Wildfire(s) Out West

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    Judge: Teen must repay $37 million for starting wildfire along Columbia River Gorge

    http://q13fox.com/2018/05/21/judge-teen-must-repay-37-million-for-starting-wildfire-along-columbia-river-gorge/

    The headlines a little misleading ...

    From the article.."The boy can set up a payment plan, though payments can be halted after 10 years as long as he complies, completes probation and doesn't commit other crimes."

    I
    In a way, I feel a bit sorry for the kid.  Boys do dumb things.  But this was major dumb and money alone will not undo the damage.  The kid will never pay pack but a pittance of the cost of restoration.  Better than a fine would be community service hours helping replant native trees and vegetation or similar work.  And yes, that is and should be hard work.  If he is really traumatized by his actions, helping make it better again by the sweat of his brow is a better form of restitution and redemption. 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 15,165
    Judge: Teen must repay $37 million for starting wildfire along Columbia River Gorge

    http://q13fox.com/2018/05/21/judge-teen-must-repay-37-million-for-starting-wildfire-along-columbia-river-gorge/

    The headlines a little misleading ...

    From the article.."The boy can set up a payment plan, though payments can be halted after 10 years as long as he complies, completes probation and doesn't commit other crimes."

    I
    Sure, he'll just break open his piggy bank, count the coins and tally up the owed amount of money.
    What a joke.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    Judge: Teen must repay $37 million for starting wildfire along Columbia River Gorge

    http://q13fox.com/2018/05/21/judge-teen-must-repay-37-million-for-starting-wildfire-along-columbia-river-gorge/

    The headlines a little misleading ...

    From the article.."The boy can set up a payment plan, though payments can be halted after 10 years as long as he complies, completes probation and doesn't commit other crimes."

    I
    Sure, he'll just break open his piggy bank, count the coins and tally up the owed amount of money.
    What a joke.
    As long as he makes his payments, doesn't get in trouble with law, completes his community service and probation the after 10 years he can ask the courts to vacate him having to pay restitution.  However, why would having him pay even a nominal amount, say maybe 50-100 month after the 10 years  until retirement be bad thing?  I get that kids do stupid things.  But this was beyond stupid and irresponsible...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    Police believe they know who started wildfire that made it rain ash in Oregon: Giggling teens

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/09/06/police-think-they-know-who-started-wildfire-that-made-it-rain-ash-in-oregon-giggling-teens/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.dcc7aa2835b3

    Ans if you feel sorry for these delinquent read the above article...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,687
    Judge: Teen must repay $37 million for starting wildfire along Columbia River Gorge

    http://q13fox.com/2018/05/21/judge-teen-must-repay-37-million-for-starting-wildfire-along-columbia-river-gorge/

    The headlines a little misleading ...

    From the article.."The boy can set up a payment plan, though payments can be halted after 10 years as long as he complies, completes probation and doesn't commit other crimes."

    I
    Sure, he'll just break open his piggy bank, count the coins and tally up the owed amount of money.
    What a joke.
    As long as he makes his payments, doesn't get in trouble with law, completes his community service and probation the after 10 years he can ask the courts to vacate him having to pay restitution.  However, why would having him pay even a nominal amount, say maybe 50-100 month after the 10 years  until retirement be bad thing?  I get that kids do stupid things.  But this was beyond stupid and irresponsible...
    I personally just don't see the point of the payments. I don't know how much these payments are supposed to be, but whatever they are, they could simply lead to barrier for this idiot's "enlightenment". Like, what if he want to to go to college? Will these payments act as a barrier to that, just because they'll cause him to be unable to pay tuition, or what? I absolutely think he needs to do something - a LOT - in reparation, but doing with money just doesn't that much sense to me.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    PJ_Soul said:
    Judge: Teen must repay $37 million for starting wildfire along Columbia River Gorge

    http://q13fox.com/2018/05/21/judge-teen-must-repay-37-million-for-starting-wildfire-along-columbia-river-gorge/

    The headlines a little misleading ...

    From the article.."The boy can set up a payment plan, though payments can be halted after 10 years as long as he complies, completes probation and doesn't commit other crimes."

