John McCain

fife

Meltdown99 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

fife said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/mccain-support-war-716416/

very interesting article but to be honest, I do get tired of people blaming him for trump because he picked Palin.  the Blame for Trump should be placed squarely on the public and no one else.

The blame for Trump should be on his parents for not aborting him.

yikes

I do not not know anything about Trumps parents ... nothing about the Trump family leads me to believe they were good parents, Trump behaves like he has never  heard the word no and was given whatever he wants...they are the worst parents.

calling someone the worst parents after saying you don't know anything about them is irrational. 

PJ_Soul

Yes, McCain fucked up really bad with Palin.... to an unforgivable extent, IMO, even if you do like war. I mean, his decision to have Palin by his side wasn't just a mistake, as he would have had you believe in later years. It was a very, very carefully thought out decision. He weighed all aspects, and went with the decision that was clearly bad for Americans as far as anyone with his intelligence is concerned, but thought it was still best for his chance of winning at the time (that part is the mistake). He sure didn't put America first as far as that goes... That is why I have raised doubts about his rejection of Trump. I think he showed us that he actually is willing to put his career and personal position before what's best for America, and it was only when he didn't have a future career anymore that he saw fit to actually do what's right (kinda).

That said, no, Trump is not McCain's fault, that's just silly. Trump is the fault of the voters. They are the ones who let Palin and everything that came after turn them dumb.

Gern Blansten

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, McCain fucked up really bad with Palin.... to an unforgivable extent, IMO, even if you do like war. I mean, his decision to have Palin by his side wasn't just a mistake, as he would have had you believe in later years. It was a very, very carefully thought out decision. He weighed all aspects, and went with the decision that was clearly bad for Americans as far as anyone with his intelligence is concerned, but thought it was still best for his chance of winning at the time (that part is the mistake). He sure didn't put America first as far as that goes... That is why I have raised doubts about his rejection of Trump. I think he showed us that he actually is willing to put his career and personal position before what's best for America, and it was only when he didn't have a future career anymore that he saw fit to actually do what's right (kinda).

That said, no, Trump is not McCain's fault, that's just silly. Trump is the fault of the voters. They are the ones who let Palin and everything that came after turn them dumb.

Yeah but at the time they were in a losing position.  Like no hope position.  They needed a "Game Changer" to even have a shot.

McCain got bad advice and unfortunately took it.  But he also knew that Palin was an idiot.  That's why she isn't invited to his funeral.

Drowned Out

Aaahhhh I guess WaPo sucks at whitewashing legacies...unreal.  Human rights champion?

PJ_Soul

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, McCain fucked up really bad with Palin.... to an unforgivable extent, IMO, even if you do like war. I mean, his decision to have Palin by his side wasn't just a mistake, as he would have had you believe in later years. It was a very, very carefully thought out decision. He weighed all aspects, and went with the decision that was clearly bad for Americans as far as anyone with his intelligence is concerned, but thought it was still best for his chance of winning at the time (that part is the mistake). He sure didn't put America first as far as that goes... That is why I have raised doubts about his rejection of Trump. I think he showed us that he actually is willing to put his career and personal position before what's best for America, and it was only when he didn't have a future career anymore that he saw fit to actually do what's right (kinda).

That said, no, Trump is not McCain's fault, that's just silly. Trump is the fault of the voters. They are the ones who let Palin and everything that came after turn them dumb.

Yeah but at the time they were in a losing position.  Like no hope position.  They needed a "Game Changer" to even have a shot.

McCain got bad advice and unfortunately took it.  But he also knew that Palin was an idiot.  That's why she isn't invited to his funeral.

