Taking a knee now in Europe

F Me In The Brain

Is that real?
People are awesome, sometimes.
Awesomely stupid, but so awesome.

dankind

"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

F Me In The Brain

War's over, man.  Wormer dropped the big one.

mace1229

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

lastexitlondon

We had a similar problem with u.e.f.a. may have been F.I.F.A
(Footballs governing body). For international games banning the wearing of an embroidered poppies on england shirts. So england wore black arm bands with a poppy on . Displaying any support for a cause was banned i think. Now its been reviewed and revised i think.

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play? Because that of course wouldnt include code of conduct and dress requirements, etc. Those are policies. 
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issues.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not? So if the NFL has a "policy" about standing, how is that not a rule, and therefore should be enforced?

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play?
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issue.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not?

depends, obviously, what the policy reads. but goodell and the owners have stated repeatedly it's up the players. 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play?
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issue.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not?

depends, obviously, what the policy reads. but goodell and the owners have stated repeatedly it's up the players. 

Thats fine, then take it out of the policy.
But what I dont get is I'm not allowed to protest while on the job or wearing my uniform. Government has no civil rights protecting free speech from your employer. Only against government infringing on your free speech, your employer can require pretty much whatever as long as it doesnt inhibit your religious beliefs or something.
I can't go march in protest of Trump while on the clock wearing my uniform. That's pretty much what the NFL is doing.

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play? Because that of course wouldnt include code of conduct and dress requirements, etc. Those are policies. 
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issues.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not? So if the NFL has a "policy" about standing, how is that not a rule, and therefore should be enforced?

For whatever reason, the NFL has two separates codes, so to speak - a rule book and a policy book. They differentiate between them and have clearly said that the policy around the anthem is not a rule and they aren't at this time prepared to make it a rule. 

For what it's worth, I just quickly looked up the difference between policy and rule, and generically it seems to say that a policy guides business practices whereas a rule is more along the lines of a law. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. 

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play? Because that of course wouldnt include code of conduct and dress requirements, etc. Those are policies. 
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issues.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not? So if the NFL has a "policy" about standing, how is that not a rule, and therefore should be enforced?

For whatever reason, the NFL has two separates codes, so to speak - a rule book and a policy book. They differentiate between them and have clearly said that the policy around the anthem is not a rule and they aren't at this time prepared to make it a rule. 

For what it's worth, I just quickly looked up the difference between policy and rule, and generically it seems to say that a policy guides business practices whereas a rule is more along the lines of a law. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. 

What I was able to read is it is not in the NFL rule book. The rule book only impacts the game of play. That is pretty much what I assumed to begin with.
It is in a policy given to every team which includes things like a code of conduct. Those don;t impact the game of play, but are a set of guidelines players and teams are expected to follow both in and out of the game.
So I just don't see the difference in claiming it a rule or policy as a defense. The only argument is since it isn't a rule you can't get penalized in the game for it, so you can't penalize a team 10 yards because they had less people stand. But I don't see why you can't suspend or bench players for not following NFL policy that happened prior to a game. NFL players have been suspended, fined and fired for off the field behavior before. Happens all the time.
And besides, I don't know anyone who is allowed to protest while on the job. Why are NFL players so special and unique?

dankind

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play? Because that of course wouldnt include code of conduct and dress requirements, etc. Those are policies. 
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issues.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not? So if the NFL has a "policy" about standing, how is that not a rule, and therefore should be enforced?

For whatever reason, the NFL has two separates codes, so to speak - a rule book and a policy book. They differentiate between them and have clearly said that the policy around the anthem is not a rule and they aren't at this time prepared to make it a rule. 

For what it's worth, I just quickly looked up the difference between policy and rule, and generically it seems to say that a policy guides business practices whereas a rule is more along the lines of a law. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. 