    I
    Sure, he'll just break open his piggy bank, count the coins and tally up the owed amount of money.
    What a joke.
    As long as he makes his payments, doesn't get in trouble with law, completes his community service and probation the after 10 years he can ask the courts to vacate him having to pay restitution.  However, why would having him pay even a nominal amount, say maybe 50-100 month after the 10 years  until retirement be bad thing?  I get that kids do stupid things.  But this was beyond stupid and irresponsible...
    I personally just don't see the point of the payments. I don't know how much these payments are supposed to be, but whatever they are, they could simply lead to barrier for this idiot's "enlightenment". Like, what if he want to to go to college? Will these payments act as a barrier to that, just because they'll cause him to be unable to pay tuition, or what? I absolutely think he needs to do something - a LOT - in reparation, but doing with money just doesn't that much sense to me.
    I'm pretty sure the delinquent could handle $50-$100/month as I said...he'll just have to do what others do, get job and accept responsibility.

    I don't feel sorry for his punishment.  This kid ran away and tried to play dumb (which maybe he wasn't playing) when confronted by hikers...

    No pity from me...

    The only questions left unanswered for me are?  I thought fireworks could only be sold to someone over 18 and if thats the case, where did they get the fireworks from?  
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,687
    PJ_Soul said:
    Judge: Teen must repay $37 million for starting wildfire along Columbia River Gorge

    http://q13fox.com/2018/05/21/judge-teen-must-repay-37-million-for-starting-wildfire-along-columbia-river-gorge/

    The headlines a little misleading ...

    From the article.."The boy can set up a payment plan, though payments can be halted after 10 years as long as he complies, completes probation and doesn't commit other crimes."

    I
    Sure, he'll just break open his piggy bank, count the coins and tally up the owed amount of money.
    What a joke.
    As long as he makes his payments, doesn't get in trouble with law, completes his community service and probation the after 10 years he can ask the courts to vacate him having to pay restitution.  However, why would having him pay even a nominal amount, say maybe 50-100 month after the 10 years  until retirement be bad thing?  I get that kids do stupid things.  But this was beyond stupid and irresponsible...
    I personally just don't see the point of the payments. I don't know how much these payments are supposed to be, but whatever they are, they could simply lead to barrier for this idiot's "enlightenment". Like, what if he want to to go to college? Will these payments act as a barrier to that, just because they'll cause him to be unable to pay tuition, or what? I absolutely think he needs to do something - a LOT - in reparation, but doing with money just doesn't that much sense to me.
    I'm pretty sure the delinquent could handle $50-$100/month as I said...he'll just have to do what others do, get job and accept responsibility.

    I don't feel sorry for his punishment.  This kid ran away and tried to play dumb (which maybe he wasn't playing) when confronted by hikers...

    No pity from me...

    The only questions left unanswered for me are?  I thought fireworks could only be sold to someone over 18 and if thats the case, where did they get the fireworks from?  
    I expressed no pity and never said I felt sorry for his punishment, if that's what you were thinking. My whole point is that I don't see the point of the payments. It isn't useful in anyway, so why? It's counterproductive IMO, which has nothing to do with feelings. And where did you get that $50 - $100 number btw? The amount of the payments that will be required have not been reported as far as I know.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Judge: Teen must repay $37 million for starting wildfire along Columbia River Gorge

    http://q13fox.com/2018/05/21/judge-teen-must-repay-37-million-for-starting-wildfire-along-columbia-river-gorge/

    The headlines a little misleading ...

    From the article.."The boy can set up a payment plan, though payments can be halted after 10 years as long as he complies, completes probation and doesn't commit other crimes."

    I
    Sure, he'll just break open his piggy bank, count the coins and tally up the owed amount of money.
    What a joke.
    As long as he makes his payments, doesn't get in trouble with law, completes his community service and probation the after 10 years he can ask the courts to vacate him having to pay restitution.  However, why would having him pay even a nominal amount, say maybe 50-100 month after the 10 years  until retirement be bad thing?  I get that kids do stupid things.  But this was beyond stupid and irresponsible...
    I personally just don't see the point of the payments. I don't know how much these payments are supposed to be, but whatever they are, they could simply lead to barrier for this idiot's "enlightenment". Like, what if he want to to go to college? Will these payments act as a barrier to that, just because they'll cause him to be unable to pay tuition, or what? I absolutely think he needs to do something - a LOT - in reparation, but doing with money just doesn't that much sense to me.
    I'm pretty sure the delinquent could handle $50-$100/month as I said...he'll just have to do what others do, get job and accept responsibility.

