The Confederacy - Erasing History

Go Beavers

PJPOWER said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I didn't notice this in anyone's comments.

The protesters tried taring down a Peace Monument in Atlanta.  I believe people are getting a "mob mentality" now.
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/more-charlottesville-marches-vigils-planned-for-atlanta-on-sunday/464097389

I posted it in another thread and didn't get any response...and I fully agree.  Abe Lincoln statue torched in Chicago too.  

I'll respond. Maybe the people who spray painted it didn't understand the history behind the peace monument, or had a different interpretation. 

PJPOWER

Go Beavers said:

PJPOWER said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I didn't notice this in anyone's comments.

The protesters tried taring down a Peace Monument in Atlanta.  I believe people are getting a "mob mentality" now.
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/more-charlottesville-marches-vigils-planned-for-atlanta-on-sunday/464097389

I posted it in another thread and didn't get any response...and I fully agree.  Abe Lincoln statue torched in Chicago too.  

I'll respond. Maybe the people who spray painted it didn't understand the history behind the peace monument, or had a different interpretation. 

Well that's pretty obvious...And maybe in the heated "racism" climate they just were not thinking straight.  Your comment is a nice way of saying "They didn't know wtf they were doing"

Go Beavers

PJPOWER said:

Go Beavers said:

PJPOWER said:

tempo_n_groove said:

I didn't notice this in anyone's comments.

The protesters tried taring down a Peace Monument in Atlanta.  I believe people are getting a "mob mentality" now.
http://www.11alive.com/news/local/more-charlottesville-marches-vigils-planned-for-atlanta-on-sunday/464097389

I posted it in another thread and didn't get any response...and I fully agree.  Abe Lincoln statue torched in Chicago too.  

I'll respond. Maybe the people who spray painted it didn't understand the history behind the peace monument, or had a different interpretation. 

Well that's pretty obvious...And maybe in the heated "racism" climate they just were not thinking straight.  Your comment is a nice way of saying "They didn't know wtf they were doing"

Hard to tell without being there to see the group in effect and knowing the people who did it. 

JC29856

Go Beavers said:

JC29856 said:

I'm all for opening up the slavery can of worms, why stop at the civil war, but be ready for some ugly truths.
If interested I recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Slave-Nation-Colonies-American-Revolution/dp/1402206976
In 1772, the High Court in London brought about the conditions that would end slavery in England by freeing a black slave from Virginia named Somerset. This decision began a key facet of independence.
Slave Nation is a fascinating account of the role slavery played in the drawing of the United States Constitution and in shaping the United States. At the Constitutional Convention, the South feared that the Northern states would leave the Convention over the issue of slavery. In a compromise, the Southern states agreed to slavery's prohibition north of the Ohio River, resulting in the Northwest Ordinance. This early national division would continue to escalate, eventually only reaching resolution through the Civil War.

Additional reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset_v_Stewart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamp_Act_1765

Why is it a can of worms? The topic fully relates to slavery. 

 why? you'll find yourself whitewashing 300 years of American history defending child rapists genocidal maniacs and tearing down 90% of all statues. 

Go Beavers

JC29856 said:

Go Beavers said:

JC29856 said:

I'm all for opening up the slavery can of worms, why stop at the civil war, but be ready for some ugly truths.
If interested I recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Slave-Nation-Colonies-American-Revolution/dp/1402206976
In 1772, the High Court in London brought about the conditions that would end slavery in England by freeing a black slave from Virginia named Somerset. This decision began a key facet of independence.
Slave Nation is a fascinating account of the role slavery played in the drawing of the United States Constitution and in shaping the United States. At the Constitutional Convention, the South feared that the Northern states would leave the Convention over the issue of slavery. In a compromise, the Southern states agreed to slavery's prohibition north of the Ohio River, resulting in the Northwest Ordinance. This early national division would continue to escalate, eventually only reaching resolution through the Civil War.