McCain is smarter than that. He didn't just blindly take bad advice. I know that's what he claims. I just don't believe it for a second. That man did not just go around blindly taking bad advice, especially not when it involved the most important thing that ever happened to him. And yes, he put a "game changer" for his own success ahead of what was best for Americans. That was exactly my point.

jeffbr

PJ_Soul said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, McCain fucked up really bad with Palin.... to an unforgivable extent, IMO, even if you do like war. I mean, his decision to have Palin by his side wasn't just a mistake, as he would have had you believe in later years. It was a very, very carefully thought out decision. He weighed all aspects, and went with the decision that was clearly bad for Americans as far as anyone with his intelligence is concerned, but thought it was still best for his chance of winning at the time (that part is the mistake). He sure didn't put America first as far as that goes... That is why I have raised doubts about his rejection of Trump. I think he showed us that he actually is willing to put his career and personal position before what's best for America, and it was only when he didn't have a future career anymore that he saw fit to actually do what's right (kinda).

That said, no, Trump is not McCain's fault, that's just silly. Trump is the fault of the voters. They are the ones who let Palin and everything that came after turn them dumb.

Yeah but at the time they were in a losing position.  Like no hope position.  They needed a "Game Changer" to even have a shot.

McCain got bad advice and unfortunately took it.  But he also knew that Palin was an idiot.  That's why she isn't invited to his funeral.

McCain is smarter than that. He didn't just blindly take bad advice. I know that's what he claims. I just don't believe it for a second. That man did not just go around blindly taking bad advice, especially not when it involved the most important thing that ever happened to him. And yes, he put a "game changer" for his own success ahead of what was best for Americans. That was exactly my point.

McCain's first choice was a non-starter for him. He wanted to have (Independent-Democrat) Joe Lieberman as his running mate. That would have left him with zero traction in his own party. He also interviewed Romney at the time, who in hindsiight would have been a much better choice but wanted to play on his maverick reputation and was avoiding the obvious choices. Instead he was presented with Palin who was seen as a "maverick" on the state level just as he was on the national level. She countered McCain's old white guy image, and had even been part of a Vogue magazine feature. She was polling higher than Obama and Biden right after her selection. She was loved by Catholics and outspoken in her support of Israel. So she ticked a few important boxes. But she was such a newcomer, that they hadn't properly vetted her, and didn't realize that she'd come off more like Kelly Anne Conway than a VP candidate. In hindsight it was absolutely an atrocious decision. But at the time, before Tina Fey "And I can see Russia from my house", before her national media interviews (like Gibson and Couric), before anyone other than Alaskans knew her, she seemed like a reasonable choice. McCain placed a bet on a long shot and lost as soon as she opened her mouth.

PJ_Soul

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

Gern Blansten said:

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, McCain fucked up really bad with Palin.... to an unforgivable extent, IMO, even if you do like war. I mean, his decision to have Palin by his side wasn't just a mistake, as he would have had you believe in later years. It was a very, very carefully thought out decision. He weighed all aspects, and went with the decision that was clearly bad for Americans as far as anyone with his intelligence is concerned, but thought it was still best for his chance of winning at the time (that part is the mistake). He sure didn't put America first as far as that goes... That is why I have raised doubts about his rejection of Trump. I think he showed us that he actually is willing to put his career and personal position before what's best for America, and it was only when he didn't have a future career anymore that he saw fit to actually do what's right (kinda).

That said, no, Trump is not McCain's fault, that's just silly. Trump is the fault of the voters. They are the ones who let Palin and everything that came after turn them dumb.

Yeah but at the time they were in a losing position.  Like no hope position.  They needed a "Game Changer" to even have a shot.

McCain got bad advice and unfortunately took it.  But he also knew that Palin was an idiot.  That's why she isn't invited to his funeral.

McCain is smarter than that. He didn't just blindly take bad advice. I know that's what he claims. I just don't believe it for a second. That man did not just go around blindly taking bad advice, especially not when it involved the most important thing that ever happened to him. And yes, he put a "game changer" for his own success ahead of what was best for Americans. That was exactly my point.

