Taking a knee now in Europe

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

but standing for a national anthem is not, nor should it be, a requirement for any job. I think that's the difference.  you can't force patriotism as part of your company the same way you can force a uniform. one is a civil rights issue. one is not. 

Absolutely. I think it should be against the law to force an employee to do such a thing. No contract in the world should be allowed to insist upon it IMO, unless the job is literally that exact action. Like, if someone is getting paid specifically to stand for the anthem for some reason - I guess that might apply to a marching band that plays the anthem or someone who sings it or whatever.

brianlux

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

When anyone tells me I "should" do something, I am generally am prompted to go the other way. 

pjhawks

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

When anyone tells me I "should" do something, I am generally am prompted to go the other way. 

even an employer?  

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

When anyone tells me I "should" do something, I am generally am prompted to go the other way. 

even an employer?  

I haven't worked for an employer who uses the word "should" in a long time.  I'm self-employed.

But seriously, that word is overused.  When you tell someone, "You should do this or that" you are not going to get as good a response as you would if you said, "Have you considered doing this" or "You might do well to do that". 

OK, so what if you are in the military?  They don't say "should", they say "do it!" 

The word "should" generally sucks.    We might do well to strike it from our language.

mace1229

ed243421 said:

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

https://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/8_Rule5_Players_Subs_Equip_GeneralRules.pdf

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spin.com/2017/10/when-did-the-nfl-change-this-obscure-rule-about-standing-for-the-national-anthem?amp=1

NFL rule book

NFL policy manual for member clubs



I see a lot of "musts" regarding uniforms in the rule book

"Should" is just a suggestion

That is exactly what I read on the rule book. "Should" appears 12 times, and in each case is pretty obviously that it isn't a suggestion. The suggestions are listed as optional.
We all know cases when "should" is a requirement. You come late for work tomorrow and your boss says "you should always be here on time," are you going to take that as a suggestion? 
Its obviously it is used multiple times as a requirement in the NFL rule book as well.
All that being said, I just dont think the use of "should" is a defense.

pjhawks

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

When anyone tells me I "should" do something, I am generally am prompted to go the other way. 

even an employer?  

I haven't worked for an employer who uses the word "should" in a long time.  I'm self-employed.

But seriously, that word is overused.  When you tell someone, "You should do this or that" you are not going to get as good a response as you would if you said, "Have you considered doing this" or "You might do well to do that". 

OK, so what if you are in the military?  They don't say "should", they say "do it!" 

The word "should" generally sucks.    We might do well to strike it from our language.

have you considered that these players should be standing for the anthem? does that work for you?

brianlux

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

pjhawks said:

brianlux said:

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

When anyone tells me I "should" do something, I am generally am prompted to go the other way. 

even an employer?  

I haven't worked for an employer who uses the word "should" in a long time.  I'm self-employed.

But seriously, that word is overused.  When you tell someone, "You should do this or that" you are not going to get as good a response as you would if you said, "Have you considered doing this" or "You might do well to do that". 

OK, so what if you are in the military?  They don't say "should", they say "do it!" 

The word "should" generally sucks.    We might do well to strike it from our language.

have you considered that these players should be standing for the anthem? does that work for you?

LOL, sure! 

But that leads to the question, why should they stand for the anthem?  Why does it matter?  What if patriotism to a country isn't the most important thing to a player?  Perhaps making a statement about inequality and persistent racism is more paramount to some players than patriotism to a country.  Perhaps some player are more loyal and patriotic toward their planet and would be more than happy to stand during the playing of this anthem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33N8M6tQ4e0

ed243421

mace1229 said:

ed243421 said:

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

https://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/8_Rule5_Players_Subs_Equip_GeneralRules.pdf

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spin.com/2017/10/when-did-the-nfl-change-this-obscure-rule-about-standing-for-the-national-anthem?amp=1

NFL rule book

NFL policy manual for member clubs



I see a lot of "musts" regarding uniforms in the rule book

"Should" is just a suggestion

That is exactly what I read on the rule book. "Should" appears 12 times, and in each case is pretty obviously that it isn't a suggestion. The suggestions are listed as optional.
We all know cases when "should" is a requirement. You come late for work tomorrow and your boss says "you should always be here on time," are you going to take that as a suggestion? 
Its obviously it is used multiple times as a requirement in the NFL rule book as well.
All that being said, I just dont think the use of "should" is a defense.

We should just agree to disagree

mace1229

ed243421 said:

mace1229 said:

ed243421 said:

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

https://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/8_Rule5_Players_Subs_Equip_GeneralRules.pdf

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spin.com/2017/10/when-did-the-nfl-change-this-obscure-rule-about-standing-for-the-national-anthem?amp=1

NFL rule book

NFL policy manual for member clubs



I see a lot of "musts" regarding uniforms in the rule book

"Should" is just a suggestion

That is exactly what I read on the rule book. "Should" appears 12 times, and in each case is pretty obviously that it isn't a suggestion. The suggestions are listed as optional.
We all know cases when "should" is a requirement. You come late for work tomorrow and your boss says "you should always be here on time," are you going to take that as a suggestion? 
Its obviously it is used multiple times as a requirement in the NFL rule book as well.
All that being said, I just dont think the use of "should" is a defense.

We should just agree to disagree

Now I'm really confused. Are you suggesting or requiring that we do?

ed243421

It's only a suggestion that should not be enforced 

lastexitlondon

Interestingly i read that Formula 1 states all drivers must stand for the national anthems. 
Now this will be interesting on Sunday in austin because lewis Hamilton has clearly stated he is in agreement with kneeling and as the only driver who isn't white represents a lot of young peoples dream of becoming a top driver. He said he is not afraid of kneeling but won't think about it until yhe time... the powers that be won't be impressed but lewis is a hero here in England and it wouldn't suprise me if he knelt. 
Just a question . What kind of place is austin texas. Is that Trump territory? I shall open the popcorn and watch that space. Because it is a clear rule in formula 1  to stand!

lastexitlondon

'Will Hamilton take a knee?'

http://www.skysports.com/share/11088080