    I don't feel sorry for his punishment.  This kid ran away and tried to play dumb (which maybe he wasn't playing) when confronted by hikers...

    No pity from me...

    The only questions left unanswered for me are?  I thought fireworks could only be sold to someone over 18 and if thats the case, where did they get the fireworks from?  
    I expressed no pity and never said I felt sorry for his punishment, if that's what you were thinking. My whole point is that I don't see the point of the payments. It isn't useful in anyway, so why? It's counterproductive IMO, which has nothing to do with feelings. And where did you get that $50 - $100 number btw? The amount of the payments that will be required have not been reported as far as I know.
    I did express a very little bit of pity because I was a boy and I know boys do dumb things.  My best friend in 5th grad and I played soccer in the boys room and broke a window that was high up on the wall.  We had to pay for it.  The price fit the crime, so-to-speak.

    But my pity for this kind of action is very limited because it was a much more grievous affront.  I agree that payments of any sort a kid will be able to come up with (or even most adults) would be a pittance considering the damage done.  That's why I suggested the penalty should be work- the hard work of planting trees, clearing debris, helping rebuild.  I believe that's the only just punishment.  
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    This fucking kid is not a victim ... the victims are, the trees destroyed, the vegetation destroyed, the animals habitat and lives that were destroyed ... not to mention the taking away of the enjoyment of the area for years to come by outdoor enthusiasts.  

    I could care a less about this delinquent's college fund...

    The appropriate punishment would be working for the park service replanting trees 10 hours a 6 days a week for a good long time...
    This delinquent and his friends know why they did...they had opportunity to come forward to minimize the damage. 

    The kid was 15 at the time ... old enough to know right from wrong....
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,687
    This fucking kid is not a victim ... the victims are, the trees destroyed, the vegetation destroyed, the animals habitat and lives that were destroyed ... not to mention the taking away of the enjoyment of the area for years to come by outdoor enthusiasts.  

    I could care a less about this delinquent's college fund...

    The appropriate punishment would be working for the park service replanting trees 10 hours a 6 days a week for a good long time...
    This delinquent and his friends know why they did...they had opportunity to come forward to minimize the damage. 

    The kid was 15 at the time ... old enough to know right from wrong....
    Did anyone say this kid was a victim? I must have missed that post.

    I agree that lots and lots of community service would be the best sentence - the payments he's being forced to make do no good whatsoever, and a punishment that does no good is a stupid punishment.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    edited June 2018
    It's only June and already it's started out here.  Gonna be a long summer.  :frowning:

    Pawnee Fire:  8,200+ acres, 0 % containment, 12 structures lost so far.  Lots of evacuations. 




    Post edited by brianlux on
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    Brian.  Is it shaping up to be a bad wildfire season out your way?  Got to give the brave men and woman who fight these wildfires so much credit.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    Brian.  Is it shaping up to be a bad wildfire season out your way?  Got to give the brave men and woman who fight these wildfires so much credit.
    It's too early to tell but this Pawnee fire came on early and strong.  Plus, the worst part of our fire season is August trhough September or October.  Things are getting rather dry here already and we usually don't get any rain between end of may and September or even October.   Most of California is semi-arid to arid.   In fact, scientists say the 20th century was unusually wet here and that long, extended droughts could be coming again.  And yet people seem to flock here by the droves.  Just down the hill from us, 10,000 new homes are being built in Folsom.  This is insanity profound.

    As for our firefighters, oh, you bet!  Much respect for our firefighters! 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    Brian.  Is it shaping up to be a bad wildfire season out your way?  Got to give the brave men and woman who fight these wildfires so much credit.
    It's too early to tell but this Pawnee fire came on early and strong.  Plus, the worst part of our fire season is August trhough September or October.  Things are getting rather dry here already and we usually don't get any rain between end of may and September or even October.   Most of California is semi-arid to arid.   In fact, scientists say the 20th century was unusually wet here and that long, extended droughts could be coming again.  And yet people seem to flock here by the droves.  Just down the hill from us, 10,000 new homes are being built in Folsom.  This is insanity profound.