McCain's first choice was a non-starter for him. He wanted to have (Independent-Democrat) Joe Lieberman as his running mate. That would have left him with zero traction in his own party. He also interviewed Romney at the time, who in hindsiight would have been a much better choice but wanted to play on his maverick reputation and was avoiding the obvious choices. Instead he was presented with Palin who was seen as a "maverick" on the state level just as he was on the national level. She countered McCain's old white guy image, and had even been part of a Vogue magazine feature. She was polling higher than Obama and Biden right after her selection. She was loved by Catholics and outspoken in her support of Israel. So she ticked a few important boxes. But she was such a newcomer, that they hadn't properly vetted her, and didn't realize that she'd come off more like Kelly Anne Conway than a VP candidate. In hindsight it was absolutely an atrocious decision. But at the time, before Tina Fey "And I can see Russia from my house", before her national media interviews (like Gibson and Couric), before anyone other than Alaskans knew her, she seemed like a reasonable choice. McCain placed a bet on a long shot and lost as soon as she opened her mouth.

I remember the whole thing like it was yesterday, and I disagree that she seemed like a reasonable choice, and I remember a whole bunch of people calling it right away. McCain's not that dumb... at best, he chose to ignore it because all he could see was the finish line. That's not the kind of person I can admire.

jeffbr

I'm certainly not defending his choice, and I didn't vote for him/them. I just mean it is a much clearer fail in hindsight. If your running mate is out-polling both of the players on the opposing ticket and is seen as a rising star, then it adds youth and appeal to what otherwise would have been a stodgy ticket. There were definitely worse choices he could have made, but not many. Had he picked Romney he might have made a better showing. But to blame McCain for Trump's rise because he picked Palin as a running mate is a dumb as blaming Dems for Trump because of the way they would demonize any reasonable GOP candidate (like a Romney), and because they put up one of the only people on the face of the earth who could have lost to Trump. The blame for Trump lies squarely on the non-voters, and the low-information voters who voted for him.

cincybearcat

When asked how he could reconcile being friends with John McCain and work with Fo and Trump, Lindsey graham said this...

“Asked by Bash how he squares his close friendship with McCain to his new relationship with Trump, Graham said, "If you know anything about me, I want to be relevant.”

straight up admits it. I hate politicians 

Bentleyspop

JC29856 said:

McCain was so crazed about killing, he killed even by accident!

https://prepareforchange.net/2017/09/11/navy-releases-mccains-records-mccain-was-personally-responsible-for-the-deadliest-fire-in-the-history-of-the-us-navy/

McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded

Prepareforchange??

That is some serious sky is falling,  earth is flat, end of the world lunacy.
Straight up cuckoo for cocoa puffs insanity

Guess we shouldn't be surprised considering the source

Halifax2TheMax

Bentleyspop said:

JC29856 said:

McCain was so crazed about killing, he killed even by accident!

https://prepareforchange.net/2017/09/11/navy-releases-mccains-records-mccain-was-personally-responsible-for-the-deadliest-fire-in-the-history-of-the-us-navy/

McCain was personally responsible for the deadliest fire in the history of the US Navy. That catastrophe, with 27 dead and over 100 wounded

Prepareforchange??

That is some serious sky is falling,  earth is flat, end of the world lunacy.
Straight up cuckoo for cocoa puffs insanity

Guess we shouldn't be surprised considering the source

D’ing, D’ing, D’ing goes the resident road kill skolar. Shoulda walked the cow instead of running it over and eating it.

unsung

PJ_Soul said:

Yes, McCain fucked up really bad with Palin.... to an unforgivable extent, IMO, even if you do like war. I mean, his decision to have Palin by his side wasn't just a mistake, as he would have had you believe in later years. It was a very, very carefully thought out decision. He weighed all aspects, and went with the decision that was clearly bad for Americans as far as anyone with his intelligence is concerned, but thought it was still best for his chance of winning at the time (that part is the mistake). He sure didn't put America first as far as that goes... That is why I have raised doubts about his rejection of Trump. I think he showed us that he actually is willing to put his career and personal position before what's best for America, and it was only when he didn't have a future career anymore that he saw fit to actually do what's right (kinda).

