Our changing planet: What will we do?

PJfanwillneverleave1

brianlux said:

Houston.
Irma, Jose, Katia and more like them to follow.
Fires raging across the western U.S.
Second hottest year on record.
Global temperatures on the rise.

Obviously all this is telling us something, but what they're telling us is nothing new.  Scientists have seen this coming for decades.  What have the largest, most wealthy countries done about it?  Not much.

So what do we do now?  Throw up our hands, gnash our teeth, jump off a cliff?  Or be sensible and start acting?

What will we do now?

I think neither of those options will do anything.  Life is too short at a certain age to worry about what the planet is doing.

oftenreading

my2hands said:

I'll take a few birds smacking into a turbine over blowing the tops off of mountains

Hundreds of thousands of birds, and it's another ecosystem issue. What is the impact of a marked reduction in a variety of bird species, including impacts on their prey species (mostly insects) and species that prey upon them? I'm not going to pretend I know, but there will be one. Now, maybe it's a better impact than mining and burning coal, but that doesn't mean it's insignificant.

CM189191

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

I'll take a few birds smacking into a turbine over blowing the tops off of mountains

I would agree if the number of birds lost was small but the Audubon Society (  http://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds , among other sources) say that as many as 328,000 birds are killed each year in North America by wind turbines.  There are some efforts to reduce those numbers but that really is a lot. 

Removing mountain tops is certainly a big problem too.  Here's an excellent book on that subject:

counterpoint: Cats kill up to 3.7B birds annually

wind turbines kill 0.0088% the number of birds that cats do

brianlux

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

brianlux said:

Houston.
Irma, Jose, Katia and more like them to follow.
Fires raging across the western U.S.
Second hottest year on record.
Global temperatures on the rise.

Obviously all this is telling us something, but what they're telling us is nothing new.  Scientists have seen this coming for decades.  What have the largest, most wealthy countries done about it?  Not much.

So what do we do now?  Throw up our hands, gnash our teeth, jump off a cliff?  Or be sensible and start acting?

What will we do now?

I think neither of those options will do anything.  Life is too short at a certain age to worry about what the planet is doing.

Jesus, Joseph and Mary, how old do I have to be for that to happen? 

brianlux

CM189191 said:

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

I'll take a few birds smacking into a turbine over blowing the tops off of mountains

I would agree if the number of birds lost was small but the Audubon Society (  http://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds , among other sources) say that as many as 328,000 birds are killed each year in North America by wind turbines.  There are some efforts to reduce those numbers but that really is a lot. 

Removing mountain tops is certainly a big problem too.  Here's an excellent book on that subject:

counterpoint: Cats kill up to 3.7B birds annually

wind turbines kill 0.0088% the number of birds that cats do

I have read various statistics along those lines.  But there are ways of reducing the number of birds that cats kill including having indoor cats or putting a bell on the collars of outdoor cats. 

CM189191

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

brianlux said:

Houston.
Irma, Jose, Katia and more like them to follow.
Fires raging across the western U.S.
Second hottest year on record.
Global temperatures on the rise.

Obviously all this is telling us something, but what they're telling us is nothing new.  Scientists have seen this coming for decades.  What have the largest, most wealthy countries done about it?  Not much.

So what do we do now?  Throw up our hands, gnash our teeth, jump off a cliff?  Or be sensible and start acting?

What will we do now?

I think neither of those options will do anything.  Life is too short at a certain age to worry about what the planet is doing.

Fun fact: Baffin Island, Canada is home to Mount Thor, the world's tallest vertical cliff. In fact, it's steeper than vertical, with a 105-degree overhang.

That close to you by any chance?  

oftenreading

CM189191 said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

brianlux said:

Houston.
Irma, Jose, Katia and more like them to follow.
Fires raging across the western U.S.
Second hottest year on record.
Global temperatures on the rise.

Obviously all this is telling us something, but what they're telling us is nothing new.  Scientists have seen this coming for decades.  What have the largest, most wealthy countries done about it?  Not much.

So what do we do now?  Throw up our hands, gnash our teeth, jump off a cliff?  Or be sensible and start acting?

What will we do now?

I think neither of those options will do anything.  Life is too short at a certain age to worry about what the planet is doing.

Fun fact: Baffin Island, Canada is home to Mount Thor, the world's tallest vertical cliff. In fact, it's steeper than vertical, with a 105-degree overhang.

That close to you by any chance?  

Baffin Island isn't close to anyone.

But good thought

oftenreading

This is how much Mt. Thor  isn't close to anyone:

To say that Auyuittuq is off the beaten path is more than a small understatement. It is incredibly remote. From Pangnirtung one must take a 30km boat ride (or if the fjord is frozen one must use a snowmobile) to the park entrance at the head of the Akshayuk Pass (which was once known as the Pangnirtung Pass). The route cuts across the Cumberland Peninsula and is the main travel route year round, though most especially in winter.