What I was able to read is it is not in the NFL rule book. The rule book only impacts the game of play. That is pretty much what I assumed to begin with.
It is in a policy given to every team which includes things like a code of conduct. Those don;t impact the game of play, but are a set of guidelines players and teams are expected to follow both in and out of the game.
So I just don't see the difference in claiming it a rule or policy as a defense. The only argument is since it isn't a rule you can't get penalized in the game for it, so you can't penalize a team 10 yards because they had less people stand. But I don't see why you can't suspend or bench players for not following NFL policy that happened prior to a game. NFL players have been suspended, fined and fired for off the field behavior before. Happens all the time.
And besides, I don't know anyone who is allowed to protest while on the job. Why are NFL players so special and unique?

Congress protests all the time on the job. On our fucking dime.

mace1229

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play? Because that of course wouldnt include code of conduct and dress requirements, etc. Those are policies. 
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issues.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not? So if the NFL has a "policy" about standing, how is that not a rule, and therefore should be enforced?

For whatever reason, the NFL has two separates codes, so to speak - a rule book and a policy book. They differentiate between them and have clearly said that the policy around the anthem is not a rule and they aren't at this time prepared to make it a rule. 

For what it's worth, I just quickly looked up the difference between policy and rule, and generically it seems to say that a policy guides business practices whereas a rule is more along the lines of a law. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. 

What I was able to read is it is not in the NFL rule book. The rule book only impacts the game of play. That is pretty much what I assumed to begin with.
It is in a policy given to every team which includes things like a code of conduct. Those don;t impact the game of play, but are a set of guidelines players and teams are expected to follow both in and out of the game.
So I just don't see the difference in claiming it a rule or policy as a defense. The only argument is since it isn't a rule you can't get penalized in the game for it, so you can't penalize a team 10 yards because they had less people stand. But I don't see why you can't suspend or bench players for not following NFL policy that happened prior to a game. NFL players have been suspended, fined and fired for off the field behavior before. Happens all the time.
And besides, I don't know anyone who is allowed to protest while on the job. Why are NFL players so special and unique?

Congress protests all the time on the job. On our fucking dime.

That's government. When have they ever been efficient?
But if the NFL doesn't have the right to require certain conduct from their players, then how and why do they fine and suspend players for off the field behavior?
They also have the right to allow protests if they wish, its their organization. And if they don;t want to require players to stand, then take it out of the policy. Then it doesn't even become a protest anymore when it isn't required and half the teams don;t even come out on the field anyway.
But where I see them getting into trouble is choosing when to enforce policy or not. Support one display and not another. Allow one group to break policy for one cause but then not another. So if they allow one protest they are going to have to allow any and all others that follow or face discrimination accusations. Do they really want to open up that can and be prepared for that?

pjhawks

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play? Because that of course wouldnt include code of conduct and dress requirements, etc. Those are policies. 
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issues.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not? So if the NFL has a "policy" about standing, how is that not a rule, and therefore should be enforced?

For whatever reason, the NFL has two separates codes, so to speak - a rule book and a policy book. They differentiate between them and have clearly said that the policy around the anthem is not a rule and they aren't at this time prepared to make it a rule. 

For what it's worth, I just quickly looked up the difference between policy and rule, and generically it seems to say that a policy guides business practices whereas a rule is more along the lines of a law. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. 

What I was able to read is it is not in the NFL rule book. The rule book only impacts the game of play. That is pretty much what I assumed to begin with.
It is in a policy given to every team which includes things like a code of conduct. Those don;t impact the game of play, but are a set of guidelines players and teams are expected to follow both in and out of the game.
So I just don't see the difference in claiming it a rule or policy as a defense. The only argument is since it isn't a rule you can't get penalized in the game for it, so you can't penalize a team 10 yards because they had less people stand. But I don't see why you can't suspend or bench players for not following NFL policy that happened prior to a game. NFL players have been suspended, fined and fired for off the field behavior before. Happens all the time.
And besides, I don't know anyone who is allowed to protest while on the job. Why are NFL players so special and unique?

tread lightly big guy. when i brought up they shouldn't do this in the workplace in the Kaepnernick thread it didn't go over well with some here.

and NFL players routinely get fined for ridiculous minor uniform violations.  right now it's just easier for the NFL and their owners to allow the players to do this.  

