Our changing planet: What will we do?

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Comments

  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,027
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    For anyone living in the north-east part of North America, that a good idea.  They're expecting record cold in those parts.

    But of course, as we all know, local weather is not the same as global climate.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    brianlux said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    For anyone living in the north-east part of North America, that a good idea.  They're expecting record cold in those parts.

    But of course, as we all know, local weather is not the same as global climate.
    Most of us do, but I'm not so sure about the current occupant of the Oval Office.


    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,027
    jeffbr said:
    brianlux said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    For anyone living in the north-east part of North America, that a good idea.  They're expecting record cold in those parts.

    But of course, as we all know, local weather is not the same as global climate.
    Most of us do, but I'm not so sure about the current occupant of the Oval Office.


    I heard about that early today.  Good gawd that man is an idiot!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianlux said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    For anyone living in the north-east part of North America, that a good idea.  They're expecting record cold in those parts.

    But of course, as we all know, local weather is not the same as global climate.
    You think too highly of us, I'm afraid.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,027
    brianlux said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    For anyone living in the north-east part of North America, that a good idea.  They're expecting record cold in those parts.

    But of course, as we all know, local weather is not the same as global climate.
    You think too highly of us, I'm afraid.
    LOL.  I suppose your right!  Such a simple concept- yet we elect a man to be president who cannot differentiate between local climate and global weather.  Facepalm!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • kce8kce8 Posts: 1,636
    jeffbr said:
    brianlux said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    For anyone living in the north-east part of North America, that a good idea.  They're expecting record cold in those parts.

    But of course, as we all know, local weather is not the same as global climate.
    Most of us do, but I'm not so sure about the current occupant of the Oval Office.



    This guy is just disgusting!
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    brianlux said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    For anyone living in the north-east part of North America, that a good idea.  They're expecting record cold in those parts.

    But of course, as we all know, local weather is not the same as global climate.
    People keep stating that yet when there is a hurricane or a forest fire then hot damn local weather is damn sure the same as global climate. Now where did I put that sweater?!
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,027
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    For anyone living in the north-east part of North America, that a good idea.  They're expecting record cold in those parts.

    But of course, as we all know, local weather is not the same as global climate.
    People keep stating that yet when there is a hurricane or a forest fire then hot damn local weather is damn sure the same as global climate. Now where did I put that sweater?!
    You don't read my posts very closely do you, BS?  Tsk tsk!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    How cute, you're a denier.

    *shocked*

    lol
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    my2hands said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    How cute, you're a denier.

    *shocked*

    lol
    Nah...but I’ve published in a peer reviewed journal and am just not impressed by the religious dogma that is being substituted for scientific thought.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,027
    BS44325 said:
    my2hands said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    How cute, you're a denier.

    *shocked*

    lol
    Nah...but I’ve published in a peer reviewed journal and am just not impressed by the religious dogma that is being substituted for scientific thought.
    Omminie reekee ohhh nahhh ree!


    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    BS44325 said:
    my2hands said:
    BS44325 said:
    brianlux said:
    Back to the original question.  What will we do?  Probably not enough.  We ask questions like, "Is global warming real?" and too often we seek the answer that is most comfortable, that implies the least amount of effort, that requires no change in our behaviors, that eases our concerns.  Anything but the truth.  I grow weary and cynical of the whole rotten mess. 

    We are in another drought year in the west.  Fires are raging in winter. Last night  I dreamed about the drought.  The time was now, late December, and the weather warned to the point where what little bit of snow we've had was melting and the rivers were running with the melted off.  I dipped my feet into the river and considered that if I jumped in, these last waters would carry me away, far, far away.  I wish.
    I know what I'm going to do. Buy another sweater.
    How cute, you're a denier.

    *shocked*

    lol
    Nah...but I’ve published in a peer reviewed journal and am just not impressed by the religious dogma that is being substituted for scientific thought.
    You've never mentioned your field?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,950
    What Trump would do sure isn't a mystery.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-plan-would-reduce-environmental-requirements-for-infrastructure-projects/2018/01/26/b15bd66a-0248-11e8-8acf-ad2991367d9d_story.html?utm_term=.e8aa4791bc23&wpisrc=al_news__alert-politics--alert-national&wpmk=1

    White House plan would reduce environmental requirements for infrastructure projects


    President Trump speaks at an infrastructure meeting with mayors and governors at the White House in June. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
    By Juliet Eilperin and Michael Laris January 26 at 5:40 PM

    The White House has drafted a proposal to scale back environmental requirements in an effort to make it easier to construct roads, bridges and pipelines across the country as part of an infrastructure plan that President Trump could release as soon as next week, according to a document obtained by The Washington Post.

    The plan would change things such as how officials decide a pipeline route, how a proposed border wall with Mexico would be built and whether the National Park Service could object to a development that would impair tourists’ views from scenic parks such as the Grand Canyon.

    Administration officials — who have briefed GOP lawmakers, multiple trade associations and other groups about their plans — have emphasized they are willing to alter elements of the legislative package to win enough votes to pass it in the Senate. But they have made it clear they are seeking to make the most sweeping changes in decades to how the federal government approves and oversees infrastructure projects.