The park entrance is located here at the head of the valley and here is located the one and only Ranger Station in the entire park. The Weasel And Owl rivers flow through the valley, and one has to ford the river as well as several runoff streams as you make your way along the valley floor.

The trail is marked by ‘Inukshuks’ which are man shaped cairns that are placed at distant but regular intervals so one doesn’t lose their way… though that is kind of hard to do. As the route only follows the valley to its terminus.

Thor is located about 20km from the park entrance and is a 4 hour hike past Windy Lake. Its closest neighbour is Mt. Breidablik which lies just to the south. There is a hut located near the base of the peak on the valley floor which can sleep 2-4 people.

brianlux

Speaking of not close to anything, in his marvelous book, Hunting the Hunters; At War With the Whalers, which tells of a few Sea Shepherd campaigns he was on that set out to stop illegal Japanese whaling, Laurens de Groot says:

"Pedro, quartermaster on the bridge, quotes an explorer whose name has slipped his mind. It captures our situation in a nutshell: 'Below 50 degrees south, there is no law.  Below 60 degrees south, there is no hope.  Below 70 degrees south, there is no God."

Later on in the book, de Groot reports, "Our position is 77° 53' S and 178°  03' W.  I'm unlikely to ever make it further south in my lifetime."

de Groot and company sailed to a Godless, remote part of the world to do amazing work toward reducing to the needless and illegal slaughter of these intelligent, incredible creatures.  Their efforts saved several hundred whales.  Pretty awesome! 

tempo_n_groove

I'm really curious as to why we haven't harvested the oceans power yet?  I have seen the tidal turbines that sit on top of the water but nothing about under water?

There is a constant ocean current that we could put to good use to push turbines.  

This has always baffled me.

CM189191

tempo_n_groove said:

I'm really curious as to why we haven't harvested the oceans power yet?  I have seen the tidal turbines that sit on top of the water but nothing about under water?

There is a constant ocean current that we could put to good use to push turbines.  

This has always baffled me.

Would underwater turbines harvesting energy from the tides be considered lunar power then?

tempo_n_groove

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I'm really curious as to why we haven't harvested the oceans power yet?  I have seen the tidal turbines that sit on top of the water but nothing about under water?

There is a constant ocean current that we could put to good use to push turbines.  

This has always baffled me.

Would underwater turbines harvesting energy from the tides be considered lunar power then?

I just googled it because I was curious and your definition matches the description I mentioned.

 http://www.lunarenergy.co.uk/

tempo_n_groove

New memo was leaked about shrinking some National Monuments and expanding others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interior-secretary-recommends-shrinking-6-national-monuments/2017/09/17/c9a82d5e-9c1d-11e7-b2a7-bc70b6f98089_story.html?utm_term=.0d383278a2e1

CM189191

tempo_n_groove said:

CM189191 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I'm really curious as to why we haven't harvested the oceans power yet?  I have seen the tidal turbines that sit on top of the water but nothing about under water?

There is a constant ocean current that we could put to good use to push turbines.  

This has always baffled me.

Would underwater turbines harvesting energy from the tides be considered lunar power then?

I just googled it because I was curious and your definition matches the description I mentioned.

 http://www.lunarenergy.co.uk/

seems like a no brainer

could also save on seafood processing costs

brianlux

An interesting idea here that could possible prevent the Yellowstone Caldera from wiping out humanity and at the same time provide an alternative energy source.  These question is, should we do this or should we let nature take its course?  To that, I think somewhere in between- we need to earn the right to remain a living species on this planet by showing that we care for it and not just our selfish, short-sighted greedy selves.

http://themindunleashed.com/2017/09/nasa-threat-humans.html

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

An interesting idea here that could possible prevent the Yellowstone Caldera from wiping out humanity and at the same time provide an alternative energy source.  These question is, should we do this or should we let nature take its course?  To that, I think somewhere in between- we need to earn the right to remain a living species on this planet by showing that we care for it and not just our selfish, short-sighted greedy selves.

http://themindunleashed.com/2017/09/nasa-threat-humans.html

jesus. 

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

An interesting idea here that could possible prevent the Yellowstone Caldera from wiping out humanity and at the same time provide an alternative energy source.  These question is, should we do this or should we let nature take its course?  To that, I think somewhere in between- we need to earn the right to remain a living species on this planet by showing that we care for it and not just our selfish, short-sighted greedy selves.

http://themindunleashed.com/2017/09/nasa-threat-humans.html

jesus. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPMKlEwrIs8

brianlux

Well that didn't work.  Try again...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_dbOYNtAJ8

tempo_n_groove

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/20/americas/mexico-earthquake-rescues/index.html

Nobody is commenting on the earthquakes in Mexico?!?

They are going to need help from us soon too.

CM189191

tempo_n_groove said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/20/americas/mexico-earthquake-rescues/index.html

Nobody is commenting on the earthquakes in Mexico?!?

They are going to need help from us soon too.

They're not paying for our wall.  We're not paying for their earthquake.

/ducks

PJ_Soul

tempo_n_groove said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/20/americas/mexico-earthquake-rescues/index.html

Nobody is commenting on the earthquakes in Mexico?!?