Additional reference:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somerset_v_Stewart
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamp_Act_1765

Why is it a can of worms? The topic fully relates to slavery. 

 why? you'll find yourself whitewashing 300 years of American history defending child rapists genocidal maniacs and tearing down 90% of all statues. 

If this was 8th grade history class you might. Not everyone is black abd white like you think. 80% if your post are based on that polarization where you think you're going to trip people up. 

brianlux

These guys got a long.  Why can't the rest of us?

"By all accounts, the famous lyrical war of words between Neil Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd was more like a spirited debate between respectful friends than an actual feud.

Young’s songs ‘Alabama’ and ‘Southern Man’ took aim at the South’s checkered race relations past, with references to slave ownership and cross burning. Skynyrd singer Ronnie Van Zant seemingly felt Young was painting too many good people with the same old, bad brush, and responded with the now famous “don’t need him around anyhow” line in 1974’s ‘Sweet Home Alabama.’ However, both repeatedly declared their respect for the other, and Young even played ‘Alabama’ in concert at least once."

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/neil-young-vs-lynyrd-skynyrd-nastiest-rock-feuds/

Go Beavers

brianlux said:

These guys got a long.  Why can't the rest of us?

"By all accounts, the famous lyrical war of words between Neil Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd was more like a spirited debate between respectful friends than an actual feud.

Young’s songs ‘Alabama’ and ‘Southern Man’ took aim at the South’s checkered race relations past, with references to slave ownership and cross burning. Skynyrd singer Ronnie Van Zant seemingly felt Young was painting too many good people with the same old, bad brush, and responded with the now famous “don’t need him around anyhow” line in 1974’s ‘Sweet Home Alabama.’ However, both repeatedly declared their respect for the other, and Young even played ‘Alabama’ in concert at least once."

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/neil-young-vs-lynyrd-skynyrd-nastiest-rock-feuds/

Maybe the 2017 version will be songs by Richard Spencer and Bernie Sanders?

brianlux

Go Beavers said:

brianlux said:

These guys got a long.  Why can't the rest of us?

"By all accounts, the famous lyrical war of words between Neil Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd was more like a spirited debate between respectful friends than an actual feud.

Young’s songs ‘Alabama’ and ‘Southern Man’ took aim at the South’s checkered race relations past, with references to slave ownership and cross burning. Skynyrd singer Ronnie Van Zant seemingly felt Young was painting too many good people with the same old, bad brush, and responded with the now famous “don’t need him around anyhow” line in 1974’s ‘Sweet Home Alabama.’ However, both repeatedly declared their respect for the other, and Young even played ‘Alabama’ in concert at least once."

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/neil-young-vs-lynyrd-skynyrd-nastiest-rock-feuds/

Maybe the 2017 version will be songs by Richard Spencer and Bernie Sanders?

LOL, that would be interesting!

Just some good well behaved debate rather than the usual goading would suffice!

Halifax2TheMax

Me, I'll wait for all the facts before I make a statement. I want the facts.
 

JC29856

Bentleyspop said:

JC29856 said:

how so? Its a statue and we lost the war

"We"?
"We lost the war"?
Says a lot about you right there

this is from a few pages back, what is this supposed to mean? I don't get it... "we" "we lost the war"
should I not refer to we if I personally didn't serve?

HughFreakingDillon

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

JC29856 said:

how so? Its a statue and we lost the war

"We"?
"We lost the war"?
Says a lot about you right there

this is from a few pages back, what is this supposed to mean? I don't get it... "we" "we lost the war"
should I not refer to we if I personally didn't serve?

uh, it obviously illustrates that you consider yourself on the confederate side. 

unless you are about to claim you meant that "everyone loses at war, hence my usage of "we"". 

dankind

https://youtu.be/_X6QqZF3J14

JC29856

HughFreakingDillon said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

JC29856 said:

how so? Its a statue and we lost the war

"We"?
"We lost the war"?
Says a lot about you right there

this is from a few pages back, what is this supposed to mean? I don't get it... "we" "we lost the war"
should I not refer to we if I personally didn't serve?

uh, it obviously illustrates that you consider yourself on the confederate side. 

unless you are about to claim you meant that "everyone loses at war, hence my usage of "we"". 