    As for our firefighters, oh, you bet!  Much respect for our firefighters! 
    10000 homes?  Is that correct?  That's a small town.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,687
    edited June 2018
    brianlux said:
    Brian.  Is it shaping up to be a bad wildfire season out your way?  Got to give the brave men and woman who fight these wildfires so much credit.
    It's too early to tell but this Pawnee fire came on early and strong.  Plus, the worst part of our fire season is August trhough September or October.  Things are getting rather dry here already and we usually don't get any rain between end of may and September or even October.   Most of California is semi-arid to arid.   In fact, scientists say the 20th century was unusually wet here and that long, extended droughts could be coming again.  And yet people seem to flock here by the droves.  Just down the hill from us, 10,000 new homes are being built in Folsom.  This is insanity profound.

    As for our firefighters, oh, you bet!  Much respect for our firefighters! 
    You got that right. All those idiots will live to regret it, when they discover there is no water coming out of their taps, or that what does come out is breaking the bank, and/or when they can't really be outside because the heat has become intolerable (as is already happening in Arizona and parts of the Middle East). Same with the fools who keep building beachfront condos down in Miami and surrounding areas, lol. Have fun underwater, suckers!
    I fully expect to see a great migration out of Southern California in my lifetime TBH. Everyone up North better get ready for that - buy cheap northern property now! Alaska will be looking really good in about 30 years.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    brianlux said:
    Brian.  Is it shaping up to be a bad wildfire season out your way?  Got to give the brave men and woman who fight these wildfires so much credit.
    It's too early to tell but this Pawnee fire came on early and strong.  Plus, the worst part of our fire season is August trhough September or October.  Things are getting rather dry here already and we usually don't get any rain between end of may and September or even October.   Most of California is semi-arid to arid.   In fact, scientists say the 20th century was unusually wet here and that long, extended droughts could be coming again.  And yet people seem to flock here by the droves.  Just down the hill from us, 10,000 new homes are being built in Folsom.  This is insanity profound.

    As for our firefighters, oh, you bet!  Much respect for our firefighters! 
    10000 homes?  Is that correct?  That's a small town.
    That is absolutely correct.  Folsom is adding 10,000 new home.  I saw the developer talking on the news a while back.  He confirmed the number, talked about how great this was going to be for this area and said there would be plenty of water.  BULLSHIT!  We are in an area prone  to drought.  The traffic is already gotten way worse.  California is getting a major ream job by developers who don't give one single shit about environment, stable communities, reasonable impact.  Developers are a special breed of evil people.

    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    Brian.  Is it shaping up to be a bad wildfire season out your way?  Got to give the brave men and woman who fight these wildfires so much credit.
    It's too early to tell but this Pawnee fire came on early and strong.  Plus, the worst part of our fire season is August trhough September or October.  Things are getting rather dry here already and we usually don't get any rain between end of may and September or even October.   Most of California is semi-arid to arid.   In fact, scientists say the 20th century was unusually wet here and that long, extended droughts could be coming again.  And yet people seem to flock here by the droves.  Just down the hill from us, 10,000 new homes are being built in Folsom.  This is insanity profound.

    As for our firefighters, oh, you bet!  Much respect for our firefighters! 
    You got that right. All those idiots will live to regret it, when they discover there is no water coming out of their taps, or that what does come out is breaking the bank, and/or when they can't really be outside because the heat has become intolerable (as is already happening in Arizona and parts of the Middle East). Same with the fools who keep building beachfront condos down in Miami and surrounding areas, lol. Have fun underwater, suckers!
    I fully expect to see a great migration out of Southern California in my lifetime TBH. Everyone up North better get ready for that - buy cheap northern property now! Alaska will be looking really good in about 30 years.
    I think this is all 100% correct.  I fell sorry for anyone under 30 (maybe even 40).  This kids are going to be scrambling to find a livable situation.  People making lots of babies and developers who cater to them are creating a future that, in many places, will be very bleak.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    The county fire is BIG!  A friend (whose knowledge I trust told) told me that California has experienced 1/2 of the total amount of fire we had all last year... and we're just at the beginning of the worst months of fire season.  I'm also told that, technically speaking, fire season in California is now considered year-round.