They are going to need help from us soon too.

Not sure what to say.... It's terrible for them, and seeing images of parents digging through the rubble of a collapsed school is heartbreaking. I just never thought of an earthquake as something related to the topic at hand I guess. Unless we're talking about fracking, earthquakes aren't something caused by humans or anything we can prevent. I guess if doing something about our changing planet includes building better buildings to withstand earthquakes it could relate.... Always good to keep up strict building codes! Mexico isn't exactly well-known for that.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/20/americas/mexico-earthquake-rescues/index.html

Nobody is commenting on the earthquakes in Mexico?!?

They are going to need help from us soon too.

Terrible- over 200 dead.  7.1 is massive.  You can tell by several of the photos that, as PJS_oul pointed out, a lot of those structures never stood a chance up against that kind of movement.  Sad.

CM189191

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/20/americas/mexico-earthquake-rescues/index.html

Nobody is commenting on the earthquakes in Mexico?!?

They are going to need help from us soon too.

Not sure what to say.... It's terrible for them, and seeing images of parents digging through the rubble of a collapsed school is heartbreaking. I just never thought of an earthquake as something related to the topic at hand I guess. Unless we're talking about fracking, earthquakes aren't something caused by humans or anything we can prevent. I guess if doing something about our changing planet includes building better buildings to withstand earthquakes it could relate.... Always good to keep up strict building codes! Mexico isn't exactly well-known for that.

I understand 1/2 Mexico City is built on a dry lake bed, which is where most of the damage is.  Maybe not the building codes, so much as the foundation it's on.

/all the Mexicans I know are very familiar with building codes

PJ_Soul

CM189191 said:

PJ_Soul said:

tempo_n_groove said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/20/americas/mexico-earthquake-rescues/index.html

Nobody is commenting on the earthquakes in Mexico?!?

They are going to need help from us soon too.

Not sure what to say.... It's terrible for them, and seeing images of parents digging through the rubble of a collapsed school is heartbreaking. I just never thought of an earthquake as something related to the topic at hand I guess. Unless we're talking about fracking, earthquakes aren't something caused by humans or anything we can prevent. I guess if doing something about our changing planet includes building better buildings to withstand earthquakes it could relate.... Always good to keep up strict building codes! Mexico isn't exactly well-known for that.

I understand 1/2 Mexico City is built on a dry lake bed, which is where most of the damage is.  Maybe not the building codes, so much as the foundation it's on.

/all the Mexicans I know are very familiar with building codes

I didn't say they aren't aware of building codes. I'm saying that they aren't necessarily adhered to in Mexico the way they are in some other places (just like with many other countries in the world). Also, more of their buildings are really old and not upgraded. The condition of the buildings is absolutely a factor here - not an opinion, but a fact.
And yes, the fact that it's built on a dry lake bed has an impact in that the composition of the earth beneath the city does not absorb the shocks of the earthquakes well at all, so that just makes it that much worse.

brianlux

A lot of it is poverty. Mexico is not a rich country.

kce8

This is not new.  Still unbelievable what we are doing. It's like using violence against the earth and oneself. 
So. Business is going down - looks like we have to do something.

"Indonesia is made up of more than 17,000 islands. The only country that dumps more rubbish into the sea than Indonesia is China. Indonesia has said it aims to reduce marine plastic waste by 70% by 2025, but looking at these pictures, it seems there is a lot more work to be done."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/42511483

rgambs

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

I'll take a few birds smacking into a turbine over blowing the tops off of mountains

I would agree if the number of birds lost was small but the Audubon Society (  http://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds , among other sources) say that as many as 328,000 birds are killed each year in North America by wind turbines.  There are some efforts to reduce those numbers but that really is a lot. 

Removing mountain tops is certainly a big problem too.  Here's an excellent book on that subject:

I don't think that is very many birds, there are estimated to be billions of breeding birds in North America.

brianlux

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

my2hands said:

I'll take a few birds smacking into a turbine over blowing the tops off of mountains

I would agree if the number of birds lost was small but the Audubon Society (  http://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds , among other sources) say that as many as 328,000 birds are killed each year in North America by wind turbines.  There are some efforts to reduce those numbers but that really is a lot. 

Removing mountain tops is certainly a big problem too.  Here's an excellent book on that subject:

I don't think that is very many birds, there are estimated to be billions of breeding birds in North America.

And billions of humans.  Lets knock off an extra 320,00 a year for no reason and see how that goes over!

brianlux

kce8 said:

This is not new.  Still unbelievable what we are doing. It's like using violence against the earth and oneself. 
So. Business is going down - looks like we have to do something.

"Indonesia is made up of more than 17,000 islands. The only country that dumps more rubbish into the sea than Indonesia is China. Indonesia has said it aims to reduce marine plastic waste by 70% by 2025, but looking at these pictures, it seems there is a lot more work to be done."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/42511483

Disturbing images!

brianlux

Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.