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play? Because that of course wouldnt include code of conduct and dress requirements, etc. Those are policies. 
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issues.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not? So if the NFL has a "policy" about standing, how is that not a rule, and therefore should be enforced?

For whatever reason, the NFL has two separates codes, so to speak - a rule book and a policy book. They differentiate between them and have clearly said that the policy around the anthem is not a rule and they aren't at this time prepared to make it a rule. 

For what it's worth, I just quickly looked up the difference between policy and rule, and generically it seems to say that a policy guides business practices whereas a rule is more along the lines of a law. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. 

What I was able to read is it is not in the NFL rule book. The rule book only impacts the game of play. That is pretty much what I assumed to begin with.
It is in a policy given to every team which includes things like a code of conduct. Those don;t impact the game of play, but are a set of guidelines players and teams are expected to follow both in and out of the game.
So I just don't see the difference in claiming it a rule or policy as a defense. The only argument is since it isn't a rule you can't get penalized in the game for it, so you can't penalize a team 10 yards because they had less people stand. But I don't see why you can't suspend or bench players for not following NFL policy that happened prior to a game. NFL players have been suspended, fined and fired for off the field behavior before. Happens all the time.
And besides, I don't know anyone who is allowed to protest while on the job. Why are NFL players so special and unique?

Congress protests all the time on the job. On our fucking dime.

That's government. When have they ever been efficient?
But if the NFL doesn't have the right to require certain conduct from their players, then how and why do they fine and suspend players for off the field behavior?
They also have the right to allow protests if they wish, its their organization. And if they don;t want to require players to stand, then take it out of the policy. Then it doesn't even become a protest anymore when it isn't required and half the teams don;t even come out on the field anyway.
But where I see them getting into trouble is choosing when to enforce policy or not. Support one display and not another. Allow one group to break policy for one cause but then not another. So if they allow one protest they are going to have to allow any and all others that follow or face discrimination accusations. Do they really want to open up that can and be prepared for that?

maybe the difference is that they aren't technically "on the job" until the game begins. I mean, maybe a bad example, but my kids aren't considered late for school until after the canadian anthem is done. 

I don't think it's going to work to really compare "on the job" in a sport played by men to any other job. it's an anomaly all unto itself that can't really be compared to any other career. 

if the anthem were played at my work every morning, and i was told I'd have to stand or be fired, damn straight I'd put up a fight. 

ed243421

The policy says players "should" stand

This isn't North Korea

mace1229

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

rgambs said:

pjhawks said:

vaggar99 said:

pjhawks said:

i'd like all you guys to go into work tomorrow and in the middle of a meeting take a knee. let's see how that goes over in your work place.  Protests don't belong in the work place.

i can't remember having to stand for the national anthem in my office.  but, my memory isn't so good anymore.  

no but the bosses makes the rules. that's one of the rules of their office. 

There's no rule against kneeling during the anthem.

Actually there is. NFL is pretty clear on it too, must stand and I think even says must hold your helmet in the left hand.
I'm not against the right to kneel if you are attending a game. But the players are at work, wear a uniform, and should be held to whatever expectations their employers have.
NFL has refused many other displays of free speech. They denied the right to wear a decal that honors slain cops. They have the right to do that. They have the right to demand you stand. 
What i think is messed up is to enforce one and not the other.

No, that's incorrect. There is no rule requiring players to stand during the anthem. The entire NFL rule book is online and it doesn't not include this. 

Where this is covered is in the policy manual, apparently. Policy is not considered a rule, and there has been extensive media coverage today of the fact that the NFL has declined to add a rule requiring that players stand for the anthem. 