That said, no, Trump is not McCain's fault, that's just silly. Trump is the fault of the voters. They are the ones who let Palin and everything that came after turn them dumb.

Couldn't it just be a rejection of Hillary Clinton? Nah, couldn't be.

unsung

Sarah Palin, no matter what anyone here thinks of her, always stood by McCain even after the election.  She was hurt deeply when he said she was a mistake.

She also just received notice that she is not invited to the funeral.  Even in death McCain remains a sad and pitiful human being.

JC29856

unsung said:

Sarah Palin, no matter what anyone here thinks of her, always stood by McCain even after the election.  She was hurt deeply when he said she was a mistake.

She also just received notice that she is not invited to the funeral.  Even in death McCain remains a sad and pitiful human being.

I don't think Cindy wants her there for some reason, not sure why thou.

unsung

Well, that explains it.  Jealousy is a wicked game.

Gern Blansten

jeffbr said:

I'm certainly not defending his choice, and I didn't vote for him/them. I just mean it is a much clearer fail in hindsight. If your running mate is out-polling both of the players on the opposing ticket and is seen as a rising star, then it adds youth and appeal to what otherwise would have been a stodgy ticket. There were definitely worse choices he could have made, but not many. Had he picked Romney he might have made a better showing. But to blame McCain for Trump's rise because he picked Palin as a running mate is a dumb as blaming Dems for Trump because of the way they would demonize any reasonable GOP candidate (like a Romney), and because they put up one of the only people on the face of the earth who could have lost to Trump. The blame for Trump lies squarely on the non-voters, and the low-information voters who voted for him.

Exactly .. The goal was to win and they needed a curve ball 

Halifax2TheMax

cincybearcat said:

When asked how he could reconcile being friends with John McCain and work with Fo and Trump, Lindsey graham said this...

“Asked by Bash how he squares his close friendship with McCain to his new relationship with Trump, Graham said, "If you know anything about me, I want to be relevant.”

straight up admits it. I hate politicians 

Does that include Lindsey? Because he wants to stay, “relevant.”

https://money.cnn.com/2018/07/25/pf/coming-out-at-work/index.html

tbergs

I was visiting with some friends this last weekend who I've known and been friends with from elementary school and the topic turned to McCain. They both began talking about how much they respected him and how great he was. I mentioned how I had not been a fan of his in particular, but thought he had shown some good qualities, particularly when he stood up for Obama when he was being called a foreigner by the hardcore racist republican voters. The topic turned to when he ran for president and I was surprised to hear they had both voted for him in 2008. I brought up the Palin side of the argument and how he completely lost all respect when he chose her as a running mate. They stayed silent on that and our conversation moved on. It was clear that I was the minority after hearing they also voted Gary Johnson in 2016. I guess the point I am getting at, is that I remember vehemently being against McCain as president and had never been involved in so many arguments/discussions with people who supported him. It was worse than Bush because there was actually a great candidate, Obama, for once.

Ah darn, seems I monkeyed up the quote feature...

HughFreakingDillon

cincybearcat said:

When asked how he could reconcile being friends with John McCain and work with Fo and Trump, Lindsey graham said this...

“Asked by Bash how he squares his close friendship with McCain to his new relationship with Trump, Graham said, "If you know anything about me, I want to be relevant.”

straight up admits it. I hate politicians 

I understood that to mean he wanted to be involved. not in the limelight. 

HughFreakingDillon

unsung said:

Sarah Palin, no matter what anyone here thinks of her, always stood by McCain even after the election.  She was hurt deeply when he said she was a mistake.

She also just received notice that she is not invited to the funeral.  Even in death McCain remains a sad and pitiful human being.

I heard that and found that to be quite odd.