    Here's what the 88,000 County Fire looks like and then a comparison map (NO, SAN FRANCISCO IS NOT ON FIRE)  showing how big it is relative to the Bay Area:


    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    The county fire is BIG!  A friend (whose knowledge I trust told) told me that California has experienced 1/2 of the total amount of fire we had all last year... and we're just at the beginning of the worst months of fire season.  I'm also told that, technically speaking, fire season in California is now considered year-round.

    Here's what the 88,000 County Fire looks like and then a comparison map (NO, SAN FRANCISCO IS NOT ON FIRE)  showing how big it is relative to the Bay Area:


    No idea what the solution is ... but over population has to a major concern in California...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    With the fires and the need to continue urban sprawl to accommodate the over population California may someday have no forest left ... now that will be depressing.  I live in Southern Ontario ... Not a lot of forest here thanks to farming and greenhouses...pretty boring where I live.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    With the fires and the need to continue urban sprawl to accommodate the over population California may someday have no forest left ... now that will be depressing.  I live in Southern Ontario ... Not a lot of forest here thanks to farming and greenhouses...pretty boring where I live.
    There's some very strange insanity going on in this state.  Just down in the hill from us in Folsom, 10,000 new homes are being built at the base of the Sierra Foothills. an area that is often quite dry in a state that is prone to drought.  Everybody wants to move here but the fact is, the place has already been loved to death.  Even John Steinbeck, as far back as about 60 years ago, left his home state of California because he couldn't stand the ruin that was happening here.  Robinson Jeffers rued the influx of people into the greater Monterey area where he live... clear back in the 1930's!  It's a hard thing to watch. 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 10,739
    Massive Ontario forest fire sparked by wind farm construction during extreme fire ban, workers

    allegehttps://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontario-forest-fire-wind-farm-construction-1.4758864

    Been a dry summer in Ontario.  Lots of wildfires.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    Massive Ontario forest fire sparked by wind farm construction during extreme fire ban, workers

    allegehttps://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontario-forest-fire-wind-farm-construction-1.4758864

    Been a dry summer in Ontario.  Lots of wildfires.
    Bummer, sorry to hear that!
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • We had a hillside go up a few weeks back. 

    Some welder was welding outside on grasslands without a water line. He put a sheet of plywood up to stop sparks. Of course, this was moronic and the hillside went up.

    There is a tree where eagles nested at the edge of the approaching fire. They had young eagles that weren't strong enough to fly. Our local fire crew worked the area and the tree to save the nest. They were successful.

    My father's place was directly across the river and we watched the entire fiasco. A couple of things to this based on my observations:

    1. A wildfire moves unbelievably fast. Within two hours the entire mountainside was in flames. 

    Firefighters cannot outrun a wildfire. I used to think they could.

    2. Airplane and helicopter pilots fighting the fires were exceptionally skilled.

    3. The community was very concerned for the eagle's nest. This might sound silly, but unless the fire got out of control- it was on native land with very few structures at risk- this was a feel good story.

    It was particularly 'feel good' for my father who is a bond with the eagles. He feeds them the suckers he catches when fishing for trout. No shit... they sit on the trees on our side of the river and squawk at him to feed them.

    Pictures to follow.
    "My brain's a good brain!"

  • "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Those pics were taken with this phone from my dad's dock house.

    In the last picture, the nest sits atop of one other dead trees directly above the tree grove.

    I'll send a twitter link to a great photo of the tree and nest mid fire.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • "My brain's a good brain!"
  • In summary... gawddamm stoopid people always gotta f**k things up for everything (people, plants, animals, habitat).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    In summary... gawddamm stoopid people always gotta f**k things up for everything (people, plants, animals, habitat).
    People sure can be DUMB!  

    How excellent that the people in the area and the fire department went to great ends to save the eaglets!  Wonderful! 
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 38,344
    We have yet another year with big fire happening outside Yosemite.  Seems to happen every year now.  The Ferguson fire west of the park is at 41,576 acres with 26% containment.  Were in a heat wave with temps in the low 100's (38 to 40 Celsius) which isn't helping matters. 


    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











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