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/2017/10/17/16465366/nfl-rule-change-stand-national-anthem-player-protests
 

So what is the difference between policy and rule?
By rule book do you mean rules for game of play? Because that of course wouldnt include code of conduct and dress requirements, etc. Those are policies. 
As far as I know a policy is a "rule." 
My work doesn't have a rule book, but an employee policy about dress and work times and a bunch of other things that if not followed I would face discipline issues.
My point is, a policy is a rule. Is it not? So if the NFL has a "policy" about standing, how is that not a rule, and therefore should be enforced?

For whatever reason, the NFL has two separates codes, so to speak - a rule book and a policy book. They differentiate between them and have clearly said that the policy around the anthem is not a rule and they aren't at this time prepared to make it a rule. 

For what it's worth, I just quickly looked up the difference between policy and rule, and generically it seems to say that a policy guides business practices whereas a rule is more along the lines of a law. I'm paraphrasing, obviously. 

What I was able to read is it is not in the NFL rule book. The rule book only impacts the game of play. That is pretty much what I assumed to begin with.
It is in a policy given to every team which includes things like a code of conduct. Those don;t impact the game of play, but are a set of guidelines players and teams are expected to follow both in and out of the game.
So I just don't see the difference in claiming it a rule or policy as a defense. The only argument is since it isn't a rule you can't get penalized in the game for it, so you can't penalize a team 10 yards because they had less people stand. But I don't see why you can't suspend or bench players for not following NFL policy that happened prior to a game. NFL players have been suspended, fined and fired for off the field behavior before. Happens all the time.
And besides, I don't know anyone who is allowed to protest while on the job. Why are NFL players so special and unique?

Congress protests all the time on the job. On our fucking dime.

That's government. When have they ever been efficient?
But if the NFL doesn't have the right to require certain conduct from their players, then how and why do they fine and suspend players for off the field behavior?
They also have the right to allow protests if they wish, its their organization. And if they don;t want to require players to stand, then take it out of the policy. Then it doesn't even become a protest anymore when it isn't required and half the teams don;t even come out on the field anyway.
But where I see them getting into trouble is choosing when to enforce policy or not. Support one display and not another. Allow one group to break policy for one cause but then not another. So if they allow one protest they are going to have to allow any and all others that follow or face discrimination accusations. Do they really want to open up that can and be prepared for that?

maybe the difference is that they aren't technically "on the job" until the game begins. I mean, maybe a bad example, but my kids aren't considered late for school until after the canadian anthem is done. 

I don't think it's going to work to really compare "on the job" in a sport played by men to any other job. it's an anomaly all unto itself that can't really be compared to any other career. 

if the anthem were played at my work every morning, and i was told I'd have to stand or be fired, damn straight I'd put up a fight. 

And I would argue if your company relied heavily on public image for success, and that was not the image they wanted then they'd have every right to "wish you the best in your future endeavors." 
To me thats like saying you don;t like the color brown so you refuse to wear the UPS uniform while working for them. You're on the job long before the game starts. You're on the field and in uniform. No player rolls up 2 minutes before kickoff, they are on the job.
You're right that it is an extreme comparisson to a normal job, but the NFL still has a right to control their image.

HughFreakingDillon

but standing for a national anthem is not, nor should it be, a requirement for any job. I think that's the difference.  you can't force patriotism as part of your company the same way you can force a uniform. one is a civil rights issue. one is not. 

ed243421

mace1229 said:

The word "should" appears 12 times in the official rule book in phrases like "The development of Playing Rules should be governed by this Article," and other times about what the jersey needs to look like. It is very specific on what is optional, and what "should" appear on the uniform.
So clearly "should" is not just a suggestion.

https://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/8_Rule5_Players_Subs_Equip_GeneralRules.pdf

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spin.com/2017/10/when-did-the-nfl-change-this-obscure-rule-about-standing-for-the-national-anthem?amp=1

NFL rule book

NFL policy manual for member clubs



I see a lot of "musts" regarding uniforms in the rule book

"Should" is just a suggestion