I'll wait for confirmation from bpop because that makes zero sense.

Bentleyspop

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

JC29856 said:

how so? Its a statue and we lost the war

"We"?
"We lost the war"?
Says a lot about you right there

this is from a few pages back, what is this supposed to mean? I don't get it... "we" "we lost the war"
should I not refer to we because I didn't  personally serve?

Here is your post from August 15th....

JC29856

August 15 Flag

Gtilley8 said:

» show previous quotes

That is absolutely asinine.  

how so? Its a statue and we lost the war
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
People who support the idea of the confederacy often use the term "we"

mrussel1

Enkidu said:

I'm throwing this out here - last year there was a big debate in my hometown (small town in VA) about changing the name of the high school (there's only one) from Robert E. Lee to something else.  I'm guessing the issue will come up again.

There's a city right outside Richmond called Mechanicsville.  The Middle school is Stonewall Jackson and the HS is Lee-Davis.  ridiculous. 

mrussel1

JC29856 said:

Cliffy6745 said:

mcgruff10 said:

JC29856 said:

See those candles around that statue at UVA, its pictured third, sign reads "only one side love"? That's at the feet of the statue of Thomas Jefferson, original founder, slave owner, slave trader and one who raped his property, a 12 year old black girl.

  http://www.npr.org/2017/08/17/544081108/glow-from-candlelight-vigil-in-charlottesville-lights-up-uva-campus

The short answer to your statement is that we honor Washington and Jefferson despite the fact that they owned slaves, whereas memorials to the likes of Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and Stonewall Jackson honor them because they fought for the Confederacy, a secessionist movement that had the preservation of slavery as its organizing principle.

Yes, and for the simple fact that despite flaws, Washington and Jefferson founded this country whereas Lee and Jackson fought to destroy it.

(raping 12 year old...flaw)

Was there any negotiation concessions or did the South decide to invade the North over slavery?

Yes,  it took place right after they read the part of the Constitution that details how to exit the union. 

PJ_Soul

I'll give the Confederates one thing.... they generally had way cooler names.

Enkidu

mrussel1 said:

Enkidu said:

I'm throwing this out here - last year there was a big debate in my hometown (small town in VA) about changing the name of the high school (there's only one) from Robert E. Lee to something else.  I'm guessing the issue will come up again.

There's a city right outside Richmond called Mechanicsville.  The Middle school is Stonewall Jackson and the HS is Lee-Davis.  ridiculous. 

Did I post this? I went to Stonewall Jackson Primary, Thomas Jefferson Elementary, Robert E. Lee High School.  (And UVa for college.)  My mom worked at Stuart Hall (as in Jeb Stuart), a private girls school.  

There's this, too.  http://www.stonewallbrigadeband.com  

PJ_Soul

That really is pretty fucked up that the leaders of the side that fought hard to keep slavery and lost (and whose members generally continued to fight to keep slavery for years after the war) are honoured the way they are in the South. It's gross.

JC29856

Bentleyspop said:

JC29856 said:

Bentleyspop said:

JC29856 said:

how so? Its a statue and we lost the war

"We"?
"We lost the war"?
Says a lot about you right there

this is from a few pages back, what is this supposed to mean? I don't get it... "we" "we lost the war"
should I not refer to we because I didn't  personally serve?

Here is your post from August 15th....

JC29856

August 15 Flag

Gtilley8 said:

» show previous quotes

That is absolutely asinine.  

how so? Its a statue and we lost the war
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
People who support the idea of the confederacy often use the term "we"

duh, stupid me. I couldn't put the two together. now I get what HFD meant in his reply. anyway the context of the conversation was about erecting statues from the losing side of wars, its all there on the same page. someone thought it was stupid to put up statues honoring the losers I asked if the three soldiers statue (below link) was stupid, to which someone replied asinine, then it picks up above, why' it's a statue and we lost the war.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Soldiers

lazy mistake or virtual twister?