    “We have no intention of eroding environmental protections,” said Alex Hergott, associate director of infrastructure at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, when he addressed the Transportation Research Board’s annual conference earlier this month. “However, there is no denying that there is duplication and redundancy in the process that is worth taking a hard look at.”

    A White House official on Friday described the document as an earlier “discussion draft.” But individuals familiar with the plan said many of the proposals are still the basis for negotiations with lawmakers.

    “Smarter regulation doesn’t mean that we are abandoning our responsibility to the environment,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss ongoing internal deliberations.

    Trump identified an infrastructure bill as a top priority for his first 100 days in office, but it was delayed while he focused on bruising legislative battles over health care and tax cuts. Aides say the president will pitch his plan during next week’s State of the Union address and flesh out the details shortly afterward.

    Critics of the administration said the proposal, outlined in the document, would gut key environmental protections enshrined in laws dating back to the 1970s, such as the National Environmental Policy Act, the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act.

    “The administration’s legislative outline for infrastructure sacrifices clean air, water, the expertise of career agency staff and bedrock environmental laws,” National Parks Conservation Association President and CEO Theresa Pierno said in an email. “In short, the proposal reveals that this administration is not serious about restoring America’s infrastructure.”

    Trump has argued that voluminous environmental studies should be pared down to “a few simple pages,” and he has made broad declarations about how easy and productive the world would be without complex regulations.

    Now, his allies said, the administration is crafting proposals that will convert the president’s words into actions.

    “Clearly they are trying to get these things built more quickly. That can be done while maintaining the necessary environmental protections, because a lot of what holds this up is needless, duplicative review,” said Nick Goldstein, vice president of regulatory and legal issues at the American Road & Transportation Builders Association. “From now until at least 2020, there’s going to be somebody there considering regulatory reform.”

    The White House plan identifies many aspects of the current permitting process that lead to delays, including the fact that multiple agencies often weigh in on the same permit and that the federal government lacks resources to assess projects in a timely manner. To address this, it would make major changes in the arcane procedures that lie at the heart of federal oversight.

    New limits and deadlines would be imposed on federal agencies reviewing projects, and in some cases agencies — especially the Environmental Protection Agency — could be limited in their ability to weigh in on the permitting process.

    The dozens of proposals, many esoteric, are meant to amplify each other so they pack a bigger cumulative punch. One, for instance, would make it much easier for federal agencies to declare that certain projects have no significant impact on the environment and are not required to undergo further study. Such declarations — known as “categorical exclusions” — are already widely used, easing the approval of many highway and other projects.

    The Trump proposal would allow federal agencies to piggyback on other agencies’ decisions about the kinds of projects that should be exempt from deeper environmental study to “reduce duplication and unnecessary environmental analysis.” Another would exempt any of these rulings from judicial review under the Administrative Procedure Act, a law outside groups often use to challenge regulatory rollbacks.

    It would also expand the government’s ability to have private firms pay for the environmental reviews conducted by federal officials of their own projects. Any such change would “include appropriate controls for potential conflicts-of-interest.”

    Keith Benes, an environmental consultant who played a key role in overseeing TransCanada’s permit application for the Keystone XL pipeline as a State Department attorney-adviser, said in an interview that the document highlights some significant problems in the current system. But in almost every instance, he noted, it simply eliminates a legal requirement that delays federal approval for projects.

    “It’s not, ‘Let’s streamline it or make it more effective,” Benes said. “’It’s just, ‘Let’s get rid of that.’”

    In several instances the plan limits the extent to which the EPA can weigh in or block a project from going forward. In doing so, it could allow one particularly aggressive, pro-development corner of the federal bureaucracy set a standard for the government as a whole.

    The proposal would eliminate EPA’s ability to evaluate another agency’s Environmental Impact Statement, a power which it invoked during the Obama administration’s first term to stall approval of the Keystone XL pipeline. It also aims to “eliminate duplicative oversight” by abolishing EPA’s authority to “veto” a project on the grounds that it poses too grave a risk under the Clean Water Act.

    EPA used this authority in 2014 to block construction of a massive gold and copper mine near Alaska’s Bristol Bay. Under Trump, the EPA reached a settlement with the mine’s sponsor, Pebble Limited Partnership, and is now allowing the firm to apply for federal permits.

    ...................... ran out of space. See link.


    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,027
    PJ_Soul said:
    What Trump would do sure isn't a mystery.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-plan-would-reduce-environmental-requirements-for-infrastructure-projects/2018/01/26/b15bd66a-0248-11e8-8acf-ad2991367d9d_story.html?utm_term=.e8aa4791bc23&wpisrc=al_news__alert-politics--alert-national&wpmk=1

    White House plan would reduce environmental requirements for infrastructure projects


    President Trump speaks at an infrastructure meeting with mayors and governors at the White House in June. (Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post)
    By Juliet Eilperin and Michael Laris January 26 at 5:40 PM

    The White House has drafted a proposal to scale back environmental requirements in an effort to make it easier to construct roads, bridges and pipelines across the country as part of an infrastructure plan that President Trump could release as soon as next week, according to a document obtained by The Washington Post.

