unwanted behaviour as far as my work place is concerned, so one incident wouldn't be considered harassment in any case from what our human rights lawyer told us. That doesn't mean a one-time thing wouldn't be addressed, but it wouldn't be considered harassment.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,366
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 6,387
    I, for one, look forward to our future of ruling female overlords.



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  • wndowpaynewndowpayne Posts: 1,450
    Started a pool at work as to who will be named next..I went with Al Roker
    Charlottesville 2013
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    edited November 2017
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Didn't he mean that it is amazing what is included but he thinks shouldn't be? I would also argue that not everything that some might decide to call harassment is common sense at all, taking into consideration that it involves walking, talking human beings with personalities and emotions.
    For instance, I read some article the other day (can't remember source) that surveyed people in the UK, and some of the women actually considered a male peer at work simply asking them to go for a drink after hours to be sexual harassment. Sometimes this shit can get out of hand in both directions.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,366
    PJ_Soul said:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Didn't he mean that it is amazing what is included but he thinks shouldn't be? I would also argue that not everything that some might decide to call harassment is common sense at all, taking into consideration that it involves walking, talking human beings with personalities and emotions.
    For instance, I read some article the other day (can't remember source) that surveyed people in the UK, and some of the women actually considered a male peer at work simply asking them to go for a drink after hours to be sexual harassment. Sometimes this shit can get out of hand in both directions.
    I guess for me personally it seems like common sense. You have the HR definition, and you have the general public definition. These obviously don’t align all the time. Asking a co-worker for a drink/date isn’t harassment in that isolated situation. It could be a component of harassment depending on the work relationship and what’s happened before and after. It’s certainly no easy task to sort through in a lot of situations. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    edited November 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Didn't he mean that it is amazing what is included but he thinks shouldn't be? I would also argue that not everything that some might decide to call harassment is common sense at all, taking into consideration that it involves walking, talking human beings with personalities and emotions.
    For instance, I read some article the other day (can't remember source) that surveyed people in the UK, and some of the women actually considered a male peer at work simply asking them to go for a drink after hours to be sexual harassment. Sometimes this shit can get out of hand in both directions.
    I guess for me personally it seems like common sense. You have the HR definition, and you have the general public definition. These obviously don’t align all the time. Asking a co-worker for a drink/date isn’t harassment in that isolated situation. It could be a component of harassment depending on the work relationship and what’s happened before and after. It’s certainly no easy task to sort through in a lot of situations. 
    Well right, that's kind of the point. There are real grey areas that really are not covered by common sense. With only a few exceptions it is impossible to draw solid lines here. As you say, a lot of things depend on the specific relationships between the people, the dynamics of the office and its hierarchy, personal/work/relationship histories, tone, etc etc etc. That's why it is so problematic that the mob rules this issue right now - it leaves the door way too open for false accusations and/or faulty interpretations of behaviour on the part of the accuser. Yes, you would think that common sense would rule.... but unfortunately it doesn't in a lot of cases, and that's the problem!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Actually no, it's not.

    If you are overheard having a conversation you can be accused of harassment.  

    PJ souls avatar can be viewed as offensive... 

    We may be entering a world of where you have to be sterile in an open environment.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    edited November 2017
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Actually no, it's not.

    If you are overheard having a conversation you can be accused of harassment.  

    PJ souls avatar can be viewed as offensive... 

    We may be entering a world of where you have to be sterile in an open environment.
    Yeah, and we can't allow things to move in that direction, where people have to turn off their personalities, avoid friendships, censor themselves constantly out of fear. That sounds like a horrible, Orwellian nightmare to me. We can't just bow to the pressure put on us by fucking idiots who operate on a constant moral trip wire. We still have to keep in mind that someone being offended does not necessarily mean we need to be sensitive to their reaction. Sometimes they just need to fucking be offended while nobody else gives a shit that they are, because they're idiots.
    But seriously, what could possibly be offensive about "duck"?? =):lol:
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,899
    As more details come out about Matt Lauer, it seems to me there needs to be a widespread housecleaning of upper management at NBC.  
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,366
    I’m not sure what you mean by “amazing”. Everything considered harassment seems pretty common sense avoid doing in a work setting. 
    Actually no, it's not.

    If you are overheard having a conversation you can be accused of harassment.  

    PJ souls avatar can be viewed as offensive... 

    We may be entering a world of where you have to be sterile in an open environment.
    You can be accused, but that doesn’t mean it is. I guess that’s where I’m going with this. That’s why ‘ongoing’ is part of the definition. If a behavior is deemed inappropriate and the person doing it is dealt with, but then continues it, then you can have harassment. The thing with politics, there is no boss, there isn’t really a firing process, and there isn’t really a clear disciplinary process. 

    What I mean by common sense is that if you’re at work and doing something where you can read that others are uncomfortable with it, then it’s probably a good idea to stop doing it. I adjust my behavior all the time based on the setting and it’s not hard for me to do. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,264
    edited November 2017
    Yeah, that's the problem - right now, it doesn't seem like anyone cares about the viability of the accusations. People are getting fired, shows are getting pulled, and contracts are apparently being torn up just at the first hint of an accusation at this point. When the guy is actually scum then that's great, but what about when he's not?? I feel like good guys are at risk right now. I really am glad this problem in our society is being highlighted - really glad, even though I feel a little galled and bitter about the fact that we've all been saying this is going on for centuries and nobody fucking cared at all until Weinstein was shown to be a pervert and suddenly everyone decided to be a sexual misconduct warrior, almost like caring about the fact that women all over are being harassed and abused in every walk of life is just a fad. It's like the anti-sexual misconduct version of fidget spinners or Pokemon Go.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thread title should be changed to “in society.” Where are the pastors?

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