    The plan would change things such as how officials decide a pipeline route, how a proposed border wall with Mexico would be built and whether the National Park Service could object to a development that would impair tourists’ views from scenic parks such as the Grand Canyon.

    Administration officials — who have briefed GOP lawmakers, multiple trade associations and other groups about their plans — have emphasized they are willing to alter elements of the legislative package to win enough votes to pass it in the Senate. But they have made it clear they are seeking to make the most sweeping changes in decades to how the federal government approves and oversees infrastructure projects.

    “We have no intention of eroding environmental protections,” said Alex Hergott, associate director of infrastructure at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, when he addressed the Transportation Research Board’s annual conference earlier this month. “However, there is no denying that there is duplication and redundancy in the process that is worth taking a hard look at.”

    A White House official on Friday described the document as an earlier “discussion draft.” But individuals familiar with the plan said many of the proposals are still the basis for negotiations with lawmakers.

    “Smarter regulation doesn’t mean that we are abandoning our responsibility to the environment,” said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss ongoing internal deliberations.

    Trump identified an infrastructure bill as a top priority for his first 100 days in office, but it was delayed while he focused on bruising legislative battles over health care and tax cuts. Aides say the president will pitch his plan during next week’s State of the Union address and flesh out the details shortly afterward.

    Critics of the administration said the proposal, outlined in the document, would gut key environmental protections enshrined in laws dating back to the 1970s, such as the National Environmental Policy Act, the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act.

    “The administration’s legislative outline for infrastructure sacrifices clean air, water, the expertise of career agency staff and bedrock environmental laws,” National Parks Conservation Association President and CEO Theresa Pierno said in an email. “In short, the proposal reveals that this administration is not serious about restoring America’s infrastructure.”

    Trump has argued that voluminous environmental studies should be pared down to “a few simple pages,” and he has made broad declarations about how easy and productive the world would be without complex regulations.

    Now, his allies said, the administration is crafting proposals that will convert the president’s words into actions.

    “Clearly they are trying to get these things built more quickly. That can be done while maintaining the necessary environmental protections, because a lot of what holds this up is needless, duplicative review,” said Nick Goldstein, vice president of regulatory and legal issues at the American Road & Transportation Builders Association. “From now until at least 2020, there’s going to be somebody there considering regulatory reform.”

    The White House plan identifies many aspects of the current permitting process that lead to delays, including the fact that multiple agencies often weigh in on the same permit and that the federal government lacks resources to assess projects in a timely manner. To address this, it would make major changes in the arcane procedures that lie at the heart of federal oversight.

    New limits and deadlines would be imposed on federal agencies reviewing projects, and in some cases agencies — especially the Environmental Protection Agency — could be limited in their ability to weigh in on the permitting process.

    The dozens of proposals, many esoteric, are meant to amplify each other so they pack a bigger cumulative punch. One, for instance, would make it much easier for federal agencies to declare that certain projects have no significant impact on the environment and are not required to undergo further study. Such declarations — known as “categorical exclusions” — are already widely used, easing the approval of many highway and other projects.

    The Trump proposal would allow federal agencies to piggyback on other agencies’ decisions about the kinds of projects that should be exempt from deeper environmental study to “reduce duplication and unnecessary environmental analysis.” Another would exempt any of these rulings from judicial review under the Administrative Procedure Act, a law outside groups often use to challenge regulatory rollbacks.

    It would also expand the government’s ability to have private firms pay for the environmental reviews conducted by federal officials of their own projects. Any such change would “include appropriate controls for potential conflicts-of-interest.”

    Keith Benes, an environmental consultant who played a key role in overseeing TransCanada’s permit application for the Keystone XL pipeline as a State Department attorney-adviser, said in an interview that the document highlights some significant problems in the current system. But in almost every instance, he noted, it simply eliminates a legal requirement that delays federal approval for projects.

    “It’s not, ‘Let’s streamline it or make it more effective,” Benes said. “’It’s just, ‘Let’s get rid of that.’”

    In several instances the plan limits the extent to which the EPA can weigh in or block a project from going forward. In doing so, it could allow one particularly aggressive, pro-development corner of the federal bureaucracy set a standard for the government as a whole.

    The proposal would eliminate EPA’s ability to evaluate another agency’s Environmental Impact Statement, a power which it invoked during the Obama administration’s first term to stall approval of the Keystone XL pipeline. It also aims to “eliminate duplicative oversight” by abolishing EPA’s authority to “veto” a project on the grounds that it poses too grave a risk under the Clean Water Act.

    EPA used this authority in 2014 to block construction of a massive gold and copper mine near Alaska’s Bristol Bay. Under Trump, the EPA reached a settlement with the mine’s sponsor, Pebble Limited Partnership, and is now allowing the firm to apply for federal permits.

    ...................... ran out of space. See link.


    What a foolish, people hating, planet hating man. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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